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Post by jim80z on Sept 2, 2022 1:31:24 GMT -5
I would be remiss if I didn't remind everyone of something here... When you use something like a MiniDSP... You are taking an analog audio signal and converting it back into digital (at the input of the MiniDSP)... Then you are applying additional digital processing to that signal... And you are then converting it back into analog again (at the output of the MiniDSP)... So you are adding two more digital<->analog conversions to the audio signal chain... And you are also adding some additional analog circuitry... and interconnects... and connectors... at the inputs and outputs. And you also need to be sure to match your levels going in and out to avoid raising the noise floor or overloading anything... So you need to be sure that all of that extra complexity really will result in a significant overall improvement. This is why we’d prefer to use DLBC 🙂😉 And extra Balanced Output cards for the RMC-1 that can have multiple sub outs with it. Dear Emotiva any word on these expansion cards being released? |
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Post by sebna on Sept 2, 2022 7:47:39 GMT -5
Does XMC-1 remote app for Android also works with XMC-2 or is there no Android version of the App?
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Post by 5channels on Sept 2, 2022 7:58:54 GMT -5
I know from using the XMC-1 app on the iPhone, the experience was extremely inconsistent. The updated app functions more consistently.
It is a sore point with me, and I often kick myself for assuming I was getting a "modern" experience from a "modern" product, that there is no proper implementation of an app on either iOS or Android, and also that the processors lack a web management interface. I bet you were excited when you first witnessed the retro OSD. I know I had to check my calendar to make sure it wasn't still 1995.
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Post by doc1963 on Sept 2, 2022 8:19:39 GMT -5
I know from using the XMC-1 app on the iPhone, the experience was extremely inconsistent. The updated app functions more consistently. It is a sore point with me, and I often kick myself for assuming I was getting a "modern" experience from a "modern" product, that there is no proper implementation of an app on either iOS or Android, and also that the processors lack a web management interface. I bet you were excited when you first witnessed the retro OSD. I know I had to check my calendar to make sure it wasn't still 1995. While in some respects, I agree with your basic point (mostly the web GUI), there's always going to be "haves" and "have nots" among us. I've seen just as many people complain about those "newer' processors not having an OSD and not wanting to have to access their desktop computer, laptop, tablet or smartphone just to make a simple change to their setup. So as clunky and outdated as the G3P's OSD might seem to be, it works. And you don't need anything other than your remote to use it. Then, there's the "modern" D&M products who, even though they fully support 8K, has a very intuitive GUI that generates itself at 480p. Now we can talk about circa 1995...  |
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Post by ElectricKoolAid on Sept 2, 2022 8:36:20 GMT -5
I know from using the XMC-1 app on the iPhone, the experience was extremely inconsistent. The updated app functions more consistently. It is a sore point with me, and I often kick myself for assuming I was getting a "modern" experience from a "modern" product, that there is no proper implementation of an app on either iOS or Android, and also that the processors lack a web management interface. I bet you were excited when you first witnessed the retro OSD. I know I had to check my calendar to make sure it wasn't still 1995. While in some respects, I agree with your basic point (mostly the web GUI), there's always going to be "haves" and "have nots" among us. I've seen just as many people complain about those "newer' processors not having an OSD and not wanting to have to access their desktop computer, laptop, tablet or smartphone just to make a simple change to their setup. So as clunky and outdated as the G3P's OSD might seem to be, it works. And you don't need anything other than your remote to use it. Then, there's the "modern" D&M products who, even though they fully support 8K, has a very intuitive GUI that generates itself at 480p. Now we can talk about circa 1995... I think a good balance would be keeping the current OSD as is and just adding support for a web UI. Most OSD's are probably going to be knee capped due to the video cards or lack there of on these types of devices I'm assuming, so keeping a simple, no frills OSD for those who just want to do some quick changes and then a more robust web UI seems like the most logical option to me. |
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Post by 5channels on Sept 2, 2022 8:38:42 GMT -5
I know from using the XMC-1 app on the iPhone, the experience was extremely inconsistent. The updated app functions more consistently. It is a sore point with me, and I often kick myself for assuming I was getting a "modern" experience from a "modern" product, that there is no proper implementation of an app on either iOS or Android, and also that the processors lack a web management interface. I bet you were excited when you first witnessed the retro OSD. I know I had to check my calendar to make sure it wasn't still 1995. While in some respects, I agree with your basic point (mostly the web GUI), there's always going to be "haves" and "have nots" among us. I've seen just as many people complain about those "newer' processors not having an OSD and not wanting to have to access their desktop computer, laptop, tablet or smartphone just to make a simple change to their setup. So as clunky and outdated as the G3P's OSD might seem to be, it works. And you don't need anything other than your remote to use it. Then, there's the "modern" D&M products who, even though they fully support 8K, has a very intuitive GUI that generates itself at 480p. Now we can talk about circa 1995... Cheers, but with that 480p OSD, you can choose from a variety of options on one screen, so it is most certainly a step in the correct direction and definitely at least 400p betterer  |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 2, 2022 8:44:54 GMT -5
Does XMC-1 remote app for Android also works with XMC-2 or is there no Android version of the App? Here’s a link to the Emotiva Remote App V3 ThreadThere are reports there that some Android OS / phone combos worked with the V1 version of the App, and a G3P. I tried to document to combo’s (link on fist post), but had few reporters. So I’m generally going to say no, the V1 Android app does not work for most people. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Sept 2, 2022 9:25:55 GMT -5
Obviously different folks among us have very different wants and needs in this regard. Also, to be quite blunt, we are a long way off from a fully integrated "user experience". With a true fully integrated experience you'd never see the menu on your processor, or your cable box, or your AppleTV... And the "guide" from your cable company would look exactly like the menu from NetFlix on your AppleTV... And you could navigate both of them using the same navigation buttons or controls... Because they would all be controlled from your favorite manager app... And that would control every device you own... But we all know that we're a long way from that lofty goal... And, no, Alexa will NEVER work for me... I don't even want to think about how long it would take Alexa to read "the list of all the shows on cable in the next half hour"... That's a list that I really want to see in print, on a screen, sorted by category... (And, no, I don't want to see ten screens of "album cover art" either... I want a nice clean text list for that.) Some people like to use a pretty Web-based GUI for everything... While others resent having to fire up a web browser to change TV channels... I personally use the GUI when I'm setting things up... then I never touch it after that. I don't need a screen full of information to change Inputs or switch between Modes or Speaker Presets... In fact, for simple changes or choices, I usually don't look at the screen at all... I just use the front panel... And, for individual key choices like selecting an Input, I don't look at all... I just push the button... I personally would like a fancier Web GUI - and we are working on one. But, personally, I'll NEVER be using it on a phone... The screen on my phone is too small for a GUI that shows a lot of information... To me that belongs on a nice big full-sized computer screen... And I personally don't particularly like touch screens on remote controls (and my cat likes them a bit too much)... The main thing to remember is that each of these options requires some amount of development work and testing. A really nice Web GUI is a major programming project... You can bet that folks like Roku and Apple spend a lot of effort on things like their menus and GUIs... (And, after all that effort, very few people still find either of those to be "wholly satisfying and without faults"... ) As I said... we are working on a nicer Web GUI for our big processors... But it is a big project and it isn't going to be done tomorrow... I know from using the XMC-1 app on the iPhone, the experience was extremely inconsistent. The updated app functions more consistently. It is a sore point with me, and I often kick myself for assuming I was getting a "modern" experience from a "modern" product, that there is no proper implementation of an app on either iOS or Android, and also that the processors lack a web management interface. I bet you were excited when you first witnessed the retro OSD. I know I had to check my calendar to make sure it wasn't still 1995. While in some respects, I agree with your basic point (mostly the web GUI), there's always going to be "haves" and "have nots" among us. I've seen just as many people complain about those "newer' processors not having an OSD and not wanting to have to access their desktop computer, laptop, tablet or smartphone just to make a simple change to their setup. So as clunky and outdated as the G3P's OSD might seem to be, it works. And you don't need anything other than your remote to use it. Then, there's the "modern" D&M products who, even though they fully support 8K, has a very intuitive GUI that generates itself at 480p. Now we can talk about circa 1995... |
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Post by 5channels on Sept 2, 2022 9:41:11 GMT -5
Keith said: I personally would like a fancier Web GUI - and we are working on one.
But, personally, I'll NEVER be using it on a phone...
The screen on my phone is too small for a GUI that shows a lot of information...
To me that belongs on a nice big full-sized computer screen...
And I personally don't particularly like touch screens on remote controls (and my cat likes them a bit too much)...
Don't exclude iPads and Tablets from the equation, I actually think they are a larger part of the equation than a PC or Smartphone. That is why I used the terms iOS and Android, I didn't want to tie it to a device. I personally use the app on an iPad Pro, obviously the GUI is large enough to allow easy navigation. As a web browser is available across the board, maybe that is a better place to focus on as opposed to Apps
Cheers
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 2, 2022 10:19:07 GMT -5
Keith said: I personally would like a fancier Web GUI - and we are working on one. But, personally, I'll NEVER be using it on a phone... The screen on my phone is too small for a GUI that shows a lot of information... To me that belongs on a nice big full-sized computer screen... And I personally don't particularly like touch screens on remote controls (and my cat likes them a bit too much)... Don't exclude iPads and Tablets from the equation, I actually think they are a larger part of the equation than a PC or Smartphone. That is why I used the terms iOS and Android, I didn't want to tie it to a device. I personally use the app on an iPad Pro, obviously the GUI is large enough to allow easy navigation. As a web browser is available across the board, maybe that is a better place to focus on as opposed to Apps Cheers I felt the same way when I read that, I don’t want to have to get on my desktop or laptop to setup my processor or make changes (I use my iPad for probably 80-90% of my computer needs). As long as the interface is a browser, and not an app, that should cover all devices, but if someone decided to write say a Windows App, that would be a real problem. |
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Post by trevorlj on Sept 2, 2022 10:22:29 GMT -5
Please correct me if I am wrong, but currently having 16 channels without DTS:X Pro and DSU v3 is not really that useful as 99% of object audio content is coded for 11 channels and without those upmixers having more than 4 height channels does not really make sense? Is that correct?
I'm running a RMC-1L in a 9.1.6 config. If you're talking Disney/Marvel mixes you would be correct about that 99%. Otherwise, if I had to assign a number only like 20-30% of other studios/titles are locked to 7.1.4 or 7.1.2. There are quite a few great mixes out there that make full use of the format (especially when you consider available Netflix Atmos content). Side note: no offense to the team but I'm not excited about the bug fixes they're working...my processor works decent enough.  What I am excited about is the prospect of cross-mixing + DTS:X Pro + DSU v3. |
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Post by ElectricKoolAid on Sept 2, 2022 10:29:32 GMT -5
Keith said: I personally would like a fancier Web GUI - and we are working on one. But, personally, I'll NEVER be using it on a phone... The screen on my phone is too small for a GUI that shows a lot of information... To me that belongs on a nice big full-sized computer screen... And I personally don't particularly like touch screens on remote controls (and my cat likes them a bit too much)... Don't exclude iPads and Tablets from the equation, I actually think they are a larger part of the equation than a PC or Smartphone. That is why I used the terms iOS and Android, I didn't want to tie it to a device. I personally use the app on an iPad Pro, obviously the GUI is large enough to allow easy navigation. As a web browser is available across the board, maybe that is a better place to focus on as opposed to Apps Cheers I felt the same way when I read that, I don’t want to have to get on my desktop or laptop to setup my processor or make changes (I use my iPad for probably 80-90% of my computer needs). As long as the interface is a browser, and not an app, that should cover all devices, but if someone decided to write say a Windows App, that would be a real problem. Please for the love of all that is holy do not make it a Windows App...lol Yes I agree with others, I think completely removing the OSD or the availability to make changes just with the remote is a backwards step. That's why I would be fine to leave the OSD in it's basic form as it is. I don't want to speak for everyone but I think the addition of a modern web based UI (not an app tied to iOS and Android as others have said) opens up the possibility of doing that from any device that has a web browser, PC, Mac, Tablet, or Phones. I would not necessarily need to use the web UI very often, but it would be extremely handy for when you need to make multiple changes, getting ready to run Dirac, etc. There is also the possibility of improving and adding more advanced features that cannot really be done from an OSD, as I mentioned previously the HTP-1 has the ability to do things like load Bass EQ filters directly into the PEQ of the device directly from the web UI (thanks to a custom web UI from PinkSoda over on AVS) which takes the MiniDSP out of the equation for those of us who like to do things like that....something to consider... I understand this is no small undertaking from a development side, but I personally think it would pay off by legitimizing these processors as modern competitors to the other brands out there who are already doing this. |
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Post by geebo on Sept 2, 2022 10:35:09 GMT -5
Keith said: I personally would like a fancier Web GUI - and we are working on one. But, personally, I'll NEVER be using it on a phone... The screen on my phone is too small for a GUI that shows a lot of information... To me that belongs on a nice big full-sized computer screen... And I personally don't particularly like touch screens on remote controls (and my cat likes them a bit too much)... Don't exclude iPads and Tablets from the equation, I actually think they are a larger part of the equation than a PC or Smartphone. That is why I used the terms iOS and Android, I didn't want to tie it to a device. I personally use the app on an iPad Pro, obviously the GUI is large enough to allow easy navigation. As a web browser is available across the board, maybe that is a better place to focus on as opposed to Apps Cheers I don't think @keithl was excluding anything. He was merely telling us what HIS preferences were. A web based interface would work on iPads as well as Android phones but I wouldn't be too enthused about using it on a phone. An iPad? Absolutely, especially on my Mini. I'm glad to hear they're working on one. |
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Post by 5channels on Sept 2, 2022 11:30:12 GMT -5
I hope this web browser solution comes soon. I first heard about it over two years ago from someone pretty high up the food chain at Emotiva. At that time I was told it was just around the corner.
As per the norm, don't get your hopes up.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 2, 2022 11:41:23 GMT -5
I hope this web browser solution comes soon. I first heard about it over two years ago from someone pretty high up the food chain at Emotiva. At that time I was told it was just around the corner. As per the norm, don't get your hopes up. Personally while I'd like to see this, there are many other things more important to me I'd prefer prioritized. While it is useful to discuss this now and then so Emotiva knows we're interested, expecting it any time soon will just bring disappointment. |
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Post by doc1963 on Sept 2, 2022 11:58:08 GMT -5
... as I mentioned previously Monoprice and the HTP-1 has done a good job of making it so it has the ability to do things like load Bass EQ filters directly into the PEQ of the device which takes the MiniDSP out of the equation for those of us who like to do things like that....something to consider...... I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said, but I just want to clarify your statement above... An HTP-1 owner who's well versed in HTML created the custom web GUI that allows the HTP-1 to load Bass EQ filters directly into the PEQ. Pink Soda deserves all of the credit for his custom GUI. Neither Monoprice, nor the HTP-1's true OEM (MDS and ATI), had anything to do with it. In a more recent development, another HTP-1 owner who is well versed in Linux has written a custom firmware (that runs from a flash card) that hopefully eliminates the "boot loop" issue. Monoprice has seemingly all but abandoned the HTP-1 and Hobie has myserterioulsy (or conveniently) disappeared from the users threads. Thankfully, for HTP-1 owners, there are users of the product that are savvy enough to make the best of it... |
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Post by ElectricKoolAid on Sept 2, 2022 12:02:05 GMT -5
... as I mentioned previously Monoprice and the HTP-1 has done a good job of making it so it has the ability to do things like load Bass EQ filters directly into the PEQ of the device which takes the MiniDSP out of the equation for those of us who like to do things like that....something to consider...... I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said, but I just want to clarify your statement above... An HTP-1 owner who's well versed in HTML created the custom web GUI that allows the HTP-1 to load Bass EQ filters directly into the PEQ. Pink Soda deserves all of the credit for his custom GUI. Neither Monoprice, nor the HTP-1's true OEM (MDS and ATI), had anything to do with it. In a more recent development, another HTP-1 owner who is well versed in Linux has written a custom firmware (that runs from a flash card) that hopefully eliminates the "boot loop" issue. Monoprice has seemingly all but abandoned the HTP-1 and Hobie has myserterioulsy (or conveniently) disappeared from the users threads. Thankfully, for HTP-1 owners, there are users of the product that are savvy enough to make the best of it... Fair enough, credit where credit is due! And yes I have been following the thread closely the past week with the announcement that they had created the custom firmware. Extremely impressive and will hopefully fix what Monoprice cannot/will not. I'll edit my original post to make it more clear about the custom UI. |
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Post by sebna on Sept 2, 2022 14:25:43 GMT -5
I personally think web GUI is a gimmick. Nice to have but 99% of the settings are set and forget after initial fine tuning.
I would much prefer to accelerate important functional stuff like dsu3, cross mixing, DLBC etc.
After all BEQ can be handled differently.
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Post by sebna on Sept 2, 2022 14:27:21 GMT -5
Please correct me if I am wrong, but currently having 16 channels without DTS:X Pro and DSU v3 is not really that useful as 99% of object audio content is coded for 11 channels and without those upmixers having more than 4 height channels does not really make sense? Is that correct?
I'm running a RMC-1L in a 9.1.6 config. If you're talking Disney/Marvel mixes you would be correct about that 99%. Otherwise, if I had to assign a number only like 20-30% of other studios/titles are locked to 7.1.4 or 7.1.2. There are quite a few great mixes out there that make full use of the format (especially when you consider available Netflix Atmos content). Side note: no offense to the team but I'm not excited about the bug fixes they're working...my processor works decent enough. What I am excited about is the prospect of cross-mixing + DTS:X Pro + DSU v3. That is great to hear and my wallet is crying already  |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Sept 2, 2022 15:52:42 GMT -5
I'm inclined to agree... about GUIs.... And I feel the same way about computers (Apple or Windows)... A GUI DOES NOT play a movie or music for you... it's simply a way to get to a point where you can watch a movie or listen to music. I don't sit there and watch the GUI - so what I really want is one that lets' me get done with it, so I can stop looking at it, as quickly and efficiently as possible. I don't want to watch the front panel display, or the GUI, or my wonderful remote control... what I want to watch is the movie. Ditto for computer operating systems. The operating system is just another part of the hardware. Its purpose is to enable you to run programs as efficiently as possible. So the absolute best possible operating system is the one that you see as little as possible and interact with as little as possible. But, then, I've also got this odd notion that the main purpose of a phone is to actually make phone calls.  So browsing the web, or taking pictures, or making coffee, are all just "nice to have extras"... (Have you noticed how so many phone reviews lately don't even mention phone stuff... like how reliable a phone is at actually making phone calls in areas with a weak signal?) I personally think web GUI is a gimmick. Nice to have but 99% of the settings are set and forget after initial fine tuning. I would much prefer to accelerate important functional stuff like dsu3, cross mixing, DLBC etc. After all BEQ can be handled differently. |
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What I am excited about is the prospect of cross-mixing + DTS:X Pro + DSU v3.
