DYohn
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Posts: 18,494
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Post by DYohn on Jun 20, 2021 8:59:42 GMT -5
re: Wavelength Cardinals. I don't know or care what some reviewer has said about them. I owned a set for 5 years and they sounded super good. Dynamic, detailed, warm and sweet. Replaced them when I found a Shindo Cortese as that was my dream amp at the time.
As to the Monads, I think a set can be had brand new for around $18K. I heard them at BK's showroom in Boulder CO (driving some Audio Notes) and would have bought them on the spot if I hadn't already purchased the Shindo. Excellent amps. I use Butler in my HT now (5150).
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Post by leonski on Jun 20, 2021 14:53:38 GMT -5
Just looked at CARVER tube gear. The Crimson 275 is very competitive PRICE WISE, though I don't know anything about th KT120 output tubes.....
Claims are made which verge on vintage Carver, while I didn't poke thru enough to find any specs......
But for the price / power? At about 20$ per watt? Very good indeed.
But again? Where to hear 'em? The 75 a side opens up a LOT of speakers unavailable to 10 or 20 watt and UNDER amps.
I'll look some more and see if any patterns pop out in reviews? Stuff like Bias problems or system dependent NOISE?
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Post by leonski on Jun 20, 2021 15:02:56 GMT -5
re: Wavelength Cardinals. I don't know or care what some reviewer has said about them. I owned a set for 5 years and they sounded super good. Dynamic, detailed, warm and sweet. Replaced them when I found a Shindo Cortese as that was my dream amp at the time. As to the Monads, I think a set can be had brand new for around $18K. I heard them at BK's showroom in Boulder CO (driving some Audio Notes) and would have bought them on the spot if I hadn't already purchased the Shindo. Excellent amps. I use Butler in my HT now (5150). Personally? The bench data is one of the FEW things I trust about any review. I'd TEND to agree that reviewers don't listen the way many others do......not for the same thing OR the same way..... It is even POSSIBLE that somebody happy with 'em would have the experience RUINED by reading the bench data from Stereophile! Not that it matters? But my old Carver Cube was 1/2% distortion. Never bothered me, even at very high levels...Amp ladder display ALL lit up! At this level? Matching is VERY important, and you could say critical. My panels will work with darn near anything that'll drive the power at 4 and not worry about the finer points. But some speakers? Work best with a good listen first. Some measureables may be used to 'narrow the field' before going to the review phase. Maybe the Carver / Klipsch combo is golden? 18K a pair? WAY OVER my limit, even in fantasy land.... |
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 21, 2021 6:56:31 GMT -5
re: Wavelength Cardinals. I don't know or care what some reviewer has said about them. I owned a set for 5 years and they sounded super good. Dynamic, detailed, warm and sweet. Replaced them when I found a Shindo Cortese as that was my dream amp at the time. As to the Monads, I think a set can be had brand new for around $18K. I heard them at BK's showroom in Boulder CO (driving some Audio Notes) and would have bought them on the spot if I hadn't already purchased the Shindo. Excellent amps. I use Butler in my HT now (5150). Personally?   The bench data is one of the FEW things I trust about any review.   I'd TEND to agree that reviewers don't listen the way many others do......not for the same thing OR the same way..... It is even POSSIBLE that somebody happy with 'em would have the experience RUINED by reading the bench data from Stereophile!    Not that it matters?  But my old Carver Cube was 1/2% distortion.   Never bothered me, even at very high levels...Amp ladder display ALL lit up! At this level?  Matching is VERY important, and you could say critical.  My panels will work with darn near anything that'll drive the power at 4 and not worry about the finer points.   But some speakers?   Work best with a good listen first.  Some measureables may be used to 'narrow the field' before going to the review phase. Maybe the Carver / Klipsch combo is golden?   18K a pair?   WAY OVER my limit, even in fantasy land.... We CAN agree on something I see 💰 |
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Post by brubacca on Jun 21, 2021 9:31:30 GMT -5
A friend just got a Decware SE34I.2 (Rachel) amp. He ordered it in November and got it in early June.
It sounds fantastic. He is using with some Focal Aria 906 speakers.
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Post by leonski on Jun 21, 2021 16:24:52 GMT -5
Aprox power of amp and sensitivity of speaker?
Never mind! 6 watts and about 90db sensitivity. Depending on size of space, it may work....and also what the owner 'expects'.....
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Post by leonski on Jun 21, 2021 16:29:07 GMT -5
Personally? The bench data is one of the FEW things I trust about any review. I'd TEND to agree that reviewers don't listen the way many others do......not for the same thing OR the same way..... It is even POSSIBLE that somebody happy with 'em would have the experience RUINED by reading the bench data from Stereophile! Not that it matters? But my old Carver Cube was 1/2% distortion. Never bothered me, even at very high levels...Amp ladder display ALL lit up! At this level? Matching is VERY important, and you could say critical. My panels will work with darn near anything that'll drive the power at 4 and not worry about the finer points. But some speakers? Work best with a good listen first. Some measureables may be used to 'narrow the field' before going to the review phase. Maybe the Carver / Klipsch combo is golden? 18K a pair? WAY OVER my limit, even in fantasy land.... We CAN agree on something I see 💰 Accidents happen...... |
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Post by SteveH on Jun 21, 2021 16:46:27 GMT -5
Always love the look of Tubes plus they have a high Wife Approval Factor! Perhaps it is the glowing aura of the phallus shape that entices the WAF 🤣🤣🤣 |
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Post by leonski on Jun 21, 2021 17:38:36 GMT -5
Steve? You and 405 need an offline discussion about Freud and Groucho.
Sometimes a Cigar is JUST a cigar!
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Post by audiobill on Jun 22, 2021 5:28:59 GMT -5
Quote from Stereophile - Does Professor Grausamkeit sound like anyone we know?
"I am not a fan of that amp designer who promoted his products by pointing a condescending finger while scolding audiophiles, like errant children, for preferring their records to sound "pleasant" rather than "accurate."
He reminds me of my least favorite teacher, Professor Grausamkeit, who was just like that and said similar things. Every time I smarted back, "Accurate to what?" he'd whack me with a wooden yardstick.
Grausamkeit would twist my ear painfully while scolding me but would never explain what "accurate" sounded like or why it didn't sound pleasant. Best I could figure, he meant gray and stern, like him, or bland and flavorless like our school lunches. Professor G was constantly reminding us, "Pleasure-seeking is a congenital defect that defines the ignorant classes.""
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ttocs
Global Moderator 
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,170
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Post by ttocs on Jun 22, 2021 6:45:25 GMT -5
Quote from Stereophile - Does Professor Grausamkeit sound like anyone we know?
"I am not a fan of that amp designer who promoted his products by pointing a condescending finger while scolding audiophiles, like errant children, for preferring their records to sound "pleasant" rather than "accurate."
He reminds me of my least favorite teacher, Professor Grausamkeit, who was just like that and said similar things. Every time I smarted back, "Accurate to what?" he'd whack me with a wooden yardstick.
Grausamkeit would twist my ear painfully while scolding me but would never explain what "accurate" sounded like or why it didn't sound pleasant. Best I could figure, he meant gray and stern, like him, or bland and flavorless like our school lunches. Professor G was constantly reminding us, "Pleasure-seeking is a congenital defect that defines the ignorant classes."" I guess I never understood the definition of "ignorant", nor that I was in that class. That's a very loaded definition he's got there. |
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 22, 2021 7:43:46 GMT -5
What a YAWN 🥱 this little chat is….(just get an amp. and forget it)
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 22, 2021 7:47:31 GMT -5
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Post by leonski on Jun 22, 2021 17:25:18 GMT -5
What a YAWN 🥱 this little chat is….(just get an amp. and forget it) I will respectfully ask you to take your comments elsewhere....... the choice of amp is critical in some cases...Like with very high sensitivity speakers and when dealing with tube gear which has at least as many choices as a good Wine Shop. Even if you limit yourself to a SINGLE tube type? Half a dozen choices from NOS to new, Russian production. I'll admit that Cost Per Watt is NO guarantee of anything, good OR bad. But the Decware caught my eye by being the ONLY amp I've ever seen with a lifetime guarantee. The only fly in the ointment? The owner of Decware practices continueous PRODUCT improvement which means any amp you get today will only be 'current' (no pun intended) until the next major revision appears..... |
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 22, 2021 18:22:51 GMT -5
What a YAWN 🥱 this little chat is….(just get an amp. and forget it) I will respectfully ask you to take your comments elsewhere....... the choice of amp is critical in some cases...Like with very high sensitivity speakers and when dealing with tube gear which has at least as many choices as a good Wine Shop. Even if you limit yourself to a SINGLE tube type?   Half a dozen choices from NOS to new, Russian production.   I'll admit that Cost Per Watt is NO guarantee of anything, good OR bad.  But the Decware caught my eye by being the ONLY amp I've ever seen with a lifetime guarantee.   The only fly in the ointment?   The owner of Decware practices continueous PRODUCT improvement which means any amp you get today will only be 'current' (no pun intended) until the next major revision appears..... My apologies could you repeat that please….I fell asleep 💤 😴 in the middle of it! |
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Post by housetech on Jun 22, 2021 20:08:00 GMT -5
I know one thing about many reviewers- those BIG ADS next to the review is paying their salary.
btw DYohn's Butler 5150 amp is a hell of a value for what you get, not cheap but a great value. (can I come over and play?)
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 23, 2021 9:06:58 GMT -5
I know one thing about many reviewers- those BIG ADS next to the review is paying their salary. btw DYohn's Butler 5150 amp is a hell of a value for what you get, not cheap but a great value. (can I come over and play?) I’m not a tube fan, but that aside I found the 5150 to be the best put together multi channel tube amp. I’ve seen to date ( If you’re into such things). And the glass vented and protected inside the box where it belongs. Competitively priced with units of power in that range |
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DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,494
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Post by DYohn on Jun 23, 2021 10:28:37 GMT -5
The 5150 sounds fantastic. No offense to Emotiva, but it replaces an XPA5 and the difference was major. Much more open and transparent sounding with less high-end edge, so to speak, with all the same support equipment and speakers around it.
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Post by LuisV on Jun 23, 2021 11:14:14 GMT -5
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,274
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Post by KeithL on Jun 23, 2021 11:33:56 GMT -5
Just for the record... in case anyone is confused... the Butler 5150 is a HYBRID amplifier... it has driver tubes... driving a solid state output stage. It looks like it's well built... and $3000 for 150 watts x 5 is not unreasonable.
Although I do find the idea of lighting tubes with blue LEDS to be annoying... tubes are supposed to glow orange... which they do all by themselves. It is interesting that they "bias the twin triode Tube Drivers to a consistent, near-saturated or overload condition" in order to get "greatly expanded dynamics, punch and presence from naturally produced vacuum tube harmonics". I give them credit for being honest that their design goal is to deliver "tube sound" - while avoiding the need for output transformers.
I would also suggest reading the old AES paper they reference - which provides excellent background information and perspective (https://butleraudio.com/tubesvstrans1.html). But do read it thoroughly and carefully - and note how they discuss differences in sound during normal operation and during overload conditions. (And remember that the paper was written at a time when most people owned relatively low-powered amplifiers that were often subjected to overload.) I know one thing about many reviewers- those BIG ADS next to the review is paying their salary. btw DYohn's Butler 5150 amp is a hell of a value for what you get, not cheap but a great value. (can I come over and play?) I’m not a tube fan, but that aside I found the 5150 to be the best put together multi channel tube amp. I’ve seen to date ( If you’re into such things). And the glass vented and protected inside the box where it belongs. Competitively priced with units of power in that range |
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