Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 15, 2020 16:54:21 GMT -5
These amps have been out for a while and appear to be powerful as well as being fully balanced but doesn’t seem like there are too many reviews out there.
I have 3 of my best speakers on my L/C/R and am trying to find a fully balanced 3 channel amp since my XMC2 is also fully balanced on LCR channels.
Any thoughts on the DR3? It seems like a good option but I have always been in favor of linear amps and don’t value the lightness of a power amp. I value quality and great sound.
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Post by routlaw on Apr 15, 2020 17:33:27 GMT -5
This has become a very contentious question around here, but will share my thoughts.
I have the DR3 which is used C, SR, SL channels and use DR-1's for my LF and RF channels. The system is a a mere 5.5 setup but I have no interest in changing to more channels at this point in my life. In a word all of them are awesome. My speakers are all Genesis, and difficult loads to drive.
Had an XPA-3 and two XPA-1's previously. Well I still have the XPA-1's which are on loan to a friend. Given your stated predisposition on amp designs my guess is you would not like them, whether its warranted or not. For me, I have no regrets at this point, love them, and would not care to ever have a linear power supply again especially for amps.
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Post by davidl81 on Apr 15, 2020 20:46:26 GMT -5
These amps have been out for a while and appear to be powerful as well as being fully balanced but doesn’t seem like there are too many reviews out there. I have 3 of my best speakers on my L/C/R and am trying to find a fully balanced 3 channel amp since my XMC2 is also fully balanced on LCR channels. Any thoughts on the DR3? It seems like a good option but I have always been in favor of linear amps and don’t value the lightness of a power amp. I value quality and great sound. I have the DR-2 and I am really happy with it. It replaced an XPA-2 G2. At first I didn’t really notice much of a difference, but once I replaced my Marantz 8802 with the RMC-1 my Mirage OMD-28s came to life. I have no idea how the XPA-2 would have sounded with the RMC, but the DR-2 is lights out amazing. Very powerful, impactful bass and absolutely dead quite. |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 15, 2020 21:01:36 GMT -5
This has become a very contentious question around here, but will share my thoughts. I have the DR3 which is used C, SR, SL channels and use DR-1's for my LF and RF channels. The system is a a mere 5.5 setup but I have no interest in changing to more channels at this point in my life. In a word all of them are awesome. My speakers are all Genesis, and difficult loads to drive. Had an XPA-3 and two XPA-1's previously. Well I still have the XPA-1's which are on loan to a friend. Given your stated predisposition on amp designs my guess is you would not like them, whether its warranted or not. For me, I have no regrets at this point, love them, and would not care to ever have a linear power supply again especially for amps. These are the reviews I want to hear. Looks like you went all in and obviously it’s sounds pretty darn good for you. So do you feel the DR3 is clearly better than the XPA3? Look it’s not like I have amazing amps. My sherbourn 7/2100 is clearly inferior to my XPR2 and it has 2 toroidal transformers but it’s also 100 years old. It does a good job with movies but it’s totally unserviceable for 2 channel listening. So I have the most unusual configuration of having the XPR2 on my LF and Center. Having my best amp power the center channel made a huge difference in my system for movies. That’s why I was asking about the DR3. |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 16, 2020 0:14:16 GMT -5
I have the DR-2 and I am really happy with it. It replaced an XPA-2 G2. At first I didn’t really notice much of a difference, but once I replaced my Marantz 8802 with the RMC-1 my Mirage OMD-28s came to life. I have no idea how the XPA-2 would have sounded with the RMC, but the DR-2 is lights out amazing. Very powerful, impactful bass and absolutely dead quite. Thanks for your feedback. I may order the DR3 and do an "in home trial". If this works out then I'm saving some money too. |
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Post by tropicallutefisk on Apr 16, 2020 6:20:02 GMT -5
I do not own a DR3 but I do own three Dr1s that I use for L-C-R channels. These are the fourth iteration of power for my system. First was a Yamaha receiver, then there was a Rotel RMB1075 followed years later by a McIntosh MC152. These DR1s deliver much more bass, are clear and articulate and I'm really not sure what else I could expect from them. Not saying there are not other, perhaps better options, but in my Magnepan system these amps make me quite happy.
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Post by routlaw on Apr 16, 2020 11:40:50 GMT -5
These are the reviews I want to hear. Looks like you went all in and obviously it’s sounds pretty darn good for you. So do you feel the DR3 is clearly better than the XPA3? Look it’s not like I have amazing amps. My sherbourn 7/2100 is clearly inferior to my XPR2 and it has 2 toroidal transformers but it’s also 100 years old. It does a good job with movies but it’s totally unserviceable for 2 channel listening. So I have the most unusual configuration of having the XPR2 on my LF and Center. Having my best amp power the center channel made a huge difference in my system for movies. That’s why I was asking about the DR3. Yes, the system has never sounded better IMO. Absolutely the DR3 to me is most assuredly better than the XPA-3 G2 I had owned for years. These newer amps as others have stated are dead silent quiet, are effortless in their presentation and dynamics. If you want something with "colored" sound it might not be the right choice for you as I'm inclined to believe the DR series of amps are very neutral. Not that its any of my business but FWIW in the conversation I would never have set up my amps the way you have. Even if they are balanced for volume your method would still render the setup out of balance in a host of other ways. I do understand the need for a center channel that has clarity and presentation though. Hope this helps |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 16, 2020 15:06:50 GMT -5
These are the reviews I want to hear. Looks like you went all in and obviously it’s sounds pretty darn good for you. So do you feel the DR3 is clearly better than the XPA3? Look it’s not like I have amazing amps. My sherbourn 7/2100 is clearly inferior to my XPR2 and it has 2 toroidal transformers but it’s also 100 years old. It does a good job with movies but it’s totally unserviceable for 2 channel listening. So I have the most unusual configuration of having the XPR2 on my LF and Center. Having my best amp power the center channel made a huge difference in my system for movies. That’s why I was asking about the DR3. Yes, the system has never sounded better IMO. Absolutely the DR3 to me is most assuredly better than the XPA-3 G2 I had owned for years. These newer amps as others have stated are dead silent quiet, are effortless in their presentation and dynamics. If you want something with "colored" sound it might not be the right choice for you as I'm inclined to believe the DR series of amps are very neutral. Not that its any of my business but FWIW in the conversation I would never have set up my amps the way you have. Even if they are balanced for volume your method would still render the setup out of balance in a host of other ways. I do understand the need for a center channel that has clarity and presentation though. Hope this helps I agree that my amp setup which was done out of a little trial is quite unusual. If anyone has a quality amp for a center channel then they wouldn’t need to do what I need. The proof is in the movie watching experience - my system took a big step forward with me powering the center with my best amp. You would be surprised at how forgiving the surround sound setup is. It definitely helps that there are folks like you who have the DR amp setup and are very happy with them. I’m looking for neutral amps too. Definitely have no interest in any colored amps. |
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Post by tom9933 on Apr 21, 2020 17:36:46 GMT -5
I also use a DR3 for my LCR setup (Revel F208, C208) and am very happy with it. I originally fed the DR3 with the unbalanced output of a Denon 8500 and then upgraded to the RMC-1 last year. I was actually amazed at the difference in dynamics.
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 21, 2020 17:56:40 GMT -5
I also use a DR3 for my LCR setup (Revel F208, C208) and am very happy with it. I originally fed the DR3 with the unbalanced output of a Denon 8500 and then upgraded to the RMC-1 last year. I was actually amazed at the difference in dynamics. So the Denon was holding your system back? Is it more dynamic and clearer? |
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Post by davidl81 on Apr 21, 2020 19:35:00 GMT -5
I also use a DR3 for my LCR setup (Revel F208, C208) and am very happy with it. I originally fed the DR3 with the unbalanced output of a Denon 8500 and then upgraded to the RMC-1 last year. I was actually amazed at the difference in dynamics. So the Denon was holding your system back? Is it more dynamic and clearer? I know that when I went from my Marantz AV8802A to the RMC-1 my DR-2 opened up. The dynamics increased tremendously. The Marantz was always clear, but sounded thin. The RMC-1 is just a much more robust sound. I think it pairs perfectly with the DR line of amps. |
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Post by leonski on Apr 23, 2020 15:19:34 GMT -5
These amps have been out for a while and appear to be powerful as well as being fully balanced but doesn’t seem like there are too many reviews out there. I have 3 of my best speakers on my L/C/R and am trying to find a fully balanced 3 channel amp since my XMC2 is also fully balanced on LCR channels. Any thoughts on the DR3? It seems like a good option but I have always been in favor of linear amps and don’t value the lightness of a power amp. I value quality and great sound. You REALLY intend to buy an amp based on if it's balanced or NO? |
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Post by SteveH on Apr 23, 2020 17:30:41 GMT -5
I do not own a DR3 but I do own three Dr1s that I use for L-C-R channels. These are the fourth iteration of power for my system. First was a Yamaha receiver, then there was a Rotel RMB1075 followed years later by a McIntosh MC152. These DR1s deliver much more bass, are clear and articulate and I'm really not sure what else I could expect from them. Not saying there are not other, perhaps better options, but in my Magnepan system these amps make me quite happy. I have to agree with tropical, monoblocks are the way to go, especially if truly enjoy two channel listening. I have two DR1s for my main speakers and then a Thirteen 1.6s for the center channel and all the surround/atmos channels. |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 23, 2020 18:28:31 GMT -5
These amps have been out for a while and appear to be powerful as well as being fully balanced but doesn’t seem like there are too many reviews out there. I have 3 of my best speakers on my L/C/R and am trying to find a fully balanced 3 channel amp since my XMC2 is also fully balanced on LCR channels. Any thoughts on the DR3? It seems like a good option but I have always been in favor of linear amps and don’t value the lightness of a power amp. I value quality and great sound. You REALLY intend to buy an amp based on if it's balanced or NO? Yes. I want to take advantage of my XMC2 LCR being fully balanced in mono mode. But it has to be a good amp. Fully Balanced being one of its attributes. |
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Post by leonski on Apr 23, 2020 21:22:43 GMT -5
So many 'good amps' that are not balanced as to be bewildering. Some, like my parasound are not native balanced but DO have XLR inputs as well as single ended. \
My preamp, likewise has In and out in balanced as well as I think a sub out as balanced with the remainder as single ended. I DO use the stereo balanced 'ins' from my DAC.....
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 23, 2020 23:02:53 GMT -5
So many 'good amps' that are not balanced as to be bewildering. Some, like my parasound are not native balanced but DO have XLR inputs as well as single ended. \ My preamp, likewise has In and out in balanced as well as I think a sub out as balanced with the remainder as single ended. I DO use the stereo balanced 'ins' from my DAC..... Yes, you don't have to get a balanced amp and there is nothing that says all balanced amps sound better than all non-balanced amps because it's certainly not true. And it's hard to audition.... The high-end dealers are pretty scarce. The next 2 generations will bring it to a crashing halt as none of those kids care about high end. |
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Post by leonski on Apr 23, 2020 23:59:36 GMT -5
Over the yeasr here in SoCal, I've seen several dealers go belly up. Last was down in SD where they have 6 or 7 rooms, one of 'budget' stuff along with halls stuffed with
speakers waiting for someone who wanted an audition. The Big Boys room (2 or 3 of 'em) had a very impressive array of gear, with B&W 8 series leading the speaker pack, though
Maggies including the 20's down to 12s or whatever were listenable. I once sat for an hour with a pair of 3.6 and the KRELL integrated.
Last I saw of 'em, they'd lost their lease to a Korean Church (yep) and were in a 3 room suite having a fire sale. That's when I dropped in and bought my Grado Headphones.
Too bad about High End or just BETTER audio. I sold it for a short time. People don't listen. Or hear. One guy who I helped apparently DID get it and he came back so I could
work with him some more.
Cameras are going the same way. Cell Phones have pretty much take over. DSLR and MIRRORLESS sales are down year-over-year for over 10 years now. My New Nikon is one of
the finest pieces of gear I've ever used. Even the 4k movie mode is FAR BETTER than what you get off of small dish. Lenses are $$$ but the best of 'em are built to last a LONG time.
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Post by tropicallutefisk on Apr 24, 2020 6:41:30 GMT -5
Over the yeasr here in SoCal, I've seen several dealers go belly up. Last was down in SD where they have 6 or 7 rooms, one of 'budget' stuff along with halls stuffed with speakers waiting for someone who wanted an audition. The Big Boys room (2 or 3 of 'em) had a very impressive array of gear, with B&W 8 series leading the speaker pack, though Maggies including the 20's down to 12s or whatever were listenable. I once sat for an hour with a pair of 3.6 and the KRELL integrated. Last I saw of 'em, they'd lost their lease to a Korean Church (yep) and were in a 3 room suite having a fire sale. That's when I dropped in and bought my Grado Headphones. Too bad about High End or just BETTER audio. I sold it for a short time. People don't listen. Or hear. One guy who I helped apparently DID get it and he came back so I could work with him some more. Cameras are going the same way. Cell Phones have pretty much take over. DSLR and MIRRORLESS sales are down year-over-year for over 10 years now. My New Nikon is one of the finest pieces of gear I've ever used. Even the 4k movie mode is FAR BETTER than what you get off of small dish. Lenses are $$$ but the best of 'em are built to last a LONG time. Hi End stores are definitely hurting and I think its only going to get worse. One reason is that most people just don't care how "good" something sounds. People today have short attention spans and as long whatever they are listening to has bass and is loud they're more than happy. Or, they are like my wife. She's not into loud or bass, but when she listens to music she's not doing intense listening. She doesn't care if its coming from her sonos Play1 or my Magnepan system because the quality of the sound does not enhance her listening experience. Also, when I go into a high end audio store and look at the prices even I have a hard time justifying the cost. For instance, when I listen to stereo music I'm using two DR1s that purchased for about $2400. I love how they perform and I'm totally happy with them. Are there better sounding monoblocks displayed and sold at these high end stores? I'm sure there are. But at what cost? If I wanted the equivalent McIntosh amps, I'd be forking out $14K. I do OK financially because I have a good job and no kids, but damn, that's a big difference in price. Its so big it makes even myself pause. Would I really get 5 or 6 times the performance and as well as an equal boost in enjoyment? Maybe, maybe not. Nothing wrong with someone choosing those amps. They're are rock solid and I love the McIntosh look, so I totally get the appeal and can see why people do purchase such items. Who knows maybe one day I'll justify it to myself and buy a pair of expensive monos. BUT this is just one part of a simple two channel system. Now look into a preamp. I use a $900 Schiit Freya+ which sounds amazing to me. Again, an equivalent McIntosh would be a much higher priced option. I think their least expensive tube pre is the C2700 at $8000. Now for two monoblocks and a pre we are at $22K versus $3300. By the time we add in speakers and a source I'd bet we are almost at an order of magnitude in price difference. Not saying the price difference isn't justified. Just saying its HUGE. And let's be honest how many people are even able to spend that amount on a luxury item? For that money you can buy a second vehicle, a boat, remodeling your house, etc. By the way, I don't want anyone thinking I'm picking on McIntosh. Its just I know their product line and pricing because I was once looking at going all Mc. Its truly well built and it does hold its value. My last point is that the American consumer is going to the internet for more and more of their purchases. These high end stores have huge overhead relative to an online shop. They have leases and employees to pay just to have a LOCAL show room. Plus the products themselves are not efficiently manufactured. McIntosh loves to promote the fact their products are hand built. For example they have one lady who has been winding coils for decades by hand. OK, neat story, but in today's world is that really the best route? It drives up costs that need to be passed along to the dealer and subsequently to the consumer. Sorry to ramble. I guess my ultimate point is that things change and I'm not sure local high end audio stores are going to be able to change with the times. Its sad because I used to love going to stereo shops back when I could barely afford to eat. I'd listen to the components in the listening rooms and think how great it would be to come home after work and be able to listen to such an amazing sounding system. These stores let me dream and set goals for the future. High end audio is not going away, but I think the number of brands available in these high end segments will diminish and the local audio store is on life support and may not pull through. |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 24, 2020 12:38:21 GMT -5
it’s just all too expensive. It’s no one’s fault but they aren’t going to keep developing products that have no demand.
Entry level high end these days is so much better than 20 years ago and with the laws of diminishing returns, it’s hard to justify spending so much money unless you just have money burning a hole in your pocket.
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Post by tom9933 on Apr 24, 2020 13:56:40 GMT -5
I also use a DR3 for my LCR setup (Revel F208, C208) and am very happy with it. I originally fed the DR3 with the unbalanced output of a Denon 8500 and then upgraded to the RMC-1 last year. I was actually amazed at the difference in dynamics. So the Denon was holding your system back? Is it more dynamic and clearer? When I only had the Denon I would have said no but after putting the RMC into the mix it absolutely was... The difference was enough that even my mom noticed.... Not sure about clearer but drastically more dynamic, even the songs in TV commercials sound better lol |
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