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Post by rockman85 on Nov 23, 2020 17:25:32 GMT -5
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
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Post by ttocs on Nov 23, 2020 18:04:27 GMT -5
You might want to get a LCR meter that measures Inductance, Capacitance, and Resistance. It can be enlightening to find out how those three properties change when wire is twisted, braided, straight, together vs separated, etc. It's not just resistance. All three properties are tied together.
Re the gauge, it's a bit excessive. I use 14AWG 4-conductor speaker cable and pair up the ends for an effective AWG of 11 gauge. But my cables are less than 7'. I experimented with combing all 4 conductors, which if I recall is about 8 gauge, but didn't like it.
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Post by repeetavx on Nov 23, 2020 18:06:48 GMT -5
Looks ok. I like a large guage because of damping factors. It will be unwieldy. It should sound like most any other stranded cable you can buy.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Nov 23, 2020 18:29:52 GMT -5
All I can say is I wish I was the one selling you the cable. Profit$$$
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Post by creimes on Nov 23, 2020 19:54:45 GMT -5
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Post by rockman85 on Nov 23, 2020 20:09:30 GMT -5
Thanks for this link, this looks promising. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 24, 2020 5:11:36 GMT -5
I've made 8AWG cables before and can tell you of the issues:
1. Bring a GIANT soldering iron. One of those that they made in the 1950s that look like a ½" metal pipe with a cap on the end. You'll need that much heat (or else use a torch) to get the strands hot enough to tin. Even 8AWG laughs at "soldering pencils." 4AWG almost certainly will need a propane torch.
2. Want to terminate the wire? FUGGITABOUTIT! Nobody (Nobody) makes spades or bananas for that big a wire. Yeah, some SAY they do, but just try & stuff all the strands into the connector - not even close.
3. The huge wire is so stiff that the amplifier and speakers go where the WIRE wants them to go. Forget about tight radius turns.
4. The advantage of the large radius wire (low resistance) is totally lost at the source and destination ends. You can't stuff even an 8AWG wire into a binding post or terminal, so you end up filing down the diameter to something usable. Once you've reduced the diameter, you've increased the resistance - so why bother with the larger wire in the first place?
My recommendation to you? Stick with 10AWG at the largest and then either double the runs and/or biwire. The easiest way to double runs is to make two wires the same length - fit one pair with spade terminals and the other with banana plugs. Then, at both the amplifier and speaker ends, use both a spade and a banana to connect. I've also used biwire pairs with 12AWG (or even 10) on the woofers and maybe 14AWG on the high frequency run - for these, I use a single spade or banana on the amplifier end and terminate the speaker end to match the terminals supplied by the speaker-maker.
Good luck, and if you DO go insane and make the 4AWG wires, please post us some photos!
Boomzilla
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Nov 24, 2020 9:35:51 GMT -5
The reason binding posts are designed for wire no larger than about 12 AWG is because there is no reason to use wire any larger.
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Post by 405x5 on Nov 24, 2020 10:20:13 GMT -5
You would do well to read up on how thick tweeter leads DON’T need to be in order to blow your ears apart. Bill |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 13:26:17 GMT -5
My recommendation to you? Stick with 10AWG at the largest and then either double the runs and/or biwire. The easiest way to double runs is to make two wires the same length - fit one pair with spade terminals and the other with banana plugs. Then, at both the amplifier and speaker ends, use both a spade and a banana to connect. I've also used biwire pairs with 12AWG (or even 10) on the woofers and maybe 14AWG on the high frequency run - for these, I use a single spade or banana on the amplifier end and terminate the speaker end to match the terminals supplied by the speaker-maker. Good luck, and if you DO go insane and make the 4AWG wires, please post us some photos! Boomzilla I second your suggestion. I used knuconceptz 10 gauge wire [6ft lengths] and biwired also. On the amp end I used both spades and bananas: www.disqus.social/2020/02/bi-wire-tekton-designs-ulfberht-speakers.htmlHere's the amp end where to each binding post is one spade and banana:  And on the same channel's wire to the back of the speaker's terminals for biwiring:  |
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Post by 405x5 on Nov 24, 2020 13:56:12 GMT -5
Congratulations! You now have the capability of delivering 85 amps. to your speakers with no excessive heat. |
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Post by SteveH on Nov 25, 2020 9:57:29 GMT -5
Thanks for this link, this looks promising. I use this same 8 gauge. If I were to do again, I would also purchase the 'pants' to dress it up.   |
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Post by creimes on Nov 25, 2020 10:25:24 GMT -5
Thanks for this link, this looks promising. I use this same 8 gauge. If I were to do again, I would also purchase the 'pants' to dress it up. View AttachmentView AttachmentI put together the 10g ones mostly because it looks cool and the 10g fits better than something smaller, now I use the Kord Ultra Flex 10 Gauge cable with their BFA Banana ends, I sold my Karma ones as they were two short now that I don't use Monoblocks. |
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Post by lhracing on Nov 25, 2020 11:27:48 GMT -5
The oversized wire gauge craze is interesting and in some cases may make a slight difference.
The following is from a Crown 1250 watt amplifier manual.
For low-impedance loads, select the appropriate size of wire based on the distance from amplifier to
speaker.
Distance Wire Size
Up to 25 ft. (7.6m) 16 AWG
26-40 ft. (7.9-12.2m) 14 AWG
41-60 ft. (12.5-18.3m) 12 AWG
> 60 ft (18.3m) 10 AWG
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Post by donh50 on Nov 25, 2020 12:06:20 GMT -5
See e.g. roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm and roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretableThe wire size needed is based upon speaker impedance, amplifier impedance, and run length (among other things). Larger is generally better but like anything else too much (too large) can be as bad as too little. At best excessively large wire won't hurt anything but won't change the sound either. YMMV - Don |
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Post by 405x5 on Nov 25, 2020 13:15:58 GMT -5
The oversized wire gauge craze is interesting and in some cases make a slight difference. The following is from a Crown 1250 watt amplifier manual. For low-impedance loads, select the appropriate size of wire based on the distance from amplifier to speaker. Distance Wire Size Up to 25 ft. (7.6m) 16 AWG 26-40 ft. (7.9-12.2m) 14 AWG 41-60 ft. (12.5-18.3m) 12 AWG > 60 ft (18.3m) 10 AWG Yes! this is essentially right on the money. Unusual to see a post on this subject that actually makes sense. |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Nov 25, 2020 18:48:42 GMT -5
Perfect for a double use of your cables on arc welding machine for 1 inch thick steel plate.  |
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Post by rockman85 on Nov 25, 2020 18:51:52 GMT -5
I've made 8AWG cables before and can tell you of the issues: 1. Bring a GIANT soldering iron. One of those that they made in the 1950s that look like a ½" metal pipe with a cap on the end. You'll need that much heat (or else use a torch) to get the strands hot enough to tin. Even 8AWG laughs at "soldering pencils." 4AWG almost certainly will need a propane torch. 2. Want to terminate the wire? FUGGITABOUTIT! Nobody ( Nobody) makes spades or bananas for that big a wire. Yeah, some SAY they do, but just try & stuff all the strands into the connector - not even close. 3. The huge wire is so stiff that the amplifier and speakers go where the WIRE wants them to go. Forget about tight radius turns. 4. The advantage of the large radius wire (low resistance) is totally lost at the source and destination ends. You can't stuff even an 8AWG wire into a binding post or terminal, so you end up filing down the diameter to something usable. Once you've reduced the diameter, you've increased the resistance - so why bother with the larger wire in the first place? My recommendation to you? Stick with 10AWG at the largest and then either double the runs and/or biwire. The easiest way to double runs is to make two wires the same length - fit one pair with spade terminals and the other with banana plugs. Then, at both the amplifier and speaker ends, use both a spade and a banana to connect. I've also used biwire pairs with 12AWG (or even 10) on the woofers and maybe 14AWG on the high frequency run - for these, I use a single spade or banana on the amplifier end and terminate the speaker end to match the terminals supplied by the speaker-maker. Good luck, and if you DO go insane and make the 4AWG wires, please post us some photos! Boomzilla Hey Boom, humor me for a moment though. Regarding whether the wire would fit, check out these images... what do you think? www.nakamichiplug.com/pic/0575G04.jpgwww.batterycablesusa.com/assets/images/4-0-close-meas.jpgIf that cable is 5mm and those plugs are about 10mm, should work right? |
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ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,170
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Post by ttocs on Nov 25, 2020 19:10:43 GMT -5
^^^^^^
Those plugs are nice!
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Post by Boomzilla on Nov 25, 2020 21:36:35 GMT -5
Hi rockman85 - In theory, they’d be fine - but I’ve used those EXACT same plugs, and I could never get all the strands in. Further, with most of the plug’s interior volume filled with wire strands, the wire-retainer setscrews will NOT screw all the way into the body of the plug. Since the stubs of those setscrews now protrude from the plug body, the threaded compression collar won’t screw onto the plug body. In my opinion, the Nakamichi plugs are poorly engineered and absolutely do.not work. Boom |
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