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Post by chops on Jan 17, 2021 6:49:08 GMT -5
Well after our talk here, I went searching for some tubes, and ended up going a totally different route. Instead of more 6SN7's, I ordered some gold tube adapters to go from a 6SN7 to a 12AU7. The tubes are a pair of Raytheon/Baldwin long black plate 12AU7's, matched of course. You're heading down a whole different rabbit hole... lol  Yeah, kind of. LOL Though this rabbit hole seems to have a little cheaper entry fee. It cost me just under $50 total for those tubes and adapters. |
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Post by chops on Jan 17, 2021 8:22:32 GMT -5
And falling a little further down this new rabbit hole... Just ordered a pair of gold 6CG7 to 6SN7 tube adapters and a pair of NOS matched GE 6FQ7 tubes with bridge filaments.   |
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Post by LuisV on Jan 17, 2021 9:00:47 GMT -5
And falling a little further down this new rabbit hole... Just ordered a pair of gold 6CG7 to 6SN7 tube adapters and a pair of NOS matched GE 6FQ7 tubes with bridge filaments. Interesting... didn't realize there were so many potential options. Curious to hear about your listening experience; please let us know. |
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Post by chops on Jan 17, 2021 9:07:18 GMT -5
And falling a little further down this new rabbit hole... Just ordered a pair of gold 6CG7 to 6SN7 tube adapters and a pair of NOS matched GE 6FQ7 tubes with bridge filaments. Interesting... didn't realize there were so many potential options. Curious to hear about your listening experience; please let us know. With the right tube adapters, there's quite a variety you can run in the Freya+. You just need to do a bit of research on the net and find those really long threads on other forums about tube rolling with the Freya(+). I'll definitely post a couple things about sound, but it'll probably take a couple/few weeks before getting those adapters in as they only seem to come from China. But since I already have a pair of adapters for those 6C8G tubes, I know they are very well made adapters, so well worth the wait. |
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Post by chops on Jan 17, 2021 10:27:57 GMT -5
Okay, this is for a while. Yet another pair of tubes and tube adapters ordered. NOS GE's again, only this time slightly older 6CG7's that have a physical shield plate in the middle, not just merely a bridge wire across the top of the tube like the newer 6FQ7's. Theoretically, this physical shield should provide an even greater noise floor as well as better isolation from the two sides of the tube.  |
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Post by chops on Jan 17, 2021 10:57:39 GMT -5
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Post by LuisV on Jan 17, 2021 16:19:43 GMT -5
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Post by LuisV on Jan 19, 2021 13:56:58 GMT -5
After being lost for over a month, these tubes arrived on January 14th, so I quickly rotated them in. After extended play time over this past 3 day weekend, it's time to post my minireview of the Raytheon 6SN7GTB medium bottle with halo getter and parallel black plates... - Yes, yes and.... yes! Seems like I'm on repeat... another great tube... they have very good dynamics, provide oodles of detail without glare and they have plenty of presence around instruments. These are similar to the Baldwins as vocals are more intimate... seems like the singer is singing to you and standing in front of you, as in a small venue, instead of at you from behind the mic in a recording studio. Kinda difficult to describe, so hopefully that makes sense... as with the Baldwins, this might be from the recent addition of the cloud... either way... I really like the sound I'm hearing. Details without sounding bright or edgy nor overly "tubey" or mellow. I was able to confirm this by switching to the passive and differential buffer stages of the Freya... switching between those stages reduced the height of the soundstage and I lost the "color" and presence that the tube stage provides. Needless to say, I hear a difference and I prefer the tube stage hands down without question. The other stages had more resolution... sure... but at a price of sounding harsh to my ears. Am I losing that last ounce of detail or resolution with the tube stage, yes, but I can listen all day and not become fatigued. This is another tube that allows me to enjoy the music and lose track of time... I got lost in the music for hours on Monday night and the knock on the door from my wife at 1am proved it. Haha.
Crap... a 4 way tie... a bake off is needed for sure. So here's the new plan... no more tube purchases... I've logged out of eBay and will do my best to restrain the urge of searching for JAN or other more expensive 6SN7 variants.  Besides the Raytheon with side getter / "short" bottle, it seems like the rest in the top spot have a commonality... halo getter, medium bottle with black plates. Holes or no holes in the plates, without a bake off, I can't honestly say which one I prefer, but I look forward to more listening and getting lost in the music... It's time to put the RCA 6C8G on the left, a pair of Electro-Harmonix on the right and let the system play background music for few days... then I'll start round two. I'll take notes, will share what I hear and try to pick a preference between the top four....  - RAYTHEON 6SN7GTB short bottle, Sylvania 6SN7GTA with 3 hole black plates, Baldwin / Raytheon 6SN7GTB and Raytheon 6SN7GTB medium bottle
- CBS 6SN7GTB
- GE 6SN7GTA
- RCA 6SN7GTB
- Tung-Sols
- Electro-Harmonix
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Post by LuisV on Jan 19, 2021 14:03:59 GMT -5
Now that I'm complete with round 1 of the tube auditions, I thought it was a good time to to swap digital cables... I went from an old noname cable to a Mogami 2964 75 ohm digital cable with Amphenol connectors. This cable connects my Node 2i and Schiit Modi Multi-Bit DAC. There was nothing wrong with the other digital cable I was using, I simply wanted a shorter cable with similar color / connections to round out the system. If Mogami and Canare cables are good enough for recording studios, they are more than good enough for me.   Next step is to perform cable management. Although I don't have a ton of cables, my OCD kicks in when I swap tubes as I can see a small rats nest behind the rack. |
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Post by chops on Jan 19, 2021 18:50:36 GMT -5
It's time to put the RCA 6C8G on the left....
Really looking forward to your impressions of the 6C8G's with the Baldwin/Raytheon's as that still remains my "reference" combo. With the Freya+ preamp and a set of good tubes, it's very easy to lose track of time while getting immersed in great sounds. |
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Post by LuisV on Jan 21, 2021 11:33:32 GMT -5
Figured best to group all of the 1st round mini-reviews into one post... Tung-Sol 6SN7GTB - Stock tubes
- Dynamic, punchy with less of that "tube" sound, if that makes sense. I've seen / heard Youtubers call the sound signature of the Tung-Sols as the "new" tube sound, not warm; however, certainly not clinical nor cold sounding. They provide just enough "color", yet are different when comparing the sound to older tubes. They provide a wide soundstage, yet it is not as deep as some of the other tubes I have on hand. All in all a great sounding tube, nothing particularly "magical", just a nice sounding tube that is readily available at a decent price point.
Electro-Harmonix 6SN7 - Matched Quad Set - Tube Depot - $23.95 / each
- I enjoyed their 6922 in my Schiit Vali headphone amp, so these were the 1st tubes that I purchased for the Freya. They are extremely similar to the Tung-Sols; however, have less width to the sounds stage as they sounded ever so slightly "boxed in" in comparison. Don't get me wrong, the soundstage didn't suck; the presentation from the Tung-Sols was simply wider. If I didn't have the Tung-Sols to compare them to, these would be perfect as far as an inexpensive set of readily available tubes.
GE 6SN7GTA with copper grid posts, "D" getter; 1950s - Tube Depot - $159 / matched pair
- Slightly less bass than the Tung-Sols; however, they are much warmer, so I'm starting to hear the "color" that I prefer. Call it distortion if preferred, but I'm starting to hear the "magic" of tubes and those sonic qualities weren't present with the Tung-Sols. The GEs have the same dynamics, impact, and wide soundstage of the Tung-Sols, so I decided to keep them on the left side, while testing the other "NOS" tubes I have. No particular sound quality reason for that decision, I felt, since they were also "NOS" tubes that they should pair better with the rest of the tubes I had purchased.
RAYTHEON 6SN7GTB short bottle with side "D" getter and black plates - eBay - $38.93 / matched pair
- After letting them cook for a few days, I finally heard the "magic" I was looking for. They have a wider, deeper and taller soundstage. Smooth vocals, fantastic guitar... simply a better sounding tube. There is more presence to the music... just all around better. I regards to soundstage depth, it sounded as though aspects of the soundscape came from behind the speakers.... as in, a few feet behind the speakers... they simply disappeared... they added more dimension to the sound than what I previously heard with the other tubes.
RCA 6SN7GTB with bottom getter and black plates; one dated May 1961, the other Nov 1963 - eBay - $47.93 / matched pair
- Nice sounding tubes, but a step down from the Raytheon; these are more like the GEs. They still put a smile to my face, but the Raytheon's are superior. I'll need to do a longer A/B test, but after an quick comparison, I prefer the GEs over the RCAs.
CBS 6SN7GTB with 2-Hole black plates and bottom "D" getter; 1956 Week 22 - eBay - $59.33 / matched pair
- Initially reminded me of the Raytheon's, but after a quick A/B, they sounded more like the GE and RCAs; however, with deeper bass. Much warmer than the Tung-Sols and Electro-Harmonix, but not as "magical" as the Raytheon's. I prefer these over the GEs and RCAs due to the bass impact... it's not bloated, simply deeper with faster / tighter definition. I'll probably keep these on the left side once I finish testing all the tubes I have.
Sylvania 6SN7GTA with 3 hole black plates; 1954 Week 13 - eBay - $89.93 / matched pair
- Hot damn... where do I begin? Dynamics with a more refined and detailed sound signature, yet not sounding dry, edgy nor clinical... instrument placement, soundstage and soundscape is on par with the Raytheon 6SN7GTB short bottle. Bass is on par with the Tung-Sols... you can hear that distinct sound that a drum mallet makes the moment it strikes the drum... decay of cymbals sound.. well... correct and natural. I'll need to do a bake off between these and the Raytheon's, but these are very nice sounding tubes. I hear hints to the spatial depth that the Raytheon's provide, butt they are not as "holographic", so I'm going to let these play for a few more days as they are extremely enjoyable. I find myself wanting to listen to songs outside of the playlist I created for these listening sessions...
The Baldwin / Raytheon 6SN7GTB - eBay - $62 / matched pair
- Still listening to them as I write this... dynamics, details, with plenty of presence... their sound signature puts a smile on my face and I find myself repeating songs within the playlist and looking for others to play. They remind me of the Sylvania's... Dynamics with a refined and detailed sound signature; however, they don't sound cold nor harsh. Soundstage and soundscape is on par with the Sylvania's, but they seem to bring vocalists closer to you... maybe it's from the recent addition of the acoustic panels on the ceiling, I'm not 100% sure; either way, I'll need to do a bake off between the Raytheon, Sylvania and these.
Raytheon 6SN7GTB medium bottle with halo getter and parallel black plates - eBay - $57.53 / matched pair- Yes, yes and.... yes! Seems like I'm on repeat... another great tube... they have very good dynamics, provide oodles of detail without glare and they have plenty of presence around instruments. These are similar to the Baldwins as vocals are more intimate... seems like the singer is singing to you and standing in front of you, as in a small venue, instead of at you from behind the mic in a recording studio. Kinda difficult to describe, so hopefully that makes sense... as with the Baldwins, this might be from the recent addition of the cloud... either way... I really like the sound I'm hearing. Details without sounding bright or edgy nor overly "tubey" or mellow. I was able to confirm this by switching to the passive and differential buffer stages of the Freya... switching between those stages reduced the height of the soundstage and I lost the "color" and presence that the tube stage provides. Needless to say, I hear a difference and I prefer the tube stage hands down without question. The other stages had more resolution... sure... but at a price of sounding harsh to my ears. Am I losing that last ounce of detail or resolution with the tube stage, yes, but I can listen all day and not become fatigued. This is another tube that allows me to enjoy the music and lose track of time... I got lost in the music for hours on Monday night and the knock on the door from my wife at 1am proved it. Haha.
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Post by LuisV on Jan 21, 2021 11:43:43 GMT -5
The RCA 6C8G's and Electro-Harmonix tubes have been playing background music for 2 straight days now.... so... the RCAs have be BAKED!! Round 2 will start later tonight..  - Raytheon 6SN7GTB short bottle
- Sylvania 6SN7GTA with 3 hole black plates
- Baldwin / Raytheon 6SN7GTB
- Raytheon 6SN7GTB medium bottle
Plan is to listen to 5 songs from my playlist, turn off the system, write down some notes and allow a total of 5 mins for the tubes to cool down before I swap and listen to the next one. Once I have listened to all 4, based on notes, I'll do additional listening and will try to narrow it down. My thinking is that between tonight and tomorrow night, I should be finished... if not, I'll try to wind things up by the weekend. |
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Post by LuisV on Jan 21, 2021 13:49:31 GMT -5
Started gettings things setup for tonight's listening sessions, so I swapped out the Electro-Harmonix for the Baldwin short tubes and after a quick power up to make sure everything is ready... a weird noise came through the speakers once the tubes heated up. One of the RCAs went bad... perfect freakin timing.  The top of one of the tubes fails to light / glow, so it crapped out... yup that's a technical term. Left pic shows the bad one in the back isn't glowing towards the top, the right pic shows both glowing. I reached out to the seller; waiting to see what the future holds for these RCAs... my freakin luck.   After a few mins of relaxing and saying various curse words in Spanish... I swapped out the RCAs for the GEs as the show must go on. Plan is to use the GEs on the left side as originally tested in round 1. |
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Post by LuisV on Jan 26, 2021 10:57:17 GMT -5
The final four have been narrowed down to two contenders for the top spot; however, trying to figure out which one I like best has been difficult... slight differences between them... In the meantime, I found a great use case for the good RCA 6F8G...   |
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Post by LuisV on Jan 27, 2021 23:03:08 GMT -5
Ok... I've narrowed the playing field down to two... after listening and listening... then adding more songs and listening even more... here are the results... The Sylvania 6SN7GTA with 3 hole black plates and Baldwin / Raytheon 6SN7GTB are, hands down, the cream of the crop of the tubes I have on hand. THe other two are still nice sounding tubes, but in this bake off, they are out classed. Below are some of my notes from the listening tests: Raytheon Short Bottle with Side D Getter:- Soundstage height and width is smaller
- Not as reverberant, musical presence doesn’t envelop you; not as immersive
- Female vocals a little harsh... edgy?
- Highs seem rolled off; loss of a little detail... more laid back. Warmer sounding.
- The other three tubes are better... great tube, but out classed by the others.
Raytheon Medium Bottle with Halo Getter
- Deeper bass, faster more detailed / articulate compared to its shorter brother
- Soundstage height and width is wider, better air between instruments... more, hate to use the term, musical... more natural sounding than the Ray short bottle
- Good balance between details and rolloff; doesn't sound laid back, but takes enough of the sharpness away
- Reverb and Presence is back... diggin the organ notes... pressurizes the room nicely.
- Vocals sound more natural... better than the Ray short bottle.
Sylvania 6SN7GTA with 3 hole black plates- Reverb and presence equal to Raytheon Medium Bottle with Halo Getter... seems deeper in presentation.
- Width is on par with the Ray Medium Bottle, but it appears deeper... taller for sure... more presence? Instrument placement has superior definition.
- Hear more details... is this what folks refer to as micro dynamics? Not hearing things that weren't previously present / heard, they just sound more pronounced.... easier to pick up and distinguish.
- More intimate vocals... damn... sounds like they are in the room.
- Finger tapping on guitars sound more nature... sharper... detailed...
- Decay from cymbals are well defined... crisp and then fade away...
- Deep quick bass... very musical...
Raytheon / Baldwin 6SN7GTB- Sound stage... not as tall as the Sylvania, but it seems close... splitting hairs here. Different... but just a little less.
- Slightly less bass than Sylvania... maybe? Need more listening to confirm.
- Crazy details but not harsh at all... I think the upper frequency is the best of the bunch.
- I get drawn into the music... perhaps more enjoyment than the others? I want to keep listening and listening. Need to do a bake off between the Sylvanias and these.
- Guitars... finger taps and slaps on par with the Sylvania... possibly better?
- Organ notes have more authority than the Ray medium bottle, similar to Sylvania's... good reverberations
- Vocals are smooth... warm... too close without more listening, but might be slightly better than the Sylvanias
- Dunno... I can listen to these forever.... pure enjoyment...
- Digging the grove from Jaz and instrumentals... truly enjoyable
Based on the final 4 bake off, below is the updated ranking... time to bake off the Raytheon / Baldwin's against the Sylvania's... - TBD
- TBD
- Raytheon 6SN7GTB medium bottle
- RAYTHEON 6SN7GTB short bottle
- CBS 6SN7GTB
- GE 6SN7GTA
- RCA 6SN7GTB
- Tung-Sols
- Electro-Harmonix
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Post by chops on Jan 29, 2021 19:09:24 GMT -5
Got my first set of tube adapters in today, so am running in the Baldwin 12AU7's, which also just came in today.  |
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Post by chops on Jan 30, 2021 9:39:15 GMT -5
Well, first impressions of these Baldwin 12AU7's... They stink! no, literally, they stink!
So I opened up the box they were shipped in, then the bubble wrap that they were in, and that's when I first noticed it. That nasty, old, stale cigarette smoke smell from a heavy smoker. Lightly wiped them down with a very lightly damp towel, installed the tube adapters in the preamp, then installed the tubes. I could smell that nastiness on my hands even after washing them (my hands that is), and had to wash them again.
Everything was fine for about the first hour of running in these tubes, then it started... We kept getting that nasty cigarette smoke smell in the room, and it was coming from the tubes since they were now fully hot. They kept emitting that raunchy smell for the next 4 or 5 hours unit it was finally all burnt off. Freaking disgusting.
As for the sound? So far, so good! They have really tight, punchy bass, deep too. Treble is airy and smooth. The midrange has that nice, full, tubey sound without being unnatural or bloated. We just watched TV last night, so I've only really "listened" to these tubes this morning some at low volumes, and that's what I've come away with so far.
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Post by chops on Jan 30, 2021 13:47:03 GMT -5
The other two pairs of tube adapters just showed up, so...   |
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Post by LuisV on Jan 31, 2021 9:13:32 GMT -5
Well, first impressions of these Baldwin 12AU7's... They stink! no, literally, they stink! So I opened up the box they were shipped in, then the bubble wrap that they were in, and that's when I first noticed it. That nasty, old, stale cigarette smoke smell from a heavy smoker. Lightly wiped them down with a very lightly damp towel, installed the tube adapters in the preamp, then installed the tubes. I could smell that nastiness on my hands even after washing them (my hands that is), and had to wash them again. Everything was fine for about the first hour of running in these tubes, then it started... We kept getting that nasty cigarette smoke smell in the room, and it was coming from the tubes since they were now fully hot. They kept emitting that raunchy smell for the next 4 or 5 hours unit it was finally all burnt off. Freaking disgusting. As for the sound? So far, so good! They have really tight, punchy bass, deep too. Treble is airy and smooth. The midrange has that nice, full, tubey sound without being unnatural or bloated. We just watched TV last night, so I've only really "listened" to these tubes this morning some at low volumes, and that's what I've come away with so far. Ha... I hate that nastiness as well, but glad it eventually burned off. How do you compare these to your Raytheon / Baldwin 6SN7s? |
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 31, 2021 10:14:47 GMT -5
Interesting how the tube part numbers have remained largely unchanged over the years.....
I have something not mentioned here that I used to transport my tubes for periodic testing.
It was called a shoebox loaded with cloth and paper. Ya see I’ve been at this for so long that I wasn’t old enough to drive a car when I had my first amplifiers.
So now, (with my trusty shoe box in tow), I could place it in my paper route carrier basket and ride to one of the two nearest places where they had one of those tube testing monsters.
Those were the days.
Bill
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