Side-By-Side Shootout Between XPA-2 Gen 2 vs XPA DR-2...

[chops]

So this past Thursday evening, my brother unexpectedly brought over his DR-2 for me to try out in my system for a while as he just got himself a tube integrated to play around with for a bit in his system.

A "full review" will come later, but I would like to touch on a just a few things so far that I think I have picked up on. With the holiday festivities and all, I really haven't been able to just sit and listen for any decent periods of time to really "listen". So this little preview will be quick and ugly.

First off, a couple of pics...

Taken the evening of the swap...


Taken today after cleaning up the kitty toys and dusting...


Bass:
One of the first things I noticed with the DR-2 is that it seems that the bass might be a touch more controlled, allowing a small amount of extra detail to come through. This also gives the slight impression of a little leaner bass, but it's really not. And this is why I always strongly urge people to send high level singles to their subwoofers via the speaker outputs of their main amp rather than just sending a low-level preamp signal. If you have resolving, high quality subwoofers, you CAN and WILL hear the sound signature of the main amp come through the subs as well, allowing the subs to better match the main loudspeakers.

Midrange:
Midrange is detailed and open, though it seems as though the DR-2 lacks just a touch of "body" to vocals and some instruments. It's not lean or lacking in anyway, and if I didn't have another amp to compare it to, I probably wouldn't even pick up on it. But since I have the XPA-2 Gen 2 sitting right here, there is definitely a little bit less lower midrange energy with vocals mostly. 

Treble:
I would say that treble presence, accuracy and detail are pretty much on par with each amp. Both offer airy, detailed and refined treble extension throughout. Not bright, not edgy, not dry, certainly not fatiguing. Just clean, natural, pleasant and open. 

Soundstage & Imaging:
From what I have heard thus far in the short amount of time over the past few crazy days, I would say both amps are pretty much identical, with possibly a slight edge going to the DR-2 with possibly slightly greater separation and space. As far as width, depth and height, I really can't hear much of a difference between the two.

Dynamic Range - Headroom:
My Martin Logan SL3's are 4 ohms nominal with a peak of around 15 ohms and a minimum of 1.5 ohms. The Gen 2 offers up 550 watts @ 4 ohms and the DR-2 offers up 800 watts @ 4 ohms. Both are more than enough for my SL3's. Both sound equally powerful, effortless and have the same amount of slam and dynamics capability in my system/room. Both amps are dead silent, but here's the weird thing about that... The DR-2 seems to have a little bit blacker blacks between quiet passages than the Gen 2, which I find odd. As I said, both amps are completely dead silent in operation, but the DR-2 for some reason gives the impression of being slightly more silent with music, vocals with both singing and speech. Weird. 

Efficiency:
This last one is very obvious... The DR-2 pretty much remains cold, or at least room temperature during operation. The night we hooked up the DR-2, we had it blasting some pretty demanding much for about a solid hour, and it barely got warm to the touch whereas the Gen 2 gets decently warm, but never hot. No matter how hard I have ever pushed the Gen 2, even for 3 or 4 hours straight, you could always put your hand on the lid and keep it there without the fear of getting burnt. Heck, the Gen 2 never even got as hot as the Schiit Aegir amps I had while they sat at idle. 

And speaking of efficiency, one thing I noticed right away while pushing the DR-2 that first night is how its power supply operates. It reminds me of the old Magnetic Field amplifiers from Carver. When there's heavy loud bass and drums, the DR-2 makes the lights in the room blink and dim with the power demands. The Gen 2 with its traditional PS and large bank of caps doesn't do that at all. 


So that's my findings this far. Maybe if things start to slow down a bit in the next couple of weeks that allow me to sit and listen more, I'll be able to do a bit more thorough review of these two amps. Right now however, I would be perfectly happy with either amp in my system. Though, where things stand at the moment with my current findings, I'm not exactly sure if the extra amount of gains/improvements/differences I'm getting from the DR-2 is worth the extra cash over say my Gen 2 or the current Gen 3 (which I have not heard at all). 

Till next time... 

[SteveH]

Cats and electricity always bring this to mind 🤣🤣

[leonski]

I just have a few notes on the above 'review'.

First? Amplifier capability plays HEAVILY into the listeining experience with 'Stats. The impedance minima is usually accompanied by a huge phase shift which puts the 'hurt' to any but the most capable amplifiers.
This is including the fact that power needs in the last octave or more are really not that high. High phase angles suck the life out of less capable amps.

And do NOT worry about efficiency. ML calls the speaker 89db......But that is 2 watts at 4 ohms, the speakers stated impedance. So sensitivity is really 86db......
What that means is that no matter how you slice it, from ELECTRIC PLUG to SPEAKER you are certain no more than 3% or maybe 4% efficient.

I'm glad the Kitty enjoys posing for photos. so many of them dash when the camera comes out. Maybe it's the flash some use? \

I suspect some of the 'things' you hear are SPEAKER LIMITED. That's why many reviewers have not only the 'reference speaker' of their system, but maybe a couple MORE pair which they rotate in so
they get a more completei idea of just what they ARE listening to and for.

cheers.

A question, though? How many dedicated circuits do you have? Are they 20 amp for those high powered amps?

Report back after you give a good 'sit and listen'.....Enjouy a beer or a scotch.

[chops]

Dec 26, 2020 20:54:11 GMT -5 leonski said:

I just have a few notes on the above 'review'.

First? Amplifier capability plays HEAVILY into the listeining experience with 'Stats. The impedance minima is usually accompanied by a huge phase shift which puts the 'hurt' to any but the most capable amplifiers.
This is including the fact that power needs in the last octave or more are really not that high. High phase angles suck the life out of less capable amps.

And do NOT worry about efficiency. ML calls the speaker 89db......But that is 2 watts at 4 ohms, the speakers stated impedance. So sensitivity is really 86db......
What that means is that no matter how you slice it, from ELECTRIC PLUG to SPEAKER you are certain no more than 3% or maybe 4% efficient.

I'm glad the Kitty enjoys posing for photos. so many of them dash when the camera comes out. Maybe it's the flash some use? \

I suspect some of the 'things' you hear are SPEAKER LIMITED. That's why many reviewers have not only the 'reference speaker' of their system, but maybe a couple MORE pair which they rotate in so
they get a more completei idea of just what they ARE listening to and for.

cheers.

A question, though? How many dedicated circuits do you have? Are they 20 amp for those high powered amps?

Report back after you give a good 'sit and listen'.....Enjouy a beer or a scotch.

For starters, I wasn't talking about speaker efficiency. Two, I'm well aware of the impedance swings and phase shifts of my speakers and how they interact with an amplifier. And third, the last thing my sub/speaker system is is "limited" in any way.

In short, the "things I hear" are differences between two different amplifiers, nothing more. Everything in my system has and will remain the same. The point of this thread is comparing two amplifiers to one another, not trying to find the best combination of speaker and amplifier of one given amplifier. 

[leonski]

First? Your 'review' is ALL system dependent.
SAME amps with different speakers and different front end may result in very different outcome. I DO think the amount of power you have on tap IS appropriate to the fairly low sensitivity of the MLs.

And efficiency IS a red herring. The ENTIRE chain from plug to output at speaker is Seldom higher than 5% or so....maybe 6% with very high sensitvity speakers.
So what if an amp is 'high efficiency' or not? It really doesn't change the outcome.

I drug speaker sensitivity, NOT efficiency (2 ifferent but related things) in order to straighten out just how much power you may or may not need. I'm used to very low sensitivity speakers having owned
panels (Maggies) for maybe 40 years.

And yes, read some reviews. Virtaully ALL reviewers will use multiple speakers with the amp under test.

And again? write MORE after maybe 20 hours or so PER amp. Try, of course, to use same material for 'apples to apples'.

All speakers and systems are LIMITED in some fashion. I've heard Pipe Organ in the space it was installed in and used for a couple hundred years. NOTHING I've ever heard compares. From 180,000$ Focal Grand Utopia to
the latest from anybody driven by anything at the show. Even the Pass MONOblocks it would take a forklift to move.

Don't take my comments TOO harshly. I'm essentially on your side. You are taking the time to do something many people can't afford (like ME!)

Also? 2 more things......How much wall power and circuits do you have? And has the room been treated in any fashion?

What's the name of the Orange cat? I had one like that, and he was one of the best cats I ever came across.

[chops]

Dec 27, 2020 1:24:04 GMT -5 leonski said:

First? Your 'review' is ALL system dependent.
SAME amps with different speakers and different front end may result in very different outcome. I DO think the amount of power you have on tap IS appropriate to the fairly low sensitivity of the MLs.

And efficiency IS a red herring. The ENTIRE chain from plug to output at speaker is Seldom higher than 5% or so....maybe 6% with very high sensitvity speakers.
So what if an amp is 'high efficiency' or not? It really doesn't change the outcome.

I drug speaker sensitivity, NOT efficiency (2 ifferent but related things) in order to straighten out just how much power you may or may not need. I'm used to very low sensitivity speakers having owned
panels (Maggies) for maybe 40 years.

And yes, read some reviews. Virtaully ALL reviewers will use multiple speakers with the amp under test.

And again? write MORE after maybe 20 hours or so PER amp. Try, of course, to use same material for 'apples to apples'.

All speakers and systems are LIMITED in some fashion. I've heard Pipe Organ in the space it was installed in and used for a couple hundred years. NOTHING I've ever heard compares. From 180,000$ Focal Grand Utopia to
the latest from anybody driven by anything at the show. Even the Pass MONOblocks it would take a forklift to move.

Don't take my comments TOO harshly. I'm essentially on your side. You are taking the time to do something many people can't afford (like ME!)

Also? 2 more things......How much wall power and circuits do you have? And has the room been treated in any fashion?

What's the name of the Orange cat? I had one like that, and he was one of the best cats I ever came across.

Of course my review is system dependent. What do I care what either of these amps sound like on any other speakers that I don't ever plan on using in my system? I don't think I ever claimed to be a professional reviewer. Your point is totally moot in this case. And I have also used Maggies in the past, so quite aware of them as well.

Yes, when compared to a large powerful instrument like a pipe organ or live rock concert, all loudspeaker systems are limited. I'm pretty certain you know exactly what I meant when I said my sub/speaker system wasn't limited in any way. Don't take my stuff out of context and use some common sense. I would imagine any normal competent person would take what I said as the system being able to cover the full audio range from 20 Hz to 20 kHz for the most part, at decently loud volume levels for in a home system. NOT recreating a full-on pipe organ in my living room. Again, your point is totally moot.

And just so you're aware, I grew up working on, tuning, voicing, repairing, and installing pipe organs with my father and his business. We even designed and built our own 19 rank pipe organ in our own house. If anyone knows what a pipe organ sounds like in person, it would be me. I've heard plenty, anywhere from small 5 rank organs all the way up to 117 rank organs. So I'm safe to say that I never once claimed my system could faithfully reproduce something like that to full scale. But I can also tell you, it does a damn good convincing job of it.  

I can tell you right now, the rate this thread is already going, I highly doubt there will be a follow-up review. In fact, I'm pretty sure of it.

[audiobill]

Thank you for your effort in writing this up.

But I'm shocked to learn you hear differences among Emotiva amps! With @keithl watching over "accuracy" how can these products sound different on his watch?

Which one is more "accurate"?

[klinemj]

Dec 26, 2020 14:25:52 GMT -5 chops said:

I would say that treble presence, accuracy and detail are pretty much on par with each amp. Both offer airy, detailed and refined treble extension throughout. Not bright, not edgy, not dry, certainly not fatiguing. Just clean, natural, pleasant and open.

I enjoyed your preliminary review and look forward to more. For a preliminary review, it's got a lot of detail!

I had an XPA-2 Gen 1, and I've had very limited listening to the XPA-2 Gen 2 and DR-2 (only at Emotiva HQ). I found the Gen 1 had a tiny bit of harshness in the treble. I wouldn't call is sibilance...just a slight edge. In fact, my whole system at the time seemed to emphasize it, including my Paradigm Studio 100's I had at the time. I set about taming that and ended up changing out the speakers, the amps, and even source.

For me, the speakers were a big first step (to my Maggies I now have), but I could still hear it. A switch from the XPA-2 to my Hypex nCores was a big step, and the move to my Prima Luna tube and was the final.

I'd be really curious to see what you think swapping in the tube amp your brother is playing with to compare to at least 1 of the Emotiva amps to see what you think about the mids/highs. (Which tube amp is it, but the way?)

Mark

[tchaik]

Dec 27, 2020 8:33:03 GMT -5 audiobill said:

Thank you for your effort in writing this up.

But I'm shocked to learn you hear differences among Emotiva amps! With @keithl watching over "accuracy" how can these products sound different on his watch?

Which one is more "accurate"?

cute line....... but still........ "setting up a straw man in order to knock it down"

[audiobill]

A reasonable question, imo, given the apparent primacy of "accuracy" @keithl has gone to great pains, many times,  to instruct us on.

[brutiarti]

Dec 27, 2020 8:33:03 GMT -5 audiobill said:

Which one is more "accurate"?

The newest product of course...

[leonski]

The whole 'accuracy' thing hinges, IMO, on what is used as a reference.

For someone who spends a lot of time going TO and Listening TO Live Music it's one thing.
For someone who has been around the audio world for decades and seldom if Ever hears a Live perforance,
something else entirely.

I was at the county fair a few years ago and heard a band. Bu they were somehow WRONG. The PACE and RHYTHM were wrong.
It was like they were standing in ankle deep MUD. I just coudn't get into these guys. Very good musicianship and a tight group.
Just no 'drive'.......Overall I think they crowd enjoyed the performance.

Different folks listen for different things and YOUR accuracy my not be MINE or even 'chops'........

Chops didn't like my 'use multiple speakers remark. But that is really the hinge of this. Each amp may or may not be better or worse, depending on the partnering gear.
And I have YEET to hear about one of the more important aspects of this.....the ROOM which is certainly most of what you are hearing. Abundent clean power is also on the list.

[leonski]

Dec 27, 2020 8:33:03 GMT -5 audiobill said:

Thank you for your effort in writing this up.

But I'm shocked to learn you hear differences among Emotiva amps! With @keithl watching over "accuracy" how can these products sound different on his watch?

Which one is more "accurate"?

Far more to accuracy than the 'mere' reproduction of a given waveform.   

[Lsc]

Thank you for sharing. I had the XPA 2 gen2 and an XPR2 but not the DR2 so this was not only informative but pretty much on point of what I would have predicted for the DR2.

Is your DAC / preamp fully balanced? If not I wonder if having a fully balanced front end would push the DR2 ahead a little more.

I replaced my XPR2 with a fully balanced amp, ATI 4003 and with the XMC2 being fully balanced, I felt the ATI was a significant upgrade from the XPR2.

[leonski]

Dec 27, 2020 15:37:54 GMT -5 Lsc said:

Thank you for sharing. I had the XPA 2 gen2 and an XPR2 but not the DR2 so this was not only informative but pretty much on point of what I would have predicted for the DR2.

Is your DAC / preamp fully balanced? If not I wonder if having a fully balanced front end would push the DR2 ahead a little more.

I replaced my XPR2 with a fully balanced amp, ATI 4003 and with the XMC2 being fully balanced, I felt the ATI was a significant upgrade from the XPR2.

You MIGHT notice an improvment if the ENTIRE signal chain is balanced from source ON......Other than that?    IMO, swapping back and forth may have consequence.  

I don't know that I'd base a final decision on 'balanced' or not....Unless MAYBE everything else were balanced as well.   

I have gear with balanced connections that ISN'T really internally balanced.   But it does make for an easy, quiet and secure connection.  

[chops]

Dec 27, 2020 15:37:54 GMT -5 Lsc said:

Thank you for sharing. I had the XPA 2 gen2 and an XPR2 but not the DR2 so this was not only informative but pretty much on point of what I would have predicted for the DR2.

Is your DAC / preamp fully balanced? If not I wonder if having a fully balanced front end would push the DR2 ahead a little more.

I replaced my XPR2 with a fully balanced amp, ATI 4003 and with the XMC2 being fully balanced, I felt the ATI was a significant upgrade from the XPR2.

Yes, my system is fully balanced from source to amp.

[Lsc]

Dec 27, 2020 16:00:59 GMT -5 leonski said:

Dec 27, 2020 15:37:54 GMT -5 Lsc said:

Thank you for sharing. I had the XPA 2 gen2 and an XPR2 but not the DR2 so this was not only informative but pretty much on point of what I would have predicted for the DR2.

Is your DAC / preamp fully balanced? If not I wonder if having a fully balanced front end would push the DR2 ahead a little more.

I replaced my XPR2 with a fully balanced amp, ATI 4003 and with the XMC2 being fully balanced, I felt the ATI was a significant upgrade from the XPR2.

You MIGHT notice an improvment if the ENTIRE signal chain is balanced from source ON......Other than that?    IMO, swapping back and forth may have consequence.  

I don't know that I'd base a final decision on 'balanced' or not....Unless MAYBE everything else were balanced as well.   

I have gear with balanced connections that ISN'T really internally balanced.   But it does make for an easy, quiet and secure connection.  

Yes. I thought I stated my gear. It’s not hypothetical as in if my stuff is balanced - my processor the XMC2 has balanced DACs to the ATI 4003 that’s a balanced amplifier then to my speakers.

Is there something in my gear that I don’t know with respect to it being a fully balanced system?

[chops]

Dec 27, 2020 13:59:57 GMT -5 leonski said:

Chops didn't like my 'use multiple speakers remark. But that is really the hinge of this. Each amp may or may not be better or worse, depending on the partnering gear.
And I have YEET to hear about one of the more important aspects of this.....the ROOM which is certainly most of what you are hearing. Abundent clean power is also on the list.

I didn't like the remark because it's a moot point. It's irrelevant in this situation.

And no, you have "YEET" (which isn't even a word) to get an answer from me, because I don't plan on answering you.

Thanks to your nonsense in this thread, I have lost all interest to continue on in a review of this amp in this thread/forum. From here on out, all findings are for mine and my brother's own curiosity.  

[chops]

Dec 27, 2020 16:11:55 GMT -5 Lsc said:

Is there something in my gear that I don’t know with respect to it being a fully balanced system?

I would take anything he says with a large grain of salt.

[ttocs]

Sorry chops, I was hoping the dust would settle so you could express your thoughts about what you heard in your system in your room with your ears. It's sad when we can't share openly.
Scott