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Post by bitzerjdb on Sept 23, 2021 9:11:55 GMT -5
I'm a bit confused with the PCM 5.1 issue with my RMC-1l. If the source (Netflix) is sending 5.1 (most movies only list that flag), is PCM 5.1 the right message, or should it say something else (Dolby 5.1). Is this an accurate stream, or does it need to be changed? My assumption is that it is the correct data stream (meaning all the bits are there) and the processor can process it (similiar to getting a 5.1 stream after the player does the decoding). Lately, the sound from Netflix has been hit or miss, I'm not sure if it is a source issue, or if my decoding is off. The problem is that this is noticed when the movie starts and the family is not very receptive to me pausing it and screwing around with the input switching routine. When streaming a movie for a Movie Night!, I'll test the movies before showtime just to be sure that the audio will be ok. I've come across the same source movie being screwy on one device and good on another, this is why I check every movie now. One movie sounded like it was coming from a kazoo when using TiVo EDGE as the streamer, but Apple TV worked great, same source - Amazon Prime. Sometimes it's better with the TiVo. This is not an isolated incident. Discs always work. Friday is Streaming, Saturday is the Disk... The Disk always sounds better, even with poor quality disks. I stopped using the TIVO Netflix app, it was very inconsistent. I'm using my AppleTV 4K as the streamer and it has been pretty rock solid. I wish I could test the sound before the movie, just getting the movie chosen is worse than herding cats in our household. |
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Post by bitzerjdb on Sept 23, 2021 9:21:07 GMT -5
I'm a bit confused with the PCM 5.1 issue with my RMC-1l. If the source (Netflix) is sending 5.1 (most movies only list that flag), is PCM 5.1 the right message, or should it say something else (Dolby 5.1). Is this an accurate stream, or does it need to be changed? My assumption is that it is the correct data stream (meaning all the bits are there) and the processor can process it (similiar to getting a 5.1 stream after the player does the decoding). Lately, the sound from Netflix has been hit or miss, I'm not sure if it is a source issue, or if my decoding is off. The problem is that this is noticed when the movie starts and the family is not very receptive to me pausing it and screwing around with the input switching routine. Netflix isn't the "source", but rather the content provider. You list multiple "source" components in your signature, so which source are you using when you encounter this issue...? I'm going to guess, since you're stating PCM 5.1, that it's your Apple TV 4K. Netflix uses DD+ (EAC3) to send audio which can be 5.1 or Atmos. If you're not set up for Atmos, you'll get 5.1. If you have an Atmos setup, your RMC-1L will say "TrueHD" (which is kinda wrong, it's receiving PCM with Atmos metadata in a Dolby MAT container). If you're not set up for Atmos, your RMC-1L should report PCM 5.1. However, if you have a 7.1 setup, DSU will kick in and there are known issues with the current version of DSU. Dolby has not yet released the "fixed" version. Personally, I choose DTS Neural:X as the preferred multichannel upmixer mode for my Apple TV input. I do this because, in my room, Neural:X gives me better results and avoids the "weirdness" of the current DSU. Yes, it's from the AppleTV 4K and it's a 7.1 system. The typical behavior is a very weak center channel and way too much subwoofer output. Disks are fine... and they use the same input. If the movie is tagged with Atmos, I see the behavior you mention above. My frustration comes from the comment...Why don't you just use the Soundbar (Sonos ARC), that sounds great... and you know what, they are right, same data stream, and it sounds much better through the soundbar, and the soundbar reports DD 5.1. I'm just confused what is right and what is wrong :-( |
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Post by doc1963 on Sept 23, 2021 9:49:58 GMT -5
Netflix isn't the "source", but rather the content provider. You list multiple "source" components in your signature, so which source are you using when you encounter this issue...? I'm going to guess, since you're stating PCM 5.1, that it's your Apple TV 4K. Netflix uses DD+ (EAC3) to send audio which can be 5.1 or Atmos. If you're not set up for Atmos, you'll get 5.1. If you have an Atmos setup, your RMC-1L will say "TrueHD" (which is kinda wrong, it's receiving PCM with Atmos metadata in a Dolby MAT container). If you're not set up for Atmos, your RMC-1L should report PCM 5.1. However, if you have a 7.1 setup, DSU will kick in and there are known issues with the current version of DSU. Dolby has not yet released the "fixed" version. Personally, I choose DTS Neural:X as the preferred multichannel upmixer mode for my Apple TV input. I do this because, in my room, Neural:X gives me better results and avoids the "weirdness" of the current DSU. Yes, it's from the AppleTV 4K and it's a 7.1 system. The typical behavior is a very weak center channel and way too much subwoofer output. Disks are fine... and they use the same input. If the movie is tagged with Atmos, I see the behavior you mention above. My frustration comes from the comment...Why don't you just use the Soundbar (Sonos ARC), that sounds great... and you know what, they are right, same data stream, and it sounds much better through the soundbar, and the soundbar reports DD 5.1. I'm just confused what is right and what is wrong :-( When you're using your soundbar, I'm assuming that you're streaming Netflix using ARC from your internal TV app (?) since you're saying that your soundbar is reporting "DD 5.1". The AppleTV does all of its "decoding" internally and outputs PCM (5.1, 7.1 or Atmos using Dolby MAT). I'm a bit confused when you say that " disks are fine... and they use the same input". An Apple TV cannot play discs and doesn't have an HDMI input to support that function externally, so some clarity might be needed here. As for the inflated bass, are you using the 2.3 firmware on your RMC-1L...? If so, that is likely the source of that problem and a fix is in the works. The weak center channel could be the faulty DSU at play or could be something else entirely. I'd suggest trying the Neural:X upmixer with your AppleTV and see if that yields better (or more predictable) results. If it does, and if you like the results, you can set this up as a "5.0 Mode" default for your AppleTV's HDMI input on your RMC-1L. |
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Post by hsamwel on Sept 23, 2021 11:44:25 GMT -5
Thanks for confirming this behavior. To hazard a guess, based on what i see on the front panel, maybe it attempts to use the last used mode for the channel, and then has to lock a second time using the mode that the source is actually sending. No idea why it doesn’t just look at the mode it’s receiving in the first place. At least, once it locks on the actual source mode, the playback is golden until the source mode changes. I sent videos of the behavior to Emotiva tech support, who replied this is normal expected behavior. I suppose I can live with it. Haha the normal answer from Emotiva. They almost never admit doing anything wrong until some heavy weight point it out to them. Or too many nag them.. Just look at the DTS Neural:X issue how long it dragged out. Just because many told them they hear no wrongs. In the end they found bugs and the feature was fixed. IMO they should strive for making the perfect product instead. Any behaviour a customer feels is out of place or is obviously wrong should be tried to be fixed or improved up on. Not a BS answer like you got.. Normal behavior? Normal for who? Only Emotiva then.. Everyone else would have fixed this before releasing the firmware. The answer you should have got is: ”Yes, we are aware of this issue and we are working on a solution probably for the next firmware”. Same goes for the snapping and cracking.. People can actually hurt their speakers if played too loud. They need to release point fixes more often that directly address issues like these. 2.3.1, 2.3.2 and so on.. Concentrate on fixing one thing at a time. As it is now they fix 2-3 things and add a couple of new bugs with each firmware release. |
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Post by bitzerjdb on Sept 23, 2021 11:56:10 GMT -5
Yes, it's from the AppleTV 4K and it's a 7.1 system. The typical behavior is a very weak center channel and way too much subwoofer output. Disks are fine... and they use the same input. If the movie is tagged with Atmos, I see the behavior you mention above. My frustration comes from the comment...Why don't you just use the Soundbar (Sonos ARC), that sounds great... and you know what, they are right, same data stream, and it sounds much better through the soundbar, and the soundbar reports DD 5.1. I'm just confused what is right and what is wrong :-( When you're using your soundbar, I'm assuming that you're streaming Netflix using ARC from your internal TV app (?) since you're saying that your soundbar is reporting "DD 5.1". The AppleTV does all of its "decoding" internally and outputs PCM (5.1, 7.1 or Atmos using Dolby MAT). I'm a bit confused when you say that " disks are fine... and they use the same input". An Apple TV cannot play discs and doesn't have an HDMI input to support that function externally, so some clarity might be needed here. As for the inflated bass, are you using the 2.3 firmware on your RMC-1L...? If so, that is likely the source of that problem and a fix is in the works. The weak center channel could be the faulty DSU at play or could be something else entirely. I'd suggest trying the Neural:X upmixer with your AppleTV and see if that yields better (or more predictable) results. If it does, and if you like the results, you can set this up as a "5.0 Mode" default for your AppleTV's HDMI input on your RMC-1L. I have already reduced the Bass in the system. Disks via my Blu-Ray player are fine. I use a single input on the RMC due to using an external video switch. I might use the second output from the switch and setup a second input on the RMC and do what you suggested. But... If the Apple TV outputs PCM 5.1, 7.1 or Atmos), then the PCM 5.1 Input reported by the RMC is correct. If so, this may just be the DSU issue at play. This crap is getting way too complicated :-) Thanks for the help (Everyone!) |
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Post by doc1963 on Sept 23, 2021 12:17:35 GMT -5
When you're using your soundbar, I'm assuming that you're streaming Netflix using ARC from your internal TV app (?) since you're saying that your soundbar is reporting "DD 5.1". The AppleTV does all of its "decoding" internally and outputs PCM (5.1, 7.1 or Atmos using Dolby MAT). I'm a bit confused when you say that " disks are fine... and they use the same input". An Apple TV cannot play discs and doesn't have an HDMI input to support that function externally, so some clarity might be needed here. As for the inflated bass, are you using the 2.3 firmware on your RMC-1L...? If so, that is likely the source of that problem and a fix is in the works. The weak center channel could be the faulty DSU at play or could be something else entirely. I'd suggest trying the Neural:X upmixer with your AppleTV and see if that yields better (or more predictable) results. If it does, and if you like the results, you can set this up as a "5.0 Mode" default for your AppleTV's HDMI input on your RMC-1L. I have already reduced the Bass in the system. Disks via my Blu-Ray player are fine. I use a single input on the RMC due to using an external video switch. I might use the second output from the switch and setup a second input on the RMC and do what you suggested. But... If the Apple TV outputs PCM 5.1, 7.1 or Atmos), then the PCM 5.1 Input reported by the RMC is correct. If so, this may just be the DSU issue at play. This crap is getting way too complicated :-) Thanks for the help (Everyone!) Ahhh... an external switch... now I get it...  And yes, your RMC-1L reporting that it's receiving 5.1 (or 7.1) PCM from your Apple TV is correct behavior. Reporting "TrueHD" when receiving Atmos metadata from the AppleTV would also be expected (albeit not entirely accurate) behavior. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Sept 23, 2021 12:25:15 GMT -5
I have already reduced the Bass in the system. Disks via my Blu-Ray player are fine. I use a single input on the RMC due to using an external video switch. I might use the second output from the switch and setup a second input on the RMC and do what you suggested. But... If the Apple TV outputs PCM 5.1, 7.1 or Atmos), then the PCM 5.1 Input reported by the RMC is correct. If so, this may just be the DSU issue at play. This crap is getting way too complicated :-) Thanks for the help (Everyone!) Ahhh... an external switch... now I get it... And yes, your RMC-1L reporting that it's receiving 5.1 (or 7.1) PCM from your Apple TV is correct behavior. Reporting "TrueHD" when receiving Atmos metadata from the AppleTV would also be expected (albeit not entirely accurate) behavior. Doc...hate to hijack, but can you give a quick step-by-step lesson on how to set Neural-X with Apple TV 4K and the XMC-2? |
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Post by doc1963 on Sept 23, 2021 12:36:02 GMT -5
Ahhh... an external switch... now I get it... And yes, your RMC-1L reporting that it's receiving 5.1 (or 7.1) PCM from your Apple TV is correct behavior. Reporting "TrueHD" when receiving Atmos metadata from the AppleTV would also be expected (albeit not entirely accurate) behavior. Doc...hate to hijack, but can you give a quick step-by-step lesson on how to set Neural-X with Apple TV 4K and the XMC-2? Sure... If you'd just like to test it out (without making it a default), simply change the decoding mode to "DTS Neural:X". You can do this on the fly from your remote. If you like the results and want to make it the default, go to the "Input" setup menu, then go to the HDMI input that your AppleTV is using. Then, change the "5.0" mode from "Auto" (which is the factory default and will always select DSU) to DTS Neural:X. You can do the same for the "2.0" mode if you wish. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Sept 23, 2021 12:40:27 GMT -5
Doc...hate to hijack, but can you give a quick step-by-step lesson on how to set Neural-X with Apple TV 4K and the XMC-2? Sure... If you'd just like to test it out (without making it a default), simply change the decoding mode to "DTS Neural:X". You can do this on the fly from your remote. If you like the results and want to make it the default, go to the "Input" setup menu, then go to the HDMI input that your AppleTV is using. Then, change the "5.0" mode from "Auto" (which is the factory default and will always select DSU) to DTS Neural:X. You can do the same for the "2.0" mode if you wish. Thanks! Will play with this tonight. |
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Post by jbrunwa on Sept 23, 2021 14:25:49 GMT -5
I sent videos of the behavior to Emotiva tech support, who replied this is normal expected behavior. I suppose I can live with it. I work in tech support, so I get it, but...it seems to me like "normal expected behavior" is an careful choice of words. I don't feel like this should or would ever be considered "normal behavior", but given the state of things at this point, it is normal expected behavior since this has been an ongoing problem...not trying to be too harsh here and I know it's probably not an easy fix by any means but to call it normal behavior seems a bit disingenuous to me... I understand and agree that an AVR should immediately detect what codec its receiving and adjust. The snaps haven’t been anything but a slight annoyance for me, as we don’t listen at reference levels. Our Denon AVR doesn’t have any issue recognizing the audio signal changes and very rarely snaps and neither did the Onkyo. So it is obviously possible to design an AVR without these issues. Since we have apparently established that SINAD is not the determining factor in sound quality, but the ability to operate reliably and support different audio modes with Dirac Live EQ that determines sound quality, I suspect that if the anticipated Onkyo AVR materializes in 2022 with DL at the $2000 price point and an additional $500 for DLBC, that the market for buggy $3K to 5K prepros that do not support all the surround modes and without DLBC will seriously erode. |
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Post by ElectricKoolAid on Sept 23, 2021 14:38:01 GMT -5
I work in tech support, so I get it, but...it seems to me like "normal expected behavior" is an careful choice of words. I don't feel like this should or would ever be considered "normal behavior", but given the state of things at this point, it is normal expected behavior since this has been an ongoing problem...not trying to be too harsh here and I know it's probably not an easy fix by any means but to call it normal behavior seems a bit disingenuous to me... I understand and agree that an AVR should immediately detect what codec its receiving and adjust. The snaps haven’t been anything but a slight annoyance for me, as we don’t listen at reference levels. Our Denon AVR doesn’t have any issue recognizing the audio signal changes and very rarely snaps and neither did the Onkyo. So it is obviously possible to design an AVR without these issues. Since we have apparently established that SINAD is not the determining factor in sound quality, but the ability to operate reliably and support different audio modes with Dirac Live EQ that determines sound quality, I suspect that if the anticipated Onkyo AVR with DL at the $2000 price point and an additional $500 for DLBC that the market for buggy $3K to 5K prepros that do not have DLBC will seriously erode. I agree - the main reason for me choosing the XMC-2 was that previously I had a wonky setup in order to be able to use Dirac... Nvidia Shield > MiniDSP NanoAVR-DL > HDMI A/V Extractor From the Extractor, one HDMI went to my $250 Pioneer receiver and one to my TVs HDMI input. This was so I could still watch 4K HDR content (since the MiniDSP NanoAVR didn't support HDMI 2.0) but still have Dirac live. At the time I was on a pretty tight budget and there were pretty much no options for Dirac around the $1000 price point. So when I found the Emotiva XMC-2, it seemed like the most future proof processor with everything I was looking for, at a more affordable price than anything else on the market. But still, the price was a very steep step up from my old setup. I was excited to get rid of the audio extractor and NanoAVR from my signal path and keep everything in one box essentially. One issue I would have is that the audio extractor would mess up the video when I turned everything on (sometimes) so everything would be all blurry and pixelated. I'd have to unplug it and plug it back in for the HDMI to sync correctly and then everything would work. I figured moving to a higher end processor would mean things would "just work" as far as HDMI sync/handshake and all of that. Unfortunately I think I had a better track record with the old setup as far as audio/video just working when I started everything up (both using CEC). I try not to be too critical and give the benefit of the doubt but so far have had many issues... |
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Post by jbrunwa on Sept 23, 2021 17:17:35 GMT -5
I understand and agree that an AVR should immediately detect what codec its receiving and adjust. The snaps haven’t been anything but a slight annoyance for me, as we don’t listen at reference levels. Our Denon AVR doesn’t have any issue recognizing the audio signal changes and very rarely snaps and neither did the Onkyo. So it is obviously possible to design an AVR without these issues. Since we have apparently established that SINAD is not the determining factor in sound quality, but the ability to operate reliably and support different audio modes with Dirac Live EQ that determines sound quality, I suspect that if the anticipated Onkyo AVR with DL at the $2000 price point and an additional $500 for DLBC that the market for buggy $3K to 5K prepros that do not have DLBC will seriously erode. I agree - the main reason for me choosing the XMC-2 was that previously I had a wonky setup in order to be able to use Dirac... Nvidia Shield > MiniDSP NanoAVR-DL > HDMI A/V Extractor From the Extractor, one HDMI went to my $250 Pioneer receiver and one to my TVs HDMI input. This was so I could still watch 4K HDR content (since the MiniDSP NanoAVR didn't support HDMI 2.0) but still have Dirac live. At the time I was on a pretty tight budget and there were pretty much no options for Dirac around the $1000 price point. So when I found the Emotiva XMC-2, it seemed like the most future proof processor with everything I was looking for, at a more affordable price than anything else on the market. But still, the price was a very steep step up from my old setup. I was excited to get rid of the audio extractor and NanoAVR from my signal path and keep everything in one box essentially. One issue I would have is that the audio extractor would mess up the video when I turned everything on (sometimes) so everything would be all blurry and pixelated. I'd have to unplug it and plug it back in for the HDMI to sync correctly and then everything would work. I figured moving to a higher end processor would mean things would "just work" as far as HDMI sync/handshake and all of that. Unfortunately I think I had a better track record with the old setup as far as audio/video just working when I started everything up (both using CEC). I try not to be too critical and give the benefit of the doubt but so far have had many issues... I continue to want to support USA manufacturers. It must be a really hard to make an AVR these days. I would still be using my old B&K Reference 50 if not for the new video and audio modes. But I will be staying with my XMC-2 and keeping my fingers crossed for improvements over the coming year. |
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Post by ElectricKoolAid on Sept 24, 2021 9:15:34 GMT -5
I definitely like supporting USA manufacturers as well. I would love to see these processors be the ideal version of themselves, and I know sometimes the only way to get there is continual discussion - as someone in IT it's generally the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. One, because that usually means this issue is impacting a lot of our users, and two, because we get tired of hearing about it  |
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Post by hsamwel on Sept 24, 2021 13:07:14 GMT -5
I'm a bit confused with the PCM 5.1 issue with my RMC-1l. If the source (Netflix) is sending 5.1 (most movies only list that flag), is PCM 5.1 the right message, or should it say something else (Dolby 5.1). Is this an accurate stream, or does it need to be changed? My assumption is that it is the correct data stream (meaning all the bits are there) and the processor can process it (similiar to getting a 5.1 stream after the player does the decoding). Lately, the sound from Netflix has been hit or miss, I'm not sure if it is a source issue, or if my decoding is off. The problem is that this is noticed when the movie starts and the family is not very receptive to me pausing it and screwing around with the input switching routine. Netflix isn't the "source", but rather the content provider. You list multiple "source" components in your signature, so which source are you using when you encounter this issue...? I'm going to guess, since you're stating PCM 5.1, that it's your Apple TV 4K. Netflix uses DD+ (EAC3) to send audio which can be 5.1 or Atmos. If you're not set up for Atmos, you'll get 5.1. If you have an Atmos setup, your RMC-1L will say "TrueHD" (which is kinda wrong, it's receiving PCM with Atmos metadata in a Dolby MAT container). If you're not set up for Atmos, your RMC-1L should report PCM 5.1. However, if you have a 7.1 setup, DSU will kick in and there are known issues with the current version of DSU. Dolby has not yet released the "fixed" version. Personally, I choose DTS Neural:X as the preferred multichannel upmixer mode for my Apple TV input. I do this because, in my room, Neural:X gives me better results and avoids the "weirdness" of the current DSU. Yes, TrueHD is sooo wrong it hurts.. They told me Dolby requires them to display TrueHD on the bitstream info. Why I asked. Got an answer on ASR that this is NOT correct. Yes, ”MAT” is actually not allowed.. But they can show "Atmos Multichannel PCM" or ”PCM with Atmos”. Showing "TrueHD" is Emotiva's own choice and it is wrong. The actual source isn’t even TrueHD from the beginning. |
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Post by hsamwel on Sept 26, 2021 3:53:02 GMT -5
Watch the XMC-2 vs Anthem AVM70 comparison by Spec Of Tech on Youtube. Not as positive for Emotiva, even though sound quality is great. I agree fully regarding UI comments by him. Even though I haven’t had the issues he had I have others with 2.3. youtu.be/Fd3dQjBFC4gWhen reading comments below it’s not good PR for Emotiva. IMO I think the UI designers at Emotiva underestimate the importance of a good and smooth UI. Major bugs stopping actual usage are of course even worse. Here Emotiva aren’t alone though. But the difference being time to get these bugs fixed. Actually anything regarding coding the processors take like forever. After three (almost) years it feels like they are still working on the basics… Here in Sweden we will have a review of the RMC-1 for the first time in the next issue of ”Hemmabiotidningen” (Home Theater Paper). Will be a truly interesting read when they compare it to Marantz, Yamaha and the likes.. |
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Post by jbrunwa on Sept 26, 2021 12:15:37 GMT -5
Watch the XMC-2 vs Anthem AVM70 comparison by Spec Of Tech on Youtube. Not as positive for Emotiva, even though sound quality is great. I agree fully regarding UI comments by him. Even though I haven’t had the issues he had I have others with 2.3. youtu.be/Fd3dQjBFC4gWhen reading comments below it’s not good PR for Emotiva. IMO I think the UI designers at Emotiva underestimate the importance of a good and smooth UI. Major bugs stopping actual usage are of course even worse. Here Emotiva aren’t alone though. But the difference being time to get these bugs fixed. Actually anything regarding coding the processors take like forever. After three (almost) years it feels like they are still working on the basics… Here in Sweden we will have a review of the RMC-1 for the first time in the next issue of ”Hemmabiotidningen” (Home Theater Paper). Will be a truly interesting read when they compare it to Marantz, Yamaha and the likes.. Not having tried the Anthem, but for the XMC-2 coverage the review seems pretty accurate. Once you have gone through all the setup and it’s working with a given set of components, it works pretty well. The reviewers perspectives seem accurate on UI, bugs, cumbersome setup and state of product after being in production for a few years. Any differences in sound between the two brands are likely to be inaudible with the exception of the current elevated base management issue in the XMC-2. I don’t care that there is not auto firmware update over internet. After some months I have found a config at my home that is finally working reliably, and I’m enjoying my system and I’m not inclined to make any changes including firmware upgrades until others have blazed the path and the dust has settled. |
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 890
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Post by richb on Sept 26, 2021 12:45:22 GMT -5
Watch the XMC-2 vs Anthem AVM70 comparison by Spec Of Tech on Youtube. Not as positive for Emotiva, even though sound quality is great. I agree fully regarding UI comments by him. Even though I haven’t had the issues he had I have others with 2.3. youtu.be/Fd3dQjBFC4gWhen reading comments below it’s not good PR for Emotiva. IMO I think the UI designers at Emotiva underestimate the importance of a good and smooth UI. Major bugs stopping actual usage are of course even worse. Here Emotiva aren’t alone though. But the difference being time to get these bugs fixed. Actually anything regarding coding the processors take like forever. After three (almost) years it feels like they are still working on the basics… Here in Sweden we will have a review of the RMC-1 for the first time in the next issue of ”Hemmabiotidningen” (Home Theater Paper). Will be a truly interesting read when they compare it to Marantz, Yamaha and the likes.. The reviewer experience with Dirac seems to be out of the ordinary. It seems like something is wrong, listening at -60 means that there is way too much gain that is later reduced. However, after reset Dirac should have worked. The listening sessions are difficult to judge, but it seemed like the music was not as compressed sounding on the XMC-2 but the reviewer consistently picked the Anthem. The operational issues are still an area that could be addressed. In the future, I think Emotiva should continue to support OSD but replace OSM (On Screen Menus) with a browser interface. I'll bet it ends up costing less. - Rich |
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 890
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Post by richb on Sept 26, 2021 12:47:01 GMT -5
Watch the XMC-2 vs Anthem AVM70 comparison by Spec Of Tech on Youtube. Not as positive for Emotiva, even though sound quality is great. I agree fully regarding UI comments by him. Even though I haven’t had the issues he had I have others with 2.3. youtu.be/Fd3dQjBFC4gWhen reading comments below it’s not good PR for Emotiva. IMO I think the UI designers at Emotiva underestimate the importance of a good and smooth UI. Major bugs stopping actual usage are of course even worse. Here Emotiva aren’t alone though. But the difference being time to get these bugs fixed. Actually anything regarding coding the processors take like forever. After three (almost) years it feels like they are still working on the basics… Here in Sweden we will have a review of the RMC-1 for the first time in the next issue of ”Hemmabiotidningen” (Home Theater Paper). Will be a truly interesting read when they compare it to Marantz, Yamaha and the likes.. Not having tried the Anthem, but for the XMC-2 coverage the review seems pretty accurate. Once you have gone through all the setup and it’s working with a given set of components, it works pretty well. The reviewers perspectives seem accurate on UI, bugs, cumbersome setup and state of product after being in production for a few years. Any differences in sound between the two brands are likely to be inaudible with the exception of the current elevated base management issue in the XMC-2. I don’t care that there is not auto firmware update over internet. After some months I have found a config at my home that is finally working reliably, and I’m enjoying my system and I’m not inclined to make any changes including firmware upgrades until others have blazed the path and the dust has settled. Agreed. I don't think USB firmware update is an issue at all. I don't want automatic updates on this type of product. Those should be planned... - Rich |
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Post by hsamwel on Sept 26, 2021 16:58:47 GMT -5
Not having tried the Anthem, but for the XMC-2 coverage the review seems pretty accurate. Once you have gone through all the setup and it’s working with a given set of components, it works pretty well. The reviewers perspectives seem accurate on UI, bugs, cumbersome setup and state of product after being in production for a few years. Any differences in sound between the two brands are likely to be inaudible with the exception of the current elevated base management issue in the XMC-2. I don’t care that there is not auto firmware update over internet. After some months I have found a config at my home that is finally working reliably, and I’m enjoying my system and I’m not inclined to make any changes including firmware upgrades until others have blazed the path and the dust has settled. Agreed. I don't think USB firmware update is an issue at all. I don't want automatic updates on this type of product. Those should be planned... - Rich Yeah, I agree.. Network updates aren’t super important.. But that’s also because we get updates about three to four times a year. If Emotiva would have released point fixes often then it would have become an issue. Btw network updates does not mean automatic. It should still be downloaded first and then decided by the user when he/she wants to do the update. Could be downloaded automatically and then inform the user that there is an update available. Just like my iphone/ipad. Having the updates done from the network doesn’t make it more risky than from USB btw.. Just about every every device these days does updates over the network. Emotiva being the exception. Seeing the amount of bricked processors here on the forum I guess it’s proven network updates can’t be worse.  |
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 890
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Post by richb on Sept 26, 2021 17:09:25 GMT -5
Agreed. I don't think USB firmware update is an issue at all. I don't want automatic updates on this type of product. Those should be planned... - Rich Yeah, I agree.. Network updates aren’t super important.. But that’s also because we get updates about three to four times a year. If Emotiva would have released point fixes often then it would have become an issue. Btw network updates does not mean automatic. It should still be downloaded first and then decided by the user when he/she wants to do the update. Could be downloaded automatically and then inform the user that there is an update available. Just like my iphone/ipad. Having the updates done from the network doesn’t make it more risky than from USB btw.. Just about every every device these days does updates over the network. Emotiva being the exception. Seeing the amount of bricked processors here on the forum I guess it’s proven network updates can’t be worse. That is true. I have not kept track, but it seems like firmware updates are more problematic with the XMC-2 than the RMC-1s. The Monoprice HTP-1 have a fix now for units getting bricked when there is a loss of power. That is far worse than any firmware update. The JBL SDP-55 and Arcams take forever to update, I'd say Emotiva is doing well in this regard. - Rich |
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