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Post by foggy1956 on Mar 12, 2021 13:31:26 GMT -5
Hooked the modi multibit up to my XMC-2 in refernce stereo. In my system I prefer the XMC-2 with Dirac engaged over the Modi in reference stereo.
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Post by LuisV on Mar 12, 2021 13:34:15 GMT -5
Hooked the modi multibit up to my XMC-2 in refernce stereo. In my system I prefer the XMC-2 with Dirac engaged over the Modi in reference stereo. Curious of a few things... did you test the XMC-2 without Dirac in reference stereo vs the Modi MB in reference stereo? Simply asking as Dirac might be improving room issues and therefore the sound difference. |
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Post by foggy1956 on Mar 12, 2021 13:47:10 GMT -5
Hooked the modi multibit up to my XMC-2 in refernce stereo. In my system I prefer the XMC-2 with Dirac engaged over the Modi in reference stereo. Curious of a few things... did you test the XMC-2 without Dirac in reference stereo vs the Modi MB in reference stereo? Simply asking as Dirac might be improving room issues and therefore the sound difference. Agreed, and yes I did. In reference stereo I could not detect a noticeable difference. As I have mentioned before, The XMC-2 implementation of Dirac is the first time that I have preferred it over reference stereo. |
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Post by LuisV on Mar 12, 2021 14:16:55 GMT -5
Ah... so in reference stereo without Dirac, no perceived difference between the XMC-2 and Modi. Very cool comparison and thanks for sharing!
In my previous HT setup with my B&W 804 speakers, XMC-1, and Emotiva amps, I had preferred reference stereo over Dirac for 2 channel audio. I felt that Dirac compromised soundstage dimensionality; I lost depth and separation between instruments... it was more two dimensional... flatter, as the sound seemed to come from the front of the speakers forward and between them in a straight line. Not worse sound quality, just a different presentation.
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Post by foggy1956 on Mar 12, 2021 14:27:44 GMT -5
Ah... so in reference stereo without Dirac, no perceived difference between the XMC-2 and Modi. Very cool comparison and thanks for sharing! In my previous HT setup with my B&W 804 speakers, XMC-1, and Emotiva amps, I had preferred reference stereo over Dirac for 2 channel audio. I felt that Dirac compromised soundstage dimensionality; I lost depth and separation between instruments... it was more two dimensional... flatter, as the sound seemed to come from the front of the speakers forward and between them in a straight line. Not worse sound quality, just a different presentation. In my current system Dirac provides a wider soundstage, playing outside the towers, as well as instruments and vocals being more focused within the soundstage. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 14:34:40 GMT -5
I've gone from 3.2 channel to 2.2 channel. Was looking at some pisca Schiit gear but grew impatient w/ stock. No other reason than that initiated more gear into consideration which led me to Audio Science Review of the Topping D90: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d90-balanced-usb-dac-review.10519/Just purchased the D90 rather than the Bitfrost. Hope I won't regret this purchase as until today I hadn't heard of Topping. I picked up on Topping after reading a review where the Minidsp 2x4hd was compared and basically tossed out in favor of the Topping DAC which is the reference used for Audio Science Review. The final deciding factor was ASR's review of the Schiit Bitfrost which was the merchandise I was looking at. I'm looking to implement this dac into a 2.2 channel system. The dac like the Bitfrost 2 allows both balanced and unbalanced outputs so I may run my stereo amp w/ balanced and use unbalanced to my active subs. The Topping has output of 2v unbalanced and 4v balanced. That's a welcome after using the Node 2i! Next on the audio gear list is a tube preamp. I have the Schiit Freya + on my radar at this time - the only negative information is that Freya+ is more neutral than warm concerning tube preamps. I really wish to try the warmth of tubes before popping for tube amps. That is, whether this is or is not desirable. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 14:45:50 GMT -5
Ah... so in reference stereo without Dirac, no perceived difference between the XMC-2 and Modi. Very cool comparison and thanks for sharing! In my previous HT setup with my B&W 804 speakers, XMC-1, and Emotiva amps, I had preferred reference stereo over Dirac for 2 channel audio. I felt that Dirac compromised soundstage dimensionality; I lost depth and separation between instruments... it was more two dimensional... flatter, as the sound seemed to come from the front of the speakers forward and between them in a straight line. Not worse sound quality, just a different presentation. In my current system Dirac provides a wider soundstage, playing outside the towers, as well as instruments and vocals being more focused within the soundstage. Sounds like the benefit is from room correction. I think LuisV was trying to isolate Emotiva's Dac for Schiit's Dac comparison. Having Dirac engaged doesn't leave a fair comparison Dac for Dac. I'm still uncertain whether utilizing a different curve to flatten a speaker's in room response is best. I mean Tektons excel in some areas so it's like lowering excellent to good across the frequency range. My Ulfs in particular really shine in the mid bass area. At the moment I'm without room correction. Though I'm using Node 2i's Dac at the moment. Coming from an Onkyo Preamp / Minidsp DDRC 88A with bass management / Dirac live 3 room correction to simply a Bluesound Node 2i - I desribe the change of fidelity as leaning towards a tint of harshness. Not sure I'm ever going back to room correction rather than focus on room treatment. My only experience w/ tubes is through guitar amps. I prefer the sound of tubes when playing such instrument to solid state. For that reason I'm in experimental mode wishing to introduce tubes into my system. I mean I seldom get the house to myself to explore above 75 watts per channel or more. |
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Post by Zombie on Mar 12, 2021 15:20:47 GMT -5
I've gone from 3.2 channel to 2.2 channel. Was looking at some pisca Schiit gear but grew impatient w/ stock. No other reason than that initiated more gear into consideration which led me to Audio Science Review of the Topping D90: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d90-balanced-usb-dac-review.10519/Just purchased the D90 rather than the Bitfrost. Hope I won't regret this purchase as until today I hadn't heard of Topping. I picked up on Topping after reading a review where the Minidsp 2x4hd was compared and basically tossed out in favor of the Topping DAC which is the reference used for Audio Science Review. The final deciding factor was ASR's review of the Schiit Bitfrost which was the merchandise I was looking at. I'm looking to implement this dac into a 2.2 channel system. The dac like the Bitfrost 2 allows both balanced and unbalanced outputs so I may run my stereo amp w/ balanced and use unbalanced to my active subs. The Topping has output of 2v unbalanced and 4v balanced. That's a welcome after using the Node 2i! Next on the audio gear list is a tube preamp. I have the Schiit Freya + on my radar at this time - the only negative information is that Freya+ is more neutral than warm concerning tube preamps. I really wish to try the warmth of tubes before popping for tube amps. That is, whether this is or is not desirable. Topping supposedly makes excellent DACs. I’ve never heard one personally but have read lots of reviews about them. I almost bought the D90 but the MQA version wasn’t available through Apos. I’ll be curious to hear how you like it. I still might buy one in the future if the version I want becomes available. |
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Post by LuisV on Mar 12, 2021 15:35:28 GMT -5
Take this review for what it is... an opinion of the reviewer... but... it helped me narrow down my choices. Denafrips Ares II and Schiit Bifrost. Gumby in my opinion is due for an update.
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Post by LuisV on Mar 12, 2021 15:56:17 GMT -5
In my current system Dirac provides a wider soundstage, playing outside the towers, as well as instruments and vocals being more focused within the soundstage. Sounds like the benefit is from room correction. I think LuisV was trying to isolate Emotiva's Dac for Schiit's Dac comparison. Having Dirac engaged doesn't leave a fair comparison Dac for Dac. I'm still uncertain whether utilizing a different curve to flatten a speaker's in room response is best. I mean Tektons excel in some areas so it's like lowering excellent to good across the frequency range. My Ulfs in particular really shine in the mid bass area. At the moment I'm without room correction. Though I'm using Node 2i's Dac at the moment. Coming from an Onkyo Preamp / Minidsp DDRC 88A with bass management / Dirac live 3 room correction to simply a Bluesound Node 2i - I desribe the change of fidelity as leaning towards a tint of harshness. Not sure I'm ever going back to room correction rather than focus on room treatment. My only experience w/ tubes is through guitar amps. I prefer the sound of tubes when playing such instrument to solid state. For that reason I'm in experimental mode wishing to introduce tubes into my system. I mean I seldom get the house to myself to explore above 75 watts per channel or more. Correct... was trying to narrow it down to a DAC to DAC comparison and he found no difference between the XMC-2 and $250 Modi Multibit. Very cool to say the least! But yes... room treatment is by far the best sonic improvement one can do. GiK, ATS or DIY... hands down... best return on investment. Tubes... yes, the Freya has been coined to have the new tube sound... less fat and lush; however, you can gain a bit more warmth with tube rolling. That being said... if you're after that ultra warm romantic type of sound, um distortion, the Freya might not be the ticket... Black Ice, Primaluna amongst other brands might be the better way to go. Same with a DAC... Denafrips or a DAC with a tube might better represent the sound you crave. Either way... enjoy the ride... |
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Post by selind40 on Mar 12, 2021 16:05:54 GMT -5
I've gone from 3.2 channel to 2.2 channel. Was looking at some pisca Schiit gear but grew impatient w/ stock. No other reason than that initiated more gear into consideration which led me to Audio Science Review of the Topping D90: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d90-balanced-usb-dac-review.10519/Just purchased the D90 rather than the Bitfrost. Hope I won't regret this purchase as until today I hadn't heard of Topping. I picked up on Topping after reading a review where the Minidsp 2x4hd was compared and basically tossed out in favor of the Topping DAC which is the reference used for Audio Science Review. The final deciding factor was ASR's review of the Schiit Bitfrost which was the merchandise I was looking at. I'm looking to implement this dac into a 2.2 channel system. The dac like the Bitfrost 2 allows both balanced and unbalanced outputs so I may run my stereo amp w/ balanced and use unbalanced to my active subs. The Topping has output of 2v unbalanced and 4v balanced. That's a welcome after using the Node 2i! Next on the audio gear list is a tube preamp. I have the Schiit Freya + on my radar at this time - the only negative information is that Freya+ is more neutral than warm concerning tube preamps. I really wish to try the warmth of tubes before popping for tube amps. That is, whether this is or is not desirable. Sooooo.....you are thinking about a Freya+.....I just might know a guy that has one sitting on his kitchen table and put his XSP-1 back into the system......just sayin'. This same dude, really want's to try a Parasound Halo P6 preamp but can't seem to find one at around the same price he bought the Freya+ for.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 16:12:17 GMT -5
I've gone from 3.2 channel to 2.2 channel. Was looking at some pisca Schiit gear but grew impatient w/ stock. No other reason than that initiated more gear into consideration which led me to Audio Science Review of the Topping D90: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d90-balanced-usb-dac-review.10519/Just purchased the D90 rather than the Bitfrost. Hope I won't regret this purchase as until today I hadn't heard of Topping. I picked up on Topping after reading a review where the Minidsp 2x4hd was compared and basically tossed out in favor of the Topping DAC which is the reference used for Audio Science Review. The final deciding factor was ASR's review of the Schiit Bitfrost which was the merchandise I was looking at. I'm looking to implement this dac into a 2.2 channel system. The dac like the Bitfrost 2 allows both balanced and unbalanced outputs so I may run my stereo amp w/ balanced and use unbalanced to my active subs. The Topping has output of 2v unbalanced and 4v balanced. That's a welcome after using the Node 2i! Next on the audio gear list is a tube preamp. I have the Schiit Freya + on my radar at this time - the only negative information is that Freya+ is more neutral than warm concerning tube preamps. I really wish to try the warmth of tubes before popping for tube amps. That is, whether this is or is not desirable. Sooooo.....you are thinking about a Freya+.....I just might know a guy that has one sitting on his kitchen table and put his XSP-1 back into the system......just sayin'. This same dude, really want's to try a Parasound Halo P6 preamp but can't seem to find one at around the same price he bought the Freya+ for. That dude better keep looking lol. The Parasound P6 is round a grand and half and the Freya plus well under a grand. In all seriousness bro I don't have a Parasound p6 but was seriously comparing it to a Freya +. Apples and oranges from what I gleen, that is solid state to tube. If you decide to sell the Freya plus though in the future please let me know and hopefully some time to acquire funding - just purchased the Topping! At the moment my upstream components are a Bluesound Node 2i and yet to integrate Topping D90 to a Parasound Halo A31. I have one extra channel in the Halo A31 than I'm using but I can't off that  |
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Post by selind40 on Mar 12, 2021 16:23:11 GMT -5
Sooooo.....you are thinking about a Freya+.....I just might know a guy that has one sitting on his kitchen table and put his XSP-1 back into the system......just sayin'. This same dude, really want's to try a Parasound Halo P6 preamp but can't seem to find one at around the same price he bought the Freya+ for. That dude better keep looking lol. The Parasound P6 is round a grand and half and the Freya plus well under a grand. In all seriousness bro I don't have a Parasound p6 but was seriously comparing it to a Freya +. Apples and oranges from what I gleen, that is solid state to tube. If you decide to sell the Freya plus though in the future please let me know and hopefully some time to acquire funding - just purchased the Topping! At the moment my upstream components are a Bluesound Node 2i and yet to integrate Topping D90 to a Parasound Halo A31. I have one extra channel in the Halo A31 than I'm using but I can't off that If there's a way to figure out shipping, I'm not against letting you experiment / audition it and see if you like it in your system. I'm not advertising it for sale....but it is just sitting around. I had a chance at a P6 for a grand on US Audio Mart......but was slow to the enter button. |
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Post by Zombie on Mar 12, 2021 16:45:26 GMT -5
That dude better keep looking lol. The Parasound P6 is round a grand and half and the Freya plus well under a grand. In all seriousness bro I don't have a Parasound p6 but was seriously comparing it to a Freya +. Apples and oranges from what I gleen, that is solid state to tube. If you decide to sell the Freya plus though in the future please let me know and hopefully some time to acquire funding - just purchased the Topping! At the moment my upstream components are a Bluesound Node 2i and yet to integrate Topping D90 to a Parasound Halo A31. I have one extra channel in the Halo A31 than I'm using but I can't off that If there's a way to figure out shipping, I'm not against letting you experiment / audition it and see if you like it in your system. I'm not advertising it for sale....but it is just sitting around. I had a chance at a P6 for a grand on US Audio Mart......but was slow to the enter button. A grand for the P6 is a smoking deal if the condition is good. I’m getting ready to sell my silver version but I won’t sell if for anywhere near that price. Mine is practically brand new. Bought it in October for about $1,700 shipped. My first Parasound purchase and it’s impressive but overkill for my original plans. My next door neighbor has a pristine black one he wanted to sell but I think he wanted around $1,200 or $1,300. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 20:45:53 GMT -5
I've gone from 3.2 channel to 2.2 channel. Was looking at some pisca Schiit gear but grew impatient w/ stock. No other reason than that initiated more gear into consideration which led me to Audio Science Review of the Topping D90: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d90-balanced-usb-dac-review.10519/Just purchased the D90 rather than the Bitfrost. Hope I won't regret this purchase as until today I hadn't heard of Topping. I picked up on Topping after reading a review where the Minidsp 2x4hd was compared and basically tossed out in favor of the Topping DAC which is the reference used for Audio Science Review. The final deciding factor was ASR's review of the Schiit Bitfrost which was the merchandise I was looking at. I'm looking to implement this dac into a 2.2 channel system. The dac like the Bitfrost 2 allows both balanced and unbalanced outputs so I may run my stereo amp w/ balanced and use unbalanced to my active subs. The Topping has output of 2v unbalanced and 4v balanced. That's a welcome after using the Node 2i! Next on the audio gear list is a tube preamp. I have the Schiit Freya + on my radar at this time - the only negative information is that Freya+ is more neutral than warm concerning tube preamps. I really wish to try the warmth of tubes before popping for tube amps. That is, whether this is or is not desirable. Topping supposedly makes excellent DACs. I’ve never heard one personally but have read lots of reviews about them. I almost bought the D90 but the MQA version wasn’t available through Apos. I’ll be curious to hear how you like it. I still might buy one in the future if the version I want becomes available. Looks like I'm getting the non MQA version. Shouldn't matter to me as I no longer use Tidal and stream only from Qobuz. Besides, looks like the Node 2i doesn't have an USB output or at least one that bypasses the internal dac? From what I understand the Topping D90 MQA version needs to utilize the USB output from a streaming device? From the Apos blog: "TOPPING chose to utilize a more powerful XMOS USB interface to aide in the added MQA support, which is available only through USB input." apos.audio/blogs/news/topping-d90-mqa-dac-review-all-around-excellence |
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Post by Zombie on Mar 12, 2021 23:07:34 GMT -5
Topping supposedly makes excellent DACs. I’ve never heard one personally but have read lots of reviews about them. I almost bought the D90 but the MQA version wasn’t available through Apos. I’ll be curious to hear how you like it. I still might buy one in the future if the version I want becomes available. Looks like I'm getting the non MQA version. Shouldn't matter to me as I no longer use Tidal and stream only from Qobuz. Besides, looks like the Node 2i doesn't have an USB output or at least one that bypasses the internal dac? From what I understand the Topping D90 MQA version needs to utilize the USB output from a streaming device? From the Apos blog: "TOPPING chose to utilize a more powerful XMOS USB interface to aide in the added MQA support, which is available only through USB input." apos.audio/blogs/news/topping-d90-mqa-dac-review-all-around-excellenceYep. I played some MQA tracks through Tidal using my MacBook Pro into the USB input of the Project S2 DAC. While there’s limited MQA tracks available in Tidal I found some sounded excellent while some sounded a bit “sterile.” Most of the time I listen to the Node 2i with the S2 at sampling rates of either 44.1 or 96 and both sound great to me. I just enjoy to sometimes listen to various music (mostly classic rock) at different rates and compare. I bet that Topping whether MQA or not will sound fantastic. |
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Post by chops on Mar 13, 2021 7:24:11 GMT -5
Guys... just to be clear here...
Schiit has upgraded their USB input circuitry several times over the years... and this is the latest version...
And, from their description, it does indeed sound well thought out.
But it is still the standard USB Audio Class 2 format. (If it was a new format then it would require special drivers...)
Quoting the Schiit Audio website:
"our Unison USB input is 100% UAC2 compliant (that is, USB Audio Class 2, the accepted standard for USB audio transmission.)"
I should also point out that their change of opinion about the sound quality of USB is interesting but not Earth-shattering. USB has always worked just fine as an audio interface - and been comparable to Coax - with each having pros and cons. The current USB asynchronous data transmission protocol is superior to the original isochronous type... (Which is why most modern DACs support it.)
However both USB and Coax inputs vary between individual products so not all versions of either work equally well... HOWEVER, contrary to what some audiophiles have continued to believe over the years, there is nothing inherently inferior about USB.
(Although, from an engineering perspective, Coax tends to depend more heavily on the quality of the source signal than asynch USB.)
Proper implementations of either have always been able to deliver excellent sound quality.
(So all that has happened is that the guys at Schiit Audio have now decided that they like USB inputs after all.)
Also, more interestingly, and again to quote the Schiit website: "What formats does Unison USB support? PCM, up to 24/192. That's it."
"No DSD? No."
"No MQA? Hell no."
I must say, moving from the Node 2i via coax to Bifrost 2 to the Raspberry Pi 4 via USB to the Bifrost 2 was a major upgrade in sound. Old news. Already know all of that. |
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Post by chops on Mar 13, 2021 7:28:54 GMT -5
Hooked the modi multibit up to my XMC-2 in refernce stereo. In my system I prefer the XMC-2 with Dirac engaged over the Modi in reference stereo. Slap a Bifrost 2 or higher Schiit DAC, and you might just change your mind. |
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Post by chops on Mar 13, 2021 7:34:17 GMT -5
I've gone from 3.2 channel to 2.2 channel. Was looking at some pisca Schiit gear but grew impatient w/ stock. No other reason than that initiated more gear into consideration which led me to Audio Science Review of the Topping D90: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d90-balanced-usb-dac-review.10519/Just purchased the D90 rather than the Bitfrost. Hope I won't regret this purchase as until today I hadn't heard of Topping. I picked up on Topping after reading a review where the Minidsp 2x4hd was compared and basically tossed out in favor of the Topping DAC which is the reference used for Audio Science Review. The final deciding factor was ASR's review of the Schiit Bitfrost which was the merchandise I was looking at. I'm looking to implement this dac into a 2.2 channel system. The dac like the Bitfrost 2 allows both balanced and unbalanced outputs so I may run my stereo amp w/ balanced and use unbalanced to my active subs. The Topping has output of 2v unbalanced and 4v balanced. That's a welcome after using the Node 2i! Next on the audio gear list is a tube preamp. I have the Schiit Freya + on my radar at this time - the only negative information is that Freya+ is more neutral than warm concerning tube preamps. I really wish to try the warmth of tubes before popping for tube amps. That is, whether this is or is not desirable. Sooooo.....you are thinking about a Freya+.....I just might know a guy that has one sitting on his kitchen table and put his XSP-1 back into the system......just sayin'. This same dude, really want's to try a Parasound Halo P6 preamp but can't seem to find one at around the same price he bought the Freya+ for. Had a P5 a couple years, then sold it and upgraded to a P6. Sold the P6 after a year and went with a PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC. Sold that only after 6 months and went to the Freya+ with many NOS tubes. Had the Freya+ for well over a year now and don't plan on selling it anytime soon. The key to the Freya+ is that you NEED to roll the tubes. The stock tubes just don't cut it, whether it be the Tung Sol's or JJ's. |
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Post by foggy1956 on Mar 13, 2021 8:15:37 GMT -5
Hooked the modi multibit up to my XMC-2 in refernce stereo. In my system I prefer the XMC-2 with Dirac engaged over the Modi in reference stereo. Slap a Bifrost 2 or higher Schiit DAC, and you might just change your mind. That was the thought process when I slipped the Modi in the main system. Trying to determine cost that would provide a better sound than the XMC-2 with Dirac? Thanks for the suggestion.😊 |
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