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Post by chops on Dec 27, 2020 16:44:45 GMT -5
Sorry chops , I was hoping the dust would settle so you could express your thoughts about what you heard in your system in your room with your ears. It's sad when we can't share openly. Scott It's not your fault. It's just a trend in the whole year 2020 poop show I guess. |
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Post by audiobill on Dec 27, 2020 17:18:36 GMT -5
Oh, c’mon now. Some good discussion and different pov is what makes this interesting. Easy to cry and take your toys home
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Post by brutiarti on Dec 27, 2020 17:19:23 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing. I had the XPA 2 gen2 and an XPR2 but not the DR2 so this was not only informative but pretty much on point of what I would have predicted for the DR2. Is your DAC / preamp fully balanced? If not I wonder if having a fully balanced front end would push the DR2 ahead a little more. I replaced my XPR2 with a fully balanced amp, ATI 4003 and with the XMC2 being fully balanced, I felt the ATI was a significant upgrade from the XPR2. Yes, my system is fully balanced from source to amp. The XPA-2 Gen2 is not a fully balanced amplifier, just some clarification. |
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Post by leonski on Dec 27, 2020 17:34:38 GMT -5
My Parasound amps and my CA DAC both have balanced connections. NEITHER are native balanced.
If EMO says the buzzword stuff, I'd tend to believe they ARE native balanced. the ATI amp? Would require some looking into....
as would the Schitt Freya+
In the case of a fully balanced system, that is best-case as such things go. Cables are a little more $$ but very quiet in operation. And last nearly forever.
And by ALL MEANS, chops, finish your review. I'm certain to read it, and I'm equally certain others will as well. Especially those thinking 'upgrade path'.....
Give stuff time to settle, of course, than do your thing. You might even find out something Unexpected like you need to slightly reorient the speakers to take best
advantage of one amp or another.
Maybe even one of the CATS will have a preference.
I think stuff like the room IS important. A concrete walled basement? Or a Square room? Or maybe a house built on a slab?
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Post by chops on Dec 27, 2020 17:41:58 GMT -5
Yes, my system is fully balanced from source to amp. The XPA-2 Gen2 is not a fully balanced amplifier, just some clarification. I was referring to it's current configuration with the DR-2 in place. I know my Gen 2 isn't. |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Dec 27, 2020 19:09:31 GMT -5
 The info for the ATI is copied and pasted below. I didn’t realize that some of the audience do not know my gear as they are not boutique brands. I’m actually really interested in this comparison because no one else has ever compared the DR amps with the other Emotiva amps. So is the conclusion that your brother’s DR amps are worth it or not really. I considered the DR3 before I bought my 4003 as they were both fully balanced. I found a smoking deal on the 4003 and the DR3 was regular price at the time of purchase so the decision went to the ATI. And I may have to buy some more amps for my other system. ————————————————————————— AT4000 Morris Kessler Signature Amplifiers FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE AVAILABLE NOVEMBER, 2015 at www.classicaudioparts.com and other fine retailers and custom installers. Montebello, CA , October 14, 2015 – Amplifier Technologies, Inc., the prolific manufacturer of many of the high end audio’s best amplifiers today added a new series of amplifiers designed by their president and chief engineer, Morris Kessler. The 4000 series amplifiers, available with 2 to 7 channels, share the design philosophy and circuit sophistication of ATI’s award-winning 6000 Series amps with power output reduced to 200W RMS per channel at 8 ohms and 300 W RMS at 4 ohms. Furthermore, their “signature series” designation with a facsimile of Kessler’s signature on the main panel attests the special nature of these amplifiers. Beyond Kessler’s personal identification, these amplifiers share these key features with the 6000 Series Signature amps. 1. Fully balanced, differential amplifier design with two output stages per channel but with only a single input stage. The advantages of balanced designs are retained and noise is further reduced by 50%. 2. Current feedback instead of the more common voltage feedback. The reason: current feedback amplifiers are faster with virtually unlmited slew rate and are better able to reproduce today’s best music and film. 3. Thermaltrak output devices: Unlike traditional designs where external diodes attached to the heat sink track the amplifiers operating conditions to adjust bias, Thermaltrak devices have the diodes in the same package as the transistors so bias is optimized in real-time. 4. Dual DC servos per channel to control DC offset. 5. Dual toroidal transformers with independent secondary windings. Electrically, each amplifier channel has its own transformer. All the amplifiers in the 4000 series are rated at 200 Watts RMS from 20 Hz to 20 kHz with no more that 0.03% THD at 8 ohms with all channels driven and 300 Watts RMS at 4 ohms under the same conditions. Signal-to-noise ratio is typically 126 dB referenced to full output so each amplifier in the series is capable of playing back the full dynamic range available on today’s lossless recordings. All ATI amplifiers are available in standard (17”) and rack-mount (19”) chassis with domestic (117V) of Export (220 to 240V) chassis and are covered by ATI’s 7-year transferrable warranty. |
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Post by leonski on Dec 27, 2020 20:19:35 GMT -5
Doesn't ATI also make amps for 'rebranding'......Maybe outlaw? Others?
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Dec 27, 2020 20:41:31 GMT -5
Doesn't ATI also make amps for 'rebranding'......Maybe outlaw? Others? Yes, that’s how they started. Some of their older designs are used for outlaw and monoprice. I was going to buy the Monoprice amps but they weren’t fully balanced even though they had balanced outputs. ATI signature 4005 used to rebranded by Mark Levinson as the 535H. The signature 6002 is equivalent to the Mark Levinson 332h but with beefier transformers. These ATI amps are excellent - my buddy who has the 6002 says they blow away his old XPR2. I concur that my 4003 is clearly superior than the XPR2 or XPR5 that I used to have. I really don’t know why they are cleaner / faster (whatever terminology you want) than the XPR2. Not that the XPR2 is a bad amp, it’s still a great amp but my F228Be sounded better when I swapped out the amps. Same room same everything else. I don’t know their whole history but they make some good stuff  . And they bought Theta. |
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Post by mauriceminor on Dec 27, 2020 20:43:28 GMT -5
Doesn't ATI also make amps for 'rebranding'......Maybe outlaw? Others? An internet search : SAE, Outlaw, Lexicon, and Monoprice Siegfried Linkwitz was a dealer and regarded them rather highly His commentary and measurements on linkwitzlab.com |
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Post by leonski on Dec 28, 2020 2:03:02 GMT -5
Doesn't ATI also make amps for 'rebranding'......Maybe outlaw? Others? Yes, that’s how they started. Some of their older designs are used for outlaw and monoprice. I was going to buy the Monoprice amps but they weren’t fully balanced even though they had balanced outputs. ATI signature 4005 used to rebranded by Mark Levinson as the 535H. The signature 6002 is equivalent to the Mark Levinson 332h but with beefier transformers. These ATI amps are excellent - my buddy who has the 6002 says they blow away his old XPR2. I concur that my 4003 is clearly superior than the XPR2 or XPR5 that I used to have. I really don’t know why they are cleaner / faster (whatever terminology you want) than the XPR2. Not that the XPR2 is a bad amp, it’s still a great amp but my F228Be sounded better when I swapped out the amps. Same room same everything else. I don’t know their whole history but they make some good stuff . And they bought Theta. I remember the THETA DREADNAUGHT. I don't remember details but the Names says pretty much ALL. It was large and heavy. 2 upgrade cycles ago, my Carver Cube had died and I was searching for a new amp. Rotel RB1070 simply did NOT have enough power so I was searching. I briefly considered the OUTLAW amps....specifically the M200 monoblock for which I was considering a QUAD and an upgrade to an ACTIVE crosover. I didn't go that way and later heard some .....odd.....things about those amps dealing with the 'G' or 'H' power supply..... Not that where I went was much better. I ended up NOT liking the PSAudio using B&O ASP modules. But am perfectly content with my Parasounds. And I never DID get my act together vis a vis active crossover. IF (really.....IF) I had the coin? I'd consider Klipsch Forte III which would mean I need a LOT less amp. And If I won the LOTTERY? Sanders Magtech amps and Electrostat speakers. I heard them together at a show and was left speechless. I think they were full range. Last ML 'stats I heard with the integrated woofer? I could hear a speed difference and some artifacts which may have been in the crossover region. That would take some time to figure out. ATI sound like they have it together. And the 4000 series? PLENTY of power for all but the lowest sensitivity speakers in the largest space AND with the highest level expectations. |
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Post by chops on Dec 28, 2020 6:25:38 GMT -5
And just like that, another thread gone right clear off topic.
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Post by Lsc on Dec 28, 2020 7:26:57 GMT -5
And just like that, another thread gone right clear off topic. Reposting my question: I’m actually really interested in this comparison because no one else has ever compared the DR amps with the other Emotiva amps. So is the conclusion that your brother’s DR amps are worth it or not really. Do you feel like you need to get the DR2 or are the difference noticeable but it’s okay just to stick with the XPA2? |
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Post by dsonyay on Dec 28, 2020 7:30:59 GMT -5
And just like that, another thread gone right clear off topic. Naw.. Right off the bat, you said exactly what this was - comparing 2 different amps (yours and your friend’s) using “your” system and in “your” room. Nothing else. I certainly don’t expect you to bring in different speakers, add room treatments, etc.. because all you’re doing is swapping out amps and comparing the difference. I wouldn’t consider this a general review of two Amps as done in magazines, YouTube, etc. where all sorts of variables are thrown into the review. So yeah, I think the majority of us get it.. so please continue. |
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Post by Lsc on Dec 28, 2020 8:12:12 GMT -5
And just like that, another thread gone right clear off topic. Naw.. Right off the bat, you said exactly what this was - comparing 2 different amps (yours and your friend’s) using “your” system and in “your” room. Nothing else. I certainly don’t expect you to bring in different speakers, add room treatments, etc.. because all you’re doing is swapping out amps and comparing the difference. I wouldn’t consider this a general review of two Amps as done in magazines, YouTube, etc. where all sorts of variables are thrown into the review. So yeah, I think the majority of us get it.. so please continue. Exactly. I take it as additional information for my potential purchase decision. Quite helpful in the age of the Internet. I think the OP is a little irritated by some of the comments but hopefully he will just let it go and continue. Lots of good impressions on this thread. I was actually hoping for “the DR2 is unbelievable and is a beast of an amp!” But it wasn’t that...which is very helpful |
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Post by davidl81 on Dec 28, 2020 11:15:50 GMT -5
And just like that, another thread gone right clear off topic. Reposting my question: I’m actually really interested in this comparison because no one else has ever compared the DR amps with the other Emotiva amps. So is the conclusion that your brother’s DR amps are worth it or not really. Do you feel like you need to get the DR2 or are the difference noticeable but it’s okay just to stick with the XPA2? I will also chime in as I personally went from a XPA-2 G2 to the DR-2. When I did the "upgrade" I was running a Marantz AV8802A, and honestly did not hear much if any difference between the DR-2 and the XPA-2. Mostly the same things the OP has posted earlier. It was more silent than the XPA-2 and the XPA-2 seemed ever so slightly a warmer sounding amp. Of course the DR-2 is a much cooler amp and much much lighter. I have not noticed the power issues, but I also run my DR-2 on a dedicated 20A line so there are no lights to dim out. But since the amp swap I have also swapped out the AV8802A for the RMC-1. And the RMC-1 with it's fully balanced signal sounds amazing with the DR-2. The DR-2 is just so fast and the bass is so impactful with the RMC-1. And of course its dead silent on the fully balanced path. I do wish I had the XPA-2 G2 to test out on the RMC-1 though. My basic summary of the two amps would be the DR-2 is not worth the upgrade from a XPA-2 G2. Not that the DR-2 is bad, it is not. It is a better amp than the XPA-2, but the XPA-2 is just a solid amp that the small delta in performance is not worth the $1600 to buy the DR-2 then go through the trouble of selling the XPA-2. But if you have a fully balanced pre/pro (XMC-1/2 etc) then the DR-2 just pairs so well with that processor it may just be worth the upgrade. |
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Post by dsonyay on Dec 28, 2020 14:21:27 GMT -5
Reposting my question: I’m actually really interested in this comparison because no one else has ever compared the DR amps with the other Emotiva amps. So is the conclusion that your brother’s DR amps are worth it or not really. Do you feel like you need to get the DR2 or are the difference noticeable but it’s okay just to stick with the XPA2? I will also chime in as I personally went from a XPA-2 G2 to the DR-2. When I did the "upgrade" I was running a Marantz AV8802A, and honestly did not hear much if any difference between the DR-2 and the XPA-2. Mostly the same things the OP has posted earlier. It was more silent than the XPA-2 and the XPA-2 seemed ever so slightly a warmer sounding amp. Of course the DR-2 is a much cooler amp and much much lighter. I have not noticed the power issues, but I also run my DR-2 on a dedicated 20A line so there are no lights to dim out. But since the amp swap I have also swapped out the AV8802A for the RMC-1. And the RMC-1 with it's fully balanced signal sounds amazing with the DR-2. The DR-2 is just so fast and the bass is so impactful with the RMC-1. And of course its dead silent on the fully balanced path. I do wish I had the XPA-2 G2 to test out on the RMC-1 though. My basic summary of the two amps would be the DR-2 is not worth the upgrade from a XPA-2 G2. Not that the DR-2 is bad, it is not. It is a better amp than the XPA-2, but the XPA-2 is just a solid amp that the small delta in performance is not worth the $1600 to buy the DR-2 then go through the trouble of selling the XPA-2. But if you have a fully balanced pre/pro (XMC-1/2 etc) then the DR-2 just pairs so well with that processor it may just be worth the upgrade. I’ve got the XPA2-gen3. Have always wondered if there was any big difference in DR2 as well. I figured if I do upgrade, I may experiment with Tubes or try those Emotiva Class D mono blocks. |
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Post by brutiarti on Dec 28, 2020 14:39:51 GMT -5
I have an XPA-2 gen2 but I replaced it with a Bryston 4B3. The xpa-2 is a really good amp but the Bryston sounds better to my ears. Maybe because the amp is dual mono?? I don’t really know
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Post by creimes on Dec 28, 2020 16:46:50 GMT -5
I have an XPA-2 gen2 but I replaced it with a Bryston 4B3. The xpa-2 is a really good amp but the Bryston sounds better to my ears. Maybe because the amp is dual mono?? I don’t really know Probably because it cost more  |
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Post by brutiarti on Dec 28, 2020 20:10:54 GMT -5
I have an XPA-2 gen2 but I replaced it with a Bryston 4B3. The xpa-2 is a really good amp but the Bryston sounds better to my ears. Maybe because the amp is dual mono?? I don’t really know Probably because it cost more That sound about right 🤣 |
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Post by leonski on Dec 29, 2020 2:33:19 GMT -5
don't forget the Bryston 20 year warranty. For the long-term user or someone not prone to 'upgrade fever' a reasonable trade for the additional cost.
Bryston acts aggressively to protect dealers so watch resales on Brtyston amps and confirm SR# and receipt before purchase.
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. And they bought Theta. 
