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Post by markc on Jun 6, 2020 6:35:23 GMT -5
I just look at it that for Dirac implementation, it's not just the EDNIB and cables that we need, Emotiva are going to have to release an updated firmware with the speaker configuration re-jigged (Firmware 1.11 or maybe 2,0 as just the inclusion of Dirac will be a leapfrog?) Hopefully this firmware will address some of the residual irks that 1.10 has shown and maybe have some other things we'll like, so worth the wait. For Emotiva, Dirac on these processors has to work without significant issues, so taking the time to get the fine sprint right is important.
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Post by cwt on Jun 6, 2020 6:39:33 GMT -5
$350 extra for just the compensation of a single sub / mains interaction around the crossover point is harder to justify than $450 for multi subwoofer interference compensation plus compensation for the subwoofers/mains around the crossover. Look at it this way ; how much easier is it to have it done automatically ? But its hard when you have some justification for another sub ; certainly
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Post by marcl on Jun 6, 2020 7:47:58 GMT -5
Filters and Bass Management ... since loading Firmware 1.10 - while waiting for Dirac - I have returned to trying to use PEQ filters. Overall I have been able to achieve good results. Of course PEQ filters can't do what Dirac does (with more sophisticated mixed phase filters and impulse response correction), but the results are pretty good, and better than nothing. However ...
1 - It was noted shortly after 1.10 was released that the filters don't load in one Preset until you switch to the other Preset and back again. Having learned this, I do it every time and it works ... except when it doesn't! Sometimes the filters still don't load. Sometimes previous filters are cleared to default. When any of this happens I have to do a hard reboot and so far that fixes it.
2 - Enhanced Bass happens to be useful in my system to smooth out some mid-bass nulls with my front and rear channels. The new implementation allowing you to choose the crossover frequency is great. But this week there were times when it just stopped working. While doing measurements to verify filter changes I found that for the channels set to Large nothing was being sent to the subwoofer channel. In each case I had to do a hard reboot and turn Enhanced Bass off and on. In one case I did a Backup/Factory Reset/Restore and got it to work.
Both of these problems were verified at least twice this week, though they don't happen predictably or all of the time. My ongoing concern is having to be paranoid and run a periodic test to see if the filters have spontaneously cleared or Enhanced Bass has stopped working.
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Post by megash0n on Jun 6, 2020 8:35:38 GMT -5
I haven't messed with mine at all since changing to Tops. I've been meaning to. What did changing to “Tops” do for you ? It made Neural X sound substantially better. I don't believe there was a volume difference and anything that seemed to be lost was present.
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Post by bblv on Jun 6, 2020 10:11:17 GMT -5
Filters and Bass Management ... since loading Firmware 1.10 - while waiting for Dirac - I have returned to trying to use PEQ filters. Overall I have been able to achieve good results. Of course PEQ filters can't do what Dirac does (with more sophisticated mixed phase filters and impulse response correction), but the results are pretty good, and better than nothing. However ... 1 - It was noted shortly after 1.10 was released that the filters don't load in one Preset until you switch to the other Preset and back again. Having learned this, I do it every time and it works ... except when it doesn't! Sometimes the filters still don't load. Sometimes previous filters are cleared to default. When any of this happens I have to do a hard reboot and so far that fixes it. 2 - Enhanced Bass happens to be useful in my system to smooth out some mid-bass nulls with my front and rear channels. The new implementation allowing you to choose the crossover frequency is great. But this week there were times when it just stopped working. While doing measurements to verify filter changes I found that for the channels set to Large nothing was being sent to the subwoofer channel. In each case I had to do a hard reboot and turn Enhanced Bass off and on. In one case I did a Backup/Factory Reset/Restore and got it to work. Both of these problems were verified at least twice this week, though they don't happen predictably or all of the time. My ongoing concern is having to be paranoid and run a periodic test to see if the filters have spontaneously cleared or Enhanced Bass has stopped working. I experienced very similar issues with PEQ's and Enhanced Bass (just didn't realize what the issue was until I read your description of it). I did a factory reset and reloaded everything from scratch, NOT through reloading a saved config, and still experienced the same inconsistencies so I just did a factory reset and am leaving the PEQ's alone... Waiting (not so) patiently for Dirac. My family and guests don't notice that anything is off, but I do LOL
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 6, 2020 11:34:56 GMT -5
...I have always used a reserved address with the XMC-1 and now with the RMC-1, though it’s a good practice I do with all my equipment, it does not solve this problem. There are times you will start up the processor from a cold boot and have no NIC link, there are times you’ll have a link but no service, and times it will work fine, and then when you do something ‘difficult’ (like play a UHD disk) it will lose service. Sometimes when things get ‘simple’ again, it might come back, but once you lose the link light (on the back) you have to do a switch off cold boot to get it back. While it could be hardware, I expect (and hope) it’s not. Emo is aware of the problem and know it needs to be fixed. re: network issues and UHD. The remote apps will not connect/work when the audio source isn't one they recognize. Try connecting to the app before starting your source. I have found that if my RMC-1 is in an standard DD or PCM mode I can get the app to connect and it stays connected after starting an Atmos or DTS:X or UHD source. That has not been my experience. For example, last night I had the the TV on and was making some network changes in the system settings (TV outputting PCM 2.0), I also had the XMC-1 App loaded and working (I made some trim changes). Then I went to the Disney+ App and (finally) watched Star Wars IX (4K, DV, Atmos via PCM/MAT). At one point I went into the App to make more trim changes and the screen was blank (likely the link lost but I didn’t get up to look). Still fits the pattern of the processor getting ‘busy’, though presumably not as busy as it would have been with a UHD disk of IX.
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
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Post by richb on Jun 6, 2020 13:56:10 GMT -5
It’ll actually be a complete room correction software with the $450. Bass management should be part of room correction since that’s literally what the point of room correction is - tampering the bass as demonstrated by Dirac. But I’m willing to pay for it if and when it’s available since without it, the room correction would be incomplete. I believe that’s true, because Emotiva is giving us a ‘base’ Dirac Live license, so that for an additional $450 you’ll have Full Dirac Live 3.x plus the multi-sub Bass Control. When you consider what you’ve paid for the processor and your subs, $450 to get the best possible performance from them seems reasonable. I am also willing to pay for it. I don't need base Dirac correction but DBC (Dirac Bass Control) is interesting since I am in the process of replacing my Studio2 rears with Salon2's. They are not subs but they have considerable output below 30 Hz. I'd love to see a 30-day trial license, to try and buy. - Rich
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Post by megash0n on Jun 6, 2020 14:16:56 GMT -5
And Dirac Live 3.0 software is officially out. It includes Dirac Bass Control and unofficial support for the latest MacOS releases. It seems like 2.0 was their beta for 3.0. Link? Part of the conversation I had with Emotiva when speaking to them a month ago about this. It seemed very obvious to me there was a road map that needed to be understood. Oops.
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Post by novisnick on Jun 6, 2020 14:36:32 GMT -5
I believe that’s true, because Emotiva is giving us a ‘base’ Dirac Live license, so that for an additional $450 you’ll have Full Dirac Live 3.x plus the multi-sub Bass Control. When you consider what you’ve paid for the processor and your subs, $450 to get the best possible performance from them seems reasonable. I am also willing to pay for it. I don't need base Dirac correction but DBC (Dirac Bass Control) is interesting since I am in the process of replacing my Studio2 rears with Salon2's. They are not subs but they have considerable output below 30 Hz. I'd love to see a 30-day trial license, to try and buy. - Rich Yes! For $450, Dirac 3.x had better show me something worth those dollars. No trial would push me to a possible return of the RMC-1. That’s, a boatload of money to not get something worthwhile, but to tack on more would have to be proven. Yes, the RMC-1 will someday come with some sort of basic Dirac. Name it what you like. Live, Dead, breathing! Whatever! I love me some Emotiva, but! My opinion, let the criticism begin.
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richb
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Post by richb on Jun 6, 2020 14:54:11 GMT -5
I am also willing to pay for it. I don't need base Dirac correction but DBC (Dirac Bass Control) is interesting since I am in the process of replacing my Studio2 rears with Salon2's. They are not subs but they have considerable output below 30 Hz. I'd love to see a 30-day trial license, to try and buy. - Rich Yes! For $450, Dirac 3.x had better show me something worth those dollars. No trial would push me to a possible return of the RMC-1. That’s, a boatload of money to not get something worthwhile, but to tack on more would have to be proven. Yes, the RMC-1 will someday come with some sort of basic Dirac. Name it what you like. Live, Dead, breathing! Whatever! I love me some Emotiva, but! My opinion, let the criticism begin. Whatever happens with Dirac 3.0/DBC module, it requires support from Emotiva but the pricing and trial policy is out of their hands. The 3.0 merely numbering where Dirac felt DBC deserved a higher number grade. They wanted to evoke an emotional response, which succeeded - Rich
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Post by novisnick on Jun 6, 2020 15:57:21 GMT -5
Yes! For $450, Dirac 3.x had better show me something worth those dollars. No trial would push me to a possible return of the RMC-1. That’s, a boatload of money to not get something worthwhile, but to tack on more would have to be proven. Yes, the RMC-1 will someday come with some sort of basic Dirac. Name it what you like. Live, Dead, breathing! Whatever! I love me some Emotiva, but! My opinion, let the criticism begin. Whatever happens with Dirac 3.0/DBC module, it requires support from Emotiva but the pricing and trial policy is out of their hands. The 3.0 merely numbering where Dirac felt DBC deserved a higher number grade. They wanted to evoke an emotional response, which succeeded - Rich Yes, pricing may be out of Emotiva’s control but my statement still holds water. Without a trial period the whole question may be mute.
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richb
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Posts: 873
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Post by richb on Jun 6, 2020 16:20:58 GMT -5
Whatever happens with Dirac 3.0/DBC module, it requires support from Emotiva but the pricing and trial policy is out of their hands. The 3.0 merely numbering where Dirac felt DBC deserved a higher number grade. They wanted to evoke an emotional response, which succeeded - Rich Yes, pricing may be out of Emotiva’s control but my statement still holds water. Without a trial period the whole question may be mute. I 100% agree with a trial. The more folks that contact Dirac directly, the better. - Rich
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Jun 6, 2020 16:29:24 GMT -5
Whatever happens with Dirac 3.0/DBC module, it requires support from Emotiva but the pricing and trial policy is out of their hands. The 3.0 merely numbering where Dirac felt DBC deserved a higher number grade. They wanted to evoke an emotional response, which succeeded - Rich Yes, pricing may be out of Emotiva’s control but my statement still holds water. Without a trial period the whole question may be mute. So, you are wanting DIRAC to offer a trial period to make sure it works for your situation? Have you contacted DIRAC to see if that will be an option?
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richb
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Post by richb on Jun 6, 2020 17:01:11 GMT -5
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Jun 6, 2020 17:16:27 GMT -5
I'll be checking that thread to see if he answers. He also has an account here on the Lounge with the same screen name, "flak". Maybe he could answer DIRAC 3.0 and DBC questions here as well as any insights into the software.
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Post by novisnick on Jun 6, 2020 17:26:36 GMT -5
Yes, pricing may be out of Emotiva’s control but my statement still holds water. Without a trial period the whole question may be mute. So, you are wanting DIRAC to offer a trial period to make sure it works for your situation? Have you contacted DIRAC to see if that will be an option? Outstanding! I’ll getter done!
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Post by krauley on Jun 6, 2020 18:53:47 GMT -5
I have my xmc-2 set to start up on a certain input just as my xmc-1 did but its not. Its starting up on the last used. Im also using lowest power standby as i did on my xmc-1 but this shouldnt have any bearing on whether or not what input it starts up with. Is there something im not seeing? Before doing a factory reset or reinstall the firmware is there some deep dark setting im missing? I’m pretty sure that problem has been reported and is being worked on, you’re not doing anything wrong ... well, at least with this setting 😉 Thank you thats actually great news lol. Ive scanned this thread but didnt read all the way through because i just recieved my unit...yes good news!
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Post by jagman on Jun 7, 2020 0:39:19 GMT -5
Thanks. But it says it adds support for Bass Control. Not that it includes Bass Control. "Official Dirac Live Bass Control support"However, in the Dirac live shop: View AttachmentCurrently only on sale via the Dirac website for the Arcam processors and the Audio Control Concert XR-4 At least we know the price now: $349 single sub, $449 multi sub The multi-sub DBC upgrade is actually $499. I'm surprised nobody else noticed that in your image!
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Post by markc on Jun 7, 2020 1:40:18 GMT -5
However, in the Dirac live shop: Currently only on sale via the Dirac website for the Arcam processors and the Audio Control Concert XR-4 At least we know the price now: $349 single sub, $449 multi sub The multi-sub DBC upgrade is actually $499. I'm surprised nobody else noticed that in your image! Myself included! $500 is a lot of cash for a piece of software. I could get a reasonable second subwoofer for that price. But then of course I would be more likely to want to buy DLBC... I'm pretty certain there will be no trial period for the Bass Control, so we can put that idea to sleep. Not for listening tests, anyway. If Dirac were clever they would let you play with the Bass Control software and filters so that you see how you can create lovely flat lines and fine tune the crossovers on each speaker channel, but stop you actually generating the filters unless you drop $350 / $500 Dirac filters, once created, and uploaded reside entirely on the Surround Sound Processor. They don't require validation or re-certification or have an expiry date. Many Emotiva users will not have to connect to the internet again. I'm therefore pretty confident that there won't be a listening "before and after" in our homes.
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Post by jagman on Jun 7, 2020 8:43:56 GMT -5
The multi-sub DBC upgrade is actually $499. I'm surprised nobody else noticed that in your image! Myself included! $500 is a lot of cash for a piece of software. I could get a reasonable second subwoofer for that price. But then of course I would be more likely to want to buy DLBC... I'm pretty certain there will be no trial period for the Bass Control, so we can put that idea to sleep. Not for listening tests, anyway. If Dirac were clever they would let you play with the Bass Control software and filters so that you see how you can create lovely flat lines and fine tune the crossovers on each speaker channel, but stop you actually generating the filters unless you drop $350 / $500 Dirac filters, once created, and uploaded reside entirely on the Surround Sound Processor. They don't require validation or re-certification or have an expiry date. Many Emotiva users will not have to connect to the internet again. I'm therefore pretty confident that there won't be a listening "before and after" in our homes. This is simply a you gotta pay to play thing. Same thing happened to me at work. I bought an app. It was about $1k. Was told "updates" would be free. Fast forward a few years... an "upgrade" is available for only $2k. The new features are nice but the functionality is still quite similar. Really, the new app is the way it should have been from the beginning, and the "all new build from the ground up" really only fixed major problems that existed because of how the first one was poorly written. I have to pay to help them cover their ass. Really frustrating. This situation with DIRAC is a bit different, though similar. I think it comes down to DIRAC having a licensing fee for DLBC that is pretty steep. The companies that make the pre-pros with large margins absorb that cost whereas the companies with pre-pros that have thin margins simply can't afford to do that.
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