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Post by Stephen Park on Oct 11, 2022 6:22:47 GMT -5
My guess is that they will offer a decent trade in for current models still under warranty to upgrade to the new ones. Hmmm sound familiar? Oh yeah that's how I got my current XMC-2. No doubt Stephen. Though I'm really disillusioned with them. I'm also looking elsewhere. You wrote wrong name...  However I also very much felt same as you and thezone. But I will not trade my RMC to new G4P. If I can afford, I will trade off this RMC and buy StormAudio or JBL Synthesis. Of course it is completely different price range though. Once in a lifetime...!  You are saying "new line of processors will be released is quite hollow sounding now", and I absolutly agree with you. |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 11, 2022 8:05:09 GMT -5
In 5 years, the world of immersive audio and UHD video has moved on. Move with it. EMO is making the best it can out of the presented circumstances; for both their business and their customers. Whiners gonna whine. I'll take a good movie or piece of music, along with some cheese, wine, and crackers.
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Post by cwt on Oct 11, 2022 8:09:07 GMT -5
Seeking advice: I currently own a BasX MC1 processor. With the recent price cut I've been taking a closer look at the XMC-2. My AudioControl 5Ch amp has balanced XLR inputs and I'd like to take advantage of the better sounding connection. If your MC1 is stable I would let sleeping dogs lie Mr Bell at least until the fabled 3.0 firmware is released and appraised .. Over short runs as long as you have well shielded unbalanced rca's ;balanced xlrs will not give better sound quality . With long runs common mode noise reduction will cancel out extraneous noise so can be handy . Say all this albeit considering personally I like xlr for reasons of locking in place and the tendency of tight rca sockets to sometimes be a pain [ so if those matter to you ? i understand ] Will add if your audiocontrol amp is fully balanced input to output xlr connections can give you a theoretical few extra db's of s/n ratio as the lcr channels are fully balanced input to output as well in the xmc2 [ using the dual mono mode in its akm dacs]. this requires a fully balanced system though and I think the audiocontrol is single ended converted like many multich amps.. |
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Post by foggy1956 on Oct 11, 2022 9:00:27 GMT -5
In 5 years, the world of immersive audio and UHD video has moved on. Move with it. EMO is making the best it can out of the presented circumstances; for both their business and their customers. Whiners gonna whine. I'll take a good movie or piece of music, along with some cheese, wine, and crackers. Perhaps then, since the advent of the xmc-1 they should not have promoted a modular design. |
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ttocs
Global Moderator 
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,093
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Post by ttocs on Oct 11, 2022 9:36:33 GMT -5
In 5 years, the world of immersive audio and UHD video has moved on. Move with it. EMO is making the best it can out of the presented circumstances; for both their business and their customers. Whiners gonna whine. I'll take a good movie or piece of music, along with some cheese, wine, and crackers. Perhaps then, since the advent of the xmc-1 they should not have promoted a modular design. Even with the XMC-1 I was wondering how long the black box would be good for. For any kind of longevity I would think that the power supply at least would need to be multiple times whatever the current need is at the design phase. And from what is being talked about right now, the G4P is double the power supply of what the G3P is, so double that again to be safe. Only then can a black box with a power supply and a good front panel display with virtual buttons be used as a mule for future generations. |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 11, 2022 11:19:24 GMT -5
In 5 years, the world of immersive audio and UHD video has moved on. Move with it. EMO is making the best it can out of the presented circumstances; for both their business and their customers. Whiners gonna whine. I'll take a good movie or piece of music, along with some cheese, wine, and crackers. Perhaps then, since the advent of the xmc-1 they should not have promoted a modular design. I agree foggy1956 ! No whiner here but if your going to make a promise you had damn better keep it or loose any good reputation you may have garnered in the past! Whining because somebody paid a lot extra for a promise? I think not! |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 11, 2022 11:22:32 GMT -5
No doubt Stephen. Though I'm really disillusioned with them. I'm also looking elsewhere. You wrote wrong name... However I also very much felt same as you and thezone. But I will not trade my RMC to new G4P. If I can afford, I will trade off this RMC and buy StormAudio or JBL Synthesis. Of course it is completely different price range though. Once in a lifetime...! You are saying "new line of processors will be released is quite hollow sounding now", and I absolutly agree with you. Yeh, I thought I was spending my once in a lifetime money for an upgradable/ expandable unit. SURPRISE! |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 11, 2022 11:45:36 GMT -5
In 5 years, the world of immersive audio and UHD video has moved on. Move with it. EMO is making the best it can out of the presented circumstances; for both their business and their customers. Whiners gonna whine. I'll take a good movie or piece of music, along with some cheese, wine, and crackers. Perhaps then, since the advent of the xmc-1 they should not have promoted a modular design. I hear you, but it sounds like hindsight. It's hard to predict the future. EMO ended up with problems beyond their control. Dirac implementation was one of those problems beyond their control. Then there is the issue of chip changes and shortages. ttocs made a good point about making the right 'mule'. I think the closest thing to a right 'mule' is something like an AT motherboard with card slots. Needs to be overbuilt, and generic enough to accept unforeseen peripheral changes. Or, break out the processor into enough black boxes to cover possible future permutations. People do this anyway when outboard video and audio processing is added. The number and cost of computers I have bought over the years has exceeded what I spent on audio. It's obscene. I remember spending $500 on a 14" VGA monitor. $2500 on a 386, 25Mhz computer. $100/megabyte for RAM. $500 for a 85 megabyte HD. All in yesterday's dollars - yesterday meaning a few decades ago. My turntable setup cost more than my RMC-1L. Now there is a fairly stable technology - turntables, phono preamps, cartridges, ... all so I can play my legacy vinyl records. The cost of an RMC-1L is hardly 'once in a lifetime money' for a product type that changes as fast as early computers; especially when looking at a signature component list that is multiples of the cost of the RMC-1L. My Acoustat TNP preamp from 40 years ago cost almost as much as my RMC-1L in today's dollars. I think the new discounts makes the RMC-1L less expensive. Methinks a whole lot of 'protesting too much' is occurring... too much whine. A more realistic perspective is in order. |
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Post by brutiarti on Oct 11, 2022 11:45:40 GMT -5
Perhaps they should start leasing the units instead
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Post by multicore on Oct 11, 2022 11:53:34 GMT -5
I do not recall Emotiva ever saying that enhancements/new features would be zero cost. I do understand that there is justifiable concern that you have to upgrade multiple features/boards to get what is desired, but as previously stated this might be required to implement most of the new features (power supply, processor, DSP, etc.). I would like to see both an upgrade path as well as a trade-in path. Yes, it apparently has been very difficult for Emotiva to offer individual feature upgrades, but I am very thankful for the opportunity to trade-up at a significant discount.
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Post by audiovideojunky on Oct 11, 2022 13:40:22 GMT -5
Perhaps then, since the advent of the xmc-1 they should not have promoted a modular design. I hear you, but it sounds like hindsight. It's hard to predict the future. EMO ended up with problems beyond their control. Dirac implementation was one of those problems beyond their control. Then there is the issue of chip changes and shortages. ttocs made a good point about making the right 'mule'. I think the closest thing to a right 'mule' is something like an AT motherboard with card slots. Needs to be overbuilt, and generic enough to accept unforeseen peripheral changes. Or, break out the processor into enough black boxes to cover possible future permutations. People do this anyway when outboard video and audio processing is added. The number and cost of computers I have bought over the years has exceeded what I spent on audio. It's obscene. I remember spending $500 on a 14" VGA monitor. $2500 on a 386, 25Mhz computer. $100/megabyte for RAM. $500 for a 85 megabyte HD. All in yesterday's dollars - yesterday meaning a few decades ago. My turntable setup cost more than my RMC-1L. Now there is a fairly stable technology - turntables, phono preamps, cartridges, ... all so I can play my legacy vinyl records. The cost of an RMC-1L is hardly 'once in a lifetime money' for a product type that changes as fast as early computers; especially when looking at a signature component list that is multiples of the cost of the RMC-1L. My Acoustat TNP preamp from 40 years ago cost almost as much as my RMC-1L in today's dollars. I think the new discounts makes the RMC-1L less expensive. Methinks a whole lot of 'protesting too much' is occurring... too much whine. A more realistic perspective is in order. I agree on too much whine. Honestly, what could Emo do that would make folks happy that they aren't already doing? They are still supporting existing processors, and offering some exciting future options; likely at very competitive prices. Yeah, okay, the firmware 3.0 has been very delayed. I agree that's frustrating, but it's not a showstopper for me. My RMC-1 bugs are few and far between at this point. I haven't heard specifically, but wonder if the new processor line will also use the same firmware? While this may have delayed the release of 3.0 a bit, it may also benefit the older processors in the long run. It will keep the shared firmware front and center, which will likely result in better support for all Emo's processors. And features that wouldn't have otherwise been introduced may ripple backward. Have some optimism folks!The future is impossible to predict, and rapidly changing tech (like must be accommodated with a surround processor) has got to be very difficult for a small company to plan ahead for and keep pace with. I have attempted to buy computer cases and power supplies that were "future proof", but even that hasn't panned out (the industry always seems to change fundamentals like power connectors, etc.). Anyway, so what if Emo is upgrading more components than you might have expected? They are still standing behind their promise to upgrade. And folks haven't even seen the cost yet, and are still complaining. I don't get it. Personally, I'm relieved that Emo is working on another round of processors. That's a huge project for a small company, and shows their commitment to those products (both future and existing). They could have thrown in the towel on their processor line, in which case where would current owners be? |
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Post by 5channels on Oct 11, 2022 14:38:29 GMT -5
Whatever happened to the credo, "under promise, over deliver"? That is truly a winning business model, with satisfied clients across the board...not the opposite, as seems to be the case here. Dunna promise emountains and deliver emolehills.
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Post by bitzerjdb on Oct 11, 2022 16:06:11 GMT -5
Sorry for Whining... I guess wanting Basic Base Management that works, or an HDMI switch that works is asking too much, in addition I cannot play a digital music stream from my Music Streamers via a digital input without cutting off the first few notes of a song (playing through Analog works fine)...oh wait, I forgot about the pops and clicks and the occasional blast of static. Frankly my RMC-1L is flawed product that I would not sell on the open market in it's current condition.
Some people experience more issues than others. To label those who have the issues as whining is incredibility disrespectful. I wish mine was bug free! Maybe V3 of the firmware will get us there...but we will only know once it is released.
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Post by audiovideojunky on Oct 11, 2022 17:28:22 GMT -5
Sorry for Whining... I guess wanting Basic Base Management that works, or an HDMI switch that works is asking too much, in addition I cannot play a digital music stream from my Music Streamers via a digital input without cutting off the first few notes of a song (playing through Analog works fine)...oh wait, I forgot about the pops and clicks and the occasional blast of static. Frankly my RMC-1L is flawed product that I would not sell on the open market in it's current condition. Some people experience more issues than others. To label those who have the issues as whining is incredibility disrespectful. I wish mine was bug free! Maybe V3 of the firmware will get us there...but we will only know once it is released. Just for the record, the whining I was talking about (and believe others recently were as well) was in regard to folks complaining about Emotiva's announcements about the new line of processors, future upgrades, etc. I just don't see any evidence that these announcements detract from the support of current processors. On the contrary, I'm hopefully that they share firmware and that ends up benefiting the older generations. But perhaps I'm an eternal optimist? Anyway, I'm fortunate to not have any significant issues with my RMC-1 at this point. But I'm definitely sympathetic to those of you with issues and do NOT mean to imply that you shouldn't vent about that. My apologies if I came across as disrespectful. |
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Post by bitzerjdb on Oct 11, 2022 18:39:19 GMT -5
Hey, no worries :-) It's all good. All we need is a kick ass firmware release and all will be right in the world! Sorry for Whining... I guess wanting Basic Base Management that works, or an HDMI switch that works is asking too much, in addition I cannot play a digital music stream from my Music Streamers via a digital input without cutting off the first few notes of a song (playing through Analog works fine)...oh wait, I forgot about the pops and clicks and the occasional blast of static. Frankly my RMC-1L is flawed product that I would not sell on the open market in it's current condition. Some people experience more issues than others. To label those who have the issues as whining is incredibility disrespectful. I wish mine was bug free! Maybe V3 of the firmware will get us there...but we will only know once it is released. Just for the record, the whining I was talking about (and believe others recently were as well) was in regard to folks complaining about Emotiva's announcements about the new line of processors, future upgrades, etc. I just don't see any evidence that these announcements detract from the support of current processors. On the contrary, I'm hopefully that they share firmware and that ends up benefiting the older generations. But perhaps I'm an eternal optimist? Anyway, I'm fortunate to not have any significant issues with my RMC-1 at this point. But I'm definitely sympathetic to those of you with issues and do NOT mean to imply that you shouldn't vent about that. My apologies if I came across as disrespectful. |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 11, 2022 18:52:23 GMT -5
Sorry for Whining... I guess wanting Basic Base Management that works, or an HDMI switch that works is asking too much, in addition I cannot play a digital music stream from my Music Streamers via a digital input without cutting off the first few notes of a song (playing through Analog works fine)...oh wait, I forgot about the pops and clicks and the occasional blast of static. Frankly my RMC-1L is flawed product that I would not sell on the open market in it's current condition. Some people experience more issues than others. To label those who have the issues as whining is incredibility disrespectful. I wish mine was bug free! Maybe V3 of the firmware will get us there...but we will only know once it is released. Just for the record, the whining I was talking about (and believe others recently were as well) was in regard to folks complaining about Emotiva's announcements about the new line of processors, future upgrades, etc. I just don't see any evidence that these announcements detract from the support of current processors. On the contrary, I'm hopefully that they share firmware and that ends up benefiting the older generations. But perhaps I'm an eternal optimist? Anyway, I'm fortunate to not have any significant issues with my RMC-1 at this point. But I'm definitely sympathetic to those of you with issues and do NOT mean to imply that you shouldn't vent about that. My apologies if I came across as disrespectful. ^^^^^ ditto! I think the fact that EMO is working on G4P, and offering incentives for G3P owners, is encouraging for the future of every owner. I did start out my post stream on this subject stating that I have been a vocal critic. I have a few small problems with my RMC-1L. Waiting for FW 3.0 to help. |
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Post by Natural1 on Oct 11, 2022 20:13:14 GMT -5
A few thoughts coming from the non-4K XMC-1 to the RMC-1L.
I run a simple 5.2 channel set up with two older 4K/60 displays: Vizio M80-C3 & Epson 5040ub projector. 4K sources are streaming sticks.
1. Dirac results are at least as good as before.
2. Overall sound quality with music in Stereo mode is maybe slightly better, but honestly the XMC-1 sounds excellent and you probably couldn't pick them apart.
3. Bitstreamed multi-channel surround is at least as good as before.
4. The newer "Dolby Surround" upmixer is definitely better than PLIIx. Vocal clarity seems improved and there's definitely more surround presence.
5. I hardly used it on the XMC-1, but the Loudness setting is much improved. Too much bass on the XMC-1. I think I might use it occasionally now.
6. HDMI switching between 1080 sources is about the same. Maybe 4 seconds average.
7. HDMI switching between 4K sources or from 1080 to 4K is about 8 seconds average.
8. The "pops" you hear when a source switches audio formats are there, but generally not too bad and low in volume. This is basically the same as the XMC-1.
A note for folks with older 4K displays: The Vizio M80 in particular has a hard time telling 4K sources that it run at 4K/60|8-bit 4:2:0, and this usually results in a 4K/30 feed being sent. To fix this I installed EDID emulators at the display end set to 4K/60 8-bit 4:2:0 and this stabilized things dramatically.
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Post by aswiss on Oct 11, 2022 20:15:03 GMT -5
Most of us are waiting 10-16+ months now to get a new FW.
2.5 was not adding anything IMHO - so 2.3 was the last real FW (or even 2.0)
I did not like their timing of that at all - I wished they bring out the FW 3.x first - and same time or a week later - the note about the upcoming (Summer 2023) G4P including the Upgrade for G3P. And I would also prefer to get a newsletter in digital form (reading is more clear than a podcast) - but I can also understand the Sales Dept. to be happy with the announcement.
What makes me unsure is the upgrade for my RMC-1 (G3P).
- can I still use my XLR IN module?
- will the RMC-1 ever get XLR-OUT modules to reach the promised 28 channels?
- do we really have to exchange almost everything to get just HDMI 2.1?
- etc -
As long as there is no official written information from Emotiva, that is all speculation.
Its the same wait and see, wait longer, see nothing game, we have since I own my RMC-1 - which is now 41 months.
Sorry for Whining... I guess wanting Basic Base Management that works, or an HDMI switch that works is asking too much, in addition I cannot play a digital music stream from my Music Streamers via a digital input without cutting off the first few notes of a song (playing through Analog works fine)...oh wait, I forgot about the pops and clicks and the occasional blast of static. Frankly my RMC-1L is flawed product that I would not sell on the open market in it's current condition. Some people experience more issues than others. To label those who have the issues as whining is incredibility disrespectful. I wish mine was bug free! Maybe V3 of the firmware will get us there...but we will only know once it is released. Just for the record, the whining I was talking about (and believe others recently were as well) was in regard to folks complaining about Emotiva's announcements about the new line of processors, future upgrades, etc. I just don't see any evidence that these announcements detract from the support of current processors. On the contrary, I'm hopefully that they share firmware and that ends up benefiting the older generations. But perhaps I'm an eternal optimist? Anyway, I'm fortunate to not have any significant issues with my RMC-1 at this point. But I'm definitely sympathetic to those of you with issues and do NOT mean to imply that you shouldn't vent about that. My apologies if I came across as disrespectful. |
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Post by jasonf on Oct 11, 2022 21:19:13 GMT -5
In 5 years, the world of immersive audio and UHD video has moved on. Move with it. EMO is making the best it can out of the presented circumstances; for both their business and their customers. Whiners gonna whine. I'll take a good movie or piece of music, along with some cheese, wine, and crackers. Perhaps then, since the advent of the xmc-1 they should not have promoted a modular design. What's the concern here? The modular design is the reason that the the Gen3 processors *will* be upgradable to Gen4. |
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Post by foggy1956 on Oct 12, 2022 7:14:07 GMT -5
Perhaps then, since the advent of the xmc-1 they should not have promoted a modular design. What's the concern here? The modular design is the reason that the the Gen3 processors *will* be upgradable to Gen4. The difference is whether you put a new tranny in your car or trade it in for a new one. |
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