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Post by garbulky on Jun 21, 2021 14:54:55 GMT -5
Hi all, I want to upgrade my router to take advantage of the prime day deals. I have an AC2600 Motorolla MR2600. I have nearly 40 smart home devices and the problem is that the router routinely loses connection with various smart home devices (though it eventually gets them back). This gets very frustrating especially when you have group routines and notice a few lights are still turned on when they are supposed to be off. Most of my smart home devices are 2.4 ghz. Only the tablets, phones, and two tv streamers connect at higher frequency hich count for about 20% of the devices. The other is that during facetime calls and the like there is some significant interruptions and drop outs. I'm hoping to spend between $200-300. Currently I am looking at Netgear Nighthawk X6s www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-X6S-Smart-Router-R8000P/dp/B01H53WZ20/I am attracted to this opne because it says it supports 55 devices - but I don't know how accurate that is. and Netgear AX6600 (RAX70) www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-8-Stream-Tri-band-Router/dp/B08KTWXCZT/I am attracted to this because it says it is an 8 stream router but doesn't mention number of devices. I have little use for more speed, but it's very important the connection doesn't drop with the large number of devices (40). I am not currently wanting to go for a mesh router. So what would your suggestions be? EDIT: I upgraded to a tp-link ax6000 router and it has not fixed the problem. Next step - mesh |
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 21, 2021 16:07:14 GMT -5
Hi all, I want to upgrade my router to take advantage of the prime day deals. I have an AC2600 Motorolla MR2600. I have nearly 40 smart home devices and the problem is that the router routinely loses connection with various smart home devices (though it eventually gets them back). This gets very frustrating especially when you have group routines and notice a few lights are still turned on when they are supposed to be off. Most of my smart home devices are 2.4 ghz. Only the tablets, phones, and two tv streamers connect at higher frequency hich count for about 20% of the devices. The other is that during facetime calls and the like there is some significant interruptions and drop outs. I'm hoping to spend between $200-300. Currently I am looking at Netgear Nighthawk X6s www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-X6S-Smart-Router-R8000P/dp/B01H53WZ20/I am attracted to this opne because it says it supports 55 devices - but I don't know how accurate that is. and Netgear AX6600 (RAX70) www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-8-Stream-Tri-band-Router/dp/B08KTWXCZT/I am attracted to this because it says it is an 8 stream router but doesn't mention number of devices. I have little use for more speed, but it's very important the connection doesn't drop with the large number of devices (40). I am not currently wanting to go for a mesh router. So what would your suggestions be? I wish I had an answer for you and I will follow this intently! “Router” IS a four letter word…is it not? Currently, I have A Linksys 4350 (I think) with dual antenna and the app. on my phone. Last time I tried to pick somebody’s brain about this at Best Buy I left with no router and more questions than answers. I do believe the integrity of the internet from your provider is more impactful than the router itself |
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Post by routlaw on Jun 21, 2021 16:11:19 GMT -5
I was just researching this sort of thing myself, turns out those Netgear routers receive top reviews from a number of different online entities. I believe its the 6X model is available at Costco for $150.00 which is a great price.
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 21, 2021 16:14:20 GMT -5
Hi all, I want to upgrade my router to take advantage of the prime day deals. I have an AC2600 Motorolla MR2600. I have nearly 40 smart home devices and the problem is that the router routinely loses connection with various smart home devices (though it eventually gets them back). This gets very frustrating especially when you have group routines and notice a few lights are still turned on when they are supposed to be off. Most of my smart home devices are 2.4 ghz. Only the tablets, phones, and two tv streamers connect at higher frequency hich count for about 20% of the devices. The other is that during facetime calls and the like there is some significant interruptions and drop outs. I'm hoping to spend between $200-300. Currently I am looking at Netgear Nighthawk X6s www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-X6S-Smart-Router-R8000P/dp/B01H53WZ20/I am attracted to this opne because it says it supports 55 devices - but I don't know how accurate that is. and Netgear AX6600 (RAX70) www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-8-Stream-Tri-band-Router/dp/B08KTWXCZT/I am attracted to this because it says it is an 8 stream router but doesn't mention number of devices. I have little use for more speed, but it's very important the connection doesn't drop with the large number of devices (40). I am not currently wanting to go for a mesh router. So what would your suggestions be? I wish I had an answer for you and I will follow this intently! “Router” IS a four letter word…is it not? Currently, I have A Linksys 4350 (I think) with dual antenna and the app. on my phone. Last time I tried to pick somebody’s brain about this at Best Buy I left with no router and more questions than answers. I do believe the integrity of the internet from your provider is more impactful than the router itself EA6350. …..(it is) |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 21, 2021 16:35:10 GMT -5
Hi all, I want to upgrade my router to take advantage of the prime day deals. I have an AC2600 Motorolla MR2600. I have nearly 40 smart home devices and the problem is that the router routinely loses connection with various smart home devices (though it eventually gets them back). This gets very frustrating especially when you have group routines and notice a few lights are still turned on when they are supposed to be off. Most of my smart home devices are 2.4 ghz. Only the tablets, phones, and two tv streamers connect at higher frequency hich count for about 20% of the devices. The other is that during facetime calls and the like there is some significant interruptions and drop outs. I'm hoping to spend between $200-300. Currently I am looking at Netgear Nighthawk X6s www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-X6S-Smart-Router-R8000P/dp/B01H53WZ20/I am attracted to this opne because it says it supports 55 devices - but I don't know how accurate that is. and Netgear AX6600 (RAX70) www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-8-Stream-Tri-band-Router/dp/B08KTWXCZT/I am attracted to this because it says it is an 8 stream router but doesn't mention number of devices. I have little use for more speed, but it's very important the connection doesn't drop with the large number of devices (40). I am not currently wanting to go for a mesh router. So what would your suggestions be? I tested quite a few including the Netgears, they were very good for coverage and overall performance. I had a unique requirement in that I wanted to be able to make over 64 DHCP reservations, the Netgear was the only one of the Home / Small Office routers I could find that met that requirement (that however has nothing to do with how well it will perform with a large number of WiFi clients). I didn’t get it because of a limitation in it’s reporting / sorting, but that’s very much something I’m hung up on, and not anything most people consider. Here’s what I wrote about the Netgear I tested. “ Netgear RAX80-100NAS — Very cool looking Nighthawk router — think the Emperor’s ship in Star Wars without the center stabilizer. A winner when it comes to addresses, basically limited by memory, I quit testing at 100 DHCP reservations, which meets my needs. Unfortunately you can’t sort, and you can’t make a dummy table in order, because editing causes it to re-sort. So close as it also has good range. Edit 2020/04/11 — the Netgear Orbi has the same limitations.” So I’d say Netgear is a top contender and it should probably do a good job for you. I bought a Unifi Dream Machine, and a bunch of their other stuff, and like it very much, but the learning curve is high, support not great, and it doesn’t even have WiFi 6 (though one of my APs does). Their management software is awesome, and that’s what was important to me. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Jun 21, 2021 17:05:23 GMT -5
If you're REALLY worried about top speed, and dropouts on things like FaceTime, then use a wire. WiFi is radio... like a walkie-talkie... or your favorite FM station... so it can be interfered with. And, yes, multiple routers, and even routers with multiple antennas, can help a lot. Likewise, it pays to do a survey of your home, and find out the problem areas with weak signals in advance - so you can avoid doing critical stuff at those spots.
While some routers do FAR better than others, and there are all sorts of things you can do to improve the situation, a wired connection is always better and more reliable. And, as someone already commented, the SINGLE BIGGEST FACTOR outside of that is your ISP. Some ISPs are better than others... and, even with a specific provider, you will find the SERVICE to be far better in some locations than others... You will also find that service slowdowns and outages are far more common at certain times of day (like when everyone in your neighborhood watches a movie after dinner). Note that FAST service, and even RELIABLE service, are not the same thing as SERVICE THAT HAS NO OR FEW DROPOUTS. (Some very fast networks still have lots of dropouts... which won't matter if you're downloading a file but will sure play havoc with an overseas Skype call.)
Routers, especially smaller ones, are also subject to a variety of "unfortunate occurrences" like corrupt routing tables, filled DHCP allocations, and fragmented caches... Because of all this it often helps to reboot your routers occasionally. (Or at least reboot your router at the first time that something odd is going on.)
There's also another little matter that involves the design of the actual products you're using and how they're connected together. Well designed network interactions include both redundancy and feedback. So, for example, with a WELL DESIGNED network-controlled light bulb, the control center will send the command for the bulb to turn ON... Then the bulb will REPLY with an acknowledgement that the command was received... And a status report that the bulb is now ON... (And the controller will send the command again if it fails to receive the proper reply.)
In general "Smart Home" devices shouldn't require much bandwidth. (All they do is exchange relatively short messages... so, as long as none of those messages actually gets lost, they should be OK.)
Unfortunately nobody much bothers to spell out how they do this... or if they actually verify reception... and it doesn't get mentioned in most reviews either... (But you might find at least some info about it if you look carefully.) Another factor is the layout (topology) of your network. For example, if you have a server which you use to stream 4k movies, which you usually watch in two specific rooms... Consider connecting that server and the clients in those rooms to their own separate switch (a nice fast one)... Then you can run a single line from that switch back to your cable modem... That way the heavy traffic from your movies will go through the switch... but NOT through your cable modem while you're trying to FaceTime over its Internet connection. |
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Post by garbulky on Jun 21, 2021 17:13:39 GMT -5
Hi all, I want to upgrade my router to take advantage of the prime day deals. I have an AC2600 Motorolla MR2600. I have nearly 40 smart home devices and the problem is that the router routinely loses connection with various smart home devices (though it eventually gets them back). This gets very frustrating especially when you have group routines and notice a few lights are still turned on when they are supposed to be off. Most of my smart home devices are 2.4 ghz. Only the tablets, phones, and two tv streamers connect at higher frequency hich count for about 20% of the devices. The other is that during facetime calls and the like there is some significant interruptions and drop outs. I'm hoping to spend between $200-300. Currently I am looking at Netgear Nighthawk X6s www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-X6S-Smart-Router-R8000P/dp/B01H53WZ20/I am attracted to this opne because it says it supports 55 devices - but I don't know how accurate that is. and Netgear AX6600 (RAX70) www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-8-Stream-Tri-band-Router/dp/B08KTWXCZT/I am attracted to this because it says it is an 8 stream router but doesn't mention number of devices. I have little use for more speed, but it's very important the connection doesn't drop with the large number of devices (40). I am not currently wanting to go for a mesh router. So what would your suggestions be? I tested quite a few including the Netgears, they were very good for coverage and overall performance. I had a unique requirement in that I wanted to be able to make over 64 DHCP reservations, the Netgear was the only one of the Home / Small Office routers I could find that met that requirement (that however has nothing to do with how well it will perform with a large number of WiFi clients). I didn’t get it because of a limitation in it’s reporting / sorting, but that’s very much something I’m hung up on, and not anything most people consider. Here’s what I wrote about the Netgear I tested. “ Netgear RAX80-100NAS — Very cool looking Nighthawk router — think the Emperor’s ship in Star Wars without the center stabilizer. A winner when it comes to addresses, basically limited by memory, I quit testing at 100 DHCP reservations, which meets my needs. Unfortunately you can’t sort, and you can’t make a dummy table in order, because editing causes it to re-sort. So close as it also has good range. Edit 2020/04/11 — the Netgear Orbi has the same limitations.” So I’d say Netgear is a top contender and it should probably do a good job for you. I bought a Ubiquity Dream Machine, and a bunch of their other stuff, and like it very much, but the learning curve is high, support not great, and it doesn’t even have WiFi 6 (though one of my APs does). Their management software is awesome, and that’s what was important to me. Hi thanks for your feedback. Okay, so when you say DHCP reservations are you talking about it was able to connect with over 64 devices stably? Because that sounds really good to me. What is this sorting? What's the general point of it. One big requirement for me is that if the power fails and later comes back on, or if the router is unplugged and replugged, it needs to be able to recconect to all the devices automatically without intervention. Do you think sorting affects that (for my use). Also which netgear do you think I should get? The Nighthawk X6x or the Netgear RAX70 (AX6600) or your tested one - RAX-80 -100NAS. Also, is there an advantage of going from dual band to triple band? |
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Post by BigE on Jun 21, 2021 17:43:27 GMT -5
Hi all, I want to upgrade my router to take advantage of the prime day deals. I have an AC2600 Motorolla MR2600. I have nearly 40 smart home devices and the problem is that the router routinely loses connection with various smart home devices (though it eventually gets them back). This gets very frustrating especially when you have group routines and notice a few lights are still turned on when they are supposed to be off. Most of my smart home devices are 2.4 ghz. Only the tablets, phones, and two tv streamers connect at higher frequency hich count for about 20% of the devices. The other is that during facetime calls and the like there is some significant interruptions and drop outs. I'm hoping to spend between $200-300. Currently I am looking at Netgear Nighthawk X6s www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-X6S-Smart-Router-R8000P/dp/B01H53WZ20/I am attracted to this opne because it says it supports 55 devices - but I don't know how accurate that is. and Netgear AX6600 (RAX70) www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-8-Stream-Tri-band-Router/dp/B08KTWXCZT/I am attracted to this because it says it is an 8 stream router but doesn't mention number of devices. I have little use for more speed, but it's very important the connection doesn't drop with the large number of devices (40). I am not currently wanting to go for a mesh router. So what would your suggestions be? I tested quite a few including the Netgears, they were very good for coverage and overall performance. I had a unique requirement in that I wanted to be able to make over 64 DHCP reservations, the Netgear was the only one of the Home / Small Office routers I could find that met that requirement (that however has nothing to do with how well it will perform with a large number of WiFi clients). I didn’t get it because of a limitation in it’s reporting / sorting, but that’s very much something I’m hung up on, and not anything most people consider. Here’s what I wrote about the Netgear I tested. “ Netgear RAX80-100NAS — Very cool looking Nighthawk router — think the Emperor’s ship in Star Wars without the center stabilizer. A winner when it comes to addresses, basically limited by memory, I quit testing at 100 DHCP reservations, which meets my needs. Unfortunately you can’t sort, and you can’t make a dummy table in order, because editing causes it to re-sort. So close as it also has good range. Edit 2020/04/11 — the Netgear Orbi has the same limitations.” So I’d say Netgear is a top contender and it should probably do a good job for you. I bought a Ubiquity Dream Machine, and a bunch of their other stuff, and like it very much, but the learning curve is high, support not great, and it doesn’t even have WiFi 6 (though one of my APs does). Their management software is awesome, and that’s what was important to me. |
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Post by BigE on Jun 21, 2021 17:49:26 GMT -5
Interesting. Been looking at dream machine pro and getting a Ubiquiti $100 WIFI 6 access point plus perhaps their 4port POE switch w/wifi for wall outlet. Like post originator, wifi stability is of the utmost concern. Have an Asus AC5300 wifi router that gets generally good results, but is flaky at times. I chalk it up to being a high end consumer device and not commercial. What's been your experience? Though not by career, my experience with PCs and networking is better than the average and I have a couple of their 5 port switches and Unifi software loaded already. Too bad the dream machine will ONLY accept Ubiquiti cameras; otherwise, I'd jump right in headfirst.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 21, 2021 18:16:16 GMT -5
I tested quite a few including the Netgears, they were very good for coverage and overall performance. I had a unique requirement in that I wanted to be able to make over 64 DHCP reservations, the Netgear was the only one of the Home / Small Office routers I could find that met that requirement (that however has nothing to do with how well it will perform with a large number of WiFi clients). I didn’t get it because of a limitation in it’s reporting / sorting, but that’s very much something I’m hung up on, and not anything most people consider. Here’s what I wrote about the Netgear I tested. “ Netgear RAX80-100NAS — Very cool looking Nighthawk router — think the Emperor’s ship in Star Wars without the center stabilizer. A winner when it comes to addresses, basically limited by memory, I quit testing at 100 DHCP reservations, which meets my needs. Unfortunately you can’t sort, and you can’t make a dummy table in order, because editing causes it to re-sort. So close as it also has good range. Edit 2020/04/11 — the Netgear Orbi has the same limitations.” So I’d say Netgear is a top contender and it should probably do a good job for you. I bought a Ubiquity Dream Machine, and a bunch of their other stuff, and like it very much, but the learning curve is high, support not great, and it doesn’t even have WiFi 6 (though one of my APs does). Their management software is awesome, and that’s what was important to me. Hi thanks for your feedback. Okay, so when you say DHCP reservations are you talking about it was able to connect with over 64 devices stably? Because that sounds really good to me. What is this sorting? What's the general point of it. One big requirement for me is that if the power fails and later comes back on, or if the router is unplugged and replugged, it needs to be able to recconect to all the devices automatically without intervention. Do you think sorting affects that (for my use). Also which netgear do you think I should get? The Nighthawk X6x or the Netgear RAX70 (AX6600) or your tested one - RAX-80 -100NAS. Also, is there an advantage of going from dual band to triple band? No, DHCP reservations let you give specific devices (like your TV) the same IP address every time (it doesn't do this normally). I do it for every device on my network, but I used to manage a very large network and it's the way I think, most people only do this for specific devices that work better that way. It has nothing to do with how well your network will handle a large number of devices. If you don't do lots of reservations, the sorting isn't important. The power off/on requirement shouldn't be a problem, many people pull the plugs on their routers to reboot them. A tri-band router might give you better performance depending on your environment, it also might give options to put your IoT devices on their own band, I'm just starting to do that for security, but using VLANs. The Netgear I tested was their best at the time, but that was over a year ago, I'm not sure now. There are too many variables for me to say how well your environment might work, I'm in the country and there's no competition. If you're in a dense environment (lots of neighbors) and you have lots of WiFi devices, expect more difficulty, 5GHz will help, but many devices don't have that choice, wired Ethernet is best -- I wire EVERYTHING that has a port (but I designed and built my house and knew I would have lots of stuff). C/Net type reviews are probably a good place to look, but their trying to sell stuff too. I'll try to look at the models tonight. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 21, 2021 18:29:44 GMT -5
Interesting. Been looking at dream machine pro and getting a Ubiquiti $100 WIFI 6 access point plus perhaps their 4port POE switch w/wifi for wall outlet. Like post originator, wifi stability is of the utmost concern. Have an Asus AC5300 wifi router that gets generally good results, but is flaky at times. I chalk it up to being a high end consumer device and not commercial. What's been your experience? Though not by career, my experience with PCs and networking is better than the average and I have a couple of their 5 port switches and Unifi software loaded already. Too bad the dream machine will ONLY accept Ubiquiti cameras; otherwise, I'd jump right in headfirst. I like the 'Controller' management software that's built into the Dream Machine (and Pro), it let's you manage your entire network, if it's all UniFi -- and to be clear, Ubiquity has different lines that don't all work together, if you get a Dream Machine that's in the Unifi line and you want to buy other Unifi products. As for cameras, we have about a dozen, mostly wired PoE and not Ubiquity (Amcrest), but we have their NVR too. I have 6 of their PoE switches, their great and nicely managed by the controller. So I guess it depends what you want to do with the cameras. My WiFi 6 AP was beta when I bought it and was tricky to get running, it's stable now but they're a bit behind in that respect. The more home oriented Amplifi line is very cool, good WiFi 6, but not built to integrate with Unifi. |
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Post by wilburthegoose on Jun 21, 2021 18:55:09 GMT -5
Don't over-complicate things. Just get a decent router 802.11ac, WPA2, and use ethernet as often as you can. Other new protocols are great, but there are very few devices that can use them today.
I have 3 different switches, which are pretty inexpensive. One in my home office, and two in my "computer room", also known as a basement. I also have a Linksys router working in bridge mode to serve WiFi upstairs. I could've set up a mesh network, but it wasn't worth it for me.
PS - I do this type of thing for a living (I'm in InfoSec) so I went with secure, simple and inexpensive. And I get damn great speed (I have 1Gb Fios internet), especially when using Ethernet.
PPS - My #1 recommendation is to use Ethernet everywhere you can. #2 recommendation is to have a long WiFi password, but not one that has all sorts of goofy special characters. Something like, "It's too hot for me today!" is perfect (use a passphrase, not a password).
Last thing - and this is critical. Always make sure your routers are running the most current firmware.
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 21, 2021 19:15:13 GMT -5
Must’ve been divine intervention. Within the hour I received an update from my app which is for the Linksys router
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Post by vcautokid on Jun 21, 2021 19:24:56 GMT -5
If you have to use Wifi, which I frequently call why---fi. Keith is right. A wire is dependable Radio well not so much. All my connections are wired. My tablet and phone are not, and I am okay with that. I hear routers here but with the number of devices here, surprised nobody is mentioning a switch.
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Post by vcautokid on Jun 21, 2021 19:25:50 GMT -5
www.ui.com/ These guys are popular with my I.T. Admins.
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Post by vcautokid on Jun 21, 2021 19:27:13 GMT -5
These are my go toos when Home integration and more are needed and a robust network is called upon. Enterprise grade stuff, costs more but works great. I put in a bunch and never had a defect ever. araknisnetworks.com/ |
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Post by routlaw on Jun 22, 2021 7:58:17 GMT -5
Switches? What is so important about these things and what exactly do they do? Never heard of them until now. Thanks.
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Post by audiosyndrome on Jun 22, 2021 8:36:32 GMT -5
Or, you can simply turn the lights on and off manually. 😀
Russ
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 22, 2021 9:21:06 GMT -5
Switches? What is so important about these things and what exactly do they do? Never heard of them until now. Thanks. First, if you have a router with multiple Ethernet ports on the back, you already have a small switch, essentially it gives you more places to plug your devices in. Those connectors are called RJ-45, and are a larger version of the RJ-11 connections some of us may still have to plug a POT into (Plain Old Telephone). Switches also allow you to have more ‘ports’ at a remote location. Say your router is somewhere that gives you good WiFi coverage, but you have a ‘AV Center’ on the other side of the house (with an AVR, TV, streaming box, disc player, music server, etc). You could run a single CAT6 cable across the house, plug one end into the router and the other end into a switch, it would give you a place to plug all those devices in (and avoid WiFi). Switches come in various sizes: 4, 8, 16, 24, 48 ports depending on your need — always buy at least one more port than you have devices (to plug the link in). You can extend from that switch to another switch as well. Switches also have other qualities like ‘managed’, ‘wire speed’, and a myriad of performance and configuration options, but they’re usually only important in large or very secure networks, in the home most cheap switches will work fine. You can get an 8 port switch for about $20. Edit, switches also have port speeds, these days you should buy a 1 Gbps switch (Gigabits per second). |
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs 
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,033
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Post by cawgijoe on Jun 22, 2021 9:28:06 GMT -5
Switches? What is so important about these things and what exactly do they do? Never heard of them until now. Thanks. First, if you have a router with multiple Ethernet ports on the back, you already have a small switch, essentially it gives you more places to plug your devices in (those connectors are called RJ-45, and are a larger version of the RJ-11 connections some of us may still have to plug a POT into (plain old telephone). Switches also allow you to have more ‘ports’ at a remote location. Say your router is somewhere that gives you good WiFi coverage, but you have a ‘AV Center’ on the other side of the house (with an AVR, streaming box, disc player, music server, etc). You could run a single CAT6 cable across the house, plug one end into the router and the other end into a switch, it would give you a place to plug all those devices in. Switches come in various sizes: 4, 8, 16, 24, 48 ports depending on your need (always buy at least one more port than you have devices to plug the link in). You can extend from that switch to another switch as well. Switches also have other qualities like ‘managed’, ‘wire speed’, and a myriad of performance and configuration options, but they’re usually only important in large or very secure networks, in the home most cheap switches will work fine. You can get an 8 port switch for about $20. Very good explanation. I have two switches on my AV system. Had one switch originally, then as more gear appeared that required internet connectivity, I got a second. My router is upstairs and I ran a CAT6 cable as described. Works great and gives me hardwired reliability and speed. |
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