KeithL
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Post by KeithL on May 11, 2020 17:33:53 GMT -5
Interestingly....
Which, under "upgrades", said that "Dirac Live Bass Management" was "coming soon - in April 2020 - for JBL and NAD." I did see a Storm Audio logo in "a list of Dirac Live products"...
(But I did not see a "Click here to purchase the upgrade" button anywhere... )
(This was on Monday afternoon 5/11 at about 5 PM.)
I don't at all doubt that they will eventually be offering it... Any more than I doubt that we will eventually be offering it...
Many processors have DBC? I don't think that's true. On ASR, Flavio has stated that Storm Audio has it. That's one. - Rich
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on May 11, 2020 18:04:24 GMT -5
We put a lot of thought into how to integrate multiple Dirac filter choices with Manual options and multiple Speaker Presets.
And, even so, you really need to keep track of what's going on... Each of the Speaker Presets has three Dirac Live slots and a Manual slot. So, if you set the distances, those settings will be used when you select the Manual slot. However, when Dirac Live runs, it will then take its own measurements, and do its own time corrections for the filters it creates.
(I know Dirac will ignore those settings when it takes its measurements... and I don't think you can use them like trims afterwards either... although I'm not sure.) However, you have to be even more careful to keep track of things when it comes to which speakers you do and don't have... For example, before running Dirac Live from inside one of the Speaker Presets, you need to set which speakers you do and don't have IN THAT PRESET. (Remember that, in our processors, the two Speaker Presets are separate, and may contain different speakers, one could be for Atmos 7.1.4, and the other one for Stereo 2.0 .)
Then, when you run Dirac Live, it will read that information from THAT Speaker Preset in the XMC-2/RMC-1, and use it to decide what speakers to measure and create filters for. Then, when you select that set of Dirac filters later, you need to set the manual speaker settings to match those in effect when the filters were created. (If you tried to use a 2.0 channel stereo filter set with your 7.1.4 Atmos speaker configuration, or vice versa, the results would be somewhat odd.)
That's why we made a point of suggesting that, when you create your Dirac filters, you mention what speaker setup they go with in the name you use for each. KeithL , another question. As I read the new Dirac manual released today, I see that Distance is still in the menu structure and before Dirac. In looking simply at the menu, it would appear you guys have Dirac strictly under Equalization. If part of the Dirac magic is to manipulate the time domain, how does all this jive? It would seem that Dirac would want to be in control of the time domain and that we should not be setting that ourselves. Maybe this is referenced in the PDF and I haven't gotten that far yet. Edit: I've been reading a lot on other forums regarding the DBC implementation on other processors. It appears that Dirac Live and DBC will both "adjust" the time domain regardless. I gathered that most are setting the distance to zero and letting Dirac set what it likes. Otherwise, it sets a value in relation to what you have already set on the processor. KeithL it seems like you put a lot of thought into how to use the existing speaker preset framework instead of logically adding Dirac presets as additional speaker presets. In other words if you would have just added speaker preset 3 - speaker preset 8, and dedicate the last 6 for Dirac, we wouldn’t have to “remember” our speaker selection for a Dirac setting. I’m sure you guys had a good reason to make it this convoluted and a lot of thought was to make it work with the least amount of changes needed (it’s understandable from a priority perspective).
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Post by megash0n on May 11, 2020 18:25:15 GMT -5
Many have it in production now with other processors. I have no doubt Emotiva will get it going once they receive the code from Dirac and everything meets certification, etc. Many processors have DBC? I don't think that's true. 3 - 5 have it now and about that many more coming any day now. I believe most of them all use the same or similar DSP though.
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Post by megash0n on May 11, 2020 18:33:57 GMT -5
Interestingly....
Which, under "upgrades", said that "Dirac Live Bass Management" was "coming soon - in April 2020 - for JBL and NAD." I did see a Storm Audio logo in "a list of Dirac Live products"...
(But I did not see a "Click here to purchase the upgrade" button anywhere... )
(This was on Monday afternoon 5/11 at about 5 PM.)
I don't at all doubt that they will eventually be offering it... Any more than I doubt that we will eventually be offering it...
On ASR, Flavio has stated that Storm Audio has it. That's one. - Rich Here are two links. www.avforums.com/threads/news-stormaudio-adds-dirac-live-bass-control-support-in-update.2285491/www.avforums.com/threads/dirac-live-with-bass-control.2284463/( This link has different people, with different processors using and comparing to REW, etc)
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Post by megash0n on May 11, 2020 18:35:14 GMT -5
We put a lot of thought into how to integrate multiple Dirac filter choices with Manual options and multiple Speaker Presets.
And, even so, you really need to keep track of what's going on...
Each of the Speaker Presets has three Dirac Live slots and a Manual slot. So, if you set the distances, those settings will be used when you select the Manual slot. However, when Dirac Live runs, it will then take its own measurements, and do its own time corrections for the filters it creates.
(I know Dirac will ignore those settings when it takes its measurements... and I don't think you can use them like trims afterwards either... although I'm not sure.)
However, you have to be even more careful to keep track of things when it comes to which speakers you do and don't have... For example, before running Dirac Live from inside one of the Speaker Presets, you need to set which speakers you do and don't have IN THAT PRESET. (Remember that, in our processors, the two Speaker Presets are separate, and may contain different speakers, one could be for Atmos 7.1.4, and the other one for Stereo 2.0 .)
Then, when you run Dirac Live, it will read that information from THAT Speaker Preset in the XMC-2/RMC-1, and use it to decide what speakers to measure and create filters for. Then, when you select that set of Dirac filters later, you need to set the manual speaker settings to match those in effect when the filters were created. (If you tried to use a 2.0 channel stereo filter set with your 7.1.4 Atmos speaker configuration, or vice versa, the results would be somewhat odd.)
That's why we made a point of suggesting that, when you create your Dirac filters, you mention what speaker setup they go with in the name you use for each. KeithL , another question. As I read the new Dirac manual released today, I see that Distance is still in the menu structure and before Dirac. In looking simply at the menu, it would appear you guys have Dirac strictly under Equalization. If part of the Dirac magic is to manipulate the time domain, how does all this jive? It would seem that Dirac would want to be in control of the time domain and that we should not be setting that ourselves. Maybe this is referenced in the PDF and I haven't gotten that far yet. Edit: I've been reading a lot on other forums regarding the DBC implementation on other processors. It appears that Dirac Live and DBC will both "adjust" the time domain regardless. I gathered that most are setting the distance to zero and letting Dirac set what it likes. Otherwise, it sets a value in relation to what you have already set on the processor. Makes sense. I'll probably zero all my settings out to be safe.
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Post by marcl on May 12, 2020 8:47:37 GMT -5
This implementation makes a lot of sense. I don't happen to use different speaker configurations for different things - nor different response curves - but I know many people do and this is a great way to give flexibility with minimal effort in switching configurations.
As some posts infer, menu system diagrams have led some to mistake them for signal flow. It makes sense now (Thanks Keith!) how the diagrams show the storage of configurations. It would be helpful to see an actual signal flow diagram. The order in which processing happens has a direct effect on how we might configure crossovers and filters. Maybe the main thing is to confirm that Bass Management always happens before Manual PEQ or Dirac filters.
Another question related to this regards the interaction of crossover frequency selection and phase/distance. Dirac (without DBC) will measure each channel individually, including each separately connected sub, and implement the mixed-phase filters to best correct the amplitude and impulse response of each speaker independently and without regard to the others. After Bass Management is applied and then Dirac filters are applied to each speaker separately, are the subs and each of the Small speakers still in phase at the crossover frequency? If not, a manual tweak to the sub delay could possibly fix this ... but that is not possible when using Dirac.
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drh
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Post by drh on May 13, 2020 14:16:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the explanation Keith. Will Dirac set the speaker levels in the first place too? If I select a Dirac slot the distance settings will be ignored? How about the speaker levels? Or can I change the levels after doing a Dirac measurement/ For example can I set the center speaker level a little higher?
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Post by bluescale on May 13, 2020 16:33:12 GMT -5
Thanks for the explanation Keith. Will Dirac set the speaker levels in the first place too? If I select a Dirac slot the distance settings will be ignored? How about the speaker levels? Or can I change the levels after doing a Dirac measurement/ For example can I set the center speaker level a little higher? In Dirac 1.0, it would set speaker level, but this level could be changed after the fact. Since Dirac 2.0 uses the same underlying engine, I assume it works the same way.
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Post by SOWK on May 13, 2020 17:42:38 GMT -5
So here is a question....
Lonnie Hair Nick KeithL
How is Dirac on the RMC-1 going to handle multiple sub outputs? (3 in my case)
With manual PEQ, I can change the distance on the three outputs independently so they all become time aligned before I apply PEQ.
Will Dirac Live 2.0 see thee subs channels? or see it only as 1? a. If it sees it as three outputs - Will it time align all three together before EQ and then EQ them as a combined single output? Or Will it measure each independently and EQ each separately? b. If it sees it as a single output - Can we time align the subs with distance first before we run Dirac? Or will it ignore the distance settings altogether, and try to EQ the subs with no time alignment to each other? (Incorrect calibration as a result)
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sylex
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Post by sylex on May 14, 2020 2:59:14 GMT -5
On the remote, there is a Preset button. But no Filter button. How to toggle between the 3 + 1 filters, in the selected Preset ?
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Post by megash0n on May 14, 2020 7:04:09 GMT -5
On the remote, there is a Preset button. But no Filter button. How to toggle between the 3 + 1 filters, in the selected Preset ? You'll have a default filter per preset.
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sylex
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Post by sylex on May 14, 2020 7:41:19 GMT -5
Yes, but we will have 3 Dirac + 1 manual filters in each Preset. So, how to toggle between the filters, staying in the same preset.
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richb
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Post by richb on May 14, 2020 7:54:28 GMT -5
Yes, but we will have 3 Dirac + 1 manual filters in each Preset. So, how to toggle between the filters, staying in the same preset. Perhaps discrete code to select each one could be implemented. - Rich
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geebo
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Post by geebo on May 14, 2020 7:55:08 GMT -5
Yes, but we will have 3 Dirac + 1 manual filters in each Preset. So, how to toggle between the filters, staying in the same preset. Use the menu.
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on May 14, 2020 9:35:09 GMT -5
So here is a question.... Lonnie Hair Nick KeithL How is Dirac on the RMC-1 going to handle multiple sub outputs? (3 in my case) With manual PEQ, I can change the distance on the three outputs independently so they all become time aligned before I apply PEQ. Will Dirac Live 2.0 see thee subs channels? or see it only as 1? a. If it sees it as three outputs - Will it time align all three together before EQ and then EQ them as a combined single output? Or Will it measure each independently and EQ each separately? b. If it sees it as a single output - Can we time align the subs with distance first before we run Dirac? Or will it ignore the distance settings altogether, and try to EQ the subs with no time alignment to each other? (Incorrect calibration as a result) Dirac will test each sub independently. Set the time delay and EQ as needed for the channel. lonnie
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geebo
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Post by geebo on May 14, 2020 15:39:52 GMT -5
Will Dirac 1 target curves work with Dirac 2?
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Post by krauley on May 14, 2020 18:09:55 GMT -5
This may not be the best place to put this but it is the most active Dirac thread. I like many others have an account for Dirac 1.0. Will i need that account to register and use Dirac 2.0 once i get my Xmc-2? Or will we be required to create a new account? Im about to install a new SSD drive in my laptop and or course that comes with a re-installation of windows and other software. I will be lightening the load so to speak of software i no longer use so if i no longer need my dirac 1.0 and its connected account i would like to skip installing it and just wait for the 2.0 program once it lands.
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Post by ttocs on May 14, 2020 20:59:31 GMT -5
This may not be the best place to put this but it is the most active Dirac thread. I like many others have an account for Dirac 1.0. Will i need that account to register and use Dirac 2.0 once i get my Xmc-2? Or will we be required to create a new account? Im about to install a new SSD drive in my laptop and or course that comes with a re-installation of windows and other software. I will be lightening the load so to speak of software i no longer use so if i no longer need my dirac 1.0 and its connected account i would like to skip installing it and just wait for the 2.0 program once it lands. Dirac Live for XMC-1 is a whole 'nuther world from the XMC-2 and its offerings. So, no you will not need anything related to the XMC-1 for anything related to the XMC-2, they are totally separate. I too had an XMC-1 and purchased Dirac Live Full. Dirac Live Full has no meaning anymore since I no longer have the XMC-1. It'a an application without a piece of hardware. Once Dirac for XMC-2 is available it'll have all its own installation/registration. Fresh as a summer's eve.
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Post by AudioHTIT on May 14, 2020 22:27:59 GMT -5
Yes, but we will have 3 Dirac + 1 manual filters in each Preset. So, how to toggle between the filters, staying in the same preset. Perhaps discrete code to select each one could be implemented. - Rich There’s one discrete remote code left that’s not being used (the ‘Dirac’ code), I wish they’d figure a way to give us access to one more preset/option with that. (not a 3rd preset, but a direct selection of one of the existing combinations)
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Post by saarg on May 15, 2020 5:03:45 GMT -5
I have a Storm ISP and it has Bass Control. Works great integrating all 5 sub, 3 in front and 2 in the back.
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