|
|
Post by markc on Dec 7, 2021 5:47:24 GMT -5
Netflix from an Nvidia Shield sends UHD/HDR/Atmos(DD+). My Panasonic UHD player also has Netflix but it only sends UHD/HDR/DD+5.1. Point being that the Netflix apps behave differently on different platforms so don't necessarily read anything from this into the behaviour of the AV processor. Yes, most know this.. However, the problem is that Netflix with Atmos on ARC works to other devices. So if you have a soundbar, Denon/Marantz AVR or whatever you’ll get Atmos. With Emotiva Netflix somehow does not detect Emotiva as a Atmos capable device. The most strange part is that other apps on the same TV output Atmos. This is correct - My Samsung TV correctly outputs Atmos over ARC to a Marantz processor, but switch the HDMI cable to the XMC-2 and the XMC-2 only sees Dolby Digital + |
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Dec 7, 2021 7:15:00 GMT -5
ttocs , hsamwel is correct. Dolby Digital Plus is always 20bit and should report as such. Your XMC-2 is reporting that correctly. I also concur that your TiVo should not be reporting “16bit” if it is a true unadulterated DD+ bitstream. FWIW, when my RMC-1L was active in my system (just a month or two ago), I also could not receive Atmos via Netflix when streaming via ARC from my LG CX’s internal app. All other internal apps that support Atmos (Disney+, Prime, Movies Anywhere and Vudu for example) worked just fine. When viewing Netflix from my Nvidia Shield (set to bitstream the audio), Atmos worked properly and my RMC-1L reported receiving “DD+” and at the correct 20bits. That configuration was working correctly and exactly as expected. Since the ATV does not bitstream raw audio, I’ll leave it out of the discussion. However, now that I have my AV8805 back in my system (for other reasons), Netflix streamed from my LG now works exactly as it should. “Atmos” is displayed in the Netflix GUI and is being received by the 8805. The only change here was the processor. So, apparently there’s an issue with the EDID that is being published by the XMC/RMC that the internal Netflix app on these TVs does not like. It may have “something” to do with eARC, but since Dolby Digital Plus (with Atmos metadata) certainly can be carried over conventional ARC (and since all of the other apps send Atmos via ARC without issue) that theory wouldn’t make sense. But at the end of the day, Emotiva needs to consult with these parties, sort this out, and fix it. Don’t pull your hair out trying to figure it out yourself… you’ll just end up hairless… 😁 Btw.. After reading your post I got a little curious about the DD+ specs.. You wrote ”Dolby Digital Plus is always 20bit”. I remembered reading the format supports up to 24bit as well. So I found some info that it support 16bit and 24bit.. No mention of 20bit at all. But I know for a fact all streaming services use 20bit for their higher tiers. Actually had some problems finding info on supported bitdepth. Bitrate, sampling and channelsextensions support was no problem finding. Although found conflicting info on max channels supported. One site said 13.1 and another 15.1.. None of the sites were the official Dolby site. So I guess theoretically DD+ should support the full 16 channels including 6 overhead and front wides from the Atmos standard. Keith? Maybe you could chime in? |
|
|
|
Post by Stephen Park on Dec 7, 2021 9:34:18 GMT -5
This is what I've got from Emotiva support team by email.
I asked same question and provide detail concerning Netflix Atmos for TV ARC.
"Thanks for the detailed information, but the best I can do is to pass this along to my engineering team. I will report back with any suggestions they might have for you. In the meantime, if you need Atmos from Netflix, I suggest using an external streaming device for playback. Thanks"
Using external device ...
Hopefully, someone in the core get ring for this. Finger crossed.
|
|
|
|
Post by doc1963 on Dec 7, 2021 11:20:51 GMT -5
ttocs , hsamwel is correct. Dolby Digital Plus is always 20bit and should report as such. Your XMC-2 is reporting that correctly. I also concur that your TiVo should not be reporting “16bit” if it is a true unadulterated DD+ bitstream. FWIW, when my RMC-1L was active in my system (just a month or two ago), I also could not receive Atmos via Netflix when streaming via ARC from my LG CX’s internal app. All other internal apps that support Atmos (Disney+, Prime, Movies Anywhere and Vudu for example) worked just fine. When viewing Netflix from my Nvidia Shield (set to bitstream the audio), Atmos worked properly and my RMC-1L reported receiving “DD+” and at the correct 20bits. That configuration was working correctly and exactly as expected. Since the ATV does not bitstream raw audio, I’ll leave it out of the discussion. However, now that I have my AV8805 back in my system (for other reasons), Netflix streamed from my LG now works exactly as it should. “Atmos” is displayed in the Netflix GUI and is being received by the 8805. The only change here was the processor. So, apparently there’s an issue with the EDID that is being published by the XMC/RMC that the internal Netflix app on these TVs does not like. It may have “something” to do with eARC, but since Dolby Digital Plus (with Atmos metadata) certainly can be carried over conventional ARC (and since all of the other apps send Atmos via ARC without issue) that theory wouldn’t make sense. But at the end of the day, Emotiva needs to consult with these parties, sort this out, and fix it. Don’t pull your hair out trying to figure it out yourself… you’ll just end up hairless… 😁 Btw.. After reading your post I got a little curious about the DD+ specs.. You wrote ”Dolby Digital Plus is always 20bit”. I remembered reading the format supports up to 24bit as well. So I found some info that it support 16bit and 24bit.. No mention of 20bit at all. But I know for a fact all streaming services use 20bit for their higher tiers. Actually had some problems finding info on supported bitdepth. Bitrate, sampling and channelsextensions support was no problem finding. Although found conflicting info on max channels supported. One site said 13.1 and another 15.1.. None of the sites were the official Dolby site. So I guess theoretically DD+ should support the full 16 channels including 6 overhead and front wides from the Atmos standard. Keith? Maybe you could chime in? If I remember correctly (and I might not...), 24bit Dolby Digital Plus was typically used for physical media (namely HD-DVD... which was 24/48k) and 20bit was adopted for content streaming. These days, I only see DD+ when used with "streamed" content and have only seen it report as 20bit. I can't say that I've ever seen DD+ report as 16bit. But if the specs say it's possible, then it likely is...  |
|
|
|
Post by MrOptimism on Dec 7, 2021 18:20:52 GMT -5
I have an RMC-1 and one of my input sources is a Windows PC running KODI. What setup control would allow the video source (pc) to be on my flatscreen even if I change from HDMI 1 (KODI) to tuner or turntable etc? It was setup on my XMC-2 but I cannot remember the setting or seem to be unable to find it in the manual.
|
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Dec 7, 2021 19:10:25 GMT -5
Btw.. After reading your post I got a little curious about the DD+ specs.. You wrote ”Dolby Digital Plus is always 20bit”. I remembered reading the format supports up to 24bit as well. So I found some info that it support 16bit and 24bit.. No mention of 20bit at all. But I know for a fact all streaming services use 20bit for their higher tiers. Actually had some problems finding info on supported bitdepth. Bitrate, sampling and channelsextensions support was no problem finding. Although found conflicting info on max channels supported. One site said 13.1 and another 15.1.. None of the sites were the official Dolby site. So I guess theoretically DD+ should support the full 16 channels including 6 overhead and front wides from the Atmos standard. Keith? Maybe you could chime in? If I remember correctly (and I might not...), 24bit Dolby Digital Plus was typically used for physical media (namely HD-DVD... which was 24/48k) and 20bit was adopted for content streaming. These days, I only see DD+ when used with "streamed" content and have only seen it report as 20bit. I can't say that I've ever seen DD+ report as 16bit. But if the specs say it's possible, then it likely is... In europe we have some discs with DD+.. Specifically Disney discs.. The nordic countries, which don’t get Disney animated 4k releases, have the original english language in DD+ 7.1 and the others in legacy DD 5.1. Have been like this for the past 5-6 animated classics releases. We normally have 4-8 audio languages and 4-30 subtitles.. So there’s no room for TrueHD or DTS-HD MA for all spoken languages. This is for animated movies mostly. Only some countries dub the original languages. So for 4k or normal movies we get TrueHD/Atmos or DTS-HD MA/DTS:X. Just checked the nordic bluray Raya -The Last Dragon.. It’s DD+ 7.1 english audio stream is 48khz/20bit. |
|
|
|
Post by cwt on Dec 8, 2021 3:19:50 GMT -5
Just checked the nordic bluray Raya -The Last Dragon.. It’s DD+ 7.1 english audio stream is 48khz/20bit. I converted a lot of my hddvds to 1:1 m2ts files [because of disc rot with warner bros titles] and media info suggests both 16 and 20 bit dd+ for different titles Knocked up was 1536kbps 48.0 6ch dd+ as well as most others and Kiss kiss bang bang was lower bandwidth dd+ 6ch 640kbps 48.0 .. which lends credence to your finding of 16 and 24 bit depth . All my dolby truehd hddvds are 24 bit [about 7 of them] |
|
|
|
Post by zdoggz on Dec 9, 2021 8:30:39 GMT -5
I have a calibrator coming today that I had scheduled awhile ago thinking the bass management issue would have been resolved by now (ugh). From what I understand, this shouldn’t be an issue for the calibrator other than the bass sounding off at times. What exactly should I tell him about it (assuming he doesn’t know)? Ie - how should i best describe it to him?
|
|
ttocs
Global Moderator 
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,161
Member is Online
|
Post by ttocs on Dec 9, 2021 8:55:03 GMT -5
I have a calibrator coming today that I had scheduled awhile ago thinking the bass management issue would have been resolved by now (ugh). From what I understand, this shouldn’t be an issue for the calibrator other than the bass sounding off at times. What exactly should I tell him about it (assuming he doesn’t know)? Ie - how should i best describe it to him? Simply put, the Subwoofer bass below the crossover for Small channels is elevated vs the frequencies above the crossover. The calibrator will still be able to calibrate each channel individually. But when it comes to aligning the subwoofers for the bass below the crossover to transition to the Small channels above the crossover, the subwoofer Level will need to be lowered. Once the bug is fixed, this Level will need to be raised to "normal". I've got graphics that will instantly show what happens. Just tell me which setup you have and I'll post the graphic. Which firmware version is installed? Will Dirac be used? Which channels will be used, including Subwoofer channels and how the Subwoofer channels are designated (Mono, Dual Mono, LFE)? Which channels are Large? Which channels are Small? |
|
|
|
Post by zdoggz on Dec 9, 2021 9:43:40 GMT -5
Thank you!
Which firmware version is installed? 2.3
Will Dirac be used? Yes, as far as I know. He will be here soon, so I will confirm.
Which channels will be used, including Subwoofer channels and how the Subwoofer channels are designated (Mono, Dual Mono, LFE)? All 16 channels with the center sub set to Mono (using xlr splitter cable to split the output to my 2 sets of master/slave subwoofer pairs)
Which channels are Large? None (as of now)
Which channels are Small? All (as of now).
So simply speaking, if the artificially raised legs is 5dB, all that would need to be done is lower the sub level by 5db and then raise it back once corrected? Would this lowering need to be in addition to it being level matched w a meter or is the lowering in addition to the level matching (using the internal test tones for example). Much appreciated!
|
|
|
|
Post by zdoggz on Dec 9, 2021 9:44:09 GMT -5
Thank you!
Which firmware version is installed? 2.3
Will Dirac be used? Yes, as far as I know. He will be here soon, so I will confirm.
Which channels will be used, including Subwoofer channels and how the Subwoofer channels are designated (Mono, Dual Mono, LFE)? All 16 channels with the center sub set to Mono (using xlr splitter cable to split the output to my 2 sets of master/slave subwoofer pairs)
Which channels are Large? None (as of now)
Which channels are Small? All (as of now).
So simply speaking, if the artificially raised legs is 5dB, all that would need to be done is lower the sub level by 5db and then raise it back once corrected? Would this lowering need to be in addition to it being level matched w a meter or is the lowering in addition to the level matching (using the internal test tones for example). Much appreciated!
|
|
ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,161
Member is Online
|
Post by ttocs on Dec 9, 2021 10:07:45 GMT -5
Thank you! Which firmware version is installed? 2.3 Will Dirac be used? Yes, as far as I know. He will be here soon, so I will confirm. Which channels will be used, including Subwoofer channels and how the Subwoofer channels are designated (Mono, Dual Mono, LFE)? All 16 channels with the center sub set to Mono (using xlr splitter cable to split the output to my 2 sets of master/slave subwoofer pairs) Which channels are Large? None (as of now) Which channels are Small? All (as of now). Much appreciated! This is with Dirac enabled for the Surround audio mode. FW2.2 and 2.3 are very similar. The audio mode matters, and if you want to see some wacky stuff, turn the volume way down and switch over to All Stereo - the bass goes through the roof! Look at #3 for Center Sub Mono.  And here's a graphical representation of #3 with the crossover set for 200Hz. I used high XO settings to totally expose the issue when doing REW sweeps.  So what's going to happen is the Center Sub will need to be lowered in Levels a few dB, but this will also carry the LFE signal with it. So instead of the LFE signal being +10dB, it will be lower by however many dB the Center Sub is lowered by. In my case that equates to -3dB. |
|
|
|
Post by zdoggz on Dec 9, 2021 10:32:14 GMT -5
Thanks again! I will share this with my calibrator (ChadB). I mentioned it to him and we are considering leaving it elevated for the time being with the hopes that the new fw is released soon and corrects it. We were discussing the impact on the lfe as u mentioned but I guess it depends how elevated it will be in my case. Not sure yet but either way, this info is helpful!
|
|
ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,161
Member is Online
|
Post by ttocs on Dec 9, 2021 10:35:46 GMT -5
Thanks again! I will share this with my calibrator (ChadB). I mentioned it to him and we are considering leaving it elevated for the time being with the hopes that the new fw is released soon and corrects it. Not sure yet but either way, this info is helpful! Nick Burns, your company's computer guy  "ChadB" ? dB is in his name !! Very appropriate. |
|
|
|
Post by zdoggz on Dec 9, 2021 10:37:49 GMT -5
Thanks again! I will share this with my calibrator (ChadB). I mentioned it to him and we are considering leaving it elevated for the time being with the hopes that the new fw is released soon and corrects it. Not sure yet but either way, this info is helpful!  "ChadB" ? dB is in his name !! Very appropriate. nice catch! I never even noticed that. 8) |
|
ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,161
Member is Online
|
Post by ttocs on Dec 9, 2021 10:40:01 GMT -5
"ChadB" ? dB is in his name !! Very appropriate. nice catch! I never even noticed that. 8) I didn't edit fast enough. Found another one with the whole tag line. |
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,854
|
Post by LCSeminole on Dec 9, 2021 14:08:49 GMT -5
Thanks again! I will share this with my calibrator (ChadB). I mentioned it to him and we are considering leaving it elevated for the time being with the hopes that the new fw is released soon and corrects it. We were discussing the impact on the lfe as u mentioned but I guess it depends how elevated it will be in my case. Not sure yet but either way, this info is helpful! I'm not sure but I don't think Chad will doing anything with Dirac, most likely using the P-EQ and taking measurements with the REW software. |
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,854
|
Post by LCSeminole on Dec 9, 2021 14:14:25 GMT -5
"ChadB" ? dB is in his name !! Very appropriate. ChadB is the ISF professional that calibrates my flat panels. He also does audio, but never used his services in this regard. He definitely works MAGIC with OLED's. A link to his website is below. www.hdtvbychadb.com |
|
|
|
Post by zdoggz on Dec 9, 2021 14:20:25 GMT -5
Thanks again! I will share this with my calibrator (ChadB). I mentioned it to him and we are considering leaving it elevated for the time being with the hopes that the new fw is released soon and corrects it. We were discussing the impact on the lfe as u mentioned but I guess it depends how elevated it will be in my case. Not sure yet but either way, this info is helpful! I'm not sure but I don't think Chad will doing anything with Dirac, most likely using the P-EQ and taking measurements with the REW software. He is using Dirac for my calibration and verifying things with REW from what I can tell. Ill let you know for sure when he is done. He said it’ll take about 7hrs to do all the tweaking, so he is certainly getting into serious detail that I wasn’t doing by simply running Dirac (hence why I hired him!) |
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,854
|
Post by LCSeminole on Dec 9, 2021 14:32:53 GMT -5
I'm not sure but I don't think Chad will doing anything with Dirac, most likely using the P-EQ and taking measurements with the REW software. He is using Dirac for my calibration and verifying things with REW from what I can tell. Ill let you know for sure when he is done. He said it’ll take about 7hrs to do all the tweaking, so he is certainly getting into serious detail that I wasn’t doing by simply running Dirac (hence why I hired him!) Yes Chad is thorough so I'm sure the end result will be excellent. Do let us know how he performed the audio calibration, as I"m highly interested. He was just at my house the Sunday before Thanksgiving calibrating my Sony OLED, and his results are nothing short of stunning. |
|
