ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Oct 15, 2022 9:10:10 GMT -5
I would like an explanation for why my cheap Panasonic 4K player can handle a GUI overlay without any problems, with any source it plays, but it becomes a problem in the G3P. What problem are you having with the OSD? |
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calle
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Post by calle on Oct 15, 2022 9:17:40 GMT -5
The "upgrade" will be handled with a replacement program to speed things up. Same as xmc-1 -> xmc-2. They speak about this in the podcast. You buy the "upgrade", send in the device and when emotiva receives the device they will ship you a upgraded device. They say they can explicit upgrade your device but it will take weeks per device. I see this is mentioned in the upgrade FAQ 👍- emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1099839/thread |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Oct 15, 2022 9:28:46 GMT -5
The "upgrade" will be handled with a replacement program to speed things up. Same as xmc-1 -> xmc-2. They speak about this in the podcast. You buy the "upgrade", send in the device and when emotiva receives the device they will ship you a upgraded device. They say they can explicit upgrade your device but it will take weeks per device.Emotiva could implement a program whereby we take a trip to Emotiva and work on our processor ourselves! This would be akin to someone who ordered a Corvette and was able to build their engine. Chevrolet charged an extra $5,800 for this experience. So maybe Emotiva can charge an extra $5,800 and we could build our processor then take it home that day. |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 15, 2022 9:32:55 GMT -5
I would like an explanation for why my cheap Panasonic 4K player can handle a GUI overlay without any problems, with any source it plays, but it becomes a problem in the G3P. What problem are you having with the OSD? None that I know. I should have been more clear. I was responding to "It is very hard to overlay a hi res gui on 4k bandwidth ; good reason to ditch it". cwt's comment seems to be a perennial comment about G3P function. It's a comment, from various people, that has never made sense to me. I see no direct connection between the OSD and G3P function issues. OSD is a common and functional feature of most remote and local operated video electronics at all price levels. I may not be remembering well, but I recall someone from EMO making a comment about OSD implementation being difficult. |
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NicS
Sensei
Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
Posts: 236
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Post by NicS on Oct 15, 2022 9:50:06 GMT -5
I’m trying to point out that chasing specifications does not reflect the reality of what we mostly watch. I assume you watch mostly movies and TV drama. Which is why you buy expensive equipment to enhance your enjoyment. I was merely pointing out the reality of real-world image resolution. Outside of graphics, actual image resolution is for most content of this type is much lower than you think. Anyway, not here to argue the realities of cinematography. I get enough of that during daylong hours. Again, Anyway - Just to be clear here. If EMO meets requirements above what I require. That is ok with me. I miss your pink helmet. The Japanese squid head mask? I only use that when I have to look serious. |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 15, 2022 9:53:11 GMT -5
The "upgrade" will be handled with a replacement program to speed things up. Same as xmc-1 -> xmc-2. They speak about this in the podcast. You buy the "upgrade", send in the device and when emotiva receives the device they will ship you a upgraded device. They say they can explicit upgrade your device but it will take weeks per device.Emotiva could implement a program whereby we take a trip to Emotiva and work on our processor ourselves! This would be akin to someone who ordered a Corvette and was able to build their engine. Chevrolet charged an extra $5,800 for this experience. So maybe Emotiva can charge an extra $5,800 and we could build our processor then take it home that day. I'll do it if I receive a Corvette to drive home with my upgraded processor. Get my kicks, on Route 66, with a 1966 Corvette! |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 15, 2022 9:56:46 GMT -5
Again, Anyway - Just to be clear here. If EMO meets requirements above what I require. That is ok with me. I miss your pink helmet. The Japanese squid head mask? I only use that when I have to look serious. Ha! Is there a story behind that mask? One you could share? You can't wear something like that without a good story.  |
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NicS
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Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
Posts: 236
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Post by NicS on Oct 15, 2022 10:16:22 GMT -5
The Japanese squid head mask? I only use that when I have to look serious. Ha! Is there a story behind that mask? One you could share? You can't wear something like that without a good story. Not really Paul. Bought it for a shoot. Ended up making a motorcycle helmet out of a watermelon for the model to wear instead. Not much of a story. |
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Post by cwt on Oct 15, 2022 23:53:45 GMT -5
All the 4K sources I use have a GUI overlay. I call them up on the fly when needed. No instability occurs. I would like an explanation for why my cheap Panasonic 4K player can handle a GUI overlay without any problems, with any source it plays, but it becomes a problem in the G3P. I like a Web GUI for full setup. OSD is functional for playback use and quick setup. Appreciate the background Paul ; was just clarifying Nics point about "4k' being marketing and not up to scratch being around 3k iirc of resolution . pixels are not resolution to put it very simply. with any video derived from 35mm film ; a few quotes- Tests have show that for cinema applications high MTF at frequencies around 1000 lines per picture width or 500 lines per picture height (1K) is of the greatest importance for the perception of sharpness to the human eye, and this is what cinema cameras and systems are optimized for, NOT super high resolution that the viewer wont be able to see at their viewing distance. Anything we can do to lift mid band MTF pays dividends in visible sharpness, which is what we want It should be noted that 4K is subject to much greater losses than 2K. MTF limitations that have little impact on 2K can be devastatingly limiting at 4K, so 4k can never have double the resolution of 2K even if 8K cameras are used. I too took the hdmi passthrough gui problems into a/c before going with another ce ; I can only add that something like a Marantz 8805 has a clever switch out overlay for its gui so they dont interfere at all . I didnt see any mention of a gui in the g4p's features so maybe they are keeping it simple like the Arcam derivatives and monoprice htp1 and leaving it out . Hopefully this may enhance the stability if no gui exists  I seem to recall Lonnie once saying he would prefer no gui but dont ask me to dig it up in this thread  closest i could get; emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1098905 |
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Post by stephen on Oct 16, 2022 2:06:44 GMT -5
I’ve updated the second post in the G4P upgrade thread with G4P pricing information and added a FAQ, it will be updated as more information is acquired. Again, let’s keep the upgrade discussion there. The G4P / “+” Model Pricing and FAQ Post"Q) What if I purchased my G3P with UFL or 40% card? If your purchase and discount was against a full retail price unit, you will pay $699" Emotiva - This is a very reasonable plan, love the upgrade path at reasonable cost and continued viability of XMC-2 platform. |
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Post by aswiss on Oct 16, 2022 4:55:30 GMT -5
I’ve updated the second post in the G4P upgrade thread with G4P pricing information and added a FAQ, it will be updated as more information is acquired. Again, let’s keep the upgrade discussion there. The G4P / “+” Model Pricing and FAQ PostSo many information about G4P - but still no FW 3.0 I really hope that they can fix everything and that my RMC-1 is at least a 100% working device.
For the rest I will wait for the proper answer from Emotiva, regarding my questions for NON-US Customers.
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Post by junchoon on Oct 16, 2022 6:13:48 GMT -5
I’ve updated the second post in the G4P upgrade thread with G4P pricing information and added a FAQ, it will be updated as more information is acquired. Again, let’s keep the upgrade discussion there. The G4P / “+” Model Pricing and FAQ Post"Q) What if I purchased my G3P with UFL or 40% card? If your purchase and discount was against a full retail price unit, you will pay $699" Emotiva - This is a very reasonable plan, love the upgrade path at reasonable cost and continued viability of XMC-2 platform. Do take into consideration on how long they will promise such “good deal”. For example, just look at the 40% off card - would have been great if Emotiva honor this card longer. But nope |
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Post by doc1963 on Oct 16, 2022 7:00:36 GMT -5
"Q) What if I purchased my G3P with UFL or 40% card? If your purchase and discount was against a full retail price unit, you will pay $699" Emotiva - This is a very reasonable plan, love the upgrade path at reasonable cost and continued viability of XMC-2 platform. Do take into consideration on how long they will promise such “good deal”. For example, just look at the 40% off card - would have been great if Emotiva honor this card longer. But nope You might also take into consideration that those 40% Off “Next Generation Upgrade” cards were valid and in play for approximately 10 years. To me, that’s quite a long time. And as with anything else in life, all good things must eventually come to an end… |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 16, 2022 7:08:38 GMT -5
Do take into consideration on how long they will promise such “good deal”. For example, just look at the 40% off card - would have been great if Emotiva honor this card longer. But nope You might also take into consideration that those 40% Off “Next Generation Upgrade” cards were valid and in play for approximately 10 years. To me, that’s quite a long time. And as with anything else in life, all good things must eventually come to an end… I was about to say the same, I had the card for about eight years and had about five years to use it (nothing to buy before that). I felt that was plenty of time, but for some maybe the timing didn’t work out. |
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Post by junchoon on Oct 16, 2022 7:28:07 GMT -5
Yes the 40% card is a long time and some benefitted.
Just trying to interpret the current upgrade path more clearly
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NicS
Sensei
Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
Posts: 236
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Post by NicS on Oct 17, 2022 16:52:16 GMT -5
All the 4K sources I use have a GUI overlay. I call them up on the fly when needed. No instability occurs. I would like an explanation for why my cheap Panasonic 4K player can handle a GUI overlay without any problems, with any source it plays, but it becomes a problem in the G3P. I like a Web GUI for full setup. OSD is functional for playback use and quick setup. Appreciate the background Paul ; was just clarifying Nics point about "4k' being marketing and not up to scratch being around 3k iirc of resolution . pixels are not resolution to put it very simply. with any video derived from 35mm film ; a few quotes- Tests have show that for cinema applications high MTF at frequencies around 1000 lines per picture width or 500 lines per picture height (1K) is of the greatest importance for the perception of sharpness to the human eye, and this is what cinema cameras and systems are optimized for, NOT super high resolution that the viewer wont be able to see at their viewing distance. Anything we can do to lift mid band MTF pays dividends in visible sharpness, which is what we want It should be noted that 4K is subject to much greater losses than 2K. MTF limitations that have little impact on 2K can be devastatingly limiting at 4K, so 4k can never have double the resolution of 2K even if 8K cameras are used. I too took the hdmi passthrough gui problems into a/c before going with another ce ; I can only add that something like a Marantz 8805 has a clever switch out overlay for its gui so they dont interfere at all . I didnt see any mention of a gui in the g4p's features so maybe they are keeping it simple like the Arcam derivatives and monoprice htp1 and leaving it out . Hopefully this may enhance the stability if no gui exists I seem to recall Lonnie once saying he would prefer no gui but dont ask me to dig it up in this thread closest i could get; emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1098905I've done pretty exhaustive testing of this exact issue. I lecture in cinematography at the American Film Institute so talk regularly about the aesthetics of image resolution and how to control that factor. What is consistently fascinating is defining the point at which an image moves from literal depiction into one which tells a story. There is vast difference between the kind of cinematography used on shows like The Blue Planet and something like Euphoria. On The Blue Planet, you want to be experiencing the world as if looking through a window. In this respect high frame rate, high dynamic range, increased color depth and high image resolution are advantageous. This does not mean using this approach when photographing Meryl Streep will get you anything but sacked off that show. Most of what we watch (and yes that a rather large assumption) is content designed to tell stories. A large part of that storytelling comes from creating images that have beauty, and mystery, and depth. Consequently cinematographers use shallow depth of field, so 80% of the image just isn't in focus, shoot at 24fps so every image is ever so slightly motion blurred, use diffusion filters on "vintage" lenses to further reduce image resolution, finally filling studios and locations up with "atmosphere mist" to layer the backgrounds into further resolution disrupting mush. With me fellows at AFI, we deliberately aim for a "real-world" resolution at about 1K. Where 4K helps is when you get to color grading. Having an abundance of photosites allow for corrections to be made to the picture without any visible artifacts, despite what the measured on-screen resolution is. This makes the whole 8K push something of an anathema to me. For those who produce sports, nature documentaries or video games, I can see the advantage. For my end of the game, not so much. I had the opportunity to compare my Epson 5020 at nearly 10 years old to a Christie 4K projector I was going to use on a shoot. A brute of a thing costing $170,000. It took a while and a bunch of NDs to get the thing to a reasonable light level (it pushes a max 50,000 lumens). What I found was that on still graphic frames and high frame rate material, the Christie was amazingly sharp and precise, though on moving images from a movie like the latest James Bond from a 4K source, there was surprisingly little difference between the image quality of the 5020 and the Christie. Yes the Christie was better but not anywhere near $165,000 worth better. This put me off buying a 4K projector for while, though I am tempted by Sony's new VW352ES. Even more tempted by Sony's Crystal LED wall system, but I just don't have $200K to drop. I know this type of conversation is a little off-topic fro a forum dedicated to equipment fetishism. Though I though you might find it interesting. |
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Post by Gerard on Oct 18, 2022 11:46:06 GMT -5
So, a little while back I gave up on Emotiva, and the promised firmware. I purchased my RMC-1 many years back and we’ve had too many broken promises on functions & features that steered many of us to that processor.. And before someone chimes in with how good it sounds, I am a big analog two channel guy and it does. But that is like saying my car drives fast, and hopefully soon I’ll have steering and antilock brakes like they promised.
Saving my pennies for another processor.
What I can’t help thinking is will those who upgrade be on the next Emotiva forum waiting for them to fulfill and likely deliver short on the promises made for group of devices.
No trust or faith in the company sorry to say
Hopping for everyone I am wrong
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NicS
Sensei
Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
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Post by NicS on Oct 19, 2022 10:26:31 GMT -5
So, a little while back I gave up on Emotiva, and the promised firmware. I purchased my RMC-1 many years back and we’ve had too many broken promises on functions & features that steered many of us to that processor.. And before someone chimes in with how good it sounds, I am a big analog two channel guy and it does. But that is like saying my car drives fast, and hopefully soon I’ll have steering and antilock brakes like they promised. Saving my pennies for another processor. What I can’t help thinking is will those who upgrade be on the next Emotiva forum waiting for them to fulfill and likely deliver short on the promises made for group of devices. No trust or faith in the company sorry to say Hopping for everyone I am wrong Gerard. That was very accurately and succinctly stated. You echo the sentiment of so many here. All of us who bought into the RMC-1 / RMC-1L / XMC-2 are still waiting for the promised availability of firmware and/or hardware upgrades that will make their purchase fully justified, fully compliant with the advertising of the product that still exists online. And, as I have said before, Emotiva has engendered in us a level of loyalty one doesn't usually offer to a brand of electronics. It feels like a betrayal that the solution to our unified complaints will be remedied at our cost in the release of new equipment, rather than to meet the expectations of the equipment already purchased. The v2.5 firmware was released on January 18 of this year, just a two days after the release of v2.3. Since then, I have checked for a promised firmware update twice a week. The promise of the elusive v3.0 has been dangled in front of me like a juicy carrot. Now that carrot is a desiccated stick of broken promises. Nine months of waiting. Ironic in that it takes that long to create a whole new human, but apparently not enough time for a firmware update for a glitchy processor. So I find myself looking at other companies. Marantz has a new processor. So does McIntosh. There are increasingly more options. Yet, for some reason, I still feel that I should, maybe give, perhaps, with some reservation, Emotiva one last chance for redemption. Though like the carrot, that is withering as every day passes. |
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs 
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Oct 19, 2022 10:53:42 GMT -5
So, a little while back I gave up on Emotiva, and the promised firmware. I purchased my RMC-1 many years back and we’ve had too many broken promises on functions & features that steered many of us to that processor.. And before someone chimes in with how good it sounds, I am a big analog two channel guy and it does. But that is like saying my car drives fast, and hopefully soon I’ll have steering and antilock brakes like they promised. Saving my pennies for another processor. What I can’t help thinking is will those who upgrade be on the next Emotiva forum waiting for them to fulfill and likely deliver short on the promises made for group of devices. No trust or faith in the company sorry to say Hopping for everyone I am wrong Gerard. That was very accurately and succinctly stated. You echo the sentiment of so many here. All of us who bought into the RMC-1 / RMC-1L / XMC-2 are still waiting for the promised availability of firmware and/or hardware upgrades that will make their purchase fully justified, fully compliant with the advertising of the product that still exists online. And, as I have said before, Emotiva has engendered in us a level of loyalty one doesn't usually offer to a brand of electronics. It feels like a betrayal that the solution to our unified complaints will be remedied at our cost in the release of new equipment, rather than to meet the expectations of the equipment already purchased. The v2.5 firmware was released on January 18 of this year, just a two days after the release of v2.3. Since then, I have checked for a promised firmware update twice a week. The promise of the elusive v3.0 has been dangled in front of me like a juicy carrot. Now that carrot is a desiccated stick of broken promises. Nine months of waiting. Ironic in that it takes that long to create a whole new human, but apparently not enough time for a firmware update for a glitchy processor. So I find myself looking at other companies. Marantz has a new processor. So does McIntosh. There are increasingly more options. Yet, for some reason, I still feel that I should, maybe give, perhaps, with some reservation, Emotiva one last chance for redemption. Though like the carrot, that is withering as every day passes. I've looked at other processors as well as receivers and can't really find anything that would pull me away from Emotiva. The products are either way too expensive for my taste, or don't have XLR inputs (less expensive receivers). Then if you put any credence into testing by ASR, a majority of these boxes are not recommended. I thought the new Onkyo receiver with Dirac looked interesting, but ASR says"no good". If you look at other forums, most of the other products have issues also. I don't want to buy another set of problems. I also don't have the means to spend on something like Trinnov. So, what is one to do? So far for my 5.1 system use, I'd say I'm 95% happy with the XMC-2. That may change once I go to Atmos in the next couple years, but who knows. Edit: Emotiva needs to be much faster with firmware updates....the waiting just kills the mood... |
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NicS
Sensei
Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
Posts: 236
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Post by NicS on Oct 19, 2022 11:12:39 GMT -5
Gerard. That was very accurately and succinctly stated. You echo the sentiment of so many here. All of us who bought into the RMC-1 / RMC-1L / XMC-2 are still waiting for the promised availability of firmware and/or hardware upgrades that will make their purchase fully justified, fully compliant with the advertising of the product that still exists online. And, as I have said before, Emotiva has engendered in us a level of loyalty one doesn't usually offer to a brand of electronics. It feels like a betrayal that the solution to our unified complaints will be remedied at our cost in the release of new equipment, rather than to meet the expectations of the equipment already purchased. The v2.5 firmware was released on January 18 of this year, just a two days after the release of v2.3. Since then, I have checked for a promised firmware update twice a week. The promise of the elusive v3.0 has been dangled in front of me like a juicy carrot. Now that carrot is a desiccated stick of broken promises. Nine months of waiting. Ironic in that it takes that long to create a whole new human, but apparently not enough time for a firmware update for a glitchy processor. So I find myself looking at other companies. Marantz has a new processor. So does McIntosh. There are increasingly more options. Yet, for some reason, I still feel that I should, maybe give, perhaps, with some reservation, Emotiva one last chance for redemption. Though like the carrot, that is withering as every day passes. I've looked at other processors as well as receivers and can't really find anything that would pull me away from Emotiva. The products are either way too expensive for my taste, or don't have XLR inputs (less expensive receivers). Then if you put any credence into testing by ASR, a majority of these boxes are not recommended. I thought the new Onkyo receiver with Dirac looked interesting, but ASR says"no good". If you look at other forums, most of the other products have issues also. I don't want to buy another set of problems. I also don't have the means to spend on something like Trinnov. So, what is one to do? So far for my 5.1 system use, I'd say I'm 95% happy with the XMC-2. That may change once I go to Atmos in the next couple years, but who knows. I feel pretty much the same. I love the feature set and the look of the McIntosh MX180. But it's way, way too pricey. I run sources from Vinyl (Balanced - Reference Stereo), Roon via Streambox Ultra (HDMI - Direct), AppleTV 4K (HDMI - Direct), Reavon X-200 / Audio only output (Direct - HDMI), Reavon X-200 / Video Output (HDMI - Auto). I output to an aging projector (yes Brent - THAT OLD) and a variety of pro-monitors when I need to. I never have connection issues with the Vinyl, Streambox or AppleTV inputs, other than the occasional pop on changing input or the RMVC-1L not properly recognizing a change in codec or getting the decoding wrong altogether (easily fixed by just changing inputs and back again). My main issues are with playback of SACD, CD, BluRay & DVD. No matter what DVD player I try (Oppo, Panasonic, Sony, Reavon) there are aways handshake issues. But never with Apple TV, or Firestick, or Chromecast (the latter 2 I only use when looking at BAFTA or Academy Screeners). The only other big issue is the continued inability to play DSD files natively, which is stated as a feature on the RMC-1L online. Combined with the frequent need to reboot the processor when it starts to behave weirdly. So I'd put my satisfaction a little lower than yours. Maybe 75% |
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closest i could get;
