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Post by pdaddy on Sept 23, 2020 17:38:40 GMT -5
So I’ve seen a few reviews that say when they split the higher frequencies to their magnepans and the low frequencies to their subwoofer it really opened up the magnepans transparency, soundstage etc. Anyone else got experience with us that would like to offer their experience? Also any one know a super affordable way to do bass management right?
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Post by monkumonku on Sept 23, 2020 18:35:25 GMT -5
So I’ve seen a few reviews that say when they split the higher frequencies to their magnepans and the low frequencies to their subwoofer it really opened up the magnepans transparency, soundstage etc. Anyone else got experience with us that would like to offer their experience? Also any one know a super affordable way to do bass management right? Are you not happy with the way the LRS sound now? I think the Maggies go down to about 50 hz so maybe you wouldn't need to split the signal, just set the crossover on the sub. Something like what the Emo SE8 that I just got would be handy. That one lets you input the signal from the amp to the sub and pass it through to the mains with a choice of frequency cutoff filters (you can select 60hz, 80hz or 100hz) to pass through. |
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Post by audiobill on Sept 23, 2020 18:56:03 GMT -5
As a long time owner of Maggies, the secret is careful placement. See Boom’s comments in his Secrets review.
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Post by pdaddy on Sept 23, 2020 19:33:17 GMT -5
So I’ve seen a few reviews that say when they split the higher frequencies to their magnepans and the low frequencies to their subwoofer it really opened up the magnepans transparency, soundstage etc. Anyone else got experience with us that would like to offer their experience? Also any one know a super affordable way to do bass management right? Are you not happy with the way the LRS sound now? I think the Maggies go down to about 50 hz so maybe you wouldn't need to split the signal, just set the crossover on the sub. Something like what the Emo SE8 that I just got would be handy. That one lets you input the signal from the amp to the sub and pass it through to the mains with a choice of frequency cutoff filters (you can select 60hz, 80hz or 100hz) to pass through. monkumonku The assertion I heard was once you ONLY send 50hz and above to the maggies and they rest to the sub, the less work now pushed to the maggies (i.e. no bass signal below 50hz) make them sound better. I LOVE the way they sound now, but always the audio alchemistic looking to tweak, I was wondering if anyone had that experience. |
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Post by pdaddy on Sept 23, 2020 19:36:07 GMT -5
As a long time owner of Maggies, the secret is careful placement. See Boom’s comments in his Secrets review. Thanks audiobill. I have them tuned in well on placement. Just tweaking at this point. |
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Post by monkumonku on Sept 23, 2020 19:36:54 GMT -5
Are you not happy with the way the LRS sound now? I think the Maggies go down to about 50 hz so maybe you wouldn't need to split the signal, just set the crossover on the sub. Something like what the Emo SE8 that I just got would be handy. That one lets you input the signal from the amp to the sub and pass it through to the mains with a choice of frequency cutoff filters (you can select 60hz, 80hz or 100hz) to pass through. monkumonku The assertion I heard was once you ONLY send 50hz and above to the maggies and they rest to the sub, the less work now pushed to the maggies (i.e. no bass signal below 50hz) make them sound better. I LOVE the way they sound now, but always the audio alchemistic looking to tweak, I was wondering if anyone had that experience. I guess that would lessen the stress on the amp. Well, I look forward to your findings! |
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Post by jackfish on Sept 23, 2020 22:52:10 GMT -5
Magnepans do roll off quite sharply below their rated -3dB low frequency response. Hence, I found that they do quite well running full range while the sub takes 50 Hz and lower. However, I do run them with the USP-1 high pass at 50 Hz, low pass at 50 Hz to the Rythmik F12 subwoofer and everything seems well integrated. But I can’t be certain that one configuration sounds better than the other.
Harrison Labs FMOD Inline Crossovers are about the least expensive way to incorporate bass management into almost any system. They do alter the impedance to the amplifier, so may not work well with some amps.
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Post by rbk123 on Sept 24, 2020 8:27:58 GMT -5
The assertion I heard was once you ONLY send 50hz and above to the maggies and they rest to the sub, the less work now pushed to the maggies (i.e. no bass signal below 50hz) make them sound better. You'll get 2 small benefits - the first as you expect, less coloration from having to drive the lowest frequencies. The 2nd will be your low end will improve with subs that will simply outperform the planar strips in the Maggies. The latter will be the greater impact and is inevitably just lumped in with "the XXX speaker has to work less hard overall" theory. |
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Post by donh50 on Sept 25, 2020 17:36:19 GMT -5
I have used subs on Maggies since my first pair ca. 1979. They distort heavily when driven hard in the bass and freeing the panels to do what they do best has always worked best for me.
YMMV - Don
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Post by bluemeanies on Aug 22, 2022 21:31:38 GMT -5
First time owner of the Magnepan speaker.
I have only had my .7’s for a couple of weeks and my first impression was not an overwhelming positive view or more to point I was disappointed.
However as time has gone by I fell the Maggies and I are loving one another. My speaker placement has been changed numerous times. Three feet from back wall and at least that measurement from the side walls or more. I do have them tied in symmetrical to where I am sitting. Frankly I the Maggie sweet spot (in my room) is in more than one listening position. The sound fills the entire room with voices taking dead center. Musically the 7’s do a splendid job separating all instruments. It’s not a hodge/podge of instruments, instead it is a beautiful cornucopia of each instrument blending there distinct sound to each recording. I still believe the 7’s have some more breaking in but I do not believe it is a lengthy project like with most speakers 100-150 hours and in some cases more.
I was considering a small subwoofer but as I go on with Maggies I think I will hold back and let things play out until the .7’s are fully broken in.
My integrated amplifier has an eight band equalizer that I have been adjusting and experimenting with over the last couple of days with good success and the low end is sufficient. I cannot say that I will never purchase a subwoofer ( never say never) but for now what I am hearing a subwoofer is not in my near future.
The Maggies for their price range will give any quality speaker a run for their money.
Next investment…stepping into the vinyl music scene.
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Post by leonski on Oct 18, 2022 20:05:53 GMT -5
I have a single HSU Reserach VTF 2 MK 2 or MK3......like I care?
My preamp.....a Parasound P5 has useable bass managment.
Here's my setup:
Crossover main speaker.....Magnepna MG1.6 at maybe 50hz.......This frees the panel from the lowest octave or so.
Slope is 12db / octave.
Run SUB full range from the pre, but use the INTERNAL crossover at maybe 40hz.....It is a 24db / octave crossover.
The result? VERY little (no audible) overlap between panels and sub. Stage witdth.....and this is after extensive 'tune up'
is very wide. And if I just flip the sub's power toggle? Collapses inward.
As the sub output....decreases.....main speaker output is 'coming on'......but there is a GAP where the crossovers (I HOPE) tend
to Sum Flat and produce good output......
And as audiobill said? SETUP IS KEY........
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Post by pedrocols on Oct 18, 2022 20:58:03 GMT -5
I currently run my 1.7s full range (I have very good output down to 45hz) and depends on what I am listening to I turn the subwoofer on or off. I think that Box speaker sometimes are design with a bump on the lower frequencies. The bass from Magnepan speakers takes a little used to and 100% with Bill when it comes to placement.
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 18, 2022 22:33:51 GMT -5
The options for standalone stereo subwoofer crossovers are few and far between. Stay far, far away from pro Audio crossovers and car-audio crossovers - with Magnepans, you’re sure to hear their coarsening effects.
If you are willing to purchase a preamplifier with bass management, Parasound & Emotiva both offer them. But if you already have a decent preamp, this isn’t an attractive option from a financial standpoint.
If you’re looking for a true, audiophile-quality subwoofer crossover (and you’ll want nothing less with Maggie’s), I can think of but two:
JL audio makes the CR-1. It offers adjustable crossover frequencies, adjustable slopes, and adjustable tuning at the crossover frequency. It costs $3,500, but there’s nothing better that you can buy new.
If you’re willing to fish the waters of used gear, an equivalently good-sounding, though less versatile option is the Dahlquist DQ-LP1. It consists of an IC-based, third-order low pass filter for the sub and a first-order high-pass filter whose frequency is adjusted by replacing an internal capacitor per channel (no soldering required). This makes for a phase-coherent crossover with no additional active circuitry in the most-critical high-pass section. Don’t buy a broken one - the active ICs are no longer made! But for about $300 on e-Bay, you won’t get a better-sounding crossover.
Boom
Postscriptum - With Maggie’s, depending on the agility of your sub, a crossover frequency of an octave above the natural roll off frequency of your speakers would be best. Otherwise, the mechanical roll off of the speakers will combine with the roll off of the crossover electronics to give you too steep a curve (affecting the smoothness at the crossover frequency).
That said, finding a sub quick enough to match the Maggie’s at the 80 to 100 Hz. crossover will take some shopping. AVOID home-theater subs - they’re designed for maximum output and resonate too badly to work well with Maggies.
And finally, you can easily create digital subwoofer crossovers. On the plus side, you get virtually infinite control over both crossover frequency and slope. But on the negative side, if you’re inserting the digital crossover ANYWHERE in the analog portion of the signal path, then you’re adding an additional analog-to-digital AND a digital-back-to-analog conversion! If you’re going to do that, you’ve thrown away so much sound quality that you’re back into pro-audio / car-audio country. Don’t go there…
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Post by leonski on Oct 19, 2022 1:00:53 GMT -5
The options for standalone stereo subwoofer crossovers are few and far between. Stay far, far away from pro Audio crossovers and car-audio crossovers - with Magnepans, you’re sure to hear their coarsening effects. If you are willing to purchase a preamplifier with bass management, Parasound & Emotiva both offer them. But if you already have a decent preamp, this isn’t an attractive option from a financial standpoint. If you’re looking for a true, audiophile-quality subwoofer crossover (and you’ll want nothing less with Maggie’s), I can think of but two: JL audio makes the CR-1. It offers adjustable crossover frequencies, adjustable slopes, and adjustable tuning at the crossover frequency. It costs $3,500, but there’s nothing better that you can buy new. If you’re willing to fish the waters of used gear, an equivalently good-sounding, though less versatile option is the Dahlquist DQ-LP1. It consists of an IC-based, third-order low pass filter for the sub and a first-order high-pass filter whose frequency is adjusted by replacing an internal capacitor per channel (no soldering required). This makes for a phase-coherent crossover with no additional active circuitry in the most-critical high-pass section. Don’t buy a broken one - the active ICs are no longer made! But for about $300 on e-Bay, you won’t get a better-sounding crossover. Boom Postscriptum - With Maggie’s, depending on the agility of your sub, a crossover frequency of an octave above the natural roll off frequency of your speakers would be best. Otherwise, the mechanical roll off of the speakers will combine with the roll off of the crossover electronics to give you too steep a curve (affecting the smoothness at the crossover frequency). That said, finding a sub quick enough to match the Maggie’s at the 80 to 100 Hz. crossover will take some shopping. AVOID home-theater subs - they’re designed for maximum output and resonate too badly to work well with Maggies. And finally, you can easily create digital subwoofer crossovers. On the plus side, you get virtually infinite control over both crossover frequency and slope. But on the negative side, if you’re inserting the digital crossover ANYWHERE in the analog portion of the signal path, then you’re adding an additional analog-to-digital AND a digital-back-to-analog conversion! If you’re going to do that, you’ve thrown away so much sound quality that you’re back into pro-audio / car-audio country. Don’t go there… MARCHAND makes an excellent crossover....... www.marchandelec.com/I'll let YOU parse thru the website. I know a user and he has a couple different frequency modules (they plug in). You can also DIY several. but without 'amplification' you are sort of stuck with lead-length issues.... For the REAL over achiever? ELLIOT SOUND PRODUCTS has some boards and DIY helps along this line.... sound-au.com/project08.htm |
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Post by fbczar on Oct 19, 2022 21:44:17 GMT -5
So I’ve seen a few reviews that say when they split the higher frequencies to their magnepans and the low frequencies to their subwoofer it really opened up the magnepans transparency, soundstage etc. Anyone else got experience with us that would like to offer their experience? Also any one know a super affordable way to do bass management right? I have a pair of Magnepan 3.7i's and a pair of Kreisel DXD12012 sealed subwoofers. For power I use XPA1-L monoblocks. I have the crossover in my XMC-2 set to 80Hz with a 24DB Octave slope. The system with the subs is better than without them. I do think the Maggies are more transparent when they do not have to handle the lower frequencies. Of course, you need great subs to pull it off. I am really interested in GR-Research open baffle subwoofers, but I am really pleased as is. Amazed actually... |
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Post by leonski on Oct 19, 2022 22:25:26 GMT -5
Open Baffle may actually be more ......'Phase Correct' with Maggies......since both are basically dipole.......
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Post by fbczar on Oct 19, 2022 22:55:29 GMT -5
Open Baffle may actually be more ......'Phase Correct' with Maggies......since both are basically dipole....... I think you are correct. I also think the Maggie’s with open baffle subs and sealed subs just for LFE would be perfect for home theater. The Maggies with OB Subs would be hard to beat for music. The XMC-2 perfect for such a setup. |
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Post by leonski on Oct 19, 2022 23:05:04 GMT -5
I have a ported sub.......located behind and to the right of my RH speaker. I note that PLUS phase and MINUS phase produce about the same bass output.......
I expect that were I to have an OB sub? And located 'in plane' with the panels? WAY different result.....and might even benefit from a variable phase....not just
a 2-position switch....
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Post by marcl on Oct 20, 2022 4:36:16 GMT -5
Open Baffle may actually be more ......'Phase Correct' with Maggies......since both are basically dipole....... I think you are correct. I also think the Maggie’s with open baffle subs and sealed subs just for LFE would be perfect for home theater. The Maggies with OB Subs would be hard to beat for music. The XMC-2 perfect for such a setup. Look at what Magnepan is doing with the "30.7 For Condos". The low end is an open baffle dipole with eight ~7" woofers in a V-shaped panel for each channel. They use DSP and a dedicated amp to tune response to the room/placement. I've heard it, and it sounds as good or better than a 30.7, and is said to extend toward the 20's, though a sub is still needed for LFE-type dynamics in the bottom octave or below 20Hz. GR OB dipoles based on 12" drivers are said to be a great match for Maggies. But ... how will two or three 12" drivers sound between 40-100Hz (or higher) vs the eight 7" drivers? They'll measure fine ... but how will they sound compared to a Maggie bass panel or the eight small woofers? Nobody has been specific about how high the "for condos" woofers cross to the midrange, but given a 3.7 crosses around 300Hz ... safe bet they're running those dipole woofers up that high. And given the footprint of that V-woofer, you can pretty easily place it to integrate the phase with the mid/tweeter panels. I have no idea if there's some "secret sauce" in that V-woofer design, but if there isn't, one could pretty easily build it. p.s. at the audio show in TX in August Wendell demo'd the V-woofer with the LRS+. At one point he inadvertently played the woofer full range with the LRS+ turned off .... and for a moment he didn't even notice! So he intentionally let some people hear it, and it was said to be amazing how the V-woofer performed full range. + leonski ttocs |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Oct 20, 2022 9:08:43 GMT -5
There are a few more things I would add about "open baffle subwoofers". With relatively high frequencies, as the driver moves in and out, it "pushes and pulls the air", and this produces a "moving wave" which is then "launched" into the room in a specific direction. This is why we discuss things like directionality and dispersion patterns. (And we often visualize this something like the beam coming from a spotlight or floodlight.) However, with very low frequencies, whose wavelength is much larger than the diameter of the driver... In a sealed cabinet, or even a tuned cabinet, you get what's called "room pressurization". In oversimplified terms this means that, when the driver moves outward, the inside of the box gets a tiny bit bigger, and the volume of the room gets a tiny bit smaller, and vice versa. And this effect is not at all directional. (And we often visualize it as if the speaker was a sphere that changes slightly in size as the driver move sin and out.) HOWEVER, with an open baffle subwoofer, we are relying SOLELY on the first effect. As far as pressurization is concerned, when the driver moves forward, it pushes air from the front, and pulls air from the back... And, as long as the wavelength of the frequency involved is longer than the path around the baffle, the pressure in the room doesn't change significantly. (So, in essence, we get to hear "air moving" but NOT "a change in pressure".) As a result of this, with a typical open-baffle speaker, you need a lot of driver area, moving a significant amount, to produce a significant output level. And, as it works out, you need to apply a LOT of EQ to get it to work. In fact, in many cases, and "open baffle sub" requires an EQ boost of 12 dB PER OCTAVE - ALL THE WAY TO ITS BOTTOM LIMIT. And, BEYOND THAT, because you are listening to "a wavefront rather than a change in pressure" LOCATION AND DIRECTION BECOME SIGNIFICANT ISSUES. So, for example, with a sealed sub, at 30 Hz, the output is almost perfectly non-directional. But, with an open baffle sub, at 30 Hz, you may hear nice bass NEXT TO the speaker, and no bass at all directly in front of or behind it. And this may be very different, depending on the speaker's design, and the size and shape of the room, and where the speaker is located in the room. In other words... You already know that Magneplanars are quite fussy about room acoustics, room placement, and listening location... And you should assume that all of these issues will be SIGNIFICANTLY more significant with an open baffle subwoofer... And, as a broad generalization, they tend to work best in very large rooms, and where the listening position is directly to the side of the open baffle subwoofer. It seems obvious that the "V-shaped panel" is intended to add some directionality to the pressure wave... They're using that "V" to create a "faster moving wavefront" - much the way a folded ribbon tweeter works - to enable those drivers to move more air, faster, in a narrower direction. But, even so, this effect is going to be limited at the frequencies involved. I think you are correct. I also think the Maggie’s with open baffle subs and sealed subs just for LFE would be perfect for home theater. The Maggies with OB Subs would be hard to beat for music. The XMC-2 perfect for such a setup. Look at what Magnepan is doing with the "30.7 For Condos". The low end is an open baffle dipole with eight ~7" woofers in a V-shaped panel for each channel. They use DSP and a dedicated amp to tune response to the room/placement. I've heard it, and it sounds as good or better than a 30.7, and is said to extend toward the 20's, though a sub is still needed for LFE-type dynamics in the bottom octave or below 20Hz. GR OB dipoles based on 12" drivers are said to be a great match for Maggies. But ... how will two or three 12" drivers sound between 40-100Hz (or higher) vs the eight 7" drivers? They'll measure fine ... but how will they sound compared to a Maggie bass panel or the eight small woofers? Nobody has been specific about how high the "for condos" woofers cross to the midrange, but given a 3.7 crosses around 300Hz ... safe bet they're running those dipole woofers up that high. And given the footprint of that V-woofer, you can pretty easily place it to integrate the phase with the mid/tweeter panels. I have no idea if there's some "secret sauce" in that V-woofer design, but if there isn't, one could pretty easily build it. p.s. at the audio show in TX in August Wendell demo'd the V-woofer with the LRS+. At one point he inadvertently played the woofer full range with the LRS+ turned off .... and for a moment he didn't even notice! So he intentionally let some people hear it, and it was said to be amazing how the V-woofer performed full range. + leonski ttocs |
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