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Post by hsamwel on Sept 15, 2021 6:26:53 GMT -5
Today, I send email to Emotiva Support Center concerning leak small amount of output voltage from front and front wide when I use bi-amp mode with VRO. Leakage amount is 0.27mV to 0.28mV, it is not that high but is enough to prevent my power amplifier to sleep. Always getting hot. My Amplifier does not have trigger, it is designed for always on. If my amps were on-off type then I could not find any leakage. Now I turn off bi-amp feature and use Y cable to split signal to two stereo power amplifier, no warm or hot when my RMC-1L is in standby mode. It is ok but I hate Y cable so I need to fix this problem soon. Hopefully Emotiva should have solution. (Maybe not, if it is caused by circuit design error... but if it is caused by firmware bug, I have hope to fix it next new firmware release....)  Let's see what they said. I will post their response as soon as I get answer. Just so you are aware, the Bi Amp "feature" is not one that can be used under all conditions. It was added after the fact because it was possible to implement and able to work with Digital signals. However, Bi Amp will not work with Analog signals. So this means, it will not work for Reference Stereo for example and there is a delay between the analog being sent to the Front Channels and the digital signal flow from the Wides Channels. This delay will not be "fixed" because it is not intended to work this way. Reference Stereo is only for a totally analog signal path. A note.. Analog signals work, but only through a processed output mode. Reference Stereo with an ALL analog throughput will not work. Damon told me it was not a delay per say.. It was some kind of upmixing mode put into the bi-amped channel because it was not designed to be able to be split into two other channels. A code mistake you could say.. Because of the processing done on it caused a delay.. It was supposed to be muted as it could not be ”fixed”, he told me. Has it not been? |
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ttocs
Global Moderator 
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,168
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Post by ttocs on Sept 15, 2021 6:45:28 GMT -5
Damon told me it was not a delay per say.. It was some kind of upmixing mode put into the bi-amped channel because it was not designed to be able to be split into two other channels. A code mistake you could say.. Because of the processing done on it caused a delay.. It was supposed to be muted as it could not be ”fixed”, he told me. Has it not been?I haven't checked lately. Maybe I'll do so this weekend. |
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Post by jbrunwa on Sept 16, 2021 13:17:34 GMT -5
Can someone explain the behavior of the XMC-2 FW 2.3 when switching inputs, or when the surround mode changes on the source?
There is an understandable maybe 2 second mute, and sound comes on. However, there frequently is a second mute for about two seconds before the sound comes back on and stays on. It seems like there should only be one mute period.
There is also often a mild snap that we hear but have not been able to localize to a specific speaker when modes change or after the XMC-2 resumes from standby.
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Post by goodfellas27 on Sept 16, 2021 13:25:49 GMT -5
That's sound like normal behavior. There are multiple threads talking about these issues going back years. No solution in sight. Can someone explain the behavior of the XMC-2 FW 2.3 when switching inputs, or when the surround mode changes on the source? There is an understandable maybe 2 second mute, and sound comes on. However, there frequently is a second mute for about two seconds before the sound comes back on and stays on. It seems like there should only be one mute period. There is also often a mild snap that we hear but have not been able to localize to a specific speaker when modes change or after the XMC-2 resumes from standby. |
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Post by jbrunwa on Sept 16, 2021 16:38:01 GMT -5
That's sound like normal behavior. There are multiple threads talking about these issues going back years. No solution in sight. Can someone explain the behavior of the XMC-2 FW 2.3 when switching inputs, or when the surround mode changes on the source? There is an understandable maybe 2 second mute, and sound comes on. However, there frequently is a second mute for about two seconds before the sound comes back on and stays on. It seems like there should only be one mute period. There is also often a mild snap that we hear but have not been able to localize to a specific speaker when modes change or after the XMC-2 resumes from standby. By normal, do you mean that it happens to all the XMC-2 and RMC-1? Has anyone been able to determine what it is doing when it does a double take? For example. is it a buffer issue, or a decoding issue, etc. I would expect there to be a simple explanation, and maybe a statement if it will always be this way. |
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Post by goodfellas27 on Sept 16, 2021 17:14:35 GMT -5
Just see the history of the forum you'll get your answer.  By normal, do you mean that it happens to all the XMC-2 and RMC-1? Has anyone been able to determine what it is doing when it does a double take? For example. is it a buffer issue, or a decoding issue, etc. I would expect there to be a simple explanation, and maybe a statement if it will always be this way. |
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Post by soupial on Sept 16, 2021 20:28:02 GMT -5
Just see the history of the forum you'll get your answer. By normal, do you mean that it happens to all the XMC-2 and RMC-1? Has anyone been able to determine what it is doing when it does a double take? For example. is it a buffer issue, or a decoding issue, etc. I would expect there to be a simple explanation, and maybe a statement if it will always be this way. Couldn't you just tell us? Not everyone wants to read through this 265 page thread. |
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Post by cwt on Sept 17, 2021 2:18:06 GMT -5
Just see the history of the forum you'll get your answer. Couldn't you just tell us? Not everyone wants to read through this 265 page thread. To address the locking on and delays mentioned it derives from the latest firmware where the hdmi is forced to renegotiate ; last page gives an idea.. emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1078895/threadsnaps/white noise and codec swapping anomalies have a longer history for some .. |
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Post by PaulBe on Sept 17, 2021 11:08:26 GMT -5
The volume control works internally in 0.5 dB steps (and the channels track each other much more closely than that). However, because most people consider it too slow to adjust the Volume in 0.5 dB steps, the control is programmed to change the Volume in 1.0 dB steps. (What's happening is that the counter that controls the setting has skipped a step.) However, even when this happens, the channels will still all track perfectly, and will still move in "full 1 dB steps". (The display is always showing you what the actual control is doing.)
It really is a half step dB and can be measured as such. When I've run REW afterwards I've measured that half step. So I run the volume all the way down and remeasure and the new measurement is .5dB different. If there is any place where finer level control is needed, it is in the level setup for individual channels and EQ. - .1 dB please. Full 1dB steps in overall level control is enough for me. Perhaps a choice for 1dB or .5dB steps for overall level could be a menu setting. |
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Post by jbrunwa on Sept 17, 2021 13:21:06 GMT -5
Couldn't you just tell us? Not everyone wants to read through this 265 page thread. To address the locking on and delays mentioned it derives from the latest firmware where the hdmi is forced to renegotiate ; last page gives an idea.. emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1078895/threadsnaps/white noise and codec swapping anomalies have a longer history for some .. Thanks. Those posts talk about it not switching input channels and having to select the input 2 times to get it to switch. In my case, it is switching ok but does a double take playing the audio, so I’m not sure it’s the same issue. As I’m writing this, it hasn’t happened this morning so far, I’m not doing anything different AFAIK, for days it did double takes on audio, so I don’t know the condition that triggers it. |
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Post by cwt on Sept 17, 2021 21:43:43 GMT -5
Thanks. Those posts talk about it not switching input channels and having to select the input 2 times to get it to switch. In my case, it is switching ok but does a double take playing the audio, so I’m not sure it’s the same issue. As I’m writing this, it hasn’t happened this morning so far, I’m not doing anything different AFAIK, for days it did double takes on audio, so I don’t know the condition that triggers it. It seemed to corelate -your double take playing the audio with 2.3's programmed second edid handshake if its an accurate picture of what Audiohtit said here emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1078889/threadbut I could be off the mark certainly |
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Post by hsamwel on Sept 17, 2021 22:49:57 GMT -5
To address the locking on and delays mentioned it derives from the latest firmware where the hdmi is forced to renegotiate ; last page gives an idea.. emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1078895/threadsnaps/white noise and codec swapping anomalies have a longer history for some .. Thanks. Those posts talk about it not switching input channels and having to select the input 2 times to get it to switch. In my case, it is switching ok but does a double take playing the audio, so I’m not sure it’s the same issue. As I’m writing this, it hasn’t happened this morning so far, I’m not doing anything different AFAIK, for days it did double takes on audio, so I don’t know the condition that triggers it. I can confirm those double ”locking” with a sound break at each sound mode start. This also happens when you switch presets. This is a new ”feature” in 2.3. Never had this before.. These mode changes are also a lot slower than in previous firmwares. It’s actually little annoying when starting a sound track.. It takes atleast 3 seconds longer to get sound and then the double syncing with the break.. |
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Post by jbrunwa on Sept 18, 2021 11:42:28 GMT -5
Thanks. Those posts talk about it not switching input channels and having to select the input 2 times to get it to switch. In my case, it is switching ok but does a double take playing the audio, so I’m not sure it’s the same issue. As I’m writing this, it hasn’t happened this morning so far, I’m not doing anything different AFAIK, for days it did double takes on audio, so I don’t know the condition that triggers it. I can confirm those double ”locking” with a sound break at each sound mode start. This also happens when you switch presets. This is a new ”feature” in 2.3. Never had this before.. These mode changes are also a lot slower than in previous firmwares. It’s actually little annoying when starting a sound track.. It takes atleast 3 seconds longer to get sound and then the double syncing with the break.. Thanks for confirming this behavior. To hazard a guess, based on what i see on the front panel, maybe it attempts to use the last used mode for the channel, and then has to lock a second time using the mode that the source is actually sending. No idea why it doesn’t just look at the mode it’s receiving in the first place. At least, once it locks on the actual source mode, the playback is golden until the source mode changes. |
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Post by hsamwel on Sept 19, 2021 9:05:42 GMT -5
I can confirm those double ”locking” with a sound break at each sound mode start. This also happens when you switch presets. This is a new ”feature” in 2.3. Never had this before.. These mode changes are also a lot slower than in previous firmwares. It’s actually little annoying when starting a sound track.. It takes atleast 3 seconds longer to get sound and then the double syncing with the break.. Thanks for confirming this behavior. To hazard a guess, based on what i see on the front panel, maybe it attempts to use the last used mode for the channel, and then has to lock a second time using the mode that the source is actually sending. No idea why it doesn’t just look at the mode it’s receiving in the first place. At least, once it locks on the actual source mode, the playback is golden until the source mode changes. I think they have just added code to the previous way of locking on.. It resets and resyncs just because some had issues with the faster locking of previous firmwares. IMO this is not the way forward regarding fixing locking issues. Having longer lockon time, while worse, is not the end of everything.. But they really have to mute the first lockon.. Better yet, add an option for fast or slow HDMI sync in the setup. Personally 2.3 is a big step down.. I have had issues which I have not noticed since early firmwares. I have a lot och snaps and cracks (mostly snaps) on multi channel stuff. A lot longer HDMI syncing. With the sound breaking. Longer switching inputs because of this. But it seems to be longer on all inputs including non HDMI which is strange IMO. Some kind of issue with switching between TrueHD multi channel and DD 2.0. DD 2.0 having no sound. This could be a source issue though (Indiana Jones 4k europe). Have had the display and info show PCM 5.1/7.1 while the bluray player is sending bitstreamed DD/DTS signal. In this case it needs a complete resync. Stopping playback will not remove the PCM. It stays locked like this until I change to a new HDMI input and back. Have also had some kind of issue with atmos a couple of times. I started the movie from the disc menu and it didn’t change sound mode to atmos. Also the other way around. Displaying atmos but not TrueHD in the bitstream info. These could simply be a bug in the Display code. But still, new to 2.3 and could be connected to the resync/HDMI sound break issue. Edit: the volume has been inconsistant sometimes also. Stopping playback or doing a resync has changed the volume. |
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Post by jbrunwa on Sept 22, 2021 16:53:13 GMT -5
I can confirm those double ”locking” with a sound break at each sound mode start. This also happens when you switch presets. This is a new ”feature” in 2.3. Never had this before.. These mode changes are also a lot slower than in previous firmwares. It’s actually little annoying when starting a sound track.. It takes atleast 3 seconds longer to get sound and then the double syncing with the break.. Thanks for confirming this behavior. To hazard a guess, based on what i see on the front panel, maybe it attempts to use the last used mode for the channel, and then has to lock a second time using the mode that the source is actually sending. No idea why it doesn’t just look at the mode it’s receiving in the first place. At least, once it locks on the actual source mode, the playback is golden until the source mode changes. I sent videos of the behavior to Emotiva tech support, who replied this is normal expected behavior. I suppose I can live with it. |
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baku
Minor Hero
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Post by baku on Sept 22, 2021 22:01:15 GMT -5
I am curious regarding the implementation of the direct mode on XMC-2 and the "You CANNOT use Dirac Live" statement on the manual direct mode description.
My speakers levels are zeroed on the low level speakers setup menu. However, due to the gain difference between my ceiling/back speakers vs fronts/centers/surrounds the levels for latest are at very low mark throughout the dirac volume setup -11 dB. So when I switch from speakers 1 - dirac levels applied with 0 on the main speakers levels setup menu, to speakers 2 - 0 on the speakers setup menu with no dirac profile, I get a huge gain difference.
Now switching the direct mode on/off on the speakers 1 with dirac profile applied I get the same dirac corrected low gain - much lower than the speakers 2 setup.
Does this means that dirac is actually engaged with the direct mode, or does this means that dirac speakers level correction is actually a low level domain setting that is engaged whatsoever but no actual room correction curves are applied ?
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Post by ElectricKoolAid on Sept 23, 2021 8:09:48 GMT -5
Thanks for confirming this behavior. To hazard a guess, based on what i see on the front panel, maybe it attempts to use the last used mode for the channel, and then has to lock a second time using the mode that the source is actually sending. No idea why it doesn’t just look at the mode it’s receiving in the first place. At least, once it locks on the actual source mode, the playback is golden until the source mode changes. I sent videos of the behavior to Emotiva tech support, who replied this is normal expected behavior. I suppose I can live with it. I work in tech support, so I get it, but...it seems to me like "normal expected behavior" is an careful choice of words. I don't feel like this should or would ever be considered "normal behavior", but given the state of things at this point, it is normal expected behavior since this has been an ongoing problem...not trying to be too harsh here and I know it's probably not an easy fix by any means but to call it normal behavior seems a bit disingenuous to me... |
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Post by bitzerjdb on Sept 23, 2021 8:19:46 GMT -5
I'm a bit confused with the PCM 5.1 issue with my RMC-1l. If the source (Netflix) is sending 5.1 (most movies only list that flag), is PCM 5.1 the right message, or should it say something else (Dolby 5.1). Is this an accurate stream, or does it need to be changed? My assumption is that it is the correct data stream (meaning all the bits are there) and the processor can process it (similiar to getting a 5.1 stream after the player does the decoding).
Lately, the sound from Netflix has been hit or miss, I'm not sure if it is a source issue, or if my decoding is off.
The problem is that this is noticed when the movie starts and the family is not very receptive to me pausing it and screwing around with the input switching routine.
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ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,168
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Post by ttocs on Sept 23, 2021 8:49:11 GMT -5
I'm a bit confused with the PCM 5.1 issue with my RMC-1l. If the source (Netflix) is sending 5.1 (most movies only list that flag), is PCM 5.1 the right message, or should it say something else (Dolby 5.1). Is this an accurate stream, or does it need to be changed? My assumption is that it is the correct data stream (meaning all the bits are there) and the processor can process it (similiar to getting a 5.1 stream after the player does the decoding). Lately, the sound from Netflix has been hit or miss, I'm not sure if it is a source issue, or if my decoding is off. The problem is that this is noticed when the movie starts and the family is not very receptive to me pausing it and screwing around with the input switching routine. When streaming a movie for a Movie Night!, I'll test the movies before showtime just to be sure that the audio will be ok. I've come across the same source movie being screwy on one device and good on another, this is why I check every movie now. One movie sounded like it was coming from a kazoo when using TiVo EDGE as the streamer, but Apple TV worked great, same source - Amazon Prime. Sometimes it's better with the TiVo. This is not an isolated incident. Discs always work. |
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Post by doc1963 on Sept 23, 2021 9:10:22 GMT -5
I'm a bit confused with the PCM 5.1 issue with my RMC-1l. If the source (Netflix) is sending 5.1 (most movies only list that flag), is PCM 5.1 the right message, or should it say something else (Dolby 5.1). Is this an accurate stream, or does it need to be changed? My assumption is that it is the correct data stream (meaning all the bits are there) and the processor can process it (similiar to getting a 5.1 stream after the player does the decoding). Lately, the sound from Netflix has been hit or miss, I'm not sure if it is a source issue, or if my decoding is off. The problem is that this is noticed when the movie starts and the family is not very receptive to me pausing it and screwing around with the input switching routine. Netflix isn't the "source", but rather the content provider. You list multiple "source" components in your signature, so which source are you using when you encounter this issue...? I'm going to guess, since you're stating PCM 5.1, that it's your Apple TV 4K. Netflix uses DD+ (EAC3) to send audio which can be 5.1 or Atmos. If you're not set up for Atmos, you'll get 5.1. If you have an Atmos setup, your RMC-1L will say "TrueHD" (which is kinda wrong, it's receiving PCM with Atmos metadata in a Dolby MAT container). If you're not set up for Atmos, your RMC-1L should report PCM 5.1. However, if you have a 7.1 setup, DSU will kick in and there are known issues with the current version of DSU. Dolby has not yet released the "fixed" version. Personally, I choose DTS Neural:X as the preferred multichannel upmixer mode for my Apple TV input. I do this because, in my room, Neural:X gives me better results and avoids the "weirdness" of the current DSU. |
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