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Post by mgbpuff on Jun 23, 2021 11:46:55 GMT -5
How about a Bob Carver amp? Bob's so American it hurts.
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Post by leonski on Jun 23, 2021 13:24:23 GMT -5
The Carver 275 (Crimson?) is priced right. No Question. Don't know that I can use 2x75 with the proposed Klipsch Forte IV speakers....they are about 96db sensitive, per Stereophile.....99db per Klipsch.
I'm also a little offput that Bob sold the entire Enchilada to a 3rd party, who is 'using' the name and is basically a marketing guy.
I'm STILL leaning to the Decware Torii Jr. which is 20x2 and I think uses EL34 output tubes. The potential downside? IF a single output tube goes 'south', you need to purchase a Matched Quad.....You have a single BIAS control and need
to use an external meter. Amp has 2x inputs, switchable, and level controls so matching to a pre should be somewhat easier.....
The Butler is 4$ per watt.......and not a bad deal at that.....
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Post by leonski on Jun 23, 2021 13:27:30 GMT -5
405?
An empty head is not really empty; it is stuffed with rubbish. Hence the difficulty of forcing anything into an empty head.
Eric Hoffer
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jun 23, 2021 14:43:15 GMT -5
Judging an amp on a price per watt basis is not the best way to judge an amp, in my opinion. Indeed it has absolutely nothing to do with how it performs or more importantly how it sounds.  |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jun 23, 2021 14:44:13 GMT -5
And by the way if you can get over the "made in America" bias, Antique Sound Labs amps sound remarkably good and are cheap.
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Post by LuisV on Jun 23, 2021 14:55:58 GMT -5
And by the way if you can get over the "made in America" bias, Antique Sound Labs amps sound remarkably good and are cheap. On a side note, any experience with Primaluna? I've heard nothing but good things about their gear.. |
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 23, 2021 15:05:05 GMT -5
405? An empty head is not really empty; it is stuffed with rubbish. Hence the difficulty of forcing anything into an empty head. Eric Hoffer Oh I still think you’ve got plenty of room in there |
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 23, 2021 15:08:22 GMT -5
Just for the record... in case anyone is confused... the Butler 5150 is a HYBRID amplifier... it has driver tubes... driving a solid state output stage. It looks like it's well built... and $3000 for 150 watts x 5 is not unreasonable.
Although I do find the idea of lighting tubes with blue LEDS to be annoying... tubes are supposed to glow orange... which they do all by themselves. It is interesting that they "bias the twin triode Tube Drivers to a consistent, near-saturated or overload condition" in order to get "greatly expanded dynamics, punch and presence from naturally produced vacuum tube harmonics". I give them credit for being honest that their design goal is to deliver "tube sound" - while avoiding the need for output transformers.
I would also suggest reading the old AES paper they reference - which provides excellent background information and perspective (https://butleraudio.com/tubesvstrans1.html). But do read it thoroughly and carefully - and note how they discuss differences in sound during normal operation and during overload conditions. (And remember that the paper was written at a time when most people owned relatively low-powered amplifiers that were often subjected to overload.) I’m not a tube fan, but that aside I found the 5150 to be the best put together multi channel tube amp. I’ve seen to date ( If you’re into such things). And the glass vented and protected inside the box where it belongs. Competitively priced with units of power in that range All the Hybrid gear I’ve heard to date sound like VERY GOOD solid state gear…..regardless of which side the tubes are on |
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 23, 2021 15:13:41 GMT -5
How about a Bob Carver amp? Bob's so American it hurts. Yeah Mann My “Carver” Sunfire is still chugging away effortlessly (20 and 1/2 this year! |
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Post by audiobill on Jun 23, 2021 15:41:13 GMT -5
Leonski, take a good look at Tubes4hifi/Vacuum Tube Audio amps. No better value, top quality parts, American. Kit or assembled. Great support by Bob Latino. www.tubes4hifi.com/ |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jun 23, 2021 16:56:30 GMT -5
And by the way if you can get over the "made in America" bias, Antique Sound Labs amps sound remarkably good and are cheap. On a side note, any experience with Primaluna? I've heard nothing but good things about their gear.. I have never owned anything from Primaluna and have only heard them at trade shows. Pretty highly regarded. |
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
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Post by ttocs on Jun 23, 2021 17:14:23 GMT -5
My main amps for music are Tubes4hifi M-125 mono amps, they're great and Bob Latino is simply the greatest!
I've been a Carver fan for a long time having owned and known others with amps from different eras over the last 3 decades. A friend of mine has the Raven 350 monos, but he's got speakers I don't like so I don't have a sense about how this amp really does its thing. I've gotten a couple good demos elsewhere, but not under the best circumstances. I will say this, those tubes NEVER get hot!! If I were ever to buy a Carver amp, I would buy some spare parts before they become unavailable, namely, the transformers, because I get the idea that they're still wound by Bob. Bob Carver has had so many "short" runs under different company umbrellas that I don't feel as comfortable with his business model these days.
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Post by audiobill on Jun 23, 2021 19:47:50 GMT -5
In some ways, Carver is the ultimate snakeoil.
Interesting that a Carver acolyte calls out others as such!
Lookin’ at you, 405.
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Post by leonski on Jun 23, 2021 20:20:14 GMT -5
How about a Bob Carver amp? Bob's so American it hurts. Yeah Mann My “Carver” Sunfire is still chugging away effortlessly (20 and 1/2 this year! Carver, I'm told, used devices from International Rectifier. He would have had a choice of Hexfet OR IGBT devices....though I don't know if the RDON of the IGBT would be low enough to sustain a high damping factor. I worked for IR for nearly 2 decades and would NOT use anything they made in a mission critical applicaiton. But that's just ME. |
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Post by leonski on Jun 23, 2021 20:23:36 GMT -5
My main amps for music are Tubes4hifi M-125 mono amps, they're great and Bob is simply the greatest! I've been a Carver fan for a long time having owned and known others with amps from different eras over the last 3 decades. A friend of mine has the Raven 350 monos, but he's got speakers I don't like so I don't have a sense about how this amp really does its thing. I've gotten a couple good demos elsewhere, but not under the best circumstances. I will say this, those tubes NEVER get hot!! If I were ever to buy a Carver amp, I would buy some spare parts before they become unavailable, namely, the transformers, because I get the idea that they're still wound by Bob. Bob Carver has had so many "short" runs under different company umbrellas that I don't feel as comfortable with his business model these days. Carver is in NAME ONLY associated with the 'latest' stuff to bear his name. I'm not certain of the exact relationship....maybe he does what he does best, which is Develop stuff.....but his corportate leadership record is spotty at best. He lost Phase Linear in a DIVORCE. And that was just his FIRST company..... I owned an M400t for over 2 decades and it was FINE. Motor boat like 'putt-putt' and all.... |
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Post by leonski on Jun 23, 2021 20:27:18 GMT -5
405? An empty head is not really empty; it is stuffed with rubbish. Hence the difficulty of forcing anything into an empty head. Eric Hoffer Oh I still think you’ve got plenty of room in there I DO have plenty of room. I ruthlesss discard stuff that is No Longer Working. Ideas and thoughts are constantly TESTED. I hardly SLEEP any more. If YOU went thru a similar process, you'd find room for new ideas and might even learn something. You know? Every time I'm in a Large Crowd.....like hundreds or more persons, I look around and realize that 1/2 of everybody I'm looking at is Below Average. Guess what side of the fence YOU are on? |
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Post by leonski on Jun 23, 2021 20:32:15 GMT -5
One final NOTE on the subject which I started this thread for?
I'm looking at a DECWARE amps of 20x2. Nice ampunt of power for a high sensitivity speaker IF YOU LIKE IT......No amount of power will do if you DON'T.
But ONE problem? Tubes are replaced as a 4-tube set. ALL tubes are biased at the same time with ONE potentiometer. So If ONE tube goes south? you are
in it for a set of 4! I'm not prepared, yet, to look at what it takes to secure 4x EL34 tubes as a 'matched quad'......a frightening thought. Especially if you are drawn to some $$$ NOS tubes.
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Post by audiobill on Jun 23, 2021 20:33:49 GMT -5
Even tiny emotiva realized Carvers hype and bailed…..
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Post by audiobill on Jun 23, 2021 20:35:18 GMT -5
Leonski again look at tubes4hifi, really.
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Post by leonski on Jun 23, 2021 21:11:34 GMT -5
I just wonder about the KIT. Temptation? Yep.
And at the 'upper end' of desired power IF I end up going with the Klipsch Forte IV
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