RMC-1/RMC-1L/XMC-2 Owners Thread (Post Firmware v1.10)

[drey]

My first journey into pre-pro was not what I expected, but I have learned my lesson. Random black screens, slow switching etc...from something that isn't exaclty inexpensive makes me recondsider the brand. The sound qaulity is great, but night and day from a Denon or Marantz in the same price range. No!

[wizardofoz]

We have been here many times….whatever you do….DONT HOLD YOUR BREATH!!!

[wizardofoz]

Oct 20, 2022 21:50:19 GMT -5 drey said:

My first journey into pre-pro was not what I expected, but I have learned my lesson. Random black screens, slow switching etc...from something that isn't exaclty inexpensive makes me recondsider the brand. The sound qaulity is great, but night and day from a Denon or Marantz in the same price range. No!

Every time my processor starts up Emotiva reminds me to rethink high end audio…it’s maybe a sign

[KeithL]

I suppose it's time for a little reminder here...

The purpose of this Forum is to provide a place for CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions, comments, and even criticism.  

(And, yes, it is OUR Forum.)

[KeithL]

We simply want to make sure that we get enough fixes into this release to make it a good idea... and that they actually work. 
(Note that we do have beta versions out in the field... but only to our beta testers.)

Oct 21, 2022 12:07:18 GMT -5 @brucelee said:

Stirring the pot yet again... Is EMO waiting until they get the "perfect" firmware or until the attempted fixes aren't worse than the problems they were supposed to address? Are we waiting on a 99.9% fix or a 99.99% fix? Is it time to send out 3.0 Beta? or are we still 3.0 Alpha? Time for field trials? ...who's ready to be the nextest bestest beta tester?

[Lsc]

Seems to me that Emotiva offering the upgrade to G4P for such little $ is admitting that the G3P is not really upgradable. I gotta be honest as I gave this some more thought. This actually beats UFL.

I do feel for the RMC-1 owners but maybe the expansion slots will provide more channels in the G4P ie RMC-1+.

Didn’t Emotiva address the slow response problems? My Xmc2 is pretty peppy to be honest. But no dang ARC. I think with eARC coming in the XMC2+, maybe it’ll work. But I’m not holding my breath. It’ll be here when it gets here. The summer of 2023 will be another missed target date. 😎

[KeithL]

Not exactly... but close.

The chassis is the same but the upgrade involves swapping most of the assemblies inside it.
That means that it would require a lot of labor... and labor means both money and time.
(If we got a lot in to upgrade at once it could mean significant turn-around delays in doing the upgrade.)
It's also worth noting that not everyone really wants or needs HDMI 2.1 and 8k.
(8k is gaining momentum but nobody expects 4k to go away any time soon.)
All of this taken together means that it makes more sense to swap your current unit for a new one... which we can do immediately.
Then service your original unit and sell it as Certified Factory Renewed to someone who still wants a nice 4k unit.

It's pretty much the same logic as the deal we did between the XMC-1 and the current processors...
Except that, in this case, there's nothing to physically prevent us from upgrading the existing units completely...
But it's still more practical to do it the other way.

Oct 21, 2022 13:28:01 GMT -5 Lsc said:

Seems to me that Emotiva offering the upgrade to G4P for such little $ is admitting that the G3P is not really upgradable. I gotta be honest as I gave this some more thought. This actually beats UFL.

I do feel for the RMC-1 owners but maybe the expansion slots will provide more channels in the G4P ie RMC-1+.

Didn’t Emotiva address the slow response problems? My Xmc2 is pretty peppy to be honest. But no dang ARC. I think with eARC coming in the XMC2+, maybe it’ll work. But I’m not holding my breath. It’ll be here when it gets here. The summer of 2023 will be another missed target date. 😎

[Lsc]

Oct 21, 2022 13:54:01 GMT -5 KeithL said:

Not exactly... but close.

The chassis is the same but the upgrade involves swapping most of the assemblies inside it.
That means that it would require a lot of labor... and labor means both money and time.
(If we got a lot in to upgrade at once it could mean significant turn-around delays in doing the upgrade.)
It's also worth noting that not everyone really wants or needs HDMI 2.1 and 8k.
(8k is gaining momentum but nobody expects 4k to go away any time soon.)
All of this taken together means that it makes more sense to swap your current unit for a new one... which we can do immediately.
Then service your original unit and sell it as Certified Factory Renewed to someone who still wants a nice 4k unit.

It's pretty much the same logic as the deal we did between the XMC-1 and the current processors...
Except that, in this case, there's nothing to physically prevent us from upgrading the existing units completely...
But it's still more practical to do it the other way.

Oct 21, 2022 13:28:01 GMT -5 Lsc said:

Seems to me that Emotiva offering the upgrade to G4P for such little $ is admitting that the G3P is not really upgradable. I gotta be honest as I gave this some more thought. This actually beats UFL.

I do feel for the RMC-1 owners but maybe the expansion slots will provide more channels in the G4P ie RMC-1+.

Didn’t Emotiva address the slow response problems? My Xmc2 is pretty peppy to be honest. But no dang ARC. I think with eARC coming in the XMC2+, maybe it’ll work. But I’m not holding my breath. It’ll be here when it gets here. The summer of 2023 will be another missed target date. 😎

Keith, the chassis is nothing. To consider keeping the chassis as a defense to the fact that the units are upgradable…seriously where does Emotiva get their logic from?

The labor is not the problem. Neither is the parts. It’s the economy of selling the G3P as a refurbished unit vs me sending my unit in and upgrading my unit for $699.

Well, I’m just glad emotiva made this decision. Now you all just need to build the new units going back to OEM - which I think is a great decision because we will get DLBC.

[PaulBe]

I'd like to see a survey of channel count that people actually use. What percentage of RMC owners now use the full 9.1.6 channel count available on both RMC's? What percentage of owners actually have a room capable of handling high channel counts like 9.1.6 and 11.1.8? The higher the channel count, the more difficult the implementation, the larger the room needs to be to map high channel count immersion, the better the firmware has to be. Costs go exponential. IMO, the likely real 11.1.8 customer, or higher channel count customer, is not an RMC customer. How many channels are allowed in a Dirac Live setup?

Dolby's ATMOS installation guide shows layouts for up to 11.1.8, and some additional speaker placement guidelines for up to 34 channels. I suppose one could map 34 channels in a normal size room with little mini-cube speakers. Why? Perhaps I would change my mind if I heard it. Perhaps. professional.dolby.com/siteassets/tv/home/dolby-atmos/atmos-installation-guidelines-121318_r3.1.pdf
11.1.8 would require one expansion slot in the RMC.

Expansion slots could be useful, but more for other things than additional output channel count - phono, balanced ins, digital ins, Dante, real bi-amp capability. Real bi-amp capability would sell more Emotiva amps. Put real bi-amp capability in the firmware. Make firmware that lets me map unused output channels for my own purposes. This Wide bi-amp function was never a bi-amp function.

[KeithL]

So you see my point then.

In order to perform the upgrade several of the internal parts have to be upgraded.
Specifically... two of the main boards get upgraded... then the power supply that runs them.
And, in order to do this, the entire unit must be disassembled, reassembled, and re-tested.
(These boards are not individually upgraded... they are replaced with newer and more capable hardware.)

A modern processor is essentially a computer...
And, with a computer, the CPU, the RAM, the motherboard, the hard drive, the graphics card, and the power supply can all be upgraded individually.
However it is quite often the case that, in order to upgrade one, you must upgrade several, or sometimes it simply doesn't pay to upgrade only one.

I should also point out that all of these details were not specifically known when we made our original statement.
For example, since development on the new HDMI board hadn't been finished yet, we didn't know whether the power supply would have to be upgraded or not.
The way we look at it we promised you an upgrade path... and we are now honoring that promise.

And, to be quite blunt, unless you have a sentimental attachment to your old case, it really doesn't matter.
The alternative would be that we actually replace only the necessary parts to perform the upgrade.
The result would be more work for us, a longer delay for you, and you DON'T get a new case.
(And, since there would a lot more labor involved, the price for the upgrade might actually also be higher.)

And, to be even more blunt, if we were one of the more typical mass market OEM-based vendors...
We'd simply be telling you to "toss the old one and buy a new one".
This way you're essentially getting a brand new unit for what you would otherwise have paid for a board upgrade.

I'll even point out that, when we did the "upgrade deal" with the XMC-1 to the XMC-2 ....
Existing owners of an XMC-1 actually got a brand-new unit for LESS than we'd originally planned to charge for the single upgrade board alone.
(If you really want to keep your old parts, and don't mind waiting a bit longer, and paying a bit more, we may be able to work something out to do yours that way .)

Oct 21, 2022 14:36:37 GMT -5 Lsc said:

Oct 21, 2022 13:54:01 GMT -5 KeithL said:

Not exactly... but close.

The chassis is the same but the upgrade involves swapping most of the assemblies inside it.
That means that it would require a lot of labor... and labor means both money and time.
(If we got a lot in to upgrade at once it could mean significant turn-around delays in doing the upgrade.)
It's also worth noting that not everyone really wants or needs HDMI 2.1 and 8k.
(8k is gaining momentum but nobody expects 4k to go away any time soon.)
All of this taken together means that it makes more sense to swap your current unit for a new one... which we can do immediately.
Then service your original unit and sell it as Certified Factory Renewed to someone who still wants a nice 4k unit.

It's pretty much the same logic as the deal we did between the XMC-1 and the current processors...
Except that, in this case, there's nothing to physically prevent us from upgrading the existing units completely...
But it's still more practical to do it the other way.

Keith, the chassis is nothing. To consider keeping the chassis as a defense to the fact that the units are upgradable…seriously where does Emotiva get their logic from?

The labor is not the problem. Neither is the parts. It’s the economy of selling the G3P as a refurbished unit vs me sending my unit in and upgrading my unit for $699.

Well, I’m just glad emotiva made this decision. Now you all just need to build the new units going back to OEM - which I think is a great decision because we will get DLBC.

[KeithL]

Indeed...
- more speakers
- more amplifier channels
- more wiring
- and possibly the cost of a big bribe to keep the significant other smiling while you cut holes in the ceiling and run wires...

Oct 21, 2022 15:02:02 GMT -5 PaulBe said:

I'd like to see a survey of channel count that people actually use. What percentage of RMC owners now use the full 9.1.6 channel count available on both RMC's? What percentage of owners actually have a room capable of handling high channel counts like 9.1.6 and 11.1.8? The higher the channel count, the more difficult the implementation, the larger the room needs to be to map high channel count immersion, the better the firmware has to be. Costs go exponential. IMO, the likely real 11.1.8 customer, or higher channel count customer, is not an RMC customer. How many channels are allowed in a Dirac Live setup?

Dolby's ATMOS installation guide shows layouts for up to 11.1.8, and some additional speaker placement guidelines. professional.dolby.com/siteassets/tv/home/dolby-atmos/atmos-installation-guidelines-121318_r3.1.pdf
11.1.8 would require one expansion slot in the RMC.

Expansion slots could be useful, but more for other things than additional output channel count - phono, balanced ins, digital ins, Dante, real bi-amp capability. Real bi-amp capability would sell more Emotiva amps. Put real bi-amp capability in the firmware. Make firmware that lets me map unused output channels for my own purposes. This Wide bi-amp function was never a bi-amp function.

[aswiss]

I was some sort p.....d when I read first time that there will be no HDMI Upgrade for the current platform, and there must be a Upgrade Path, which in fact means - give back the existing, get a newer one for xxx amount of money.

Technically I see the need for it - but it will hopefully not be so complicated with fixing issues in future.

After some days, I just accepted and sent mail to sales and pointed out my specific questions.

in your PC example - this is what happened to the Emotiva G3P.

You need a newer CPU, but it is no longer compatible with the existing motherboard. So you need the change the MB as well. But, when changing the MB, you also need the change the RAM, as the old board is 5 years and no longer supported. OK, the new MB, CPU and RAM will need a bit more Power - so the PSU needs to be changed as well.

Anyone will understand this.

When I got my machine, there was a Dealer in Germany who did also the support. Today, there is only a repair company somewhere.

I really hope, that you find an arrangement with some dealers in Europe, to have the exchange done there for this specific upgrade path.

As long no soldering is needed, it would be an easy Job for PC Guys like me, to do the build on my own. I know, there are warranty issues with that or what ever.

But maybe a cheaper way for the Europe customers.

Still a lot of time until summer 2023

Oct 21, 2022 15:13:08 GMT -5 KeithL said:

So you see my point then.

In order to perform the upgrade several of the internal parts have to be upgraded.
Specifically... two of the main boards get upgraded... then the power supply that runs them.
And, in order to do this, the entire unit must be disassembled, reassembled, and re-tested.
(These boards are not individually upgraded... they are replaced with newer and more capable hardware.)

A modern processor is essentially a computer...
And, with a computer, the CPU, the RAM, the motherboard, the hard drive, the graphics card, and the power supply can all be upgraded individually.
However it is quite often the case that, in order to upgrade one, you must upgrade several, or sometimes it simply doesn't pay to upgrade only one.

I should also point out that all of these details were not specifically known when we made our original statement.
For example, since development on the new HDMI board hadn't been finished yet, we didn't know whether the power supply would have to be upgraded or not.
The way we look at it we promised you an upgrade path... and we are now honoring that promise.

And, to be quite blunt, unless you have a sentimental attachment to your old case, it really doesn't matter.
The alternative would be that we actually replace only the necessary parts to perform the upgrade.
The result would be more work for us, a longer delay for you, and you DON'T get a new case.
(And, since there would a lot more labor involved, the price for the upgrade might actually also be higher.)

And, to be even more blunt, if we were one of the more typical mass market OEM-based vendors...
We'd simply be telling you to "toss the old one and buy a new one".
This way you're essentially getting a brand new unit for what you would otherwise have paid for a board upgrade.

I'll even point out that, when we did the "upgrade deal" with the XMC-1 to the XMC-2 ....
Existing owners of an XMC-1 actually got a brand-new unit for LESS than we'd originally planned to charge for the single upgrade board alone.
(If you really want to keep your old parts, and don't mind waiting a bit longer, and paying a bit more, we may be able to work something out to do yours that way .)

Oct 21, 2022 14:36:37 GMT -5 Lsc said:

Keith, the chassis is nothing. To consider keeping the chassis as a defense to the fact that the units are upgradable…seriously where does Emotiva get their logic from?

The labor is not the problem. Neither is the parts. It’s the economy of selling the G3P as a refurbished unit vs me sending my unit in and upgrading my unit for $699.

Well, I’m just glad emotiva made this decision. Now you all just need to build the new units going back to OEM - which I think is a great decision because we will get DLBC.

[brutiarti]

Maybe customers that paid full price for the RMC-1 and don’t want to take the upgrade path, can exchange it for the RMC-1L and get a $1K refund.

[jim80z]

Oct 21, 2022 12:24:57 GMT -5 KeithL said:

We simply want to make sure that we get enough fixes into this release to make it a good idea... and that they actually work. 
(Note that we do have beta versions out in the field... but only to our beta testers.)

Hey anyone on here Beta testing the next FW. Anything you can share on it? How does one get on the "official" beta program?

[webmst007]

I understand how frustrating the lack of development of the current platform appears. But I want to thank Emotiva for not giving up on the development of their AV processors and providing this upgrade path for current owners. Try getting anything like that out of Marantz/ Denon.
As for the current sentiments expressed here - you do not speak for me.
I'm very happy with my RMC1 and it absolutely destroyed the 2 Marantz processors it replaced - and it WAS sonically night and day difference.
I'd love to try Dirac subwoofer management and I'll get it either in a minidsp flex as an add-on if I feel like it or wait for a g4p replacement unit. I don't get HDMI issues because I paid the huge investment of $350 ( Australian - so around $250 US) for a nearly new HDfury Vertex2 to cover that and lldv to my Epson.
You can too.
So the deal next year is - get a new processor for either 600+ or 1000+ sign me up now.
Look I get the frustrations - but Emotiva have taken tough decisions which were necessary once the g3p limitations were apparent and this path was always going to cause upset.
I'm happy they've done this it's the right choice in my view.
If you are not happy about this - as I said - I understand - but you always have the choice - move to a mainstream provider - go to Marantz or Denon or Onkyo - avoid all the issues with a small boutique provider like Emotiva.
They will never have the resources of those worldwide companies. But I love small companies who sell directly and I'm prepared to support them. I'm not apologising for the lack of g3p development. But I understand why it's happening and know through this g4p announcement Emotiva acknowledges the situation and provides an option for upgrade if desired.
So no - I'm not here upset or worried - I get to use a great sounding processor which I paid US$3000 with my 40% card - which was an absolute bargain - and I get to upgrade next year for cheap as well.

[PaulBe]

Oct 21, 2022 18:52:44 GMT -5 webmst007 said:

I understand how frustrating the lack of development of the current platform appears. But I want to thank Emotiva for not giving up on the development of their AV processors and providing this upgrade path for current owners. Try getting anything like that out of Marantz/ Denon.
As for the current sentiments expressed here - you do not speak for me.
I'm very happy with my RMC1 and it absolutely destroyed the 2 Marantz processors it replaced - and it WAS sonically night and day difference.
I'd love to try Dirac subwoofer management and I'll get it either in a minidsp flex as an add-on if I feel like it or wait for a g4p replacement unit. I don't get HDMI issues because I paid the huge investment of $350 ( Australian - so around $250 US) for a nearly new HDfury Vertex2 to cover that and lldv to my Epson.
You can too.
So the deal next year is - get a new processor for either 600+ or 1000+ sign me up now.
Look I get the frustrations - but Emotiva have taken tough decisions which were necessary once the g3p limitations were apparent and this path was always going to cause upset.
I'm happy they've done this it's the right choice in my view.
If you are not happy about this - as I said - I understand - but you always have the choice - move to a mainstream provider - go to Marantz or Denon or Onkyo - avoid all the issues with a small boutique provider like Emotiva.
They will never have the resources of those worldwide companies. But I love small companies who sell directly and I'm prepared to support them. I'm not apologising for the lack of g3p development. But I understand why it's happening and know through this g4p announcement Emotiva acknowledges the situation and provides an option for upgrade if desired.
So no - I'm not here upset or worried - I get to use a great sounding processor which I paid US$3000 with my 40% card - which was an absolute bargain - and I get to upgrade next year for cheap as well.

A voice of reason. Thank you.

[AudioHTIT]

Here’s another reminder that there is a separate thread for discussing the G4P / G3P+ upgrade, let’s leave this one for those seeking help with the G3P.

xmc-rmc-processors-next-generation

[LCSeminole]

Oct 21, 2022 21:23:46 GMT -5 AudioHTIT said:

Here’s another reminder that there is a separate thread for discussing the G4P / G3P+ upgrade, let’s leave this one for those seeking help with the G3P.

xmc-rmc-processors-next-generation

Yes, lets do!!!....................Anything else posted not on subject WILL get deleted.

[LCSeminole]

Oct 21, 2022 18:24:55 GMT -5 jim80z said:

Oct 21, 2022 12:24:57 GMT -5 KeithL said:

We simply want to make sure that we get enough fixes into this release to make it a good idea... and that they actually work. 
(Note that we do have beta versions out in the field... but only to our beta testers.)

Hey anyone on here Beta testing the next FW. Anything you can share on it? How does one get on the "official" beta program?

Yes I am a beta tester, and no, beta testers are not at liberty to discuss their findings. Beta testers have agreed to keep their findings confidential and within the beta group, otherwise lose their beta group status. The beta group is full at the moment, but in the past, members requested when "Admin" posted for volunteers.

[carbonsummit]

Oct 21, 2022 18:52:44 GMT -5 webmst007 said:

I understand how frustrating the lack of development of the current platform appears. But I want to thank Emotiva for not giving up on the development of their AV processors and providing this upgrade path for current owners. Try getting anything like that out of Marantz/ Denon.
As for the current sentiments expressed here - you do not speak for me.
I'm very happy with my RMC1 and it absolutely destroyed the 2 Marantz processors it replaced - and it WAS sonically night and day difference.
I'd love to try Dirac subwoofer management and I'll get it either in a minidsp flex as an add-on if I feel like it or wait for a g4p replacement unit. I don't get HDMI issues because I paid the huge investment of $350 ( Australian - so around $250 US) for a nearly new HDfury Vertex2 to cover that and lldv to my Epson.
You can too.
So the deal next year is - get a new processor for either 600+ or 1000+ sign me up now.
Look I get the frustrations - but Emotiva have taken tough decisions which were necessary once the g3p limitations were apparent and this path was always going to cause upset.
I'm happy they've done this it's the right choice in my view.
If you are not happy about this - as I said - I understand - but you always have the choice - move to a mainstream provider - go to Marantz or Denon or Onkyo - avoid all the issues with a small boutique provider like Emotiva.
They will never have the resources of those worldwide companies. But I love small companies who sell directly and I'm prepared to support them. I'm not apologising for the lack of g3p development. But I understand why it's happening and know through this g4p announcement Emotiva acknowledges the situation and provides an option for upgrade if desired.
So no - I'm not here upset or worried - I get to use a great sounding processor which I paid US$3000 with my 40% card - which was an absolute bargain - and I get to upgrade next year for cheap as well.

Agreed. I caught hell from others a page or so before this, so I'll just say I agree.