|
|
Post by jasonf on Aug 5, 2022 23:40:27 GMT -5
Ok team I’ve pulled the trigger and sold my XMC2 for an AVM70. Just wanted to say thanks to all who helped me along the rocky journey that was this processor. Congrats! That's a great looking processor! It's on my radar too, but I'm holding out for RMC updates because I'm a sucker for the fully balanced DACs  |
|
|
|
Post by rovinggecko on Aug 6, 2022 1:51:19 GMT -5
Since the hubbub about a leaking 'holy grail' firmware release I've been checking here very frequently, to avoid I am not missing out. Will Emotiva send a regular email through the standard mailing list to announce the release of this new, major, firmware? This will avoid me checking on a regular basis for something I had expected to be imminent, but looks more like it will become a Christmas present. (and thus save daily disappointment ). |
|
|
|
Post by thezone on Aug 6, 2022 3:41:54 GMT -5
Ok team I’ve pulled the trigger and sold my XMC2 for an AVM70. Just wanted to say thanks to all who helped me along the rocky journey that was this processor. Pity the Anthem does not allow LFE and bass management to be sent independently to different subwoofers. This I see is one of EMO's strenghts. I don't know of any other processor which can facilitate this. And its something that I find invaluable with my set up. |
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Aug 6, 2022 4:20:07 GMT -5
Ok team I’ve pulled the trigger and sold my XMC2 for an AVM70. Just wanted to say thanks to all who helped me along the rocky journey that was this processor. Pity the Anthem does not allow LFE and bass management to be sent independently to different subwoofers. This I see is one of EMO's strenghts. I don't know of any other processor which can facilitate this. And its something that I find invaluable with my set up. It’s a plus for those that like to tinker. Nothing more! StormAudio, Trinnov and the big ones can all do this and more. Yes, Emotiva are alone in the ”normal” price class. Most really serious setups do not use separate LFE and BM.. Properly setup and with quality subwoofers you shouldn’t need to separate them. Not knowing what you do can also cause other things. As you are pretty much adding another bass source in your room. It’s like using large fronts. Some like it, but seriously setup HT don’t use large fronts. Unless calibrated together, which we can’t do on Emotiva, using several bass sources is not recommended. It’s like using left and right subwoofer independant outputs. Yes, Dirac will calibrate each on their own. But not together. That’s why many use external devices for better control of each subwoofer then letting RMC/XMC see only one subwoofer. Thus letting Dirac calibrate them together. There are of course exceptions to all things. Dirac Bass Control will give us the control we want to calibrate different bass sources together. |
|
|
|
Post by jasonf on Aug 6, 2022 4:28:49 GMT -5
Ok team I’ve pulled the trigger and sold my XMC2 for an AVM70. Just wanted to say thanks to all who helped me along the rocky journey that was this processor. Pity the Anthem does not allow LFE and bass management to be sent independently to different subwoofers. This I see is one of EMO's strenghts. I don't know of any other processor which can facilitate this. And its something that I find invaluable with my set up. Glad you're enjoying that feature, but wow... that sub sub sub sub sub niche. |
|
|
|
Post by thezone on Aug 6, 2022 9:03:49 GMT -5
I find it quite simple. One sub at the front of the room for BM which acts as a low end extension of the mains, one sub at the back of the room which takes care of the LFE track.
Makes sense to me, otherwise you are asking each sub to simultaneously output two completely different signals, eg the BM from all speakers plus the LFE track, all completely separately mixed signals out of the same speaker? How could that one speaker accurately output two completely different large wave signals at the same time?
This way, I find for music the full range of sound eminates from the one place and sounds more tight, BM sounds fake if it comes from a different place than the main speakers. It also allows me to take advantage of the unique roll offs on the RS13's, the sub at the front used for BM I have set to "Flat", which rolls off at around 30hz, and the one at the rear for LFE I have set to "Deep" which allows for a response flat from 16 Hz up.
So music sounds brilliant at the front, and movies or anything with an LFE track sounds thunderous into the couch and vibrates the windows!
Funny how only the most expensive processors also allow for this. Tells me EMO were onto something here.
Well it works for me anyway.
|
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator 
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,821
|
Post by LCSeminole on Aug 6, 2022 10:42:14 GMT -5
Pity the Anthem does not allow LFE and bass management to be sent independently to different subwoofers. This I see is one of EMO's strenghts. I don't know of any other processor which can facilitate this. And its something that I find invaluable with my set up. It’s a plus for those that like to tinker. Nothing more! StormAudio, Trinnov and the big ones can all do this and more. Yes, Emotiva are alone in the ”normal” price class. Most really serious setups do not use separate LFE and BM.. Properly setup and with quality subwoofers you shouldn’t need to separate them. Not knowing what you do can also cause other things. As you are pretty much adding another bass source in your room. It’s like using large fronts. Some like it, but seriously setup HT don’t use large fronts. I know several Lounge members that are using this feature and consider themselves quite serious about their home theater setup and these members most definitely know what they’re doing . |
|
|
|
Post by geebo on Aug 6, 2022 10:58:52 GMT -5
It’s a plus for those that like to tinker. Nothing more! StormAudio, Trinnov and the big ones can all do this and more. Yes, Emotiva are alone in the ”normal” price class. Most really serious setups do not use separate LFE and BM.. Properly setup and with quality subwoofers you shouldn’t need to separate them. Not knowing what you do can also cause other things. As you are pretty much adding another bass source in your room. It’s like using large fronts. Some like it, but seriously setup HT don’t use large fronts. I know several Lounge members that are using this feature and consider themselves quite serious about their home theater setup and these members most definitely know what they’re doing . I have an SVS SB-16 Ultra that I have configured as a lone mono sub on preset 1 and add an HSU ULS-15 MkII on preset 2 as an LFE sub. Preset 1 is for music and preset 2 is for movies. I have tested my configuration in many different ways over a long period of time and this is what works best for me. I like the feature and consider it important and very useful. |
|
|
|
Post by marcl on Aug 6, 2022 12:06:00 GMT -5
On this topic of separating BM and LFE, rather than express my opinion I'll ask a few questions: - Can a subwoofer designed to output high dynamic range LFE down to 20Hz or below, also play "musical" bass above 80Hz (or even 60Hz) and up to the requirements of many surround and Atmos speakers crossed over at 100Hz to 150Hz?
- Will multichannel music - and now including Atmos/Spatial - sound as good with bass from the LFE sub, as it would with bass from large fronts down to a reasonable 40-50Hz?
- With Atmos mixes in movies now including dialogue, music and just about anything else (i.e. not just "sound effects") being steered through the mix by ALL speakers, will that sound as good with bass from the LFE sub as it would from large fronts?
The questions are about the "qualities" of low frequency sound reproduction demanded by LFE, vs the qualities demanded by Bass Management playing the bottom 2-3 octaves for music and all other content.
|
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Aug 6, 2022 16:13:01 GMT -5
It’s a plus for those that like to tinker. Nothing more! StormAudio, Trinnov and the big ones can all do this and more. Yes, Emotiva are alone in the ”normal” price class. Most really serious setups do not use separate LFE and BM.. Properly setup and with quality subwoofers you shouldn’t need to separate them. Not knowing what you do can also cause other things. As you are pretty much adding another bass source in your room. It’s like using large fronts. Some like it, but seriously setup HT don’t use large fronts. I know several Lounge members that are using this feature and consider themselves quite serious about their home theater setup and these members most definitely know what they’re doing . I’m serious about my HT also. It doesn’t mean I have a serious setup. In my meaning. What I meant with that is professionally setup. Acoustic, placement as well as calibration. The last part we can’t do on Emotiva gear yet. Acoustic fixes I guess many do. But how many have had a professional at their home measuring and then placing them at the optimal places? Not everyone can have or don’t want to have optimal placement of their speakers due to different reasons. Yes, I’m aware that many are very knowledgable here. But even so other things mentioned above still hinder them. When we get Dirac Bass Control having several bass sources in your room will be alot easier even though not optimal. |
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Aug 6, 2022 16:28:05 GMT -5
I find it quite simple. One sub at the front of the room for BM which acts as a low end extension of the mains, one sub at the back of the room which takes care of the LFE track. Makes sense to me, otherwise you are asking each sub to simultaneously output two completely different signals, eg the BM from all speakers plus the LFE track, all completely separately mixed signals out of the same speaker? How could that one speaker accurately output two completely different large wave signals at the same time? This way, I find for music the full range of sound eminates from the one place and sounds more tight, BM sounds fake if it comes from a different place than the main speakers. It also allows me to take advantage of the unique roll offs on the RS13's, the sub at the front used for BM I have set to "Flat", which rolls off at around 30hz, and the one at the rear for LFE I have set to "Deep" which allows for a response flat from 16 Hz up. So music sounds brilliant at the front, and movies or anything with an LFE track sounds thunderous into the couch and vibrates the windows! Funny how only the most expensive processors also allow for this. Tells me EMO were onto something here. Well it works for me anyway. I have both my subs on eqidistance from MLP on the inside of each front speaker. They are daisy chained. Dirac and RMC sees them as one. I want to have four subs. But I need to do some changes in my room before that’s possible. This placement is very good for music. And because they are ”only” 12” subs they are pretty fast. Only when playing really fast bass I feel they can’t really keep up with only using the fronts as large. I have also compared this setup a lot to using large. Which feels like, although tighter, has less bass volume/pressure. I have made a special music curve in Dirac were I started a roll off at 40hz, . First slow then a steep fall below 30hz. I thought it sounded really good with some music. With others it lacked bass. Depending on were the bass frequency was most used in the music. I still use this calibration most of the time. As it sounds tighter, almost like my fronts in large but with more bass volume. edit: the expensive processors don’t add features because it’s good or better. They add them because some customers want to have those features. This is a thing Emotiva could learn from. |
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,821
|
Post by LCSeminole on Aug 6, 2022 16:28:07 GMT -5
I know several Lounge members that are using this feature and consider themselves quite serious about their home theater setup and these members most definitely know what they’re doing . I’m serious about my HT also. It doesn’t mean I have a serious setup. In my meaning. What I meant with that is professionally setup. Acoustic, placement as well as calibration. The last part we can’t do on Emotiva gear yet. Acoustic fixes I guess many do. But how many have had a professional at their home measuring and then placing them at the optimal places? Not everyone can have or don’t want to have optimal placement of their speakers due to different reasons. Yes, I’m aware that many are very knowledgable here. But even so other things mentioned above still hinder them. When we get Dirac Bass Control having several bass sources in your room will be alot easier even though not optimal. While the majority are exactly what you describe, they want a set it and forget it approach and be satisfied(myself I'm in between), I know quite a few members here that go to great lengths with acoustic panels/bass trap/etc, and take the time to find the best speaker positioning(which I'm doing now with a whole new speaker system by ear) which then goes hand-in-hand with REW(taking measurements which I won't be doing) which I know personally a few professionals that use REW for there audio calibrations. So there are quite a few that do all three, and more power to them as they want every last drop of musicality perfection they can tweek. |
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Aug 6, 2022 16:45:57 GMT -5
I’m serious about my HT also. It doesn’t mean I have a serious setup. In my meaning. What I meant with that is professionally setup. Acoustic, placement as well as calibration. The last part we can’t do on Emotiva gear yet. Acoustic fixes I guess many do. But how many have had a professional at their home measuring and then placing them at the optimal places? Not everyone can have or don’t want to have optimal placement of their speakers due to different reasons. Yes, I’m aware that many are very knowledgable here. But even so other things mentioned above still hinder them. When we get Dirac Bass Control having several bass sources in your room will be alot easier even though not optimal. While the majority are exactly what you describe, they want a set it and forget it approach and be satisfied(myself I'm in between), I know quite a few members here that go to great lengths with acoustic panels/bass trap/etc, and take the time to find the best speaker positioning(which I'm doing now with a whole new speaker system by ear) which then goes hand-in-hand with REW(taking measurements which I won't be doing) which I know personally a few professionals that use REW for there audio calibrations. So there are quite a few that do all three, and more power to them as they want every last drop of musicality perfection they can tweek. Yes, I must admit that there are more using Emotiva processors that do all things. But still, knowing how to use REW does not mean one can understand acoustics. Personally I can’t say I know either. However I try understand by reading up and watching a lot of videos on youtube. Here we hire people that come to your home and ”build” your HT. Measure exactly were the bass traps, dampenings or diffusions should be placed. This is really expensive, especially if they build everything as well. But you can buy a measurement only and then do the build yourself. I guess it’s more ”normal” to do these big HT builds in US. Here in Sweden these are less frequent and a lot more expensive to do. |
|
xeno
Minor Hero
Posts: 50
|
Post by xeno on Aug 6, 2022 18:18:02 GMT -5
Few new issues with my RMC-1L. Changing from one source to another usually results in volume so loud that I have to lower the volume to -90 (normal listening is set to -45).
Either that or the sound is very tinny. Many more clicks and pops that I have ever had as well. One is a metered pop...pop...pop from the left back speaker for about 10 seconds on startup.
Would a factory reset do anything? I've unplugged the unit for several hours with same results. Even my kids are asking when the new firmware is coming. LOL
|
|
|
|
Post by geebo on Aug 6, 2022 18:31:33 GMT -5
Few new issues with my RMC-1L. Changing from one source to another usually results in volume so loud that I have to lower the volume to -90 (normal listening is set to -45). Either that or the sound is very tinny. Many more clicks and pops that I have ever had as well. One is a metered pop...pop...pop from the left back speaker for about 10 seconds on startup. Would a factory reset do anything? I've unplugged the unit for several hours with same results. Even my kids are asking when the new firmware is coming. LOL
Wow, -45 here is pretty low volume and -90 is pretty much silent. Has it always been doing this or did it just start? Very odd that two sources would be 45dB apart on the volume control. |
|
xeno
Minor Hero
Posts: 50
|
Post by xeno on Aug 6, 2022 18:52:40 GMT -5
Yes, -90 is usually dead silent. Usually.
I have the unit set to -45 at startup. Sometimes it's crazy loud, sometimes it's normal (I've rebooted several times with the same issue).
This just started last night when I got home from work. We just had a pretty powerful thunderstorm roll through but I had called my son to unplug everything as soon as I started hearing the rumble of thunder.
Maybe a bit paranoid but I've seen lightning hit my neighbors attic window, and set a mattress he had stored up there on fire.
|
|
|
|
Post by PaulBe on Aug 6, 2022 18:53:54 GMT -5
On this topic of separating BM and LFE, rather than express my opinion I'll ask a few questions: - Can a subwoofer designed to output high dynamic range LFE down to 20Hz or below, also play "musical" bass above 80Hz (or even 60Hz) and up to the requirements of many surround and Atmos speakers crossed over at 100Hz to 150Hz?
- Will multichannel music - and now including Atmos/Spatial - sound as good with bass from the LFE sub, as it would with bass from large fronts down to a reasonable 40-50Hz?
- With Atmos mixes in movies now including dialogue, music and just about anything else (i.e. not just "sound effects") being steered through the mix by ALL speakers, will that sound as good with bass from the LFE sub as it would from large fronts?
The questions are about the "qualities" of low frequency sound reproduction demanded by LFE, vs the qualities demanded by Bass Management playing the bottom 2-3 octaves for music and all other content.
I think there is no conflict between good LFE and good BM bass. There is also no conflict with both coming out of the same Sub(s). Integration in bass management matters a lot. Minimizing bass localization issues matters - keep the x-over frequency as low as possible while also keeping the group delay low. Actual x-over frequency should be determined by the roll-off frequency of all the speakers included in bass management, but, should not be higher than about 1/2 the Schroeder frequency of the room. In my case, the compromise is 50Hz for the whole system, for all the channels. The RMC could use finer frequency control for bass management. 10Hz changes are too far apart. My 2 Subs are inside the L&R channels, and each centered respectively at the left and right outside edges of the TV. The Subs are about 6' apart; Center to center. The Subs don't require any individual/different EQ or timing differences, though I could use the DSP in the sub amps if needed. I use the RMC Center Sub output, and parallel inputs at the sub amps internally. Left and right RMC Sub outputs are dedicated to Height channels. Setting the distance of the Sub(s) to a slightly longer distance than physical distance can help. Longer set distance in the RMC = less delay. BM bass and LFE timing sound more precise. It is hard to integrate ported systems with any Sub. My main 7 channels are ported, with all the ports heavily resistively damped to limit group delay and BM integration problems. Room gain roll-UP tends to compliment closed box roll-off. Match the frequencies and you are good to roll. The RMC 12dB/Oct x-over works best in my situation. I high-pass the sealed Subs at their roll-off frequency of 27Hz; 12dB/Oct; butterworth filter. Also added +1.5dB of PEQ gain at 20Hz; Q = .5. DSP used is in the sub amps. This minimizes group delay of the Subs, and complements the 9dB/Oct roll-UP of room gain that starts at right around 27Hz. It's working very well. I wish I could say I planned it all perfectly. Some of it was planned. The rest is serendipity. I used to play all the channels full range. This BM setup is my preset 1. Full range is my preset 2. I bounced back and forth for a little while. My short answer for you is - Quality is quality. When it's hot it's hot. When it's not it's not. And, when the quality is not there, no amount of quantity will make up for it - it becomes an exercise in tail chasing. The Subs don't care if it's BM bass or LFE. Hey EMO! How about some finer frequency control in the Sub BM x-over? Please. |
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,821
|
Post by LCSeminole on Aug 6, 2022 19:06:21 GMT -5
Yes, -90 is usually dead silent. Usually.
I have the unit set to -45 at startup. Sometimes it's crazy loud, sometimes it's normal (I've rebooted several times with the same issue).
This just started last night when I got home from work. We just had a pretty powerful thunderstorm roll through but I had called my son to unplug everything as soon as I started hearing the rumble of thunder. Maybe a bit paranoid but I've seen lightning hit my neighbors attic window, and set a mattress he had stored up there on fire.
Do you use “video remains on” or “low power standby”? If “video remains on”, when was your last cold boot? If it has been a while you may want to consider a cold boot, as this is no different than a computer that needs to be rebooted from time to time. |
|
|
|
Post by wizardofoz on Aug 7, 2022 8:21:34 GMT -5
I solved a lot of issues with mine by taking off the top cover and reseating a few loose ribbon cables that must have managed to get dislodged in shipping. But I also reseated everything that looks vaguely able to be replugged without any issues (I do repair audio gear however so I know what I’m doing)
This was a year or 2 back and things improved a lot after that, plus a blown capacitor which I documented here…probably put in in reverse as manufacturing.
|
|
xeno
Minor Hero
Posts: 50
|
Post by xeno on Aug 7, 2022 21:39:48 GMT -5
Yes, -90 is usually dead silent. Usually.
I have the unit set to -45 at startup. Sometimes it's crazy loud, sometimes it's normal (I've rebooted several times with the same issue).
This just started last night when I got home from work. We just had a pretty powerful thunderstorm roll through but I had called my son to unplug everything as soon as I started hearing the rumble of thunder. Maybe a bit paranoid but I've seen lightning hit my neighbors attic window, and set a mattress he had stored up there on fire.
Do you use “video remains on” or “low power standby”? If “video remains on”, when was your last cold boot? If it has been a while you may want to consider a cold boot, as this is no different than a computer that needs to be rebooted from time to time. I have it set to LPS because VRO locks it up every time. It will simply sit at "no signal" until I put it back to low power mode. It's been cold booted a few times now. Funny though, it has worked fine all day and I've had it powered up and down a few times. Picky little thing. |
|
