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Post by jbrunwa on Sept 13, 2021 13:09:14 GMT -5
My XMC-2 FW 2.3 currently shows a volume level of -32.5. Since the front panel volume knob and the remote control appear to only increment or decrement volume by 1, I wonder how did it get to be a .5. I notice if I turn the volume the whole way down it will revert to .0 values. I also noticed that the front panel knob detent is an increment of 2, and I can change it by 1 if I finesse it and balance the knob between detents. It’s not a problem, no complaints, I just was wondering if someone can explain the nuances of volume control. TIA.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 13, 2021 13:15:19 GMT -5
What's the latest strategy for getting clean HDMI switching? When I turn on my system, the HDMI source usually does not come up. I generally have to switch back and forth a few times to get the one I want. Another issue I have is that I like to stream music but I don't need the projector on while doing so, so once I set up it up, If I then turn off the projector, The RMC1 loses the HDMI connection to the source I'm trying to stream, it's very annoying. I only have 2 sources, an Xbox Series X (4k) on HDMI 1 and a PC (4k) on HDMI 2, outputting to a JVC 4k projector, all connected with Emotive ZHDMI cables and I'm using a Harmony remote. Is there a good startup sequence and/or delays I can program into the Harmony, or something else I could try? Thanks, Brad I would say 90% of the time I turn on my XMC-2 it does not find the HDMI source. I have to switch inputs or turn everything off and back on again (I use HDMI CEC so it's only a couple button presses). Nonetheless, it would be nice if I didn't have to do that each time I turned the unit on. I'm guessing it has to do with the order in which the devices are switched on, unfortunately I don't have any way to set that order unless I were to do so manually which I'll take CEC over that. Hopefully maybe in the future that can be ironed out. I would suggest, if you haven't already, that you try re-selecting the input when it fails to lock onto the source. (Starting with FW 2.3, if you re-select the current input, it retries the HDMI handshake, which will often fix that sort of issue.) I usually do that first, some times it works and sometimes it doesn't. Have you tried the re-select using the Emotiva remote, or the Harmony? If you haven't tried the Emotiva remote, please try that to determine if it's a Harmony code that needs to be altered somewhat. There is a Harmony thread that can be helpful with some tweaks, - if - that's the cause. If not, then hopefully there's something else to try. I will respectfully disagree with KeithL that renegotiating HDMI is fixing the problem, and think that is probably masking the true problem which is a bug I mentioned above and described in the Harmony thread. In my testing, when the G3P turns on from LPS (or complete power off), it either ignores or can't properly interpret a 'Discrete Input' command, whether it be HDMI, digital in, or analog — the first time it is entered. It CAN interpret what I call a 'Button Command', which is selecting an input by pressing the 1-8 button that is assigned in the Input Setup area. ttocs suggestion to test this by using the Emotiva remote will prove this point in that it only sends Button commands and will always work — If you use the Harmony and use it's Button commands that will also work (they are designate as 'Input 1', 'Input 2', etc, or just 1, 2, etc.). This is NOT because there is something wrong with the Harmony command, but rather that the G3P seems to ignore it. Keith has now seemed to confirm a suspicion of markc that this problem began with FW 2.3, and that's certainly about the time I started noticing something, but I have not regressed to 2.2 to test this (and don't plan to). So to reiterate, hitting the command again is fixing the the problem by entering the command twice, because the first command was ignored, not because HDMI has renegotiated. I have reported this bug, but don't know if it's made 'the list'. Edit: From several posts above This post details my testing: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1075891/threadThis post I detail a way to workaround the bug when using a Harmony (hint, it uses Button commands) emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1074046/thread
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 13, 2021 13:42:26 GMT -5
My XMC-2 FW 2.3 currently shows a volume level of -32.5. Since the front panel volume knob and the remote control appear to only increment or decrement volume by 1, I wonder how did it get to be a .5. I notice if I turn the volume the whole way down it will revert to .0 values. I also noticed that the front panel knob detent is an increment of 2, and I can change it by 1 if I finesse it and balance the knob between detents. It’s not a problem, no complaints, I just was wondering if someone can explain the nuances of volume control. TIA. It's a bug that appears after running Dirac (though I haven't noticed it), it can be fixed buy running the volume all the way down and back up.
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Sept 13, 2021 14:02:20 GMT -5
Hitting the button a second time is fixing it because it resets the input. In previous firmware releases, if you selected an input that was already selected, it simply wasn't "reselected".
What's the latest strategy for getting clean HDMI switching? When I turn on my system, the HDMI source usually does not come up. I generally have to switch back and forth a few times to get the one I want. Another issue I have is that I like to stream music but I don't need the projector on while doing so, so once I set up it up, If I then turn off the projector, The RMC1 loses the HDMI connection to the source I'm trying to stream, it's very annoying. I only have 2 sources, an Xbox Series X (4k) on HDMI 1 and a PC (4k) on HDMI 2, outputting to a JVC 4k projector, all connected with Emotive ZHDMI cables and I'm using a Harmony remote. Is there a good startup sequence and/or delays I can program into the Harmony, or something else I could try? Thanks, Brad I would say 90% of the time I turn on my XMC-2 it does not find the HDMI source. I have to switch inputs or turn everything off and back on again (I use HDMI CEC so it's only a couple button presses). Nonetheless, it would be nice if I didn't have to do that each time I turned the unit on. I'm guessing it has to do with the order in which the devices are switched on, unfortunately I don't have any way to set that order unless I were to do so manually which I'll take CEC over that. Hopefully maybe in the future that can be ironed out. I would suggest, if you haven't already, that you try re-selecting the input when it fails to lock onto the source. (Starting with FW 2.3, if you re-select the current input, it retries the HDMI handshake, which will often fix that sort of issue.) I usually do that first, some times it works and sometimes it doesn't. Have you tried the re-select using the Emotiva remote, or the Harmony? If you haven't tried the Emotiva remote, please try that to determine if it's a Harmony code that needs to be altered somewhat. There is a Harmony thread that can be helpful with some tweaks, - if - that's the cause. If not, then hopefully there's something else to try. I will respectfully disagree with KeithL that renegotiating HDMI is fixing the problem, and think that is probably masking the true problem which is a bug I mentioned above and described in the Harmony thread. In my testing, when the G3P turns on from LPS (or complete power off), it either ignores or can't properly interpret a 'Discrete Input' command, whether it be HDMI, digital in, or analog — the first time it is entered. It CAN interpret what I call a 'Button Command', which is selecting an input by pressing the 1-8 button that is assigned in the Input Setup area. ttocs suggestion to test this by using the Emotiva remote will prove this point in that it only sends Button commands and will always work — If you use the Harmony and use it's Button commands that will also work (they are designate as 'Input 1', 'Input 2', etc, or just 1, 2, etc.). This is NOT because there is something wrong with the Harmony command, but rather that the G3P seems to ignore it. Keith has now seemed to confirm a suspicion of markc that this problem began with FW 2.3, and that's certainly about the time I started noticing something, but I have not regressed to 2.2 to test this (and don't plan to). So to reiterate, hitting the command again is fixing the the problem by entering the command twice, because the first command was ignored, not because HDMI has renegotiated. I have reported this bug, but don't know if it's made 'the list'. Edit: From several posts above This post details my testing: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1075891/threadThis post I detail a way to workaround the bug when using a Harmony (hint, it uses Button commands) emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1074046/thread
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Post by ElectricKoolAid on Sept 13, 2021 14:17:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure if it matters - but I do use VRO and not LPS if that makes any difference. I have not tried choosing the same input, i've either always powered off the devices (all at the same time via CEC through my Nvidia Shield's remote) or if I have the Emotiva remote nearby (which I usually don't as I can get by with just the Shield's remote) I will choose HDMI input 2 and then switch back to input 1 after a few seconds.
I can try choosing the same HDMI input this evening and see if that also works - but for what it's worth if the bug is identified and can be fixed that would be amazing as it's great to only have to click one button on one remote one time to have everything come on via HDMI CEC. I know CEC is a dirty word (or acronym) but when it works, it's great.
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Post by jbrunwa on Sept 13, 2021 14:20:43 GMT -5
My XMC-2 FW 2.3 currently shows a volume level of -32.5. Since the front panel volume knob and the remote control appear to only increment or decrement volume by 1, I wonder how did it get to be a .5. I notice if I turn the volume the whole way down it will revert to .0 values. I also noticed that the front panel knob detent is an increment of 2, and I can change it by 1 if I finesse it and balance the knob between detents. It’s not a problem, no complaints, I just was wondering if someone can explain the nuances of volume control. TIA. It's a bug that appears after running Dirac (though I haven't noticed it), it can be fixed buy running the volume all the way down and back up. Thanks, that’s what happened. I had just imported a Dirac filter. Do you know, was the volume actually -32.5 then, implying that half dB precision is possible, or just plain wrong?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 13, 2021 14:23:35 GMT -5
... and I will continue to say you've introduced a new bug, and broken the way discrete commands can be used (after many years of successful operation with the XMC-1 and current G3P). If you haven't read the links below and the testing I've done, please do. I will submit my testing again though channels. Hitting the button a second time is fixing it because it resets the input. In previous firmware releases, if you selected an input that was already selected, it simply wasn't "reselected".
I will respectfully disagree with KeithL that renegotiating HDMI is fixing the problem, and think that is probably masking the true problem which is a bug I mentioned above and described in the Harmony thread. In my testing, when the G3P turns on from LPS (or complete power off), it either ignores or can't properly interpret a 'Discrete Input' command, whether it be HDMI, digital in, or analog — the first time it is entered. It CAN interpret what I call a 'Button Command', which is selecting an input by pressing the 1-8 button that is assigned in the Input Setup area. ttocs suggestion to test this by using the Emotiva remote will prove this point in that it only sends Button commands and will always work — If you use the Harmony and use it's Button commands that will also work (they are designate as 'Input 1', 'Input 2', etc, or just 1, 2, etc.). This is NOT because there is something wrong with the Harmony command, but rather that the G3P seems to ignore it. Keith has now seemed to confirm a suspicion of markc that this problem began with FW 2.3, and that's certainly about the time I started noticing something, but I have not regressed to 2.2 to test this (and don't plan to). So to reiterate, hitting the command again is fixing the the problem by entering the command twice, because the first command was ignored, not because HDMI has renegotiated. I have reported this bug, but don't know if it's made 'the list'. Edit: From several posts above This post details my testing: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1075891/threadThis post I detail a way to workaround the bug when using a Harmony (hint, it uses Button commands) emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1074046/thread
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 13, 2021 14:30:31 GMT -5
I'm not sure if it matters - but I do use VRO and not LPS if that makes any difference. I have not tried choosing the same input, i've either always powered off the devices (all at the same time via CEC through my Nvidia Shield's remote) or if I have the Emotiva remote nearby (which I usually don't as I can get by with just the Shield's remote) I will choose HDMI input 2 and then switch back to input 1 after a few seconds. I can try choosing the same HDMI input this evening and see if that also works - but for what it's worth if the bug is identified and can be fixed that would be amazing as it's great to only have to click one button on one remote one time to have everything come on via HDMI CEC. I know CEC is a dirty word (or acronym) but when it works, it's great. I can only speak for using the Harmony Setup, that most use, and in my testing it doesn't matter what Input you use if you send a discrete command, but I will test it again with VRO. The first link has my testing, so I don't want to repeat it all again, but whether you use 'Last Input' or a specific input might also play into your results. Edit: Just tested with VRO and with the Harmony, it works correctly. I would have to know more about the specifics of what commands you are sending with what remote to make further comment -- and I've done no testing with CEC, so I'll have to bow out of what you're experiencing.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 13, 2021 14:32:57 GMT -5
It's a bug that appears after running Dirac (though I haven't noticed it), it can be fixed buy running the volume all the way down and back up. Thanks, that’s what happened. I had just imported a Dirac filter. Do you know, was the volume actually -32.5 then, implying that half dB precision is possible, or just plain wrong? 🤷♂️ -- probably cosmetic, but I don't know.
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Post by ElectricKoolAid on Sept 13, 2021 14:38:10 GMT -5
I'm not sure if it matters - but I do use VRO and not LPS if that makes any difference. I have not tried choosing the same input, i've either always powered off the devices (all at the same time via CEC through my Nvidia Shield's remote) or if I have the Emotiva remote nearby (which I usually don't as I can get by with just the Shield's remote) I will choose HDMI input 2 and then switch back to input 1 after a few seconds. I can try choosing the same HDMI input this evening and see if that also works - but for what it's worth if the bug is identified and can be fixed that would be amazing as it's great to only have to click one button on one remote one time to have everything come on via HDMI CEC. I know CEC is a dirty word (or acronym) but when it works, it's great. I can only speak for using the Harmony Setup, that most use, and in my testing it doesn't matter what Input you use if you send a discrete command, but I will test it again with VRO. The first link has my testing, so I don't want to repeat it all again, but whether you use 'Last Input' or a specific input might also play into your results. Thanks, for clarity I just wanted to mention that. I guess what I was getting at is I do also believe that a bug was introduced in 2.3 but I wanted to bring up VRO in case it was relevant. I have only had the XMC-2 since firmware 2.1 and I don't think it used to have this issue locking onto the HDMI signal - at least as much as it does now. It's definitely most of the time - usually the only time it doesn't have the issue is if I turned everything off within the last 15 minutes or so maybe? I did have other CEC issues with previous firmware - I will say that in general, CEC has worked pretty much perfectly since 2.3 aside from an issue I had right after the update. But yes, sorting out the HDMI sync/lock would be amazing.
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Post by ttocs on Sept 13, 2021 14:43:41 GMT -5
It's a bug that appears after running Dirac (though I haven't noticed it), it can be fixed buy running the volume all the way down and back up. Thanks, that’s what happened. I had just imported a Dirac filter. Do you know, was the volume actually -32.5 then, implying that half dB precision is possible, or just plain wrong? It really is a half step dB and can be measured as such. When I've run REW afterwards I've measured that half step. So I run the volume all the way down and remeasure and the new measurement is .5dB different.
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,004
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Post by KeithL on Sept 13, 2021 14:56:42 GMT -5
The volume control works internally in 0.5 dB steps (and the channels track each other much more closely than that). However, because most people consider it too slow to adjust the Volume in 0.5 dB steps, the control is programmed to change the Volume in 1.0 dB steps. (What's happening is that the counter that controls the setting has skipped a step.) However, even when this happens, the channels will still all track perfectly, and will still move in "full 1 dB steps". (The display is always showing you what the actual control is doing.)
Thanks, that’s what happened. I had just imported a Dirac filter. Do you know, was the volume actually -32.5 then, implying that half dB precision is possible, or just plain wrong? It really is a half step dB and can be measured as such. When I've run REW afterwards I've measured that half step. So I run the volume all the way down and remeasure and the new measurement is .5dB different.
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Post by bbillman on Sept 13, 2021 15:02:40 GMT -5
I usually do that first, some times it works and sometimes it doesn't. Have you tried the re-select using the Emotiva remote, or the Harmony? If you haven't tried the Emotiva remote, please try that to determine if it's a Harmony code that needs to be altered somewhat. There is a Harmony thread that can be helpful with some tweaks, - if - that's the cause. If not, then hopefully there's something else to try. I'll put the Harmony away and run with the projector and Emo remotes for a while and see. Thanks
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Post by bbillman on Sept 13, 2021 15:07:02 GMT -5
FYI, in addition to the HDMI 2.1 board installation video that was posted on YouTube the other day, the Expansion Module install video was just posted and just like that, the first Expansion Modules are available. I'm more interested in a Balanced Output module, but maybe some day...
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Post by markc on Sept 13, 2021 15:12:58 GMT -5
Hitting the button a second time is fixing it because it resets the input. In previous firmware releases, if you selected an input that was already selected, it simply wasn't "reselected".
I will respectfully disagree with KeithL that renegotiating HDMI is fixing the problem, and think that is probably masking the true problem which is a bug I mentioned above and described in the Harmony thread. In my testing, when the G3P turns on from LPS (or complete power off), it either ignores or can't properly interpret a 'Discrete Input' command, whether it be HDMI, digital in, or analog — the first time it is entered. It CAN interpret what I call a 'Button Command', which is selecting an input by pressing the 1-8 button that is assigned in the Input Setup area. ttocs suggestion to test this by using the Emotiva remote will prove this point in that it only sends Button commands and will always work — If you use the Harmony and use it's Button commands that will also work (they are designate as 'Input 1', 'Input 2', etc, or just 1, 2, etc.). This is NOT because there is something wrong with the Harmony command, but rather that the G3P seems to ignore it. Keith has now seemed to confirm a suspicion of markc that this problem began with FW 2.3, and that's certainly about the time I started noticing something, but I have not regressed to 2.2 to test this (and don't plan to). So to reiterate, hitting the command again is fixing the the problem by entering the command twice, because the first command was ignored, not because HDMI has renegotiated. I have reported this bug, but don't know if it's made 'the list'. Edit: From several posts above This post details my testing: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1075891/threadThis post I detail a way to workaround the bug when using a Harmony (hint, it uses Button commands) emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1074046/threadDear Keith, prior to 2.3, this issue with input selection was rarely a problem. When I turn on my XMC-2, it is se to to come on to HDMI 2 and it now NEVER locks on to the HDMI 2 AV signal. Never. EVERY time I turn on my XMC-2, I have to select the input a second time. This issue is also discussed at length in a Harmony remote hub where it was erroneously put down to a Harmony startup routine failure (Where Harmony starts the XMC and then sets the required input) The failure of the selected input to lock-on to the HDMI AV signal is not due to Harmony, it is this same error. The input has to be selected TWICE, in the manner you describe, in order for lock-on to occur. It is possible that this is due to the change you mentioned in this firmware release, that was introduced in firmware 2.3, that is having these undesired effects?
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Post by tngiloy on Sept 13, 2021 15:42:07 GMT -5
The volume control works internally in 0.5 dB steps (and the channels track each other much more closely than that). However, because most people consider it too slow to adjust the Volume in 0.5 dB steps, the control is programmed to change the Volume in 1.0 dB steps. (What's happening is that the counter that controls the setting has skipped a step.) However, even when this happens, the channels will still all track perfectly, and will still move in "full 1 dB steps". (The display is always showing you what the actual control is doing.)
It really is a half step dB and can be measured as such. When I've run REW afterwards I've measured that half step. So I run the volume all the way down and remeasure and the new measurement is .5dB different. This may just be me, but I would like to be able to change volume in .5 db steps with each button push. If I want to move quickly I can push and hold and the volume changes quickly (like right after power on). Almost all my other processors allowed .5 db volume steps and it often came in handy. Just sayin'.
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Chris
Emo VIPs
Posts: 424
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Post by Chris on Sept 13, 2021 15:50:05 GMT -5
With FW 2.3 and my 2021 Sony A80J TV I currently have to do the following practically every time I turn on my System. - Press Sony TV Remote power on. Sony TV wakes up. about 25% of the time the XMC-2 wakes up and I see the HDMI ARC handshake.
- The Sony switches between TV Speaker and Audio System about a dozen times and then gives up and says External Audio not available.
- I then proceed to do a round robin of switching first to the tuner input which may or may not wake things up. I then switch to another input and then the analog XLR input. Finally I return to the HDMI ARC.
- I then switch the Sony output to External Audio once again and press the volume control to observe if it is communicating with the XMC-2.
- If I think things are working I try an audio/video source (usually YouTube TV) to see if I get sound.
- If no sound still, I go through earlier steps over again until I eventually get things working.
- And yes, I have gone through dozens of time all the settings on both the Sony and XMC-2.
This can take upwards of 5 minutes each time I turn on the TV. Not ideal. I have suggested before that Emotiva buy one TV from Sony, Samsung, LG each year to test compatibility. This may cost $3,000. Maybe this costs too much for them? But at least they would see what is really happening instead of relying on reports from the field.
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 860
Member is Online
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Post by richb on Sept 13, 2021 16:37:59 GMT -5
... and I will continue to say you've introduced a new bug, and broken the way discrete commands can be used (after many years of successful operation with the XMC-1 and current G3P). If you haven't read the links below and the testing I've done, please do. I will submit my testing again though channels. Hitting the button a second time is fixing it because it resets the input. In previous firmware releases, if you selected an input that was already selected, it simply wasn't "reselected".
The input selection was noticeably slower and now I know why. The macro I have is designed to work when the RMC-1 is on or from a VRO power on as follows: - Select the HDMI input
- Power On RMC-1 (in case not on, this does nothing when on)
- Power on Screen (in case not on, this does nothing when on)
- Wait 2 seconds
- Select the HDMI Input (in case not accepted during a power on
Firmware 2.3 reselect input blanks the screen and takes 8 seconds. I agree with AudioHTIT, the selecting of the current input should not reset the input. HDMI is messy but the point of the handshake is to delay until it works. I prefer no reselection handshake and blanking when selecting the current input. - Rich
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Post by aswiss on Sept 13, 2021 16:43:52 GMT -5
FYI, in addition to the HDMI 2.1 board installation video that was posted on YouTube the other day, the Expansion Module install video was just posted and just like that, the first Expansion Modules are available. I'm more interested in a Balanced Output module, but maybe some day... Just ordered my Balanced IN Module.
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Post by Thunderduck on Sept 14, 2021 9:34:41 GMT -5
Watching tv this morning with RMC-1 in VRO mode as usual. Decided to use the speakers so turned on the RMC. No sound. Changed input and back, no sound. Selected the tv's input while on that selection, no sound. Had to power all the way down and back on again in order to get sound.
The RMC-1 sounds great when it is working, but there are still times when it can really try my patience. Nothing extremely bad but there are still little things like this that can add up.
Hanging in there but it can sure be hard at times.
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