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Post by hsamwel on Feb 22, 2022 10:57:58 GMT -5
3 more questions from newbie: 1) why is better to use minidsp 2x4 hd for 2 subs setup? why dirac cant make needed filters? I have three subs connected to miniDSP and tweaked them to work well as a group. This way only one output is used from the processor and Dirac will see this as one subwoofer and correct very well. This works way better than connecting three subs directly to the processor with Dirac correcting EACH sub but not as a group, such that when all three play mono bass it is highly likely to have bad interactions between them.
2) is minidsp 4x10 hd the same as 2x4 hd, but with balanced input/outut? No.
3) is there crossover in rmc-1 for bi-amp config? No. i found out that front wide channels can be used for bi-amp, but cant finder hi/low filters in setup (( Bi-Amp follows Fronts settings. However Fronts are setup, so too are the Bi-Amp Wides. It cannot be used for analog, it's only a digital bi-amp situation.3) The crossover used is the one in the speaker. This is not a super advanced bi-amp feature. Just a simple dual output of the same signal. Actually using a Y-split would be better because then any sound mode can be used. Analog can be used btw, just not FULLY analog.. That is, analog input with Reference Stereo sound mode will not work. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 22, 2022 11:05:52 GMT -5
The locking is not what I would call fast fast, it's more like "did I actually push that button" fast. Cheers Gary And the ”funny” thing is that with a cold reboot now and then you will get 25-50% faster
locking… I think LPS helps this too, or VOS makes it worse. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 22, 2022 11:16:18 GMT -5
And the ”funny” thing is that with a cold reboot now and then you will get 25-50% faster
locking… I think LPS helps this too, or VOS makes it worse. I use VOS and my experience has been that if I know what HDMI input I want to go to, say Directv on HDMI 4 to ATV 4K on HDMI 2, the switch is relatively quick. Where I run into the slowness issue is if I toggle through the HDMI inputs on the remote one after the other....then it bogs down. It would be wonderful if it was fast/faster, but in reality it doesn't get in my way most of the time. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 22, 2022 11:24:45 GMT -5
I think LPS helps this too, or VOS makes it worse. I use VOS and my experience has been that if I know what HDMI input I want to go to, say Directv on HDMI 4 to ATV 4K on HDMI 2, the switch is relatively quick. Where I run into the slowness issue is if I toggle through the HDMI inputs on the remote one after the other....then it bogs down. It would be wonderful if it was fast/faster, but in reality it doesn't get in my way most of the time. I use a Harmony which always send a discrete command to switch to a specific input, and never scrolls, but yes, scrolling is slower, especially if you haven’t ‘hidden’ unused inputs. I still think VOS causes more anomalies over time, and requires more frequent cold boots to reset the code. I don’t use it anymore. |
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 22, 2022 11:31:14 GMT -5
I am looking at potentially getting XMC-2 (2nd hand) and have few key questions - hopefully you can offer me some advice wise people: 1. Would you do it again? Would you buy it know all that you know and having all the experience? 2. The bass management bug I am reading about - would it affect me with 2 subs and MiniDPS 2x4 HD? If so what is the problem? 3. Pops and cracks - are those still a thing? 4. Any other major bugs I should know about? 5. Currently using Yamaha CX-A5200 - does anybody know how they compare SQ wise? I think they have quite similar sound signature? I am only after movies watching. Dont care about music - have a separate system for it. Many thanks For some background I bought my XMC-1 back in 2016, and upgraded to the XMC-2 around March 2021.
To answer your main question of would I do it again?
No, absolutely not.
I went with the XMC-1 in 2016 because it was the only semi-affordable processor with Dirac Live back then, I believe the only other alternative was the $15,000+ Datasat RS20i, and the Emotiva EMP-1 that was announced for $900 vanished into the ether. I had tried the Dirac Live trial on Windows with my Pioneer SC-05 and was blown away, so I knew I wanted Dirac. I've always been happy with the sound quality of both the XMC-1 and XMC-2 after calibrating with a UMIK-1 microphone, (I've always gotten truly horrible results when using the included Emotiva microphone) but the user experience and bugs drive me insane. Upgrading from the XMC-1, I was hopeful many of the issues I had with that would be resolved, but if anything the XMC-2 is worse. Here are my list of issues: - Random pops and cracks, often when digital audio streams stop or start. Thankfully these are not that loud, more of a minor annoyance and it's not always.
- HDMI handshake issues abound, I'll have to sometimes cycle between inputs several times to get things working
- The on-screen GUI is very, very slow sometimes taking several seconds to update. If you look at the OLED screen on the front of the unit that will be faster meaning the on-screen GUI is lagging behind.
- Maybe 1 out of every 50 times, starting a bitstreamed HD audio track like Atmos TrueHD will result in digitized noise blasting out on all speakers at whatever volume you have set
- Maybe 1 out of every 20 times, the surround sound speakers sound like they are getting an 8-bit audio signal, subtly but noticeably distorted. Cycling surround mixing modes seems to be the fastest way to resolve this
- Sometimes I just never get audio requiring a hard reset
- The Dirac Live setup process on the XMC-2 is very convoluted requiring a Raspberry Pi running some custom software to bridge network communications between Dirac Live's software and the XMC-2.
- The other night I got zero audio out of my Apple TV 4K. I switched audio formats on it... nothing. I switched over to my Windows PC to see if that worked and fired up Spotify only to be blasted with the most horrifically distorted audio I've ever heard.
I'm someone that generally likes tinkering with things, but this product is an exercise in frustration, and embarrassment. I've had friends over to watch movies and been hit by these issues and had to apologize for blasting them with noise. It's not uncommon for me to fire up my theater setup at the end of a long day to relax, and then get stuck troubleshooting for 5-10 minutes power cycling the XMC-2 trying to just get things working. Oh and be sure to wait 30+ seconds if you cut the power because the ethernet interface won't come back up correctly if you reboot too quickly.
I want to like Emotiva, I really do, but the fact that these issues persist to this day and in the 9 months since firmware v2.3 and v2.5 the only thing fixed is bass management is incredibly disappointing. These days Dirac Live is available on many other units, from the Monoprice HTP-1, to NAD, Pioneer, Onkyo, and Integra.
IMO * The sound quality when working fine is absolutely great. * Dirac makes it even better, even though Emotivas implementation is kludgy. * I have also had some snaps and cracks with firmware 2.2/2.3. Especially when I pause playback, or sometimes when I restart playback. No really loud noise though. * The menu and OSD is really REALLY slow.. Those that think it’s fast enough has not experienced a fast system. The worst thing is that it’s not stable.. It get’s slower with time. * With firmware 2.3 I have gotten some issues with HDMI audio syncing. Some formats have gotten wrong audio or even no audio. But generally I can’t say I have had much issues in my system. Emotiva doesn’t seem to improve over time. They just seem to keep the same big issues but with some new features. Keeping the same code and GUI as with previous processors is probably the reason. |
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 22, 2022 11:40:10 GMT -5
I use VOS and my experience has been that if I know what HDMI input I want to go to, say Directv on HDMI 4 to ATV 4K on HDMI 2, the switch is relatively quick. Where I run into the slowness issue is if I toggle through the HDMI inputs on the remote one after the other....then it bogs down. It would be wonderful if it was fast/faster, but in reality it doesn't get in my way most of the time. I use a Harmony which always send a discrete command to switch to a specific input, and never scrolls, but yes, scrolling is slower, especially if you haven’t ‘hidden’ unused inputs. I still think VOS causes more anomalies over time, and requires more frequent cold boots to reset the code. I don’t use it anymore. It sure does.. Emotiva said to me a long time ago they were aware of some issues with switching HDMI inputs.. That caused issues over time.. I got the impression they were about to fix this. Seems they didn’t!  |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 22, 2022 11:43:03 GMT -5
I use VOS and my experience has been that if I know what HDMI input I want to go to, say Directv on HDMI 4 to ATV 4K on HDMI 2, the switch is relatively quick. Where I run into the slowness issue is if I toggle through the HDMI inputs on the remote one after the other....then it bogs down. It would be wonderful if it was fast/faster, but in reality it doesn't get in my way most of the time. I use a Harmony which always send a discrete command to switch to a specific input, and never scrolls, but yes, scrolling is slower, especially if you haven’t ‘hidden’ unused inputs. I still think VOS causes more anomalies over time, and requires more frequent cold boots to reset the code. I don’t use it anymore. I've always used it and really have had minimal issues with either the XMC-1 or 2. I like the fast on. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 22, 2022 11:50:27 GMT -5
I use a Harmony which always send a discrete command to switch to a specific input, and never scrolls, but yes, scrolling is slower, especially if you haven’t ‘hidden’ unused inputs. I still think VOS causes more anomalies over time, and requires more frequent cold boots to reset the code. I don’t use it anymore. It sure does.. Emotiva said to me a long time ago they were aware of some issues with switching HDMI inputs.. That caused issues over time.. I got the impression they were about to fix this. Seems they didn’t! hsamwel....what are the issues over time? I've not noticed anything different with my setup since 2.5 and have not had to reboot, unless I am just not noticing? |
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 22, 2022 14:50:31 GMT -5
It sure does.. Emotiva said to me a long time ago they were aware of some issues with switching HDMI inputs.. That caused issues over time.. I got the impression they were about to fix this. Seems they didn’t!  hsamwel....what are the issues over time? I've not noticed anything different with my setup since 2.5 and have not had to reboot, unless I am just not noticing? This was a while back.. Pre Dirac if I remember correct. They said that they were aware and was working on fixing some issues regarding switching HDMI inputs that caused some lagging and made the switching slower over time. I guess some memory allocation/release issues that caused the process to slow down if switched enough times. IMO there’s still some issues with VRO and usage time.. There are slowdowns that you notice big time especially after a reboot which makes everything as fast as Emotiva can do it.. It’s not until you’ve used VRO for quite a while that you notice the big slowdowns.. It usually starts with remote lagging.. Pressing remote buttons and the display won’t react for atleast 1-3 seconds.. A freshly rebooted processor usually displays the change pretty quickly even though the actual switching takes several seconds. The low power mode of course won’t have these issues unless you keep the processor on at all times. |
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Post by doc1963 on Feb 22, 2022 16:25:00 GMT -5
I use a Harmony which always send a discrete command to switch to a specific input, and never scrolls, but yes, scrolling is slower, especially if you haven’t ‘hidden’ unused inputs. I still think VOS causes more anomalies over time, and requires more frequent cold boots to reset the code. I don’t use it anymore. I've always used it and really have had minimal issues with either the XMC-1 or 2. I like the fast on. You're not alone... I use VRO exclusively and have not exprerienced any issues or massive slowdowns regarding input switching. I also use a Harmony which, as AudioHTIT describes, sends discreet input commands. On the rare occasion where I do use the factory remote, I always use the “direct input buttons" (where my most used inputs are directly assigned). I rarely "scroll" through the inputs which I do agree is still painfully slow even though all of my unused inputs are hidden. Who knows why some of us experience things differently, but I stick with what works for me. What I can say is that I have pin 13 (CEC) mechanically disabled at every HDMI based source component in my system. Whether that makes any difference, again... who knows, but VRO seems to work fine for me...  |
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Post by msimanyi on Feb 22, 2022 18:00:23 GMT -5
Someone, please clue me in. What's VRO? What's VOS?
Google has been useless trying to figure those out.
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Feb 22, 2022 18:03:05 GMT -5
Someone, please clue me in. What's VRO? What's VOS? Google has been useless trying to figure those out. VRO = Video Remains On This is the more accurate acronym for the current crop of RMC/XMC-2 processors as the term "Video Remains On" is what is stated in the Settings Menu. VOS = Video On Standby |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 22, 2022 18:12:37 GMT -5
Someone, please clue me in. What's VRO? What's VOS? Google has been useless trying to figure those out. VRO = Video Remains On This is the more accurate acronym for the current crop of RMC/XMC-2 processors as the term "Video Remains On" is what is stated in the Settings Menu. VOS = Video On Standby My bad, I used VOS, the obsolete term for VRO (though I do like that both LPS & VOS have the word Standby in them, and they both refer to how the unit acts when in Standby) Oh, LPS (Low Power Standby) |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Feb 22, 2022 18:14:28 GMT -5
VRO = Video Remains On This is the more accurate acronym for the current crop of RMC/XMC-2 processors as the term "Video Remains On" is what is stated in the Settings Menu. VOS = Video On Standby My bad, I used VOS, the obsolete term for VRO (though I do like that both LPS & VOS have the word Standby in them, and they both refer to how the unit acts when in Standby) Oh, LPS (Low Power Standby) I totally agree with you! Don't know how it became Video Remains On. I like it ending in Standby. |
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Post by Lsc on Feb 23, 2022 6:18:45 GMT -5
Emotiva doesn’t seem to improve over time. They just seem to keep the same big issues but with some new features. Keeping the same code and GUI as with previous processors is probably the reason. I respectfully disagree that the XMC2 hasn’t improved over time because it has. It’s more stable now and the super slow HDMI switching is now slow HDMI switching… I’d say it’s good enough for me because I hardly ever switch out of my ATV4K but if you switch inputs more often then I understand the frustration. Emotiva has gone pretty quiet though except for the promo podcasts. It’s all good though, they have shown that it’s a struggle with these G3Ps and I have adjusted my expectations accordingly. I’m sure they were hoping for a better result and so were we. |
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Post by KeithL on Feb 23, 2022 10:01:16 GMT -5
There's always been a bit of a question about the best way to describe that feature... partly because different people look at it differently...
It's "Video Remains On" because the video does remain on in Standby mode...
And "Video On Standby" means the same thing...
But some people don't care about that aspect of the situation very much... A lot of people select that mode because the processor starts up faster... And a few people avoid it because the processor uses more power in that mode (not much... but apparently power usage is a big issue for some people)... So, for those folks, "High Power Standby" is the more useful description...
For one thing, our processors do use more power in "High Power Standby" than in "Low Power Standby"... (although they don't burn much power even when fully On).
And, for another, it intuitively makes sense to many people that "devices in a lower power standby mode take longer to wake up"...
My bad, I used VOS, the obsolete term for VRO (though I do like that both LPS & VOS have the word Standby in them, and they both refer to how the unit acts when in Standby) Oh, LPS (Low Power Standby) I totally agree with you! Don't know how it became Video Remains On. I like it ending in Standby. |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Feb 23, 2022 10:13:44 GMT -5
There's always been a bit of a question about the best way to describe that feature... partly because different people look at it differently... It's "Video Remains On" because the video does remain on in Standby mode...
And "Video On Standby" means the same thing... But some people don't care about that aspect of the situation very much... A lot of people select that mode because the processor starts up faster... And a few people avoid it because the processor uses more power in that mode (not much... but apparently power usage is a big issue for some people)... So, for those folks, "High Power Standby" is the more useful description...
For one thing, our processors do use more power in "High Power Standby" than in "Low Power Standby"... (although they don't burn much power even when fully On).
And, for another, it intuitively makes sense to many people that "devices in a lower power standby mode take longer to wake up"... Changing nomenclature gets folks lost. It's like on Green Acres when someone is giving driving directions to an out of towner and says something like, you go until you pass where the old Larsen place used to be and turn left. Or, changing Comisky Park to whatever it's called now. At least Wrigley Field is still Wrigley Field. Each term you mention may all be accurate and descriptive for what is happening, no argument here. But we get used to using a term, then assign an acronym to it, and then it changes. This adds to confusion when we attempt tech support for others. |
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Post by panasonicst60 on Feb 23, 2022 10:55:15 GMT -5
Instead of talking about acronyms, let's talk about the elephant in the room. When's the new firmware getting released?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 23, 2022 11:01:59 GMT -5
There's always been a bit of a question about the best way to describe that feature... partly because different people look at it differently... It's "Video Remains On" because the video does remain on in Standby mode...
And "Video On Standby" means the same thing... But some people don't care about that aspect of the situation very much... A lot of people select that mode because the processor starts up faster... And a few people avoid it because the processor uses more power in that mode (not much... but apparently power usage is a big issue for some people)... So, for those folks, "High Power Standby" is the more useful description...
For one thing, our processors do use more power in "High Power Standby" than in "Low Power Standby"... (although they don't burn much power even when fully On).
And, for another, it intuitively makes sense to many people that "devices in a lower power standby mode take longer to wake up"... Changing nomenclature gets folks lost. It's like on Green Acres when someone is giving driving directions to an out of towner and says something like, you go until you pass where the old Larsen place used to be and turn left. Or, changing Comisky Park to whatever it's called now. At least Wrigley Field is still Wrigley Field. Each term you mention may all be accurate and descriptive for what is happening, no argument here. But we get used to using a term, then assign an acronym to it, and then it changes. This adds to confusion when we attempt tech support for others. I agree, and would like to see ‘Standby’ as part of the acronym, but while it was changed with little fanfare, I doubt it will go back. Though I think it makes my system more stable, I do use LPS because it uses less power, and don’t mind the startup time. We do our best to keep our ‘Always On’ footprint as low as possible, though according to our Sense monitor, we’re in the top 1/3rd of Sense users. Leaving the RMC on would increase it roughly 6-7%, which isn’t huge, but to us, unnecessary (and it’s not about money). I realize this is a hot button issue, when I started a thread trying to document idle power in audio gear, more people chimed in that they don’t care, than submitted data (the internet phenomenon of negative posting). While far from perfect, I do like Sense’s ability to give data on my power usage, and Always On status. Sorry for going OT, but when conservation is characterized as “apparently power usage is a big issue for some people”, it seems irresponsible to me, I know many disagree.  The Idle Power Thread |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Feb 23, 2022 11:03:46 GMT -5
Instead of talking about acronyms, let's talk about the elephant in the room. When's the new firmware getting released? I can absolutely guarantee the new firmware's release date!! It'll be on a day ending in a "y".  |
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