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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 8, 2020 14:57:35 GMT -5
Edit: Dirac has now been released for the G3P, this thread is Official!The current Dirac discussion, in both the ‘Success at Last’ and the RMC/XMC Owners thread, is getting pretty interesting and more details are coming to light. I think this important and specialized topic needs its own thread, we need a dedicated place to continue the conversation, and especially to share our experiences now that Dirac Live is avaiable for the RMC-1, RMC-1L, and XMC-2. This thread will complement the ‘Owners Thread’ where general topics are discussed, we won’t bog that thread down with lengthy technical discussion, and allow it to help users with more typical use questions, I’ll put references there directing Dirac discussion here. We can use this thread for learning, sharing, and discussing our research and experiences with Dirac Live including Dirac Bass Control. We can then leave Hair Nick 's ‘Success at Last’ thread for the “when will it ship?”, “will it come automatically?”, “I didn’t get mine, what should I do?” questions. Hopefully this thread can stay mostly technical; how to, results, theory, new information.I’m not claiming any Dirac high ground, but will do my best to keep the second post up to date with relevant resources, information and links — I’m sure LCSeminole will also help out, and you're welcome to make suggestions, or post links too. The third post of this thread contains useful acronyms and a FAQ, I’ll try to keep that current as well. It might even be useful to copy some of the posts from the other threads, but I’ll leave that to those who wrote them, if you have some good information and want to carry it on here please feel free to copy and continue. I hope to learn along with the rest of you how we can make best use of Dirac with our systems. —Bruce —> 2nd Post with Resources and Links
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 8, 2020 14:57:52 GMT -5
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 8, 2020 14:57:58 GMT -5
Acronyms (to lessen the typing load)ARC : Audio Return ChannelCEC : Consumer Electronics ControlDL : Dirac LiveDLBC : Dirac Live Bass Control DLART : DL with Active Room TreatmentDRC : Digital Room CorrectionEDNIB : Emotiva Dirac Network Interface Box (aka LBB) eARC : enhanced Audio Return ChannelFAF : Fanily Acceptance Factor FAQ : Frequently Asked Question G3P : Any of the latest Emotiva Generation 3 Processors (RMC-1, RMC-1L, XMC-2) G4P : Any of the upcoming Emotiva Generation 4 Processors (RMC-1+, RMC-1L+, XMC-2+) HDMI : High Definition Multimedia Interface HDCP : High-bandwidth Digital Copy Protection LPS : Low Power Standby (a G3P standby setting that consumes less power) MLP : Main Listening PositionMSO : Multi Sub OptimizerOP : Original Post (the first post in a thread, setting the topic and scope of conversation) OP : Original Poster (alternate, the thread creator, traditionally responsible for keeping the thread ON Topic) OT : OFF Topic (a post unrelated to the OP) PCM : Pulse Code Modulation LPCM : Linear Pulse Code Modulation TLA : Three Letter Acronym VRO : Video Remains On (a G3P standby setting with faster startup) WAF : Wife Acceptance Factor Dirac FAQ (updated as needed)
Q : What is Dirac?A : Dirac Live® is an advanced digital room correction technology that utilizes sophisticated analysis of the speakers and the room to correct these colorations. Dirac Live Base Control is an optional add on product to optimize and improve subwoofer performance, it’s features include: Supports unlimited subwoofers, Corrects sound gaps and bass decline, Enhances bass crossover area for smoother reproduction, Utilizes machine learning for phase co-optimization, Bass Control is available as an expansion for users who already have a Dirac Live Room Correction license Q: What do I need to use Dirac on my G3P? A : The following are the requirements which will allow you to run the Dirac software, take measurements, and upload filters. - You’ll need the Dirac Live software which runs on a Windows or macOS computer or laptop. The supported platforms are: Windows 10 & 11, macOS 10.14 or later (including Big Sur/11 & Monterey/12), Ventura/13; This software is only used while you are taking measurements, creating filters, and uploading the filters to your G3P. After that the computer is not needed, unless you make changes or take additional measurements.
- You will also need the EDNIB package delivered by Emotiva, they began to ship on 7/20/2020 in order of purchase, it is now included with the processor.
- You should always use the latest recommended or required Firmware for your G3P, for Dirac to operate you must have at least version 2.0 — you can now download it at the link above.
- While you’re actually running the Dirac Live software, the computer, the G3P, and the EDNIB, must all be on the same logical network (subnet) — with access to the Internet. The EDNIB package will include a small network switch to facilitate this if needed.
- To hook up the Emotiva measurement microphone included with your G3P, the computer needs a USB-A port. Other compatible microphones may have different requirements (the UMIK-1 can use USB-A or C).
- To get the most accurate measurements you should download the calibration file for the microphone you use (Emotiva and UMIK links above).
- A mic stand with boom will help make your measurements more accurate and repeatable
- More details are available in the Emotiva Dirac Owners Manual linked above
Q: Should I set my Speaker Levels and Distance before running Dirac?A : Dirac ignores both the level and distance settings when it takes measurements, however there is a User Slot where distance is in effect. You can also make adjustments to the levels after Dirac filters are loaded (for fine tuning or preference). For these reasons it is recommended that you enter the correct distance settings for your MLP, and set all of your speaker levels to 0 (zero) before running Dirac.. Q : What are Dirac Filters?A: Filters are the results of the measurement, analysis, and correction process, they are uploaded to your G3P to apply the individualized DRC to your system. Q : How many Dirac filters can my G3P store?A: The G3Ps have two speaker presets, each preset has four ‘slots’, three of these slots can hold Dirac filters, the fourth can hold a user setting. So the G3Ps can hold a total of six Dirac filters. Q : Why would I want more than one Dirac filter?A: Some might want one filter for a ‘Home Theatre’ configuration using surround and possibly immersive speakers, and another filter for a ‘Two Channel’ music setup. It may also be desirable to have separate filters for Dolby Atmos and DTS:X, some might even want different filters for various seating locations. Q : Can I install new Firmware on top of any previous version?A : Yes Q : Where do I get the Dirac Live software and what version do I use?A : You will download it from Dirac via the link above, you will always use the ‘latest’ version, which at this time is 3.3.x Q : How much does Dirac cost?A: The base DL Software license is included in the cost of your G3P (or upcoming G4P), so it’s free to you. The DLBC add-on will be $299 for any number of subwoofers Q : When will Dirac be available for my G3P?A: Dirac Live is available now for all G3P. Q : When will the G3Ps support DLBC?A: No date has been announced, Emotiva has stated that they plan to support DLBC ( here) Q : If I backup my settings with the Menu > Setup > Advanced > Backup option, are my Dirac filters saved?A: All of your Dirac filters are saved when you do a backup, they are deleted when you do a factory reset, and put back when you do a restore. Q : How can I take more accurate and repeatable measurements?A : The following recommendations can help you take better measurements - Use a mic stand, or position your mic/meter so that you don’t have to hold it, but so that you can still take a good reading from the meter or readout. Not holding your mic or meter will also make it more likely you can repeat your measurement (by putting it back in exactly the same place), less likely that your hand doesn’t add noise to the noise (by rubbing on the case), and that it doesn’t move while you take your measurements.
- For setting levels, put your mic, meter, or phone in the MLP, for Dirac follow the described pattern.
- Take your measurements at a moderate level, 75 to 85 SPL dBC is a good range. While you can go lower, at some point background noise may influence your measurements, 60 db might be a good minimum. Too loud and distortion or resonance may influence your readings (not to mention you patience), 90 dB might be a good top end level.
- Use ‘C Weighting’. Weighting curves filter the output of the microphone and reduce frequencies at the extremes of the audible spectrum. C weighting filters the least of the common weighting scales (A, B, C), and is considered the standard for home theatre measurements.
- If you’re using a meter (mechanical or electronic), set the range so that the reading is in the upper/middle end of the scale, typically around zero, preferably above -10 dB. Not only is the meter more accurate in this part of its range, it’s also easier to take an accurate reading. Digital meters typically don’t have ranges.
- Use the ‘Slow’ function or mode, this reduces the erratic and quick movements of the meter or readout, and somewhat averages the reading over time. You might also consider using the ‘Max’ level if available, this captures the loudest sound encountered over the measurement period and holds it, if you choose to try this, I’d suggest increasing your measurement time.
- Setup your room similarly to how you normally watch or listen to your system. If you have a ladder out to change a light bulb put it away, if you normally have pillows arranged on your sofa put them out, etc.
- Keep your body out of the measurement path, and minimize your movements while taking measurements.
- Try to turn off anything that might make noise; HVAC, phones, clocks, washing machines.
- If you want to compare your measurements with past or future measurements, write them down, date them, and include any special notes (equipment changes, new furniture, etc.). A spreadsheet might be a good way to take notes..
Q: Are there any known issues with the current Firmware and Dirac?A : The The latest FW 3.2 and release notes can be found >>> HERE!. Q: My Dirac Live Hears Voice but not test tones? A: We have received several reports about an unusual problem when running Dirac Live on Windows 11 computers. The problem manifests itself as a situation where the microphone appears to work, and the meters bounce when you talk, but the microphone DOES NOT respond, or barely responds, to the test tones or to other sounds like finger snaps or tapping the microphone. This problem may also cause the microphone to respond incorrectly to the level of the test tones. The cause of the problem is activation of a Windows 11 feature that is intended to "enhance voice communications" by basically suppressing any sounds picked up by the microphone other than human voice. Unfortunately, because this feature is implemented slightly differently on computers of different brands, and computers with different brands of sound cards, we cannot offer a single set of instructions to disable it. However we can tell you what to look for - and what settings you want in order for Dirac Live to work correctly. If you are having this problem then you will probably find one or more of these options on your particular computer. Note that the wording or options may vary slightly on your computer. We suggest that you try these in order and, if you find one, try it... and no need to look further if it solves the problem. Note that you may or may not have to select which microphone these settings apply to - and the option may ONLY appear when the microphone is connected. Also note that we have instructed you to turn off these settings for "all microphones". In many cases it may be possible to change a setting for individual microphones. If so, it may be sufficient to disable the option for just our microphone. You may also find other similar options on other brands of computers. (Note that Windows considers these to be "voice enhancements" or "communications enhancements" - so they will be labeled accordingly.) 1. In Windows - go to: Settings > System > Sound > More Sound Settings > Communications if you see "When Windows detects communications activity" set the option to "DO NOTHING". now go to: Settings > System > Sound > Input > Microphone set "Audio Enhancements" to "OFF" 2. In Windows (on some Lenovo computers) - go to: Settings > System > Sound scroll down to: Advanced click on: All Sound Devices > (our calibrated microphone) scroll down to: Audio Enhancements and click "OFF" 3. In Windows (on some Acer computers) - search for an App named Realtek Audio Console (possibly under Acer Control) on ALL speakers: set "Speaker Noise Cancellation" to "OFF" on ALL microphones: set "AI Noise Reduction" to "OFF" 4. In Windows (on some Windows Computers) - search for an App named Realtek Audio Console select Microphone under Microphone Effects you will probably see several things: possibly "noise suppression", "beam forming", "AEC" switch ALL Microphone Effects "OFF" 5. If you are unable to find any of these then look for some sort of "control panel" or "sound settings app" that goes with the sound card you have installed in your particular computer.
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Post by geebo on Jun 8, 2020 15:22:15 GMT -5
Here's to a successful and short lived beta program so that we may soon be enjoying the fruits of what is arguably the best room correction system available.  |
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Post by markc on Jun 8, 2020 16:18:27 GMT -5
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 8, 2020 16:39:55 GMT -5
Thanks, Fixed! Let me know if you see anything else, or have any other pertinent links. |
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Post by marcl on Jun 8, 2020 18:34:56 GMT -5
Excellent! I'm ready, willing, AND RETIRED! So I will be doing a very comprehensive test of Dirac 2+ or 3+ when we get it. Having a good year and a half of dozens of calibrations with Dirac 1.0, and having read the Manual (twice) I will leave no mode unturned :-)
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Jun 8, 2020 19:15:48 GMT -5
I'm just wondering how much is really needed to beta test. Isn't the actual software from Dirac used by all manufacturers employing this room correction software in their processors? If so, then NAD, Storm Audio, Trinnov, Monoprice, Arcam, JBL, Audio Control, Lexicon, etc., etc., processor owners should have already paved the way in cleaning up bugs in the Dirac Live software.
I'm guessing the beta testers in the field will be verifying that the "network interface" box is correctly communicating between the Emotiva processors and the latest Dirac Software that's running on your computer, while taking room measurements with your choice of mic with calibration file.
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Post by junchoon on Jun 8, 2020 23:10:30 GMT -5
Excellent! I'm ready, willing, AND RETIRED! So I will be doing a very comprehensive test of Dirac 2+ or 3+ when we get it. Having a good year and a half of dozens of calibrations with Dirac 1.0, and having read the Manual (twice) I will leave no mode unturned :-) Emotiva’s implementations of Dirac allow upgrade to 3.0? Hmm |
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Post by ttocs on Jun 8, 2020 23:14:23 GMT -5
Excellent! I'm ready, willing, AND RETIRED! So I will be doing a very comprehensive test of Dirac 2+ or 3+ when we get it. Having a good year and a half of dozens of calibrations with Dirac 1.0, and having read the Manual (twice) I will leave no mode unturned :-) Emotiva’s implementations of Dirac allow upgrade to 3.0? Hmm It is to be whichever version is the currently available one. So, V3.x. |
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Post by marcl on Jun 9, 2020 6:41:48 GMT -5
Emotiva’s implementations of Dirac allow upgrade to 3.0? Hmm It is to be whichever version is the currently available one. So, V3.x. Seems like the best way to get a straight answer on a simple question is to take a bunch of guesses until someone decides we've drifted so far off the mark that an answer is warranted. So here's my guess: 1 - I shouldn't have said "2+" in my previous post ... from now on it's 3+ for everyone. From everything Emotiva and Dirac have said for this "post 1.0 era", there is only ever one production version of the Dirac code that runs in the PC. So if Dirac is shipping 3.0, we all get 3.0. When they ship 3.1, we get 3.1. It runs in the PC, and everybody gets the same version. 2 - The version of Dirac has nothing to do with Dirac Bass Control from here on. The current and future versions of base Dirac support DBC, but support for DBC in your processor depends on the product manufacturer. 3 - Given that we need the Emotiva interface box to enable communication between Dirac running in the PC and the RMC/XMC, then there is a CHANCE that a future version of base Dirac might require a code update to the interface box and/or the RMC/XMC firmware. The latter might be Dirac code, Emotiva code, or both. 4 - The beta testing now going on has to do with the following (my wild-ass guess): Activation/license verification process; Implementation of the interface box hardware/software for stable control of the measurement process and transfer of Dirac configurations from PC to RMC/XMC; Implementation of menu items in the RMC/XMC (Preset menus and functions as previously described). We can assume the actual running of Dirac filters in the RMC/XMC has already been verified and is not part of beta test. Anything else we need to be clarified? Hopefully Keith or Lonnie can just give this description a thumbs up. |
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Post by Lonnie on Jun 9, 2020 8:47:22 GMT -5
I'm just wondering how much is really needed to beta test. Isn't the actual software from Dirac used by all manufacturers employing this room correction software in their processors? If so, then NAD, Storm Audio, Trinnov, Monoprice, Arcam, JBL, Audio Control, Lexicon, etc., etc., processor owners should have already paved the way in cleaning up bugs in the Dirac Live software. I'm guessing the beta testers in the field will be verifying that the "network interface" box is correctly communicating between the Emotiva processors and the latest Dirac Software that's running on your computer, while taking room measurements with your choice of mic with calibration file. You are on the right track. The software will be the same as what everyone has. The big difference is how it communicates to our system. The DSP work is done (which was a nightmare) so now it just comes down to field testing the coms package. Lonnie |
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Post by markc on Jun 9, 2020 13:20:12 GMT -5
Emotiva’s implementations of Dirac allow upgrade to 3.0? Hmm It is to be whichever version is the currently available one. So, V3.x. But, we need to differentiate. Dirac Live (V1, V2, and the newest V3.0.0) is the software that takes measured room response and generates room correction filters. Most users will probably generate the same kind of filters that Dirac Live (Full Range rather than Lite) on the XMC-1 generated. V3.0.0 introduced Dirac Bass Control filter generation capability which everyone should use on Dirac Surround Sound Processors but which some users can select as an enhanced alternative to standard Dirac Live filters, . Using Dirac Live 3.0.x does not automatically mean we get access to the Bass Control aspect. Dirac Live 3.0.0 has a better looking interface than 2.x AND will allow access to the optional Bass Control filter generation for people who: Have a Surround Sound Processor that supports Dirac Bass Control (Highly unlikely to be the XMC-2/RMC when we first get Dirac but Keith states it is their intention to add support later) AND either: a) have a Dirac Bass Control license included in the cost of their processor (This won't include Emotiva processors) OR: b) Purchase a license from Dirac at $350 for single sub / $500 for multi sub For those users, V3.0.x and beyond allows them to generate both standard Dirac Live and Dirac Live Bass Control filters to use as a filter set. For the rest of us, 3.0.x will only allow standard filters |
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Post by markc on Jun 9, 2020 13:45:33 GMT -5
I am not too impressed with the upcoming Dirac filter configurations for the XMC-2/RMC models. I know it is not here yet, but I can already see some optimisations that would suit more users better if they were possible.
I know I should not grumble, we were all wanting more filter sets than the single one offered on the XMC-1, but the upcoming XMC-2/RMC Dirac will, in practice, only give two configurations (with the other four having to be manually selected)
Incoming Dirac/Speakers config - Two speaker presets with fixed number/size/position configurations, each with a choice of four equalisation setups: 3 Dirac Live filter sets and one manual setup for PEQ
The problem with this choice is you only have two setups in reality, as the Dirac filter set defaults to the last one used in that preset. You have to manually change the Dirac filter within the config.
If possible I think it would be better to have 6 (or more) completely different speaker configurations each with one choice from two equalisations (Dirac/PEQ/(or None)) rather than two speaker presets with four equalisations each (giving 8 configurations in theory but only two are easily selectable)
In my idea, a user sets a speaker config and can then set one equalisation to be used for that preset (from Dirac / Flat / Manual(Peq) ), and then measures and generates a single Dirac filter-set within that config to use as required
There would still give six stored Dirac filter sets, but in six configuration presets, rather than two.
e.g.
Config 1: User set as default on Input 1 for music listening: 2.0 All Speakers Large, Flat(No Dirac or Eq)
Config 2: User set as default on Input 2 for Blu-ray disc player/HTPC: 7.2.4 All speakers Small, Dirac (Filters measured with living room doors open to hallway as per normal setup)
Config 3: User set as default on Input 5 for PS4: 7.2 speakers (tops not included), all small, (but differently calculated Dirac filters measured with the microphone at the main listening position on beanbag recliners in the middle of the room rather than sat on the sofa)
Config 4: 7.2.4 All speakers Small, Dirac (but differently calculated Dirac filters measured with the living room doors closed rather than open)
Config 5: 7.2.4 All speakers Small, Dirac (but differently calculated Dirac filters measured with the microphone at a narrow listening point on the sofa / front row of seating for one person/selfish listening)
Config 6: 7.2.4 All speakers Small, Dirac (but differently calculated Dirac filters optimised for multi-row seating with the microphone measuring over a wider listening position and covering all rows of cinema style seating)
etc etc.
I think it is more likely that the listening environment will change (Doors open vs closed, front row vs multi row, Single user vs multiple listeners) rather than the number of speakers in the room.
For me, with the upcoming speaker presets, I am likely to have speakers presets 1 & 2 both set up as 7.2, and measure different Dirac filers for different listening patterns as I can see four or five that I might quite like. I won't also be able to have just one 2.0 stereo non Bass Control speaker config.
My setup idea still has six sets of differently measured Dirac filters, Like the upcoming Emotiva model, but any of them can be set as default for that input, or flipped to manually
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 9, 2020 15:35:29 GMT -5
... The problem with this choice is you only have two setups in reality, as the Dirac filter set defaults to the last one used in that preset. You have to manually change the Dirac filter within the config. If possible I think it would be better to have 6 (or more) completely different speaker configurations each with one choice from two equalisations (Dirac/PEQ/(or None)) rather than two speaker presets with four equalisations each (giving 8 configurations in theory but only two are easily selectable) In my idea, a user sets a speaker config and can then set one equalisation to be used for that preset (from Dirac / Flat / Manual(Peq) ), and then measures and generates a single Dirac filter-set within that config to use as required There would still give six stored Dirac filter sets, but in six configuration presets, rather than two. ... Let's not forget that, as of right now, if you want acceptable Dolby and DTS listening, there goes your two presets due to Tops vs Heights. I too will struggle with two speaker presets, and have been lamenting the loss of the 3rd preset we had with the XMC-1 -- where there was Speaker 1 & Speaker 2 w/ or wo/ PEQ and a 3rd preset for Dirac (with remote codes for all three). What I could live with are the two presets as they're currently designed; I might set them up as Preset 1 for Atmos & Preset 2 for DTS:X, both would be 7.2.4 or whatever I end up with for HT. Then the third would just have PEQ & Tone available, which I'd use for 2 channel or 2.2 with bass management. As it is I will probably choose an Atmos setup for Speaker 1 and a 2 channel setup for Speaker 2, then see how difficult it will be to store a "DTS Filter" in the Atmos setup and manually change speakers between Tops & Heights or whatever works best. For now I'm looking forward to trying what we have, but letting Emotive know how we'll use the processors is helpful as they may come up with a way to meet our needs in the future. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 9, 2020 15:59:53 GMT -5
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Jun 10, 2020 15:10:14 GMT -5
So it looks like while we will get Dirac 3.0 (based on another forum), the bass control feature will be disabled until Emotiva gets that working.
Probably a feature flag on Dirac’s side.
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Post by goodfellas27 on Jun 11, 2020 18:25:46 GMT -5
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 24, 2020 10:07:38 GMT -5
Dirac only supports Dirac 3 which came out about the same time the current Dirac 2 manual was released, I expect the next revision to clarify that. I don’t think you can even download Dirac 2 anymore, but maybe there an old link somewhere. Dirac has stated that everyone will use the same code.
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Post by marcl on Jun 25, 2020 9:57:23 GMT -5
Reasonable assumption that it supports all the speakers that the unit supports. I've read the manual and the differences are relatively small. Yes, the 9/13/17 point options for measurement instead of the 9 point with three patterns from 1.0. Subs are handled the same as in 1.0. They're measured and corrected separately from each other, essentially treated like all the other speakers. And the UI is new, but no real different functionality. It's like "Dirac Full" on the XMC-1. On the Emotiva side we get to save multiple Dirac filter sets, which is important to some folks. Not clear what changes Dirac may have made to the algorithms for filter creation and impulse response correction. There's a talk by someone from Dirac Saturday during this Hi-Fi Summit: thehifisummit.com/2020q2seminars/Maybe we'll get some insight. |
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