ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
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Post by ttocs on Sept 10, 2022 18:24:36 GMT -5
I'd also like a crack at redesigning the interface of the iOS control app for the RMC-1. Call Lonnie. |
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Post by geebo on Sept 10, 2022 18:36:32 GMT -5
It should be painfully obvious to all who are waiting for the next firmware - Emo has not hired the right person to do their coding. If they were genuinely able to do effective recursive/iterative coding/testing/release we would see more frequent firmware releases addressing a single "major" issue with some minor house cleaning. When will we see the next firmware? It doesn't matter. By now each of us has had to figure out which workaround or headache works most of the time. I waited up till midnight the day these units first went on sale to get mine. The first firmware was "not ready for prime-time". I've suffered through having to daily power cycle. Cringe at random crazy loud static. Loss of audio. And volume weirdness (+/- 10dB) after previous firmware updates. Thankfully, most but not all of the WTF problems have been sorted. When it works it is really really good. I just hope that if/when an HDMI 2.1 board comes along that we don't start the @#$% show all over again. It may have been noted by some that my rather flippant musings on the non-availability of the v3.0 firmware for the RMC-1L. I'd like to state that I am not unsympathetic to Emotiva and the good people who work there. And like you I think I've been extraordinarily patient, finding work-arounds for all the weird little foibles that beset the use of this promising box. But still this situation is accelerating into farce. My sympathy for this situation stems from my own work. I invented an application which has become the most used on-set software tool in the motion picture industry. Called Artemis Director's Viewfinder I won an Emmy in 2018 for its decades long use on nearly every film & TV production worldwide. A large chunk of my life is taken up progressively updating the software, fixing bugs and improving the interface along guidelines gleaned from our loyal users. Sound familiar? I agree with you though, it seems that whoever is looking after the firmware development is perhaps under duress or doesn't understand that our patience can only be stretched so far. I'd also like a crack at redesigning the interface of the iOS control app for the RMC-1. It could be so much better. I mean, just having the volume control being easy to find in the dark would be helpful. Maybe I moan too much....? You find it difficult to find the volume control on the IOS app at night? |
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Sept 10, 2022 19:09:50 GMT -5
It may have been noted by some that my rather flippant musings on the non-availability of the v3.0 firmware for the RMC-1L. I'd like to state that I am not unsympathetic to Emotiva and the good people who work there. And like you I think I've been extraordinarily patient, finding work-arounds for all the weird little foibles that beset the use of this promising box. But still this situation is accelerating into farce. My sympathy for this situation stems from my own work. I invented an application which has become the most used on-set software tool in the motion picture industry. Called Artemis Director's Viewfinder I won an Emmy in 2018 for its decades long use on nearly every film & TV production worldwide. A large chunk of my life is taken up progressively updating the software, fixing bugs and improving the interface along guidelines gleaned from our loyal users. Sound familiar? I agree with you though, it seems that whoever is looking after the firmware development is perhaps under duress or doesn't understand that our patience can only be stretched so far. I'd also like a crack at redesigning the interface of the iOS control app for the RMC-1. It could be so much better. I mean, just having the volume control being easy to find in the dark would be helpful. Maybe I moan too much....? You find it difficult to find the volume control on the IOS app at night? I simply pick up my iPad Air, unlock the screen, tap on the app and I see the up/down arrows or slider on the right side and adjust accordingly. |
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Post by geebo on Sept 10, 2022 19:15:57 GMT -5
You find it difficult to find the volume control on the IOS app at night? I simply pick up my iPad Air, unlock the screen, tap on the app and I see the up/down arrows or slider on the right side and adjust accordingly. Easy peasy day OR night. |
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Post by marcl on Sept 11, 2022 8:27:47 GMT -5
If someone had told me that the release of the v3.0 firmware would be in the reign of King Charles III, I'd have assumed that someone was popping magic mushrooms while watching House of Dragons. Now I'm thinking "where's my Valerian steel"? Funny! Not really related but I'll share what popped into my mind ... Around 1980 I went to see a friend's band play at a place near Philly called The Main Point. The guitarist was Kevin Eubanks. If only I had the presence of mind at the time to say "Wow Kevin, you're such a great player ... I bet you a dollar that someday you'll be leading the band on the Tonight Show ... after Doc retires, of course" I coulda made a buck! |
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Post by brewmaster on Sept 12, 2022 9:19:30 GMT -5
Hey guys, I have been noticing a pretty unusual behavior with my XMC-2 and Reference Stereo mode. I have reproduced it faithfully on Analog balanced or unbalanced input - but it seems to come back with each power cycle. What happens is that if I switch to my Balanced analog input for Vinyl, that has been defaulted to "Reference Stereo" - the audio volume level is much lower than the other presets such as Stereo or Direct. If I switch from Reference to any other preset and back though - the Reference Stereo Level is much louder and dynamic than the other presets. Once I flip between the presets and return to Reference, it stays consistently loud and dynamic. It's just that most times when I power on - I have to change from Reference to another preset and back for Reference to work. This happens on Balanced or unbalanced input, both of which I use Reference stereo for. I do have my G3P set for power save, not HDMI passthrough and I am on 2.3 and waiting for 3 like everyone else! I tried to search for this - but I have not found any other thread where others have this problem. Any suggestions?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 12, 2022 10:03:15 GMT -5
Hey guys, I have been noticing a pretty unusual behavior with my XMC-2 and Reference Stereo mode. I have reproduced it faithfully on Analog balanced or unbalanced input - but it seems to come back with each power cycle. What happens is that if I switch to my Balanced analog input for Vinyl, that has been defaulted to "Reference Stereo" - the audio volume level is much lower than the other presets such as Stereo or Direct. If I switch from Reference to any other preset and back though - the Reference Stereo Level is much louder and dynamic than the other presets. Once I flip between the presets and return to Reference, it stays consistently loud and dynamic. It's just that most times when I power on - I have to change from Reference to another preset and back for Reference to work. This happens on Balanced or unbalanced input, both of which I use Reference stereo for. I do have my G3P set for power save, not HDMI passthrough and I am on 2.3 and waiting for 3 like everyone else! I tried to search for this - but I have not found any other thread where others have this problem. Any suggestions? Just to clarify, to duplicate: -Startup G3P from LPS (any input) -Switch to Analog 1 or Balanced 1 (which have been previously set to 2 channel = Reference Stereo) -G3P is in Reference Stereo mode and volume is low -Switch to Direct or other mode and the back to Reference and volume is back to normal (louder) -Repeat the above having the preset in step 2 set to Direct or Stereo - After startup G3P volume is normal Is this correct? |
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Post by brewmaster on Sept 12, 2022 10:21:21 GMT -5
Hey guys, I have been noticing a pretty unusual behavior with my XMC-2 and Reference Stereo mode. I have reproduced it faithfully on Analog balanced or unbalanced input - but it seems to come back with each power cycle. What happens is that if I switch to my Balanced analog input for Vinyl, that has been defaulted to "Reference Stereo" - the audio volume level is much lower than the other presets such as Stereo or Direct. If I switch from Reference to any other preset and back though - the Reference Stereo Level is much louder and dynamic than the other presets. Once I flip between the presets and return to Reference, it stays consistently loud and dynamic. It's just that most times when I power on - I have to change from Reference to another preset and back for Reference to work. This happens on Balanced or unbalanced input, both of which I use Reference stereo for. I do have my G3P set for power save, not HDMI passthrough and I am on 2.3 and waiting for 3 like everyone else! I tried to search for this - but I have not found any other thread where others have this problem. Any suggestions? Just to clarify, to duplicate: -Startup G3P from LPS (any input) -Switch to Analog 1 or Balanced 1 (which have been previously set to 2 channel = Reference Stereo) -G3P is in Reference Stereo mode and volume is low -Switch to Direct or other mode and the back to Reference and volume is back to normal (louder) -Repeat the above having the preset in step 2 set to Direct or Stereo - After startup G3P volume is normal Is this correct? Yes, I think that is correct. Couple points of clarity: - Other inputs that default to Auto such as Blu Ray or Apple TV work as expected with surround modes, 2CH, etc. - This issue occurs just as frequently if I power down while using an analog input and set to Reference. The next time I power on, it resumes the previous input and and the display and mobile app report "Reference Stereo". However the volume level is low. Takes about 8 or 10 more db on the volume control to get close to the typical output level. If I change mode away from "reference Stereo" and back, the volume level jumps equal to about 8 or 10 db on the volume control. It then stays at that level throughout the session. - I have not tried to change the default mode for my 2 channel analog inputs from Reference to "Stereo" or other - as it defeats the purpose. I have found that if I change modes it resolves the problem until the next boot cycle anyway. |
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NicS
Sensei
Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
Posts: 238
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Post by NicS on Sept 12, 2022 15:08:49 GMT -5
It may have been noted by some that my rather flippant musings on the non-availability of the v3.0 firmware for the RMC-1L. I'd like to state that I am not unsympathetic to Emotiva and the good people who work there. And like you I think I've been extraordinarily patient, finding work-arounds for all the weird little foibles that beset the use of this promising box. But still this situation is accelerating into farce. My sympathy for this situation stems from my own work. I invented an application which has become the most used on-set software tool in the motion picture industry. Called Artemis Director's Viewfinder I won an Emmy in 2018 for its decades long use on nearly every film & TV production worldwide. A large chunk of my life is taken up progressively updating the software, fixing bugs and improving the interface along guidelines gleaned from our loyal users. Sound familiar? I agree with you though, it seems that whoever is looking after the firmware development is perhaps under duress or doesn't understand that our patience can only be stretched so far. I'd also like a crack at redesigning the interface of the iOS control app for the RMC-1. It could be so much better. I mean, just having the volume control being easy to find in the dark would be helpful. Maybe I moan too much....? You find it difficult to find the volume control on the IOS app at night? Yes. Since the volume control is probably the most used of the function, why should it be as small as the button to control the level of the volume of the height speakers. The volume control should be of a size and in a position to be used from muscle memory. This is typical of good interface design. |
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NicS
Sensei
Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
Posts: 238
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Post by NicS on Sept 12, 2022 15:10:11 GMT -5
I'd also like a crack at redesigning the interface of the iOS control app for the RMC-1. Call Lonnie. Do I use the Beetlejuice method? |
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Post by geebo on Sept 12, 2022 15:20:23 GMT -5
You find it difficult to find the volume control on the IOS app at night? Yes. Since the volume control is probably the most used of the function, why should it be as small as the button to control the level of the volume of the height speakers. The volume control should be of a size and in a position to be used from muscle memory. This is typical of good interface design. And it's harder to find in the dark? |
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Post by geebo on Sept 12, 2022 15:20:32 GMT -5
You find it difficult to find the volume control on the IOS app at night? Yes. Since the volume control is probably the most used of the function, why should it be as small as the button to control the level of the volume of the height speakers. The volume control should be of a size and in a position to be used from muscle memory. This is typical of good interface design. And it's harder to find in the dark? On my Mini it makes no diffference. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 12, 2022 16:01:54 GMT -5
You find it difficult to find the volume control on the IOS app at night? Yes. Since the volume control is probably the most used of the function, why should it be as small as the button to control the level of the volume of the height speakers. The volume control should be of a size and in a position to be used from muscle memory. This is typical of good interface design. I think many of us might have various ideas on how to best make an interface for the G3P, or one’s entire system (ala Harmony Hub Activity screen), but what we really need is someone who can write the back end code to communicate with the G3P. This would allow us to move forward with more advanced projects, and to add compatibility with a new generation of remote controls and apps. I actually created a thread on this and did some prototypes 10 years ago in anticipation of the XMC-1 being released ‘soon’. This post has my first main screen design, others follow in the thread (including a setup prototype). Maybe a little busy now, but this was three years before the XMC-1 was actually released. Edit: Looks like Thursday will be exactly 10 years! |
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Post by ElectricKoolAid on Sept 12, 2022 16:39:29 GMT -5
I don't specifically disagree with you either. However I would also make a distinction between a pretty GUI ( GRAPHICAL user interface) and just a browser-based interface. For example, if I was configuring a whole bunch of inputs, with a name and options for each, I would much rather enter all the necessary information into something that looked like a spreadsheet. (Which is what the very-pre-beta Windows configuration app looks like.) But, in that case, a plain old text-based spreadsheet would serve me just fine, and I don't care much about pretty pictures and 3D buttons. (And a poorly designed GUI can be more confusing and complicated than informative.) Something like: Input Audio Video Name ModeHDMI1 HDMI1 HDMI1 AppleTV Surround
HDMI2 Analog HDMI2 BlueBox Stereo
Now, if you're talking about actually working with a parametric EQ (and not just entering numbers you already have), then I really prefer something like this... View Attachment(That's the PEQ screen for Izotope Ozone Elements 9 - which is a really nice full-on mastering and editing program.) But that's a really complicated piece of software - which I'm sure took several programmers a long time to write. There are also inevitable tradeoffs... For example, that GUI is really nice for moving sliders, and seeing what happens on the graph... But, if you already have the numbers you want to use, it's easier to just punch in, for example, 220 Hz, Q=2, Vol=+3 dB ... And, if you're making your entries on a separate device... - either it updates right away... in which case the response gets very slow - or it updates when you're done... so you don't get to hear what your changes sound like - or it updates when you tell it to explicitly... in which case you have to keep hitting "update" - and you have to make sure all of your changes really get entered and don't get lost - and, of course, you need to HAVE that separate device (do you want Android, or IOS, or Windows... and will they all look and work the same?) Your final line says it all really... It's a big, complicated, and expensive project to design a good GUI... and we have higher priorities... However, as I've said, we are working on a Web-based interface... so it is coming... I appreciate your perspective on this. It's not necessarily that I disagree with what you are saying, just trying to provide the other point of view. I think a well designed GUI allows for complex operations that are not possible or are clunky on a text based interface for the average user. I also think a responsive, well designed GUI would be easier for me personally (and maybe others) than the current OSD. There are still thinks that the OSD might be quicker to do than on a web based GUI, but for me I always have a my smart phone next to me and I have a server rack with a monitor right next to my setup so I can always step right over and pull up the web in seconds. I often find that unless I do a reboot of my processor before using the OSD, it gets laggy and then when I click to go up or down I'll end up accidentally going to far or opening the wrong submenu, backing out maybe getting it right the next time. Then sometimes when I get to the end of the submenu, I realize I'm not where I thought I was going to be, then I have to go back out and start searching through all of them until I find what I am looking for. A nice, logical GUI allows for much quicker access to menus and features at a glance and can easily and quickly be changed. The key would be the design. It needs to be intuitive and responsive and well laid out using some sort of modern framework that is cross compatible with all devices/browsers. I'm not a javascript programmer but I think something like the React JS framework would be a logical choice, or at least a good candidate. Anyways, that's all I'll say on this subject for now. I would much rather see development resources go to other things before a web UI, such as my personal #1 which is DLBC...I'll leave it at that! Thanks, yeah to be clear I was using GUI in a more general sense, basically just using it to refer to a user interface that is not text based but has buttons and stuff that makes it graphical. Basically something like this:  |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 12, 2022 19:04:05 GMT -5
Just to clarify, to duplicate: -Startup G3P from LPS (any input) -Switch to Analog 1 or Balanced 1 (which have been previously set to 2 channel = Reference Stereo) -G3P is in Reference Stereo mode and volume is low -Switch to Direct or other mode and the back to Reference and volume is back to normal (louder) -Repeat the above having the preset in step 2 set to Direct or Stereo - After startup G3P volume is normal Is this correct? Yes, I think that is correct. Couple points of clarity: - Other inputs that default to Auto such as Blu Ray or Apple TV work as expected with surround modes, 2CH, etc. - This issue occurs just as frequently if I power down while using an analog input and set to Reference. The next time I power on, it resumes the previous input and and the display and mobile app report "Reference Stereo". However the volume level is low. Takes about 8 or 10 more db on the volume control to get close to the typical output level. If I change mode away from "reference Stereo" and back, the volume level jumps equal to about 8 or 10 db on the volume control. It then stays at that level throughout the session. - I have not tried to change the default mode for my 2 channel analog inputs from Reference to "Stereo" or other - as it defeats the purpose. I have found that if I change modes it resolves the problem until the next boot cycle anyway. I believe I’ve now duplicated this issue. My turntable (on Analog 1) was set 2.0 to Stereo, I started up and played an album while switching between Stereo, Direct & Reference Stereo, the volume was pretty close on all of them. I then went into setup, changed Analog 1 2.0 to Reference Stereo, and shut the system down. I restarted directly into the turntable (which I confirmed was in Reference Stereo) and played the album, the volume was lower. When I switched to Direct or Stereo it got louder again, when I went back to Reference Stereo the volume had return to normal. I’d say the difference is about 6-8 dB. I will report this. |
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Post by panasonicst60 on Sept 13, 2022 2:16:55 GMT -5
Yes, I think that is correct. Couple points of clarity: - Other inputs that default to Auto such as Blu Ray or Apple TV work as expected with surround modes, 2CH, etc. - This issue occurs just as frequently if I power down while using an analog input and set to Reference. The next time I power on, it resumes the previous input and and the display and mobile app report "Reference Stereo". However the volume level is low. Takes about 8 or 10 more db on the volume control to get close to the typical output level. If I change mode away from "reference Stereo" and back, the volume level jumps equal to about 8 or 10 db on the volume control. It then stays at that level throughout the session. - I have not tried to change the default mode for my 2 channel analog inputs from Reference to "Stereo" or other - as it defeats the purpose. I have found that if I change modes it resolves the problem until the next boot cycle anyway. I believe I’ve now duplicated this issue. My turntable (on Analog 1) was set 2.0 to Stereo, I started up and played an album while switching between Stereo, Direct & Reference Stereo, the volume was pretty close on all of them. I then went into setup, changed Analog 1 2.0 to Reference Stereo, and shut the system down. I restarted directly into the turntable (which I confirmed was in Reference Stereo) and played the album, the volume was lower. When I switched to Direct or Stereo it got louder again, when I went back to Reference Stereo the volume had return to normal. I’d say the difference is about 6-8 dB. I will report this. I've had the same experience yesterday. Seems like it never likes us to change any settings. If everything works as it should and I don't change any settings, it is pretty reliable. Changing settings bugs out the processor. |
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Post by fazedout on Sept 13, 2022 2:20:58 GMT -5
You find it difficult to find the volume control on the IOS app at night? Yes. Since the volume control is probably the most used of the function, why should it be as small as the button to control the level of the volume of the height speakers. The volume control should be of a size and in a position to be used from muscle memory. This is typical of good interface design. for all it’s many failings, this part of an iOS App betters Apple’s ‘native music’ App, with + - for granular volume adjustments.  |
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Post by markc on Sept 13, 2022 2:42:06 GMT -5
Seems like it never likes us to change any settings. If everything works as it should and I don't change any settings, it is pretty reliable. Changing settings bugs out the processor. Are you saying that if we use the product as intended, it doesn't actually work as intended? |
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Post by brewmaster on Sept 13, 2022 7:19:54 GMT -5
Yes, I think that is correct. Couple points of clarity: - Other inputs that default to Auto such as Blu Ray or Apple TV work as expected with surround modes, 2CH, etc. - This issue occurs just as frequently if I power down while using an analog input and set to Reference. The next time I power on, it resumes the previous input and and the display and mobile app report "Reference Stereo". However the volume level is low. Takes about 8 or 10 more db on the volume control to get close to the typical output level. If I change mode away from "reference Stereo" and back, the volume level jumps equal to about 8 or 10 db on the volume control. It then stays at that level throughout the session. - I have not tried to change the default mode for my 2 channel analog inputs from Reference to "Stereo" or other - as it defeats the purpose. I have found that if I change modes it resolves the problem until the next boot cycle anyway. I believe I’ve now duplicated this issue. My turntable (on Analog 1) was set 2.0 to Stereo, I started up and played an album while switching between Stereo, Direct & Reference Stereo, the volume was pretty close on all of them. I then went into setup, changed Analog 1 2.0 to Reference Stereo, and shut the system down. I restarted directly into the turntable (which I confirmed was in Reference Stereo) and played the album, the volume was lower. When I switched to Direct or Stereo it got louder again, when I went back to Reference Stereo the volume had return to normal. I’d say the difference is about 6-8 dB. I will report this. Thank you! I admit, I was surprised that this is a "new" bug. I have been experiencing it pretty much since I started listening to vinyl again earlier this year. At first, I was concerned that the output level of vinyl was all over the place - then I realized it was the XMC that was inconsistent. Took me a while to track down exactly when it happened. With my Dirac settings, "stereo" is a fair amount lower than Reference, and when this bug presents - its a pretty dramatic change in volume on the reference stereo mode. I assume the impact on listener has more to do with the gain of your amps. I am using (2) XPS-2 bridged mono for 2Ch with sensitive speakers, so it is a pretty big difference in my setup. |
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Post by panasonicst60 on Sept 13, 2022 9:39:33 GMT -5
Seems like it never likes us to change any settings. If everything works as it should and I don't change any settings, it is pretty reliable. Changing settings bugs out the processor. Are you saying that if we use the product as intended, it doesn't actually work as intended? Okay maybe I exaggerated  . More like slightly buggy to buggier. |
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. More like slightly buggy to buggier. 