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Post by Mike Ronesia on May 19, 2010 15:20:33 GMT -5
I am looking for DACs that can decode 5.1 audio (and have 5 analog outputs). So at this juncture count me as a 'No'. But I will keep hoping that Emo will decide to build one:) What would you use such a product with? Since as far as I know almost all multi-channel preamps (processors) include a DAC.... For most people the main use would be music they have either downloaded or CD's they have copied to their computer. In theory it should improve the sound of any 2 channel music you put through it. |
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Post by ajani on May 19, 2010 15:33:42 GMT -5
What would you use such a product with? Since as far as I know almost all multi-channel preamps (processors) include a DAC.... For most people the main use would be music they have either downloaded or CD's they have copied to their computer. In theory it should improve the sound of any 2 channel music you put through it. Huh? I'm asking specifically about the purpose of a MC DAC rather than a 2 channel one... I'm just trying to figure out why someone would want a MC DAC... |
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Post by hobbs on May 19, 2010 16:00:30 GMT -5
The reason I am looking for a MC DAC is due to the fact I deal almost entirely with digital files including movie files that have 5.1 audio (downloaded movies from iTunes store for e.g.). I hardly use any of the usual sources (CD players or video players or turn tables). A barebones MC DAC would help me with decoding digital files and most recent HD TVs can deal with the video part. I would run the analog outs from the DAC to powered LR and surround speakers to create a rudimentary HT system. Some of the high end BD players can do this. The Oppo BDP-83 can accept streamed digital files (music, movies, photos) from a DLNA server via its ethernet port. The Oppo can also decode all types of audio. So I am leaning towards the Oppo player for its DAC function. It would be great if the Oppo player also had inputs for HDMI and digital/optical audio. That would make it perfect for my HT needs.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on May 19, 2010 16:48:59 GMT -5
Huh? I'm asking specifically about the purpose of a MC DAC rather than a 2 channel one... I'm just trying to figure out why someone would want a MC DAC... I suppose if they were trying to drive analog multichannel gear with something that only has an HDMI output? |
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Post by ajani on May 19, 2010 17:11:27 GMT -5
The reason I am looking for a MC DAC is due to the fact I deal almost entirely with digital files including movie files that have 5.1 audio (downloaded movies from iTunes store for e.g.). I hardly use any of the usual sources (CD players or video players or turn tables). A barebones MC DAC would help me with decoding digital files and most recent HD TVs can deal with the video part. I would run the analog outs from the DAC to powered LR and surround speakers to create a rudimentary HT system. Some of the high end BD players can do this. The Oppo BDP-83 can accept streamed digital files (music, movies, photos) from a DLNA server via its ethernet port. The Oppo can also decode all types of audio. So I am leaning towards the Oppo player for its DAC function. It would be great if the Oppo player also had inputs for HDMI and digital/optical audio. That would make it perfect for my HT needs. If you are using powered speakers, then you would need a volume control (even if each speaker has a volume control, as you wouldn't want to have to adjust each one individually)... So a MC DAC + Volume Control is basically a HT Processor (minus the video switching)... So why not just buy a HT Processor? |
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Post by hobbs on May 19, 2010 18:40:56 GMT -5
The reason I am looking for a MC DAC is due to the fact I deal almost entirely with digital files including movie files that have 5.1 audio (downloaded movies from iTunes store for e.g.). I hardly use any of the usual sources (CD players or video players or turn tables). A barebones MC DAC would help me with decoding digital files and most recent HD TVs can deal with the video part. I would run the analog outs from the DAC to powered LR and surround speakers to create a rudimentary HT system. Some of the high end BD players can do this. The Oppo BDP-83 can accept streamed digital files (music, movies, photos) from a DLNA server via its ethernet port. The Oppo can also decode all types of audio. So I am leaning towards the Oppo player for its DAC function. It would be great if the Oppo player also had inputs for HDMI and digital/optical audio. That would make it perfect for my HT needs. If you are using powered speakers, then you would need a volume control (even if each speaker has a volume control, as you wouldn't want to have to adjust each one individually)... So a MC DAC + Volume Control is basically a HT Processor (minus the video switching)... So why not just buy a HT Processor? Good question about volume control. Right now I stream iTunes to Audioengine A5. I can control the volume using my Mac/PowerBook from the couch. The GefenTV 5.1 DAC has a volume control. The Oppo BDP-83 remote also has a volume control (on the remote). So adjusting the volume or spl is not perceived to be a major obstacle. The Oppo BDP can also process video. So all I would need are an Oppo BD player, HD TV and powered speakers to set up an HT. Using wireless adapters (Audioengine AW1) I can stream audio to the surround channels. This would obviate running wires through walls. I can change my configuration or move my HT around at will without the need for rewiring. I will need power for my surround speakers (as well as front LR speakers) and I need to run speaker wire from one surround speaker to another as the amp is present in only one of them. So once I adjust the volume on the front and rear speakers, I will not have to touch them again. So no need for amps or running speaker wires though walls. There is only one volume knob for controlling both speakers of a pair in the case of Audioengine. Thus turning up the volume turns it up for both speakers equally. There is no 'balance' knob and the two speakers are voiced and matched well. It may be easier to do speaker set up in this case! I can boost the signal to one speaker, if need be, by tweaking the Oppo settings to increase the corresponding analog output. Another advantage of the Oppo is that it can accept audio/video/photos streamed from a DLNA compliant server. If the trend is to save all media on a central server (such as Synology NAS), this is rather a trivial way to set up a rudimentary HT system-but it may not meet the expectations of extreme audiophiles. |
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Post by cheetah on May 20, 2010 0:55:44 GMT -5
If you are using powered speakers, then you would need a volume control (even if each speaker has a volume control, as you wouldn't want to have to adjust each one individually)... So a MC DAC + Volume Control is basically a HT Processor (minus the video switching)... So why not just buy a HT Processor? Good question about volume control. Right now I stream iTunes to Audioengine A5. I can control the volume using my Mac/PowerBook from the couch. The GefenTV 5.1 DAC has a volume control. The Oppo BDP-83 remote also has a volume control (on the remote). So adjusting the volume or spl is not perceived to be a major obstacle. The Oppo BDP can also process video. So all I would need are an Oppo BD player, HD TV and powered speakers to set up an HT. Using wireless adapters (Audioengine AW1) I can stream audio to the surround channels. This would obviate running wires through walls. I can change my configuration or move my HT around at will without the need for rewiring. I will need power for my surround speakers (as well as front LR speakers) and I need to run speaker wire from one surround speaker to another as the amp is present in only one of them. So once I adjust the volume on the front and rear speakers, I will not have to touch them again. So no need for amps or running speaker wires though walls. There is only one volume knob for controlling both speakers of a pair in the case of Audioengine. Thus turning up the volume turns it up for both speakers equally. There is no 'balance' knob and the two speakers are voiced and matched well. It may be easier to do speaker set up in this case! I can boost the signal to one speaker, if need be, by tweaking the Oppo settings to increase the corresponding analog output. Another advantage of the Oppo is that it can accept audio/video/photos streamed from a DLNA compliant server. If the trend is to save all media on a central server (such as Synology NAS), this is rather a trivial way to set up a rudimentary HT system-but it may not meet the expectations of extreme audiophiles. I don't see why you'd spend $600 on a DAC, when you could just spend $100 more and do it right with a UMC. You'd get a lot more inputs and features(they're there in case you do decide to ever use them), simplify your wiring, likely get better sound quality, support HD formats, etc. Not trying to knock your idea, but it really seems easier to just spend the extra $100 to do it right and get a lot more for your money. |
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Post by jlafrenz on May 20, 2010 1:41:21 GMT -5
Good question about volume control. Right now I stream iTunes to Audioengine A5. I can control the volume using my Mac/PowerBook from the couch. The GefenTV 5.1 DAC has a volume control. The Oppo BDP-83 remote also has a volume control (on the remote). So adjusting the volume or spl is not perceived to be a major obstacle. The Oppo BDP can also process video. So all I would need are an Oppo BD player, HD TV and powered speakers to set up an HT. Using wireless adapters (Audioengine AW1) I can stream audio to the surround channels. This would obviate running wires through walls. I can change my configuration or move my HT around at will without the need for rewiring. I will need power for my surround speakers (as well as front LR speakers) and I need to run speaker wire from one surround speaker to another as the amp is present in only one of them. So once I adjust the volume on the front and rear speakers, I will not have to touch them again. So no need for amps or running speaker wires though walls. There is only one volume knob for controlling both speakers of a pair in the case of Audioengine. Thus turning up the volume turns it up for both speakers equally. There is no 'balance' knob and the two speakers are voiced and matched well. It may be easier to do speaker set up in this case! I can boost the signal to one speaker, if need be, by tweaking the Oppo settings to increase the corresponding analog output. Another advantage of the Oppo is that it can accept audio/video/photos streamed from a DLNA compliant server. If the trend is to save all media on a central server (such as Synology NAS), this is rather a trivial way to set up a rudimentary HT system-but it may not meet the expectations of extreme audiophiles. I don't see why you'd spend $600 on a DAC, when you could just spend $100 more and do it right with a UMC. You'd get a lot more inputs and features(they're there in case you do decide to ever use them), simplify your wiring, likely get better sound quality, support HD formats, etc. Not trying to knock your idea, but it really seems easier to just spend the extra $100 to do it right and get a lot more for your money. Exactly what I am saying. Because companies can put out a full blown processor for around the same amount of cash. Also, why develop 2 different product that essentially do the same thing? |
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MikeWI
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Post by MikeWI on May 20, 2010 5:58:09 GMT -5
If you are using powered speakers, then you would need a volume control (even if each speaker has a volume control, as you wouldn't want to have to adjust each one individually)... So a MC DAC + Volume Control is basically a HT Processor (minus the video switching)... So why not just buy a HT Processor? Good question about volume control. Right now I stream iTunes to Audioengine A5. I can control the volume using my Mac/PowerBook from the couch.The GefenTV 5.1 DAC has a volume control. The Oppo BDP-83 remote also has a volume control (on the remote). So adjusting the volume or spl is not perceived to be a major obstacle. The Oppo BDP can also process video. So all I would need are an Oppo BD player, HD TV and powered speakers to set up an HT. Using wireless adapters (Audioengine AW1) I can stream audio to the surround channels. This would obviate running wires through walls. I can change my configuration or move my HT around at will without the need for rewiring. I will need power for my surround speakers (as well as front LR speakers) and I need to run speaker wire from one surround speaker to another as the amp is present in only one of them. So once I adjust the volume on the front and rear speakers, I will not have to touch them again. So no need for amps or running speaker wires though walls. There is only one volume knob for controlling both speakers of a pair in the case of Audioengine. Thus turning up the volume turns it up for both speakers equally. There is no 'balance' knob and the two speakers are voiced and matched well. It may be easier to do speaker set up in this case! I can boost the signal to one speaker, if need be, by tweaking the Oppo settings to increase the corresponding analog output. Another advantage of the Oppo is that it can accept audio/video/photos streamed from a DLNA compliant server. If the trend is to save all media on a central server (such as Synology NAS), this is rather a trivial way to set up a rudimentary HT system-but it may not meet the expectations of extreme audiophiles. Don't you lose quality when you use the computer for volume control? I do the same thing in one of my office listening applications because convenience and the ability to mute/decrease volume is more important than quality in that scenario. However, if you are looking for a DAC presumably to increase the sound quality, than you would want to maximize the quality throughout the music chain of equipment. Mike |
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Post by hobbs on May 20, 2010 6:21:10 GMT -5
Good question about volume control. Right now I stream iTunes to Audioengine A5. I can control the volume using my Mac/PowerBook from the couch.The GefenTV 5.1 DAC has a volume control. The Oppo BDP-83 remote also has a volume control (on the remote). So adjusting the volume or spl is not perceived to be a major obstacle. The Oppo BDP can also process video. So all I would need are an Oppo BD player, HD TV and powered speakers to set up an HT. Using wireless adapters (Audioengine AW1) I can stream audio to the surround channels. This would obviate running wires through walls. I can change my configuration or move my HT around at will without the need for rewiring. I will need power for my surround speakers (as well as front LR speakers) and I need to run speaker wire from one surround speaker to another as the amp is present in only one of them. So once I adjust the volume on the front and rear speakers, I will not have to touch them again. So no need for amps or running speaker wires though walls. There is only one volume knob for controlling both speakers of a pair in the case of Audioengine. Thus turning up the volume turns it up for both speakers equally. There is no 'balance' knob and the two speakers are voiced and matched well. It may be easier to do speaker set up in this case! I can boost the signal to one speaker, if need be, by tweaking the Oppo settings to increase the corresponding analog output. Another advantage of the Oppo is that it can accept audio/video/photos streamed from a DLNA compliant server. If the trend is to save all media on a central server (such as Synology NAS), this is rather a trivial way to set up a rudimentary HT system-but it may not meet the expectations of extreme audiophiles. Don't you lose quality when you use the computer for volume control? I do the same thing in one of my office listening applications because convenience and the ability to mute/decrease volume is more important than quality in that scenario. However, if you are looking for a DAC presumably to increase the sound quality, than you would want to maximize the quality throughout the music chain of equipment. Mike I have not noticed any drop in sound quality -but my ears are shot due to being up in years! |
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Post by ossif on May 20, 2010 13:29:31 GMT -5
... P.S. it is just my opinion, but if you really want to get the most out of the XDA. Connect it straight to the amp and forget about using a pre-amp. Just playing with it here, we originally had it run into the USP. We could hear a difference and it sounded better than the ERC itself, but it really wasn't a night and day difference. So we decided to connect it directly to the amps and see what that sounded like. Well that was when we realized just how good it really is and it was the night and day difference we were expecting. Lonnie: since it is your recommendation to use the XDA without preamp, how to combine the XDA with an UMC? My guess is that a practical HT pass through box might be needed to take full advantage of this combination. Any plans on releasing something like this in the near future? Oliver |
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Post by jlafrenz on May 20, 2010 15:53:50 GMT -5
... P.S. it is just my opinion, but if you really want to get the most out of the XDA. Connect it straight to the amp and forget about using a pre-amp. Just playing with it here, we originally had it run into the USP. We could hear a difference and it sounded better than the ERC itself, but it really wasn't a night and day difference. So we decided to connect it directly to the amps and see what that sounded like. Well that was when we realized just how good it really is and it was the night and day difference we were expecting. Lonnie: since it is your recommendation to use the XDA without preamp, how to combine the XDA with an UMC? My guess is that a practical HT pass through box might be needed to take full advantage of this combination. Any plans on releasing something like this in the near future? Oliver With the UMC-1 you would need to connect it to the R/L of the 8 Channel Input. This is the only input on the UMC-1 that has a purely direct mode. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on May 20, 2010 16:20:53 GMT -5
Lonnie: since it is your recommendation to use the XDA without preamp, how to combine the XDA with an UMC? My guess is that a practical HT pass through box might be needed to take full advantage of this combination. Any plans on releasing something like this in the near future? Oliver With the UMC-1 you would need to connect it to the R/L of the 8 Channel Input. This is the only input on the UMC-1 that has a purely direct mode. Actually, Lonnie said that all of the analog inputs are pure direct if they are so defined in the setup.  |
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Post by jlafrenz on May 20, 2010 19:42:23 GMT -5
With the UMC-1 you would need to connect it to the R/L of the 8 Channel Input. This is the only input on the UMC-1 that has a purely direct mode. Actually, Lonnie said that all of the analog inputs are pure direct if they are so defined in the setup. They have a direct mode, yes, but only the 8 channel in has the hard bypass so that the incoming signal is not converted before it is sent out. At least, that was my understanding. |
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Post by ossif on May 21, 2010 0:46:20 GMT -5
Actually, Lonnie said that all of the analog inputs are pure direct if they are so defined in the setup. They have a direct mode, yes, but only the 8 channel in has the hard bypass so that the incoming signal is not converted before it is sent out. At least, that was my understanding. So does this mean it also bypasses the volume control? |
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Post by jlafrenz on May 21, 2010 1:01:41 GMT -5
They have a direct mode, yes, but only the 8 channel in has the hard bypass so that the incoming signal is not converted before it is sent out. At least, that was my understanding. So does this mean it also bypasses the volume control? No. The volume control still works as normal. |
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Post by brubacca on May 21, 2010 8:23:34 GMT -5
Hey Lonnie are we still getting a remote with the DAC?
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Post by Mr. Ben on May 21, 2010 8:37:26 GMT -5
Actually, Lonnie said that all of the analog inputs are pure direct if they are so defined in the setup. They have a direct mode, yes, but only the 8 channel in has the hard bypass so that the incoming signal is not converted before it is sent out. At least, that was my understanding. . The 2-channel analog inputs are not converted. |
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Post by jlafrenz on May 21, 2010 8:54:03 GMT -5
They have a direct mode, yes, but only the 8 channel in has the hard bypass so that the incoming signal is not converted before it is sent out. At least, that was my understanding. . The 2-channel analog inputs are not converted. I obviously missed that. I remember talking to him at Emofest last year and we specifically talked about this. I was under the impression that there was A to D conversion and then back to D to A to get sent to the amp. That was one of the reasons why people were wanting the XMC-1 is because it would have that feature where the UMC-1 wouldn't. I guess that changed. |
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Post by ossif on May 21, 2010 11:54:59 GMT -5
So does this mean it also bypasses the volume control? No. The volume control still works as normal. Then it is not a bypass. A bypass means that there is just nothing in the way. Look at the functionality of a real HT bypass. It is just a loop if you like. Hence there is no possibility to take full advantage of the sound quality if you want to use the XDA together with a surround processor in one system. That is somehow unfortunate. |
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