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Post by zdoggz on Feb 23, 2022 11:04:25 GMT -5
Emotiva doesn’t seem to improve over time. They just seem to keep the same big issues but with some new features. Keeping the same code and GUI as with previous processors is probably the reason. I respectfully disagree that the XMC2 hasn’t improved over time because it has. It’s more stable now and the super slow HDMI switching is now slow HDMI switching… I’d say it’s good enough for me because I hardly ever switch out of my ATV4K but if you switch inputs more often then I understand the frustration. Emotiva has gone pretty quiet though except for the promo podcasts. It’s all good though, they have shown that it’s a struggle with these G3Ps and I have adjusted my expectations accordingly. I’m sure they were hoping for a better result and so were we. I’ve been wondering when the next podcast will be dropped. The last one was 12-10, so it’s been awhile (relatively). |
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Post by doc1963 on Feb 23, 2022 11:16:48 GMT -5
I respectfully disagree that the XMC2 hasn’t improved over time because it has. It’s more stable now and the super slow HDMI switching is now slow HDMI switching… I’d say it’s good enough for me because I hardly ever switch out of my ATV4K but if you switch inputs more often then I understand the frustration. Emotiva has gone pretty quiet though except for the promo podcasts. It’s all good though, they have shown that it’s a struggle with these G3Ps and I have adjusted my expectations accordingly. I’m sure they were hoping for a better result and so were we. I’ve been wondering when the next podcast will be dropped. The last one was 12-10, so it’s been awhile (relatively). I wouldn't look for a Podcast to be a source for anything other than for their "entertainment value" or maybe a new piece of hardware that's literally on the verge of hitting their website. Although I do still enjoy them, their Podcasts of recent are nothing like the days of old...  |
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Post by zdoggz on Feb 23, 2022 11:40:18 GMT -5
Yeah, I guess I/we are all a bit starved for some info/update, so even their podcast was put on my radar. Haha. Although, it was either an early 2021 or late 2020 podcast where they did briefly discuss/hype an upcoming firmware update.
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Feb 23, 2022 12:59:41 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of what you've said...
I personally simply believe that "Low Power Standby" is a more accurate description of what's actually happening.
And, to be fair, as with any computer-based device, doing a "full reboot" now and then tends to improve overall stability and performance. When you "hibernate" your computer you are saving and reloading an image of the current memory - with everything already loaded.
When you "cold boot" you are reloading everything from scratch, which means that you have better memory optimization, and often better efficiency of utilization as well. (It's basically the difference between carefully rearranging items in your closet - and spring cleaning where you pull everything out and then put it all back the way you want it.)
As far as power... A fully loaded RMC-1 draws less power than the difference between a 75 watt incandescent bulb and an equivalent LED bulb... But every watt does help.
However, for many people, the delay in startup time overshadows any or all of the technical implications.
(But, for those people, I would still recommend doing a full power cycle occasionally.)
Changing nomenclature gets folks lost. It's like on Green Acres when someone is giving driving directions to an out of towner and says something like, you go until you pass where the old Larsen place used to be and turn left. Or, changing Comisky Park to whatever it's called now. At least Wrigley Field is still Wrigley Field. Each term you mention may all be accurate and descriptive for what is happening, no argument here. But we get used to using a term, then assign an acronym to it, and then it changes. This adds to confusion when we attempt tech support for others. I agree, and would like to see ‘Standby’ as part of the acronym, but while it was changed with little fanfare, I doubt it will go back. Though I think it makes my system more stable, I do use LPS because it uses less power, and don’t mind the startup time. We do our best to keep our ‘Always On’ footprint as low as possible, though according to our Sense monitor, we’re in the top 1/3rd of Sense users. Leaving the RMC on would increase it roughly 6-7%, which isn’t huge, but to us, unnecessary (and it’s not about money). I realize this is a hot button issue, when I started a thread trying to document idle power in audio gear, more people chimed in that they don’t care, than submitted data (the internet phenomenon of negative posting). While far from perfect, I do like Sense’s ability to give data on my power usage, and Always On status. Sorry for going OT, but when conservation is characterized as “apparently power usage is a big issue for some people”, it seems irresponsible to me, I know many disagree. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> The Idle Power Thread |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 23, 2022 15:20:31 GMT -5
I agree with a lot of what you've said...
I personally simply believe that "Low Power Standby" is a more accurate description of what's actually happening. I also agree with much of what you’ve said, but “Low Power Standby” is not what we’re debating, I think most of us agree that LPS is well named. It’s “Video Remains On”, that some of us would prefer to have remained as “Video On Standby”. It’s essentially a binary switch for how the unit operates in Standby, and it seems to me that ‘Standby’ should be part of both acronyms (as I said I don’t expect it to change). Some have expressed that we shouldn’t be wasting our time on this discussion (topics an old boss of mine aptly termed as “Ant Sh!t”). I think there are a myriad of decisions Emotiva must make in bringing products to market, and many of those decisions affect how we interact with these them, the more they hear how we think, the more friendly the products could be. It doesn’t seem any less productive than asking for FW status, that appears not to be forthcoming. |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Feb 23, 2022 16:04:42 GMT -5
I don't disagree with you there... although, since it's not really an "industry standard term", not everyone agrees on what it should be called.
It's also worth pointing out that there are certain labeling requirements in the EU that complicate things. Specifically - there are restrictions about how much power a device may draw "while in Standby".
So, in some cases, this may limit what we can safely refer to as "Standby".
(I don't know if this is the specific reason in this case... )
I agree with a lot of what you've said...
I personally simply believe that "Low Power Standby" is a more accurate description of what's actually happening. I also agree with much of what you’ve said, but “Low Power Standby” is not what we’re debating, I think most of us agree that LPS is well named. It’s “Video Remains On”, that some of us would prefer to have remained as “Video On Standby”. It’s essentially a binary switch for how the unit operates in Standby, and it seems to me that ‘Standby’ should be part of both acronyms (as I said I don’t expect it to change). Some have expressed that we shouldn’t be wasting our time on this discussion (topics an old boss of mine aptly termed as “Ant Sh!t”). I think there are a myriad of decisions Emotiva must make in bringing products to market, and many of those decisions affect how we interact with these them, the more they hear how we think, the more friendly the products could be. It doesn’t seem any less productive than asking for FW status, that appears not to be forthcoming. |
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 23, 2022 16:19:37 GMT -5
There's always been a bit of a question about the best way to describe that feature... partly because different people look at it differently...
It's "Video Remains On" because the video does remain on in Standby mode...
And "Video On Standby" means the same thing...
But some people don't care about that aspect of the situation very much... A lot of people select that mode because the processor starts up faster... And a few people avoid it because the processor uses more power in that mode (not much... but apparently power usage is a big issue for some people)... So, for those folks, "High Power Standby" is the more useful description...
For one thing, our processors do use more power in "High Power Standby" than in "Low Power Standby"... (although they don't burn much power even when fully On).
And, for another, it intuitively makes sense to many people that "devices in a lower power standby mode take longer to wake up"...
I totally agree with you! Don't know how it became Video Remains On. I like it ending in Standby. You shouldn’t choose the name of a feature yourselves.. You should try to follow the industry standard for the most part.. Some features already have different names from different manufacturers. Anyway, try not to create any new names yourselves.. Which you already have done in some places. This makes it a lot easier to move from other processors to yours and vice versa.. |
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 23, 2022 16:35:23 GMT -5
Video On Standby in better than Video Remains On IMO.. No one but Emotiva uses the latter..
The first actually explains the feature better also. You directly understand what it does.
Video Remains On I can guess new users will have to look up what it does..
IMO this discussion is useless anyway because I’m quite sure Emotiva will not change a single
thing in their processors unless forced by Dolby or DTS.
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 23, 2022 16:52:48 GMT -5
I've always used it and really have had minimal issues with either the XMC-1 or 2. I like the fast on. You're not alone... I use VRO exclusively and have not exprerienced any issues or massive slowdowns regarding input switching. I also use a Harmony which, as AudioHTIT describes, sends discreet input commands. On the rare occasion where I do use the factory remote, I always use the “direct input buttons" (where my most used inputs are directly assigned). I rarely "scroll" through the inputs which I do agree is still painfully slow even though all of my unused inputs are hidden. Who knows why some of us experience things differently, but I stick with what works for me. What I can say is that I have pin 13 (CEC) mechanically disabled at every HDMI based source component in my system. Whether that makes any difference, again... who knows, but VRO seems to work fine for me...  Don’t think we experience it differently.. Just look back when I said the menu system was laggy as hell.. Some users wrote back and said it was not lagging.. Then I asked for a video of their system in action.. It was the same speed as mine!! IMO it is what you expect it to be that makes it bad, good enough or great.. I want instant (almost) reaction to remote commands so going from .3 to .5 seconds to 1-2 seconds is extremely laggy to me. I don’t need instant switching like some others crave.. I just don’t want the processor to FEEL laggy.. It should react instantly, then if the switch takes 3 or 7 seconds I don’t really care. You shouldn’t have to start thinking after a remote press ”Did it get my command?”.. That’s why I absolutely hate the live menus as well.. I’d rather have fast menus and ditch the ”live” part.. |
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Lsc
Emo VIPs 
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Post by Lsc on Feb 23, 2022 17:05:49 GMT -5
VRO - is this acronym in Emotiva’s manual? While I agree than the labels could be better, it’s one of 2 choices.
Maybe something which is somewhat of an industry standard- “Quick Start” checkbox would be best suited.
If this is a low priority item on the G3P’s list of things to do, I would agree. Bring on DLBC and other upgrades first please.
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ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,130
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Post by ttocs on Feb 23, 2022 17:29:52 GMT -5
VRO - is this acronym in Emotiva’s manual? While I agree than the labels could be better, it’s one of 2 choices. Maybe something which is somewhat of an industry standard- “Quick Start” checkbox would be best suited. If this is a low priority item on the G3P’s list of things to do, I would agree. Bring on DLBC and other upgrades first please. Go to: Menu:: Setup:: Advanced Setup:: Standby:: The choices are: Video Remains On (what we call VRO) Lowest Power (what we call LPS (yes, we now are adding "Standby" to this, but it's under "Standby", so . . . .)) edit: I guess we could call Video Remains On VROS so Standby is added to the acronym in the same fashion as calling Lowest Power LPS. |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 23, 2022 18:26:04 GMT -5
VRO - is this acronym in Emotiva’s manual? While I agree than the labels could be better, it’s one of 2 choices. Maybe something which is somewhat of an industry standard- “Quick Start” checkbox would be best suited. If this is a low priority item on the G3P’s list of things to do, I would agree. Bring on DLBC and other upgrades first please. Go to: Menu:: Setup:: Advanced Setup:: Standby:: The choices are: Video Remains On (what we call VRO) Lowest Power (what we call LPS (yes, we now are adding "Standby" to this, but it's under "Standby", so . . . .)) edit: I guess we could call Video Remains On VROS so Standby is added to the acronym in the same fashion as calling Lowest Power LPS. What’s confusing to me are the acronyms. Those choices while not ideal is ok. You can tell that Emotiva doesn’t have a product person who helps with these things and these are all engineer driven. Again, these labels are easy to change but it’s totally unnecessary. |
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Post by aswiss on Feb 23, 2022 19:00:24 GMT -5
After reading through the last 10 pages back - my concern for the firmware is not the Release date - it's a detailled overview what we as owner can expect of it.
Will it contain
the new Dolby Upmixer?
the DTS.X Pro?
a better GUI or even let us configure over a browser?
will it be ready for the upcoming HDMI 2.1 Board?
finally the fix of the current problems so many are writing here.
I personally don't have issues (except the annoying click sometimes when sound format is changed). I arranged myself how it is - and enjoy the good sound.
I still do not use Dirac, because I don't have a Subwoofer to integrate, and did not like the sound after the measurment, which shows that I did not spend enough time to understand how to handle the curves.
My 2 AVAA C20 Basstrap do a perfect Job against modes - and they work in Reference Stereo mode too.
So please Dear Emo Team - Lift a bit the curtain - it's a long time passing, since we have seen a major release.
Thanks and stay healthy
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 23, 2022 20:37:56 GMT -5
The locking is not what I would call fast fast, it's more like "did I actually push that button" fast. Cheers Gary And the ”funny” thing is that with a cold reboot now and then you will get 25-50% faster locking.. Their code seems buggy as hell.. Long term stability is not Emotiva’s best feature. I would recommend a cold reboot about once a week to have a fast system. Of course depending on how much you use it. So far with daily use, only 2 weeks though, it hasn't gotten any slower, it hasn't gotten any faster either. The XMC-1 needed the odd cold start to clear out the crap, so did the UMC-200, kinda like windose. It will get a cold start this weekend when I install the overheads for the 5.1.2, hopefully the 2 x additional XLR cables will arrive today. Cheers Gary |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 23, 2022 23:59:09 GMT -5
And the ”funny” thing is that with a cold reboot now and then you will get 25-50% faster locking.. Their code seems buggy as hell.. Long term stability is not Emotiva’s best feature. I would recommend a cold reboot about once a week to have a fast system. Of course depending on how much you use it. So far with daily use, only 2 weeks though, it hasn't gotten any slower, it hasn't gotten any faster either. The XMC-1 needed the odd cold start to clear out the crap, so did the UMC-200, kinda like windose. It will get a cold start this weekend when I install the overheads for the 5.1.2, hopefully the 2 x additional XLR cables will arrive today. Cheers Gary I never cold start my XMC2…meaning I may have done it about 5 times in the 2.5 years I had it. But then again I’m not messing around in the menus - I’m sure there is a memory leak somewhere so the more you mess around with the settings the slower it seems to get. Once you set it and forget it, it just works every time (except for ARC/CEC). |
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AntonP
Minor Hero
RMC-1
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Post by AntonP on Feb 24, 2022 5:56:15 GMT -5
are there any news about DLBC?
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 24, 2022 12:25:41 GMT -5
I don't disagree with you there... although, since it's not really an "industry standard term", not everyone agrees on what it should be called.
It's also worth pointing out that there are certain labeling requirements in the EU that complicate things. Specifically - there are restrictions about how much power a device may draw "while in Standby".
So, in some cases, this may limit what we can safely refer to as "Standby".
(I don't know if this is the specific reason in this case... )
I also agree with much of what you’ve said, but “Low Power Standby” is not what we’re debating, I think most of us agree that LPS is well named. It’s “Video Remains On”, that some of us would prefer to have remained as “Video On Standby”. It’s essentially a binary switch for how the unit operates in Standby, and it seems to me that ‘Standby’ should be part of both acronyms (as I said I don’t expect it to change). Some have expressed that we shouldn’t be wasting our time on this discussion (topics an old boss of mine aptly termed as “Ant Sh!t”). I think there are a myriad of decisions Emotiva must make in bringing products to market, and many of those decisions affect how we interact with these them, the more they hear how we think, the more friendly the products could be. It doesn’t seem any less productive than asking for FW status, that appears not to be forthcoming. You are correct here Keith.. No network connected device may draw more than 3-12W if it’s called standby in any way to be sold in the EU. I think the max wattage is depending on device type. If not network connected then it’s 0.5W and must have a ”sleep” feature that makes the device go to off/standby after a ”reasonably” long time. This seems like a crappy ”law” to force manufacturers to do.. But this has saved an incredible amount of energy over the years.. And in the long run we are better off actually. |
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 24, 2022 12:47:29 GMT -5
And the ”funny” thing is that with a cold reboot now and then you will get 25-50% faster locking.. Their code seems buggy as hell.. Long term stability is not Emotiva’s best feature. I would recommend a cold reboot about once a week to have a fast system. Of course depending on how much you use it. So far with daily use, only 2 weeks though, it hasn't gotten any slower, it hasn't gotten any faster either. The XMC-1 needed the odd cold start to clear out the crap, so did the UMC-200, kinda like windose. It will get a cold start this weekend when I install the overheads for the 5.1.2, hopefully the 2 x additional XLR cables will arrive today. Cheers Gary I sometimes don’t cold reboot my RMC-1 for several months.. But I notice how the display takes a while change to my chosen input. Usually this goes pretty quick when newly rebooted. Now, testing this, I pressed different direct input buttons repeatedly and most of the time got no or very small lagging. Although none of the source device were on at the time of switching. I did a reboot a couple of weeks ago though when updating to firmware 2.5. Also the past two weeks my RMC has gotten very little usage. It’s always on VRO mode.. But I plan to change this as it gets little use on the weekdays. |
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Post by msimanyi on Feb 24, 2022 16:43:03 GMT -5
I tried it last night. Without VRO, startup is glacially slow.
Okay, okay. Maybe that's a bit overstated, but I *immediately* turned it back to VRO.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2022 17:41:41 GMT -5
Weeks dropping like flies and still no new (real) firmware update. I'm just glad that for most of what I use my RMC-1 for it has worked as needed. I have been on this semi-beta team from the beginning. There is some comfort to be had in knowing that other manufacturers aren't perfect either. Looking forward to the eventual release of an HDMI 2.1 board (hopefully before the HDMI 2.2 spec is announced).
My primary issue is switching between analog bypass and hdmi. Occasionally, the unit gets lost and I get no sound until a hard reboot. The other weird one is that when switching between analog and hdmi the analog volume will be as much as 10db too low (until a hard reset). Please Emo... sometimes it's the little things that just add up and end up making people doubt you.
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