Heading back to 2 channel... for now

[LuisV]

Oct 24, 2020 17:18:17 GMT -5 chops said:

Nice system build, and I just noticed that we're somewhat neighbors... Somewhat. 

So what was your thoughts on sound between the Bluesound Node 2i vs Raspberry Pi 4? I had the Node 2 and think the Pi 4 is much superior. Running the Node 2 via coax and the Pi 4 via USB into my Schiit Bifrost 2 side by side, the Pi 4 was the clear winner in every way, shape and form, at least for me in my system. With that being said, if the Node 2/2i came with USB output, I'd still be running one of them most likely, though I have zero complaints with the Pi 4. 

BTW, if you plan on rolling tubes every once in a while, I'd urge you to get some socket savers and/or tube risers as they are also known. They come up flush with the top of the Freya's chassis and gives you better access the tubes. No chance in smacking the glass up against the edge of that opening in the chassis. 

Thanks... the room is coming along; slow, but steady.  I've been looking for socket savers, so if you can let me know where you got yours from, I'll order the same ones.  We're about 85% moved out of NY as our son goes to College up there; can't wait to be 100% done with the cold and snow... lol

I had the opposite reaction.... I was originally using a Pi4 connected to a Bifrost 2 with a pair or Arendal towers; the combo sounded harsh, highs had a edginess to them and we experienced ear fatigue after 10 - 15mins of listening.  Since I didn't have another source nor DAC on hand, I picked up the Node 2i to see if it was the Pi4 / Bifrost combo and there was a reduction; however, it was still there.  I picked up a pair of Wharfedale EVO 4.2s from Crutchfield and voila... the sound was much better to our ears.  I went with Crutchfield as they have a great return policy with reasonable return shipping costs.  I was rushing due to the Schiit 15 day return policy, so I unfortunately never put the Bifrost back in the signal chain to verify if the harshness was due to the Arendal speakers; my mistake for rushing.  The Arendals and Bifrost were returned and a pair of EVO 4.4s were ordered as I wanted to see if the extra driver and larger cabinet would provide enough bass... mission accomplished and the 4.2s were returned.  I'm dying to audition the Elysian 2 or 4, but I rather that my son graduates college debt free or as close to debt free as possible, than be selfish and have a really nice pair of speakers.  

I have a Modi Multibit in NY that I plan on using with the Pi4 to see how they compare to the Node 2i; my son should be bringing it down within the next couple of weeks when he's done with school, so I'll post feedback after I have some time with it.  

[chops]

Here's the link from the seller I got my socket savers from... www.ebay.com/itm/1x-NEW-TUBE-SOCKET-SAVER-FOR-8-PIN-OCTAL-TUBES-6L6-6V6-6SN7-EL34-etc/253063330770?hash=item3aebbffbd2:g:Lq8AAOSwbn5Zd4mv

Kind of odd about the Pi 4 and Bifrost. No matter what amp/speaker combo I've used, the Pi 4 or Bifrost were never bright. Then again, neither was the Node 2. Maybe you'll have better luck with the Modi Multibit. 

[LuisV]

Thanks for the link... order placed!

I'm thinking the culprit was the Arendal speakers, but in my haste, I forgot to do a quick test with the Wharfedales before I had shipped it back to Schiit; lesson learned.

[LuisV]

5 socket savers (1 for my Lyr) and a pair of Raytheon 6SN7GTB tubes are on their way...

[LuisV]

Happy Thanksgiving!   Currently cooking the Raytheon/Baldwins on the right with the GEs on the left.

[LuisV]

Picked up Pangea's AC 14SE MKII power cables for the Freya, Node 2i and Oppo BDP-103.  Was tired of the 6' long cables and after pricing DIY options, these were actually cheaper.

[LuisV]

11 out of 13 panels from my GIK order have been delivered... Gonna be a busy weekend.  

_

[LuisV]

Diggin these Pangea power cables... great build quality, flexible, and with a price close to DIY, you simply can't complain.   My goal was to replace the stock cable with a shorter, better shielded cable and these more met my needs!  I just replaced two 2 meter (78.7") power cords that Emotiva supplies with the CMX-2 and CMX-6 with two .6 meter (23.6") cables... I got rid of a ton of excess cable and these look much better!!       

The million dollar question.... any perceivable sound difference over the stock cables... none that I can hear.  I was rewarded with a much nicer look and a huge reduction in cable clutter; well worth their price in my eyes.

 

[LuisV]

Nov 28, 2020 16:55:13 GMT -5 LuisV said:

11 out of 13 panels from my GIK order have been delivered... Gonna be a busy weekend.  

Decided to wait until the tri-traps were delivered before I tackled the installation with help from my son; they arrived this past Wednesday.

GIK installs eye hooks and provides thick wire to hang the panels; however, I decided to use French cleats (z-bars) instead.  I had a few on hand; however, needed more, so I purchased these from Amazon:

French Cleats (Z-Bars)



I only used 2 of the mounting holes per bar and was able to catch studs in some locations and where a stud wasn't present, I used standard sheetrock anchors and screws with a 50lbs rating.  After using the mirror trick to find the reflection points, I marked the reflection points with blue painters tape.  Using a laser level made it a breeze to make sure the wall mounted portion of the french cleats were at the same height and I used 1' drywall screws to mount the second part of the cleat to the top rear / center of the panels.  After a few mins of vacuuming the sheetrock dust, it was a matter of simply hanging the panels onto the wall portion of the French cleat, making sure each panel was level and moving onto the next one.  Rather painless, but we took our time as we measured twice before making holes in the walls.  

All wall panels were hung and the tri-traps were placed in the corners behind the speakers... the before and after listening experience was dramatic to say the least.   Before we started, I kicked off a Tidal playlist and my son and I listened to a few songs to get a starting point.  We let the music continue to play as we mounted the panels and as we started to hear differences in the room, we found ourselves sitting back down and discussing the changes.  Took a few hours from start to finish, but we had fun and found ourselves listening and discussing the differences... all in all a great afternoon.

Next steps are to mount the 3 panels to the ceiling and create a "cloud" between the system and listening position... more to come...

[LuisV]

So far they have only a few hours in the Freya; however, I'm digging the RCA 6SN7GTB tubes from the early 60s.  Gonna let these bake for a few weeks, before I try the CBS 6SN7GTB from the mid 50s.   Then I'll bake the Psvane... 

[LuisV]

Only baked the RCAs for a week as I had the opportunity for extended play time due to a few days off from work. 

Cooking the CBS 6SN7GTB tubes with 2-Hole Black Plates and Bottom "D" Getter; 1956 Week 22.   

[LuisV]

Figured it would be best to start documenting my tube rolling experience and thoughts thus far.  Haven't found a tube I didn't particularly like; however, some sounded better and "color" the sound more than others... I'll do my best to describe what I heard. 

Before taking the plunge, I combed through various Freya tube rolling forum posts as I wanted to become more acquainted with the 6SN7 offerings and gain experience from other owners.  Most owners indicated that the right pair of tubes have the most impact to the overall "sound" quality; therefore, quad sets aren't required; matched pairs are recommended though.  After reading various posts and messaging Freya owners, I decided to take the plunge down the rabbit hole... 

My observations are listed based on what was provided with the Freya and then in order of purchasing / delivery.  Besides the Tung-Sols and Electro-Harmonix quad matched sets, the rest were matched pairs installed on the right side of the Feya.

Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB - Stock tubes

• Dynamic, punchy with less of that "tube" sound, if that makes sense. I've seen / heard Youtubers call the sound signature of the Tung-Sols as the "new" tube sound, not warm; however, certainly not clinical nor cold sounding.  They provide just enough "color", yet are different when comparing the sound to older tubes.  They provide a wide soundstage, yet it is not as deep as some of the other tubes I have on hand.  All in all a great sounding tube, nothing particularly "magical", just a nice sounding tube that is readily available at a decent price point.

Electro-Harmonix 6SN7 - Matched Quad Set - Tube Depot - $23.95 / each

• I enjoyed their 6922 in my Schiit Vali headphone amp, so these were the 1st tubes that I purchased for the Freya.   They are extremely similar to the Tung-Sols; however, have less width to the sounds stage as they sounded ever so slightly "boxed in" in comparison.  Don't get me wrong, the soundstage didn't suck; the presentation from the Tung-Sols was simply wider.  If I didn't have the Tung-Sols to compare them to, these would be perfect as far as an inexpensive set of readily available tubes.  

GE 6SN7GTA with copper grid posts, "D" getter; 1950s - Tube Depot - $159 / matched pair

• Slightly less bass than the Tung-Sols; however, they are much warmer, so I'm starting to hear the "color" that I prefer.  Call it distortion if preferred, but I'm starting to hear the "magic" of tubes and those sonic qualities weren't present with the Tung-Sols.  The GEs have the same dynamics, impact, and wide soundstage of the Tung-Sols, so I decided to keep them on the left side, while testing the other "NOS" tubes I have.   No particular sound quality reason for that decision, I felt, since they were also "NOS" tubes that they should pair better with the rest of the tubes I had purchased.  

RAYTHEON 6SN7GTB short bottle with side "D" getter and black plates - eBay - $38.93 / matched pair

• After letting them cook for a few days, I finally heard the "magic" I was looking for.  They have a wider, deeper and taller soundstage.  Smooth vocals, fantastic guitar... simply a better sounding tube.  There is more presence to the music... just all around better.   I regards to soundstage depth, it sounded as though aspects of the soundscape came from behind the speakers.... as in, a few feet behind the speakers... they simply disappeared... they added more dimension to the sound than what I previously heard with the other tubes.  

RCA 6SN7GTB with bottom getter and black plates; one dated May 1961, the other Nov 1963 -  eBay - $47.93 / matched pair

• Nice sounding tubes, but a step down from the Raytheon; these are more like the GEs.  They still put a smile to my face, but the Raytheon's are superior.   I'll need to do a longer A/B test, but after an quick comparison, I prefer the GEs over the RCAs.

CBS 6SN7GTB with 2-Hole black plates and bottom "D" getter; 1956 Week 22 - eBay - $59.33 / matched pair

• Initially reminded me of the Raytheon's, but after a quick A/B, they sounded more like the GE and RCAs; however, with deeper bass.  Much warmer than the Tung-Sols and Electro-Harmonix, but not as "magical" as the Raytheon's.  I prefer these over the GEs and RCAs due to the bass impact... it's not bloated, simply deeper with faster / tighter definition.   I'll probably keep these on the left side once I finish testing all the tubes I have.

I have these on hand, just haven't gotten to them yet.

• Psvane UK-6SN7 factory matched - Grant Fidelity - $119.95 / factory matched pair
• Sylvania 6SN7GTA with 3 hole black plates; 1954 Week 13 - eBay - $89.93 / matched pair
  
• RCA 6C8G with 6SL7 adapter and cable - eBay - $92.50 matched pair

After listening to 6 different tubes, new and "NOS", below is my order of preference; however, as older tubes become more expensive and more difficult to find, I have two options for relatively inexpensive, great sounding and readily available tubes in the Tung-Sols and Electro-Harmonix. [/span]

1. RAYTHEON 6SN7GTB short bottle
2. CBS 6SN7GTB
   
3. GE 6SN7GTA 
   
4. RCA 6SN7GTB
   
5. Tung-Sols
6. Electro-Harmonix

The Raytheon 6SN7GTB medium bottle with black plates, halo getter are currently LOST in Transit and I was refunded by the seller.  Not sure if I plan to order another pair; however, if I do, I'll post an update.

[LuisV]

Time to cook the Sylvania 6SN7GTA with 3 hole black plates; 1954 Week 13

[LuisV]

Been cooking the Sylvania's for 6 days, but due to the holidays, they have had extended play time.... 

Sylvania 6SN7GTA with 3 hole black plates; 1954 Week 13 - eBay - $89.93 / matched pair

• Hot damn... where do I begin?  Dynamics with a more refined and detailed sound signature, yet not sounding dry, edgy nor clinical... instrument placement, soundstage and soundscape is on par with the Raytheon 6SN7GTB short bottle.  Bass is on par with the Tung-Sols... you can hear that distinct sound that a drum mallet makes the moment it strikes the drum... decay of cymbals sound.. well... correct and natural.  I'll need to do a bake off between these and the Raytheon's, but these are very nice sounding tubes.   I hear hints to the spatial depth that the Raytheon's provide, butt they are not as "holographic", so I'm going to let these play for a few more days as they are extremely enjoyable.  I find myself wanting to listen to songs outside of the playlist I created for these listening sessions... 

I haven't gotten to these yet... can't wait...

• Psvane UK-6SN7 factory matched - Grant Fidelity - $119.95 / factory matched pair
• RCA 6C8G with 6SL7 adapter and cable - eBay - $92.50 matched pair
  

After listening to 7 different tubes, below is how I currently rank them... 

1. RAYTHEON 6SN7GTB short bottle and Sylvania 6SN7GTA with 3 hole black plates
2. CBS 6SN7GTB
   
3. GE 6SN7GTA
4. RCA 6SN7GTB
   
5. Tung-Sols
   
6. Electro-Harmonix

The Raytheon 6SN7GTB medium bottle with black plates, halo getter are currently LOST in Transit and I was refunded by the seller. Not sure if I plan to order another pair; however, if I do, I'll post an update.

[chops]

Nice group of mini reviews. Really enjoying reading your findings.

You still need to try a pair of Baldwin/Raytheon 6SN7's. They're a real treat! Still my favorite out of the tubes I have.

[LuisV]

Jan 2, 2021 10:47:18 GMT -5 chops said:

Nice group of mini reviews. Really enjoying reading your findings.

You still need to try a pair of Baldwin/Raytheon 6SN7's. They're a real treat! Still my favorite out of the tubes I have.

Thanks! I have a pair arriving today. 😀

[LuisV]

The RCA 6C8G with 6SL7 adapters were delivered today... can't wait for round two with these on the left side.   



Currently cooking the Baldwin / Raytheon tubes on the right...

[LuisV]

It's a shame, but the Raytheon 6SN7GTB medium bottle with black plates and halo getter have been officially LOST in Transit; I was refunded by the eBay seller.  Not sure if I plan to order another pair; however, if I do, I'll post an update.  For now, it looks like the Baldwin / Raytheon 6SN7GTB will be the last pair that I bake in the right side.  Once they are done cooking, I'll post my opinion.

Next step is to perform a second round of listening tests with the RCA 6C8G on the left and a then a third round with the Psvane UK-6SN7 on the left.  As with all the tubes I've tried thus far, I'll bake each left pair for 50 hours before performing any critical listening.   I have several Tidal playlists, based on my mood, that I use to play music in the background while I work during the day.  I've read that the Psvane tubes take much longer to sound their best, so we'll see.  Call it audiophile voodoo if you wish; however, if it does makes a difference, I figured 50 hours was a nice round number and level playing field for all the tubes. 

[LuisV]

Finally got around to mount three panels to the ceiling; center panel is 4' 10" from the front wall while the other two are 3' 10".   I used the GIK ceiling mounts:

www.gikacoustics.com/product/acoustic-panel-ceiling-cloud-mounting-brackets/

And these toggle bolts:



It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be; from start to finish, it only took a couple of hours and 3 beers.  



Electrician comes next week to install four recessed lights; once complete, I'll take better pictures of the room.  

[LuisV]

The Baldwin / Raytheon 6SN7GTB have over 50hrs of play time... so I grabbed a bottle of wine, a glass and listened for a few hours...

• Still listening to them as I write this... dynamics, details, with plenty of presence... their sound signature puts a smile on my face and I find myself repeating songs within the playlist and looking for others to play.  They remind me of the Sylvania's... Dynamics with a refined and detailed sound signature; however, they don't sound cold nor harsh.  Soundstage and soundscape is on par with the Sylvania's, but they seem to bring vocalists closer to you... maybe it's from the recent addition of the acoustic panels on the ceiling, I'm not 100% sure; either way,  I'll need to do a bake off between the Raytheon, Sylvania and these.  

After a month or so of rolling tubes, I find myself with a 3 way tie... a bake off between these 3 is warranted; however, the RCA 6C8G are going into the left side as they are peaking my interest.  Zero complaints thus far... loads of fun... can't wait to listen to these tubes with the RCAs and Psvane tubes on the left.  Plan is to bake the RCAs on the left with a pair of Tung-Sols on the right and then swap in the Psvanes on the left before I do any extended listening sessions. 

So there you have it... in order of preference... more to come...

1. RAYTHEON 6SN7GTB short bottle, Sylvania 6SN7GTA with 3 hole black plates and Baldwin / Raytheon 6SN7GTB
2. CBS 6SN7GTB
3. GE 6SN7GTA
4. RCA 6SN7GTB
5. Tung-Sols
6. Electro-Harmonix