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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 25, 2022 21:22:09 GMT -5
The 2 additional XLR cables arrived yesterday and I wired up the 2 x heights (1 x left centre height and 1 x right centre height) using the 2 x subwoofer/height outputs. Set the distances and balanced the volumes, all good. This style of set up but the side surrounds are in line with the lounge (not behind it)as it up against a wall  Tried an Atmos sound track from Netflix (from the ATV4K) and the XMC-2 downmixes it to TrueHD, hmmmmm. Different Atmos track this time from Disney, same, downmixed it to TrueHD. Tried a 4K BD with Atmos, same, downmixed to TrueHD The XMC-2 manual is silent on how to get it to identify Atmos so I assume it's automatic, it recognises when an amp is plugged in to height speaker outputs perhaps. I'll try a cold start power down and see if that helps. Anyone got any other suggestions? Cheers Gary |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Feb 25, 2022 21:30:02 GMT -5
The 2 additional XLR cables arrived yesterday and I wired up the 2 x heights (1 x left centre height and 1 x right centre height) using the 2 x subwoofer/height outputs. Set the distances and balanced the volumes, all good. This style of set up but the side surrounds are in line with the lounge (not behind it)as it up against a wall Tried an Atmos sound track from Netflix (from the ATV4K) and the XMC-2 downmixes it to TrueHD, hmmmmm. Different Atmos track this time from Disney, same, downmixed it to TrueHD. Tried a 4K BD with Atmos, same, downmixed to TrueHD The XMC-2 manual is silent on how to get it to identify Atmos so I assume it's automatic, it recognises when an amp is plugged in to height speaker outputs perhaps. I'll try a cold start power down and see if that helps. Anyone got any other suggestions? Cheers Gary Gary, are you using ARC? What source is being used for your NETFLIX and Disney+? |
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Post by foggy1956 on Feb 25, 2022 22:19:48 GMT -5
The 2 additional XLR cables arrived yesterday and I wired up the 2 x heights (1 x left centre height and 1 x right centre height) using the 2 x subwoofer/height outputs. Set the distances and balanced the volumes, all good. This style of set up but the side surrounds are in line with the lounge (not behind it)as it up against a wall Tried an Atmos sound track from Netflix (from the ATV4K) and the XMC-2 downmixes it to TrueHD, hmmmmm. Different Atmos track this time from Disney, same, downmixed it to TrueHD. Tried a 4K BD with Atmos, same, downmixed to TrueHD The XMC-2 manual is silent on how to get it to identify Atmos so I assume it's automatic, it recognises when an amp is plugged in to height speaker outputs perhaps. I'll try a cold start power down and see if that helps. Anyone got any other suggestions? Cheers Gary If it says truehd in the middle and Atmos above it, I believe it is working correctly. If I remember correctly Atmos is something like a subset of truehd or such. My xmc2 shows truehd in the middle of the osd with Atmos above it. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 26, 2022 0:30:51 GMT -5
… Tried an Atmos sound track from Netflix (from the ATV4K) and the XMC-2 downmixes it to TrueHD, hmmmmm. Different Atmos track this time from Disney, same, downmixed it to TrueHD. Tried a 4K BD with Atmos, same, downmixed to TrueHD The XMC-2 manual is silent on how to get it to identify Atmos so I assume it's automatic, it recognises when an amp is plugged in to height speaker outputs perhaps. I'll try a cold start power down and see if that helps. Anyone got any other suggestions? Cheers Gary To get Atmos from Netflix (in ‘the States’) you have to have their Premium/UHD plan (at least you used to). The TrueHD being displayed from the TV4K (with or without Atmos), is the XMC-2 misidentifying the LPCM from the TV (nobody streams TrueHD). If the G3P identifies and processes Atmos, it will display it automatically. Do you have another TV service with Atmos to test? Sorry, I see you also said Disney, that Atmos has always worked for me with the ‘regular’ plan — you should see TrueHD & Atmos. Edit … I know you’re not using ARC 🙂 |
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 26, 2022 1:46:50 GMT -5
… Tried an Atmos sound track from Netflix (from the ATV4K) and the XMC-2 downmixes it to TrueHD, hmmmmm. Different Atmos track this time from Disney, same, downmixed it to TrueHD. Tried a 4K BD with Atmos, same, downmixed to TrueHD The XMC-2 manual is silent on how to get it to identify Atmos so I assume it's automatic, it recognises when an amp is plugged in to height speaker outputs perhaps. I'll try a cold start power down and see if that helps. Anyone got any other suggestions? Cheers Gary To get Atmos from Netflix (in ‘the States’) you have to have their Premium/UHD plan (at least you used to). The TrueHD being displayed from the TV4K (with or without Atmos), is the XMC-2 misidentifying the LPCM from the TV (nobody streams TrueHD). If the G3P identifies and processes Atmos, it will display it automatically. Do you have another TV service with Atmos to test? Sorry, I see you also said Disney, that Atmos has always worked for me with the ‘regular’ plan — you should see TrueHD & Atmos. Edit … I know you’re not using ARC 🙂 I have a whole mail conversation were many of the ”big names” tell me this ”misidentify” is completely correct and they aren’t allowed to change it anyway.  I told them that NONE of the other manufacturers call MAT/PCM TrueHD. And the source is Dolby Digital Plus, which is lossy. They still wouldn’t understand or were willing to do anything about it. As with many things you suggest that would make this processor even better or correct.. After a while you understand that it’s no use trying to help them because they won’t change anything, even wrong things. So unless it’s a major bug I’m not even mailing them anymore regarding improvements. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 26, 2022 2:02:58 GMT -5
Our processor is NOT going to report LPCM when it is receiving TrueHD - or the reverse. (Attempting to "decode" either one as the other would result in no audio - and they are entirely different formats.)
Dolby MAT is a way of "encapsulating Dolby Atmos inside another format".
In general we report the format we are receiving rather than what is encapsulated inside it. (I don't know exactly how we report MAT inside LPCM.)
Dolby has quite a few requirements about how various formats are supposed to be described...
We follow them as carefully and correctly as we can - but not everybody else does. (For example, if you have a 5.1 channel system, 5.1 channel TrueHD-based Atmos content WILL NOT be described as Atmos, as per Dolby's guidelines.)
How things like Atmos and MAT are handled will also depend, not only on the source SERVICE, but on the source DEVICE. For example an AppleTV is going to send Atmos from Netflix via MAT... but a different device may not.
It's also going to be different if ARC is involved (as far as I know no TV supports MAT via ARC - although they certainly could).
(I'm not the one to talk to about the finer details about which device does it which way.)
To get Atmos from Netflix (in ‘the States’) you have to have their Premium/UHD plan (at least you used to). The TrueHD being displayed from the TV4K (with or without Atmos), is the XMC-2 misidentifying the LPCM from the TV (nobody streams TrueHD). If the G3P identifies and processes Atmos, it will display it automatically. Do you have another TV service with Atmos to test? Sorry, I see you also said Disney, that Atmos has always worked for me with the ‘regular’ plan — you should see TrueHD & Atmos. Edit … I know you’re not using ARC 🙂 I have a whole mail conversation were many of the ”big names” tell me this ”misidentify” is completely correct and they aren’t allowed to change it anyway.  I told them that NONE of the other manufacturers call MAT/PCM TrueHD. And the source is Dolby Digital Plus, which is lossy. They still wouldn’t understand or were willing to do anything about it. As with many things you suggest that would make this processor even better or correct.. After a while you understand that it’s no use trying to help them because they won’t change anything, even wrong things. So unless it’s a major bug I’m not even mailing them anymore regarding improvements. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 26, 2022 2:15:31 GMT -5
To my knowledge there are other processors that also identify the EAC3/MAT package as Atmos & TrueHD, there are also some processors that (more correctly to my thinking) identify it as Atmos & LPCM (or something similar). To be clear, all the processors properly decode the audio as Atmos, it’s only what’s displayed that varies.
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Post by cwt on Feb 26, 2022 4:13:23 GMT -5
To my knowledge there are other processors that also identify the EAC3/MAT package as Atmos & TrueHD, there are also some processors that (more correctly to my thinking) identify it as Atmos & LPCM (or something similar). To be clear, all the processors properly decode the audio as Atmos, it’s only what’s displayed that varies. Probably too much to ask but if Emo could actually ignore the lpcm element [due to lpcm/ MAT encoding] and recognise the actual dd+ source which is on point and actually helpful to illustrate whether one is getting lossy or lossless [ if the gui can actually nominate this codec of course?] . Well then there wouldnt be any lpcm [lossless uncompressed ] and truehd [also lossless but compressed] misidentification  The problem though is the g3p reads the atv's edid as lpcm and not as what it originally was ie dd+ so it cant be accurately described as lossy rather than lossless.. Reminds me of asking once if any dd+ decoding of hddvd actually occurred [and the gui identified this bitstream correctly ? ] this could be an outlier to see if its possible to reroute all the dd+ decoding readout.. Ime sure theres many more factors higher in the pecking order than this though  maybe time for another new firmware request from someone  |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 26, 2022 5:48:29 GMT -5
To my knowledge there are other processors that also identify the EAC3/MAT package as Atmos & TrueHD, there are also some processors that (more correctly to my thinking) identify it as Atmos & LPCM (or something similar). To be clear, all the processors properly decode the audio as Atmos, it’s only what’s displayed that varies. Probably too much to ask but if Emo could actually ignore the lpcm element [due to lpcm/ MAT encoding] and recognise the actual dd+ source which is on point and actually helpful to illustrate whether one is getting lossy or lossless [ if the gui can actually nominate this codec of course?] . Well then there wouldnt be any lpcm [lossless uncompressed ] and truehd [also lossless but compressed] misidentification  The problem though is the g3p reads the atv's edid as lpcm and not as what it originally was ie dd+ so it cant be accurately described as lossy rather than lossless.. Reminds me of asking once if any dd+ decoding of hddvd actually occurred [and the gui identified this bitstream correctly ? ] this could be an outlier to see if its possible to reroute all the dd+ decoding readout.. Ime sure theres many more factors higher in the pecking order than this though  maybe time for another new firmware request from someone  Yes, this. As it’s purely cosmetic (though slightly misleading) I would have it very low on the list. It’s mostly something for people to understand, nothing (currently) coming out of a streaming box is going to be TrueHD. |
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Post by trevorlj on Feb 26, 2022 11:55:54 GMT -5
Apple TV 4K doesn't output DD+ Atmos. It always decodes the track and outputs it in LPCM (w/MAT) format (with what should be zero quality loss). This isn't an Emotiva problem...or even a problem at all. The processor has no idea that it's been previously transcoded.
That said, I wish the Apple TV 4K just passed on the original stream format...but that's a complaint for Apple.
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Post by JKCashin on Feb 26, 2022 13:19:10 GMT -5
So today my XMC-1 (low power standby) came up where even with the volume set to -95dB it was way too loud... except I had it power on to -60dB. It shook my house. I am worried about my speakers now.... anyone else experience this? At -95dB it was as if it was at -40dB! SO yeah..
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 26, 2022 14:40:05 GMT -5
Apple TV 4K doesn't output DD+ Atmos. It always decodes the track and outputs it in LPCM (w/MAT) format (with what should be zero quality loss). This isn't an Emotiva problem...or even a problem at all. The processor has no idea that it's been previously transcoded. That said, I wish the Apple TV 4K just passed on the original stream format...but that's a complaint for Apple. Seems like this is the answer that settles it. Thanks! |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 26, 2022 15:41:15 GMT -5
Apple TV 4K doesn't output DD+ Atmos. It always decodes the track and outputs it in LPCM (w/MAT) format (with what should be zero quality loss). This isn't an Emotiva problem...or even a problem at all. The processor has no idea that it's been previously transcoded. That said, I wish the Apple TV 4K just passed on the original stream format...but that's a complaint for Apple. Seems like this is the answer that settles it. Thanks! Except that this discussion came about because of Gary Cook’s original post, and we still don’t know the resolution of his situation. This has all been said before, and when someone gets a new G3P and sees TrueHD from a streamer, it will likely come up again. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 26, 2022 19:32:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the input guys, answers to questions;
I am streaming from the current generation Apple TV4k 120hz
I'm in Australia and we only have one level of streaming from Netflix, AppleTV+, Disney etc etc.
If the program has it then they have the top level video (4K HDR or Dolby Vision) and the top level audio (Atmos, DTS-X).
The BD player is a Sony 4K (also used for playing SACD's).
I seem to have resolved the issue with a cold restart of the XMC-2 and when I played a DTS-X movie (Gladiator) the height speakers had output. When I switched back to an Atmos source the height speakers were also now working.
The display still says Atmos on the first line and Dolby True HD on the second line, but as Keith explained that is normal.
Onto the positive, the sound is awesome, played a few SACD's this morning and streamed a couple of series last night, very impressed. I really didn't expect much of an improvement over the XMC-1, but there definitely is, not night and day, but well worth it. Things like helicopters flying overhead are amazing, previously they went through you, now they go over you.
Another question, I have set all the 5.1.2 distances and balanced the levels and the overheads were quite dominant, I've knocked them down a couple of DB and it sounds more appropriate. Has anyone else experienced the same? FIW we have raked ceilings so the heights don't point straight down, they are angled towards the viewers.
Cheers
Gary
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Feb 26, 2022 19:47:37 GMT -5
Another question, I have set all the 5.1.2 distances and balanced the levels and the overheads were quite dominant, I've knocked them down a couple of DB and it sounds more appropriate. Has anyone else experienced the same? FIW we have raked ceilings so the heights don't point straight down, they are angled towards the viewers. Cheers Gary Glad you got some things sorted. My Tops are not dominant. But, how much usage and how loud they play is movie dependent. They are each angled towards the MLP. My favorite immersive movie is the 4K ATMOS version of Blade Runner, The Final Cut. The audio is spectacular!  |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 27, 2022 10:18:47 GMT -5
are there any news about DLBC? It would be nice to have as I finally got a second sub. But Emotiva has gone radio silent with not only this but just in general about G3P. Might be time for a miniDSP and give up on DLBC. Which I am not ready for yet, because this means I won’t be getting DLBC even if/when they come out with it. |
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Post by marcl on Feb 27, 2022 10:35:47 GMT -5
are there any news about DLBC? It would be nice to have as I finally got a second sub. But Emotiva has gone radio silent with not only this but just in general about G3P. Might be time for a miniDSP and give up on DLBC. Which I am not ready for yet, because this means I won’t be getting DLBC even if/when they come out with it. I really wonder if it's worth it at this point. I get really good results using a miniDSP 2x4 Balanced and two subs, along with Dirac Live. I'm certainly capable of tweaking crossovers for best results by doing REW measurements. So the only thing left that I know of is some possible extra phase alignment between pairs of speakers and the subs that I can't do in the G3P. I'm not really sure about that, or how audible the benefit would be. I wonder if anyone has done a real comparison of a DLBC implementation with two or four subs vs a miniDSP + Dirac Live.. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 27, 2022 11:01:34 GMT -5
It would be nice to have as I finally got a second sub. But Emotiva has gone radio silent with not only this but just in general about G3P. Might be time for a miniDSP and give up on DLBC. Which I am not ready for yet, because this means I won’t be getting DLBC even if/when they come out with it. I get really good results using a miniDSP 2x4 Balanced and two subs, along with Dirac Live. I'm certainly capable of tweaking crossovers for best results by doing REW measurements. So the only thing left that I know of is some possible extra phase alignment between pairs of speakers and the subs that I can't do in the G3P. I'm not really sure about that, or how audible the benefit would be. I wonder if anyone has done a real comparison of a DLBC implementation with two or four subs vs a miniDSP + Dirac Live.. I would still have to say yes (if it’s possible). For a variety of reasons I don’t want to go the miniDSP route, nor think I should have to — even if those of you who have done so are getting great results. If Emotiva were to come out and say DLBC isn’t possible with the G3Ps, I’d probably buy another processor that already supports it. They have continually said they plan to support it, but the language has been pretty vague of late, and given the EDNIB solution for Dirac Live, I’m sure it’s been quite a challenge. I think the miniDSB is probably a great solution for those who want to go the distance, but I guess I’m not there. |
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Post by 5channels on Feb 27, 2022 12:20:44 GMT -5
are there any news about DLBC? It would be nice to have as I finally got a second sub. But Emotiva has gone radio silent with not only this but just in general about G3P. Might be time for a miniDSP and give up on DLBC. Which I am not ready for yet, because this means I won’t be getting DLBC even if/when they come out with it. "Radio silent"....what do you mean? Haven't you been getting emails from the folks in marketing. I suppose the minds at EMO think the release of 2.5 buys them at least another six-months...then we will get 2.5.1. I say they owe us a podcast, mapping out what they are actually working on for us RMC/XMC owners. Now if you will excuse me, I am off to stare at the blue lights of my "toy computer" and bite my tongue. |
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Post by jbrunwa on Feb 27, 2022 13:39:54 GMT -5
are there any news about DLBC? It would be nice to have as I finally got a second sub. But Emotiva has gone radio silent with not only this but just in general about G3P. Might be time for a miniDSP and give up on DLBC. Which I am not ready for yet, because this means I won’t be getting DLBC even if/when they come out with it. Although I am now very happy using an AV40 with DLBC, I previously used an XMC-2 with miniDSP 2x4 HD. I can’t test this, but I suspect that with 2.5 bass management improvement, XMC-2 with miniDSP subwoofer management would sound just as good in my room as the AV40 with DLBC. The main thing DLBC brings me is ease of use and one less outboard thing. I don’t have multiple subs any more, (single Rythmik FV-18 PC) but when I had multiple subs between the miniDSP and individual onboard sub PEQ gave me a good result, so if I had a XMC-2/miniDSP again I would be happy. |
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maybe time for another new firmware request from someone 
