cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 16, 2021 5:34:12 GMT -5
The ONLY way to update or re-flash the firmware is by using the Setup Menu. If you are getting the HDSB82 error then you cannot get into the menu (that is the HDMI board failing to initialize). If you cannot get into the menu then there is nothing else for you to try. You can try unplugging all HDMI and Trigger cables...
(because there is a long shot that a shorted cable could prevent the unit from starting up) However, if it still doesn't boot up, even with nothing connected, then it's going to have to come in for service. My XMC-2 is being shipped back, it is only 5 months old. Are there a lot of firmware change errors or other equipment problems amongst Emotiva owners that require factory service? They also told me that the turn around time would be a month, is this also typical? A month? I’ve seen responses here on turnaround times of a week or less. There have been a few reported firmware update issues here that have required a return, but I doubt it’s a large number. I know it’s tough and easy for me to say because I have not had to return my unit, but be glad you are covered and they will take care of you. |
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Post by doc1963 on Mar 16, 2021 8:34:11 GMT -5
My XMC-2 is being shipped back, it is only 5 months old. Are there a lot of firmware change errors or other equipment problems amongst Emotiva owners that require factory service? They also told me that the turn around time would be a month, is this also typical? A month? It isn't typical, but yes, a few others have "bricked" their units while attempting to upgrade the firmware. But to be fair, so have users of other non-Emotiva branded units. I read the AVS Forum users threads of the other newer 16 channel processors (daily) and this seems to happen more frequently than you'd think. Almost all of them require a trip back to the manufacturer for repair or replacement. As for the timeframe given, do you live outside of the continental USA...? Covid-19 related issues and/or parts shortages aside, if you live within the USA, I don't think it will take a full 30 days to receive your unit back. That may have been a " CYA" guesstimate. Prior to the global pandemic, I had my Gen3 amplifier upgraded (5 > 9). That entire process took 10 days from door to door. Good luck to you...  |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Mar 16, 2021 9:07:34 GMT -5
I had a Philips DVD player/burner that was bricked by an after-warranty firmware update 13 years ago. No help from Philips. This is why I waited a loooooong time before I did the same for my out of warranty OPPO player.
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Post by aswiss on Mar 16, 2021 18:09:44 GMT -5
@ttoocs, @foggy, thanks! right, so I shall ignore dirac warning. reason I asked for the question 2, because after I did my 1st attempt of Dirac calibration. I fire up to listen some music on reference stereo and it sounded crap. lifeless flat compressed sound. but hey that's reference stereo, how can this be! If Reference Stereo sounds like crap then it may be due to your room. While Reference Stereo doesn’t sound as good as my Dirac setting, it still sounds pretty good. Dirac just sounds better. Also, $14,500 in preamp / DAC sounds better than the XMC2 in any mode. I verified this with a buddy. Hopefully Dirac / Emotiva will get the upload fixed with their latest versions. Here is oposit - in a well "done" room (with acoustic absorbers and stuff) my Ref. Stereo is all I use for music - Stereo sound like crap for me.
But to be honest, I only did 2 times measuring with Dirac, and did not spend a lot of time in fine tuning and only for Surround Sound.
It took me hours to get the surround even close to what it sounds without (exception that Bass is a bit more precise, but with no sub I don't care).
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Post by kanichkhun on Mar 16, 2021 21:31:37 GMT -5
If Reference Stereo sounds like crap then it may be due to your room. While Reference Stereo doesn’t sound as good as my Dirac setting, it still sounds pretty good. Dirac just sounds better. Also, $14,500 in preamp / DAC sounds better than the XMC2 in any mode. I verified this with a buddy. Hopefully Dirac / Emotiva will get the upload fixed with their latest versions. Here is oposit - in a well "done" room (with acoustic absorbers and stuff) my Ref. Stereo is all I use for music - Stereo sound like crap for me.
But to be honest, I only did 2 times measuring with Dirac, and did not spend a lot of time in fine tuning and only for Surround Sound.
It took me hours to get the surround even close to what it sounds without (exception that Bass is a bit more precise, but with no sub I don't care).
.
before Dirac, I like my reference stereo. after Dirac, I hate my reference stereo. it doesn't sound the same which one would expect it to run the same with or without Dirac. But it could be initial run having some problems.... after I redo Dirac 2nd time and restart. it sounds normal back again.. which I need some time to confirm and sit down and have a proper listening. |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Mar 16, 2021 22:40:04 GMT -5
If Reference Stereo sounds like crap then it may be due to your room. While Reference Stereo doesn’t sound as good as my Dirac setting, it still sounds pretty good. Dirac just sounds better. Also, $14,500 in preamp / DAC sounds better than the XMC2 in any mode. I verified this with a buddy. Hopefully Dirac / Emotiva will get the upload fixed with their latest versions. Here is oposit - in a well "done" room (with acoustic absorbers and stuff) my Ref. Stereo is all I use for music - Stereo sound like crap for me.
But to be honest, I only did 2 times measuring with Dirac, and did not spend a lot of time in fine tuning and only for Surround Sound.
It took me hours to get the surround even close to what it sounds without (exception that Bass is a bit more precise, but with no sub I don't care).
In my room, Reference Stereo sounds very good but Stereo (w Dirac 9pt) sounds better. Neither mode sounds bad. And surround sound is outstanding as well. So I’m not sure what’s going on with the other gen3 people processors, but it’s nothing but rainbows and unicorns with me. It’s kind of funny because even YouTube sounds almost too good. |
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Post by kanichkhun on Mar 16, 2021 23:06:50 GMT -5
they sound great when they're working.. hahah
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Mar 17, 2021 12:49:00 GMT -5
they sound great when they're working.. hahah That’s the interesting part. I haven’t had a time that it didn’t work. It’s like we bought the same car but mine is flawless, just need gas while others have to take it into the shop every other week. Difference is cars have moving parts - processors don’t. I actually feel a little bad in that I barely even think about the XMC2 - power, change source, volume up / down. |
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Post by kanichkhun on Mar 18, 2021 11:13:45 GMT -5
oh this is bad, after my show, decided to sit a little longer and have a critical listening for music.
so my first track, I picked one of my favorite out of phase test, Madonna - Immaculate Collection - Vogue, many tracks designed with out of phase effect.
this track is pretty heavy with out of phase and the last past of her singing, the whole part is in out of phase, so it would sound in your head or sides.
what I heard throughout the track was the out of phase has became in-phase instead which is incorrect producing already thus that led to my conclusion
reference stereo is definitely not pure at all and the low end still sound flat, seems to be following of my Dirac curve that I set instead.
I will revert the test again with preset 2 which is non-dirac.
I'm coming from marantz/denon/onkyo, the Pure mode is a straightforward one.
I really can't figure out this or what is wrong. this is definitely not equal to above pure mode that I got used to many years.
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Post by garbulky on Mar 18, 2021 12:59:07 GMT -5
oh this is bad, after my show, decided to sit a little longer and have a critical listening for music. so my first track, I picked one of my favorite out of phase test, Madonna - Immaculate Collection - Vogue, many tracks designed with out of phase effect. this track is pretty heavy with out of phase and the last past of her singing, the whole part is in out of phase, so it would sound in your head or sides. what I heard throughout the track was the out of phase has became in-phase instead which is incorrect producing already thus that led to my conclusion reference stereo is definitely not pure at all and the low end still sound flat, seems to be following of my Dirac curve that I set instead. I will revert the test again with preset 2 which is non-dirac. I'm coming from marantz/denon/onkyo, the Pure mode is a straightforward one. I really can't figure out this or what is wrong. this is definitely not equal to above pure mode that I got used to many years. Have you done a phase test on your default setup? You might have accidentally wired a speaker out of phase Search phase test on youtube to get a test sample |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 18, 2021 13:41:59 GMT -5
Dirac Live measures all speakers as if they were full range. It neither knows nor cares if the speaker is set to large or small.
The Dirac Filters are NOT applied in Reference Stereo mode. Dirac Live uses digital processing...
With an analog input signal the signal is never converted to digital at all so no digital processing. With a digital input signal the signal must still be converted into analog, but no OTHER digital processing is applied.
However LEVEL TRIMS, which are implemented in the analog domain, will still be applied.
thanks to those who replied to my enquiry. okay, so now I've set my LEFT and RIGHT speaker to large and of course DIRAC is going to me warning that the setting is incorrect as I originally measured them all in small speakers. 1) do I have to remeasure all again with my L & R set large? 2) does using Reference Stereo with DIRAC meaning this isn't pure signal output? deriving from keith's message, I'm confused by it, so the DIRAC filter would be applying to the ref. stereo as well? |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 18, 2021 13:49:52 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure you would not be able to successfully modify or replace the Linux kernel...
But I can tell you one thing for sure... If you try to modify the Linux kernel on one of our processors... you WILL void your warranty. (And you might even render yourself ineligible for full-price non-warranty service.)
And, even assuming you succeed, the next firmware update, if that still works, will probably overwrite your changes. Are you seriously suggesting "update the kernel to see it fixes.stuff"? That way lies madness. An XMC box is not a rolling Linux distro where you can update to the latest and greatest to see if it's better. It's an embedded system with integrated components for hardware and software. You have to make changes one thing at a time and with great care and regression testing. Just because it's based on a commodity kernel doesn't mean you can randomly swap stuff in and expect it to keep working. In my day job you'd be laughed out of a design meeting for suggesting that ! Well.. No need for updates when you’ve got a stable ground. But as long as the network bug exist, yes I do suggest checking out some modules and compile a new kernel. If it doesn’t do anything then fine don’t release it and use the old one. If the NIC startup code isn’t in the kernel then I agree with you.. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 18, 2021 14:00:58 GMT -5
I suspect you're misunderstanding what's going on.
Dirac Live always basically measures every speaker as if it were full range (so it won;t do anything differently depending on which you choose).. And, if you save a Dirac Filter to the processor, you can later change a speaker between Large and Small on the processor with no problems.
HOWEVER... When you run the Dirac Live software it reads the system configuration from the processor.
And, if you open a PROJECT on the computer, and it "disagrees" with the current configuration on the processor, it will complain. This will definitely happen if you've changed the number of speakers. (I'm not sure if it will happen if you've changed the setting on the processor between small and large.)
thanks to those who replied to my enquiry. okay, so now I've set my LEFT and RIGHT speaker to large and of course DIRAC is going to me warning that the setting is incorrect as I originally measured them all in small speakers. 1) do I have to remeasure all again with my L & R set large? 2) does using Reference Stereo with DIRAC meaning this isn't pure signal output? deriving from keith's message, I'm confused by it, so the DIRAC filter would be applying to the ref. stereo as well? |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 18, 2021 14:13:47 GMT -5
The purpose of Reference Stereo mode is to pass the signal without alteration of any kind. Its purpose is to pass the signal cleanly and accurately.
Therefore how good or bad it sounds will depend on the source, your speakers, your room, and anything else you have connected.
The purpose of Dirac Live is to correct or compensate for inaccuracies in your speakers, your room, and your other gear. But it still isn't going to even attempt to compensate for a bad or mediocre sounding source.
To be quite honest I have never heard another DAC or preamp at any price that I would say sounds more accurate than the DACs in the XMC-2. That's not to say that you may not prefer the sound of another one.
If you want to compare the accuracy of an analog preamp - then the thing to compare it to is one foot of wire with a connector on each end. (This is the proverbial "straight wire with gain" - only without the gain.)
Unfortunately, since we humans cannot listen to a digital signal directly, we're stuck with some sort of a DAC. (However, for the same reason, when we decide which one we like, we must then either rely on measurements or opinion.)
@ttoocs, @foggy, thanks! right, so I shall ignore dirac warning. reason I asked for the question 2, because after I did my 1st attempt of Dirac calibration. I fire up to listen some music on reference stereo and it sounded crap. lifeless flat compressed sound. but hey that's reference stereo, how can this be! If Reference Stereo sounds like crap then it may be due to your room. While Reference Stereo doesn’t sound as good as my Dirac setting, it still sounds pretty good. Dirac just sounds better. Also, $14,500 in preamp / DAC sounds better than the XMC2 in any mode. I verified this with a buddy. Hopefully Dirac / Emotiva will get the upload fixed with their latest versions. |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Mar 18, 2021 14:26:26 GMT -5
I suspect you're misunderstanding what's going on.
Dirac Live always basically measures every speaker as if it were full range (so it won;t do anything differently depending on which you choose).. And, if you save a Dirac Filter to the processor, you can later change a speaker between Large and Small on the processor with no problems.
HOWEVER... When you run the Dirac Live software it reads the system configuration from the processor.
And, if you open a PROJECT on the computer, and it "disagrees" with the current configuration on the processor, it will complain. This will definitely happen if you've changed the number of speakers. (I'm not sure if it will happen if you've changed the setting on the processor between small and large.)
thanks to those who replied to my enquiry.
okay, so now I've set my LEFT and RIGHT speaker to large and of course DIRAC is going to me warning that the setting is incorrect as I originally measured them all in small speakers.
1) do I have to remeasure all again with my L & R set large?
2) does using Reference Stereo with DIRAC meaning this isn't pure signal output? deriving from keith's message, I'm confused by it, so the DIRAC filter would be applying to the ref. stereo as well? Small or Large does not affect being able to edit a Dirac Project. Neither will a setting like Tops vs Heights within the Front or Rear Heights submenu. The only Speaker Size settings that matter are whether a specific channel is active or not. Think of it this way. Dirac only sees which of the physical outputs on the back of the processor are chosen to be active. What the internal Menu calls those physical outputs is meaningless to running Dirac. So, Front Height:: Sm Top Front is the same to Dirac as Front Height:: Lg Top Middle. "A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse" (Faces) |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 18, 2021 14:36:09 GMT -5
Quite true....
Dirac will only get really upset if it tries to measure a speaker that isn't there ...
But there is one exception on the processor side ...
Let's say you physically have 7.1 speakers ...
But you set the Speaker Preset to 5.1 and run Dirac ... And save a set of filters to the processor ... THEN change the Speaker Preset on the processor to 7.1 ... And engage Dirac on that Speaker Preset ...
You would now have 7.1 speakers playing ...
But there would be no Dirac filters for two of them ... I'm pretty sure those two speakers would still play ... but with "null filters" ...
Neither Dirac nor the processor would actually care... but it might sound quite odd.
I suspect you're misunderstanding what's going on.
Dirac Live always basically measures every speaker as if it were full range (so it won;t do anything differently depending on which you choose).. And, if you save a Dirac Filter to the processor, you can later change a speaker between Large and Small on the processor with no problems.
HOWEVER... When you run the Dirac Live software it reads the system configuration from the processor.
And, if you open a PROJECT on the computer, and it "disagrees" with the current configuration on the processor, it will complain. This will definitely happen if you've changed the number of speakers. (I'm not sure if it will happen if you've changed the setting on the processor between small and large.)
Small or Large does not affect being able to edit a Dirac Project. Neither will a setting like Tops vs Heights within the Front or Rear Heights submenu. The only Speaker Size settings that matter are whether a specific channel is active or not. Think of it this way. Dirac only sees which of the physical outputs on the back of the processor are chosen to be active. What the internal Menu calls those physical outputs is meaningless to running Dirac. So, Front Height:: Sm Top Front is the same to Dirac as Front Height:: Lg Top Middle. "A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse" (Faces) |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Mar 18, 2021 14:46:24 GMT -5
Quite true....
Dirac will only get really upset if it tries to measure a speaker that isn't there ...
But there is one exception on the processor side ...
Let's say you physically have 7.1 speakers ...
But you set the Speaker Preset to 5.1 and run Dirac ... And save a set of filters to the processor ... THEN change the Speaker Preset on the processor to 7.1 ... And engage Dirac on that Speaker Preset ...
You would now have 7.1 speakers playing ...
But there would be no Dirac filters for two of them ... I'm pretty sure those two speakers would still play ... but with "null filters" ...
Neither Dirac nor the processor would actually care... but it might sound quite odd.
Small or Large does not affect being able to edit a Dirac Project. Neither will a setting like Tops vs Heights within the Front or Rear Heights submenu. The only Speaker Size settings that matter are whether a specific channel is active or not. Think of it this way. Dirac only sees which of the physical outputs on the back of the processor are chosen to be active. What the internal Menu calls those physical outputs is meaningless to running Dirac. So, Front Height:: Sm Top Front is the same to Dirac as Front Height:: Lg Top Middle. "A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse" (Faces) Yes, that is correct. This is why it's recommended to simply run Dirac for every channel in the system, then the processor can be setup to use less speakers for specific uses, and if one wants, can setup a Preset for fewer channels. There's enough variability in how each Preset can be used based on submenu choices that I haven't felt constricted like I thought I would've been prior to actually using the XMC-2 vs the XMC-1. I definitely don't feel a need for having one Preset setup for just 5.1 vs 7.1, I let the movie decide that for me by using Direct so I watch using the original sound field. I can upmix if I want, but generally I'll use the original soundtrack. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2021 15:11:35 GMT -5
The purpose of Reference Stereo mode is to pass the signal without alteration of any kind. Its purpose is to pass the signal cleanly and accurately.
Therefore how good or bad it sounds will depend on the source, your speakers, your room, and anything else you have connected.
The purpose of Dirac Live is to correct or compensate for inaccuracies in your speakers, your room, and your other gear. But it still isn't going to even attempt to compensate for a bad or mediocre sounding source.
To be quite honest I have never heard another DAC or preamp at any price that I would say sounds more accurate than the DACs in the XMC-2. That's not to say that you may not prefer the sound of another one.
If you want to compare the accuracy of an analog preamp - then the thing to compare it to is one foot of wire with a connector on each end. (This is the proverbial "straight wire with gain" - only without the gain.)
Unfortunately, since we humans cannot listen to a digital signal directly, we're stuck with some sort of a DAC. (However, for the same reason, when we decide which one we like, we must then either rely on measurements or opinion.)
If Reference Stereo sounds like crap then it may be due to your room. While Reference Stereo doesn’t sound as good as my Dirac setting, it still sounds pretty good. Dirac just sounds better. Also, $14,500 in preamp / DAC sounds better than the XMC2 in any mode. I verified this with a buddy. Hopefully Dirac / Emotiva will get the upload fixed with their latest versions. Audio Science Review while testing the XMC-1: "Conclusions: I had high hopes for Emotiva XMC-1 seeing how it is one of few home theater products with specifications. Alas, I was not able to meet those specs even though the measurements it did produce, put it high in the home theater department. The worst failing was the linearity test showing that there is some serious signal processing error inside this unit, muting the output below -90 dB. Was this put in there to improve specs? Or downright bug and lack of testing to find the same? Even without that problem, we still can't match performance of a $99 desktop DAC even though we paid $2,500. Yes, we got more channels than 2 and have room EQ but still, I want my good performance damn it! The XMC-2 has no specifications but I have read that they plan to release Audio Precision test results. Let's keep our fingers crossed that they deliver there." - www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-emotiva-xmc-1-gen-2-pre-pro.9225/Hope the Emotiva XMC-2 is better. There's a whole chart done by ASR in which the XMC-1 couldn't even compete w/ 99 dollar DACs. The yellow is where Emotiva's XMC-1 ranks at the date of testing:  As far as accurate - in the article by ASR it was suggested that Emotiva was supposed to release certain specs. Did that ever come through into fruition? I'm not in the market for another DAC at the moment but if I should go to multi channel surround of course I'd look at whatever Emotiva has out there on the shelves. In the meanwhile the SMSL M400 DAC ties w/ first on latest chart:  |
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Post by audiobill on Mar 18, 2021 15:22:46 GMT -5
Per @keithl :
"To be quite honest I have never heard another DAC or preamp at any price that I would say sounds more accurate than the DACs in the XMC-2."
Maybe a hearing test is in order?.........Or simply that measurements aren't everything?
Hmmmmm.
I say just listen....
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 18, 2021 15:29:13 GMT -5
The purpose of Reference Stereo mode is to pass the signal without alteration of any kind. Its purpose is to pass the signal cleanly and accurately.
Therefore how good or bad it sounds will depend on the source, your speakers, your room, and anything else you have connected. The purpose of Dirac Live is to correct or compensate for inaccuracies in your speakers, your room, and your other gear. But it still isn't going to even attempt to compensate for a bad or mediocre sounding source.
To be quite honest I have never heard another DAC or preamp at any price that I would say sounds more accurate than the DACs in the XMC-2. That's not to say that you may not prefer the sound of another one. If you want to compare the accuracy of an analog preamp - then the thing to compare it to is one foot of wire with a connector on each end. (This is the proverbial "straight wire with gain" - only without the gain.)
Unfortunately, since we humans cannot listen to a digital signal directly, we're stuck with some sort of a DAC. (However, for the same reason, when we decide which one we like, we must then either rely on measurements or opinion.)
Audio Science Review while testing the XMC-1: "Conclusions: I had high hopes for Emotiva XMC-1 seeing how it is one of few home theater products with specifications. Alas, I was not able to meet those specs even though the measurements it did produce, put it high in the home theater department. The worst failing was the linearity test showing that there is some serious signal processing error inside this unit, muting the output below -90 dB. Was this put in there to improve specs? Or downright bug and lack of testing to find the same? Even without that problem, we still can't match performance of a $99 desktop DAC even though we paid $2,500. Yes, we got more channels than 2 and have room EQ but still, I want my good performance damn it! The XMC-2 has no specifications but I have read that they plan to release Audio Precision test results. Let's keep our fingers crossed that they deliver there." - www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-emotiva-xmc-1-gen-2-pre-pro.9225/Hope the Emotiva XMC-2 is better. There's a whole chart done by ASR in which the XMC-1 couldn't even compete w/ 99 dollar DACs. The yellow is where Emotiva's XMC-1 ranks at the date of testing: As far as accurate - in the article by ASR it was suggested that Emotiva was supposed to release certain specs. Did that ever come through into fruition? I'm not in the market for another DAC at the moment but if I should go to multi channel surround of course I'd look at whatever Emotiva has out there on the shelves. In the meanwhile the SMSL M400 DAC ties w/ first on latest chart: Again with ASR....here we go......face palm! |
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