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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 26, 2021 7:13:45 GMT -5
I don't think my issues are with the SVS subs, either. The low low bass is fine, but I find that I have to set the low pass frequency on the subs really high to fill in the missing bass and mid-bass frequencies. That is why I think the speakers may be the culprits. The music isn't very visceral. I agree that the Thiels are very accurate speakers and look great on paper, but maybe they just don't integrate well with my room, system, music preference. I'm trying to discern if the speakers need to be changed or if a component in the system needs to be changed and am relying on people who know Emotiva well to help me figure this out. When you say the subwoofer XO is set high, how high? 185 Hz at -9 dB
There might be cancellation of frequencies based upon the placement of the speakers. You can move your seat to test. Try moving the speakers waaaay out from the wall. Consider everything that costs nothing but time first before replacing anything. The Thiels are 5'6"' from the side and rear walls walls, and both subs are up against the front wall about 1/4 the width of the room from each side wall. Thoughts? |
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 26, 2021 7:18:10 GMT -5
Hello, all. I am hoping to get some honest feedback on a question I've had for a while now. First off my system is a dedicated 2-channel setup on which I play CDs (75%) and vinyl (25%). I listen to rock almost exclusively (Stones, Floyd, Peppers, etc). I have a Schiit Freya+ preamp that I use in the tube stage, a Schiit Modi Multibit DAC, an Emotiva XPA-DR3 amp, Thiel CS 2.3 speakers, and dual SVS SB 2000 Pro subs. My room is 22'W x 30"L x 9'H and has been treated with GIK bass traps and diffusors. My system sounds ok, but not great. I have great clarity but only average soundstage and anemic bass. I tend to listen to my music at 65-75 dB yet still get ear fatigue after only 30-45 minutes. So...I'm trying to figure out the weak link in my system. I believe it is either the amp or the speakers. I'm eyeing the PS Audio Stellar M1200 to replace the DR3, but before doing that I auditioned some speakers at...easy, now...Best Buy. I listened to the Kef Reference 3 and the Kef Blade 2 and was completely blown away by both of these speakers. What I really liked about them was the incredible 3D, wrap-around, holographic, 'you are really there' soundstage they produced as well as the tremendous palpable bass they put out. What I didn't like about them was the price! I spoke to to the very knowledgeable manager there and shared with him my thoughts and the issues I am having with my system. He seemed to think that the PS Audio amp would "wake up" my Thiels. I'm not so sure. The Thiels have only a single 9" woofer and an 8" passive radiator, so I doubt they will make that much more bass with a different amp. I have heard great things about the Airmotiv T2+ and may give them a try. Can anyone speak to the quality of the soundstage and bass they put out? Can anyone compare them to the KEF models I mentioned above? I'd like opinions as to what my next move should be. New amp or new speakers? Thanks! Some missing pieces of information are... how you have this all interconnected. What (if anything) is handling bass management...? How is the DR-3 connected (balanced or single ended)...? The CD player is connected to the DAC which is cinnected to the Freya+. The turntable is connected to the phono preamp which is connected to the Freya+. The Freya+ is connected to the XPA-DR3 via balanced connections. Speakers are connected to the Emotiva with 10g copper wire. Nothing is handling bass management. Ideas???EDIT: I see that the two posts above mine might be alluding to the same thing I'm thinking...  |
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 26, 2021 7:28:34 GMT -5
Some comments, for whatever they are worth... When you listened to the KEF's at Best Buy, were they being played at the 65-75 db level you normally use at home? If they were louder that might make them sound "better." Yes. I actually brought my SPL meter with me to the store and adjusted the volume to 72 dB.
It would help if you posted a picture of your room so we can see how everything is positioned and what the surfaces are like. I will try to do this but am not able to right now. I find it hard to believe that SVS subs could be bass anemic. It could very well be that the sort of music you listen to just doesn't sound right at the relatively low levels you use (I say relatively, because of the genre). Because of the Fletcher-Munson curve, the bass may sound light. I need to Google that. I'm more of an emotional audiophile as opposed to a technical/smart one!When the PS Audio sales rep told you that their amp would give you a "deeper and richer soundstage" and "more musicality," just what exactly does "richer soundstage" mean? And what exactly does "more musicality" mean? That's almost like saying it will make your system sound more organic and chocolatey. I was told that the PS Audio M1200 would "significantly improve your listening experience in comparison to your Emotiva amp and that you'll hear improved dynamics and darker backgrounds. You can also expect to hear a more lush, engaging sound and broader soundstage." Their words, not mine. Thoughts? |
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 26, 2021 7:32:15 GMT -5
With the quality of equipment and effort you've put into trying to get good sound I suspect something is defective. Really look at all your wiring and settings it's easy to make a dumb mistake. Then look at your oldest and newest components things usually go bad in the first 90 days or after many years. I thought the same thing, so I sent the DR3 back to Emotiva and the Freya+ back to Schiit for diagnostic testing. Both checked out 100% normal without defects. I also got on the phone with SVS and had them help me set up the subs. I'm really trying here! |
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 26, 2021 7:48:16 GMT -5
Hello, all. I am hoping to get some honest feedback on a question I've had for a while now. First off my system is a dedicated 2-channel setup on which I play CDs (75%) and vinyl (25%). I listen to rock almost exclusively (Stones, Floyd, Peppers, etc). I have a Schiit Freya+ preamp that I use in the tube stage, a Schiit Modi Multibit DAC, an Emotiva XPA-DR3 amp, Thiel CS 2.3 speakers, and dual SVS SB 2000 Pro subs. My room is 22'W x 30"L x 9'H and has been treated with GIK bass traps and diffusors. My system sounds ok, but not great. I have great clarity but only average soundstage and anemic bass. I tend to listen to my music at 65-75 dB yet still get ear fatigue after only 30-45 minutes. So...I'm trying to figure out the weak link in my system. I believe it is either the amp or the speakers. I'm eyeing the PS Audio Stellar M1200 to replace the DR3, but before doing that I auditioned some speakers at...easy, now...Best Buy. I listened to the Kef Reference 3 and the Kef Blade 2 and was completely blown away by both of these speakers. What I really liked about them was the incredible 3D, wrap-around, holographic, 'you are really there' soundstage they produced as well as the tremendous palpable bass they put out. What I didn't like about them was the price! I spoke to to the very knowledgeable manager there and shared with him my thoughts and the issues I am having with my system. He seemed to think that the PS Audio amp would "wake up" my Thiels. I'm not so sure. The Thiels have only a single 9" woofer and an 8" passive radiator, so I doubt they will make that much more bass with a different amp. I have heard great things about the Airmotiv T2+ and may give them a try. Can anyone speak to the quality of the soundstage and bass they put out? Can anyone compare them to the KEF models I mentioned above? I'd like opinions as to what my next move should be. New amp or new speakers? Thanks! Hi well you have done several things right. You have powerful amps (yes the XPA gen 3 has some slamming bass) good speakers, subs etc. Room treatment. Now you have a LARGE room. I don't think you should be spending that kind of money when you would likely be wowed much more easily with less. Bigger speakers can give you better bass - but the prices can be exorbitant. What that is telling me is that 1. You're not going to like this. Your enemy is your room. You have very likely NOT treated your room enough....like not even close. You'd be surprised at how much room treatment it can take to make a difference past the intial whizzbang you get after you stick in say 2 to six panels. This is going to be making the difference. Whatever you have, you're probably going to want to double it and you are immediately not going to want to because of how cumbersome room treatments are. But it's the truth. Consult with GIK on this. They'll give you a ridiculously large reccomendation of room panels- and they are right. ATS acoustics is a little cheaper. There are also acoustic panel companies which can have splendid custom pictures or photos printed which span seamlessly across several panels if the looks of panels bother you (for $$$). I agree with you. I continue to work with GIK and actually just received some more 4" diffusors/absorbers for the rear and side walls. They have some really beautiful stuff!2. Your subs. They're good subs. Going dual was a fantastic idea. But I think you need MOAR powah to get that room coupling you would want. The most impressive subs I have seen are the Powersound audio S3612. (I've heard the s3601). Dual 18 inch subs each. I believe this guy designed SVS subs before he started this company. The PSA subs are humungous and will absolutely extend extremely low and couple to your room. They excel in low end impact and pressurizing the room. They are ridiculously quick too so the bass has all the texture and growl etc that lesser subs can't communicate. Even one of those you will pretty much never have any horsepower problems. However, if you go with two of these, you will have a better balanced sound field kind of like what you did with the SVS. You will be stunned by how much more nicer it is especially because you already have nice subs. Keep in mind that once you get them you probably will simply get rid of the SVS because they can't hang at the same level as these because of the extended frequency response. Agree! SVS has a trade-up policy so I am seriously considering going up to their SB16-Ultra. They are huge and sound fantastic! Best Buy actually had one set up, and I was able to demo it.3. Last are the Thiels. Honestly the Thiels are really nice speakers. Perhaps they might be a tad small for your room. But I would personally experiment with room treatments and subs first before buying new speakers. I know they are, and I have this weird nostalgic attachment to them because when I bought them they were top of the line state of the art speakers. I'm having a hard time coming to terms with the thought of relegating them to home theater duty.4. If you want to experiment with speakers, the sky's the limit. You can couple them with Axiom M80 speakers (high power) version for al little bit more oomph. The axioms are still the best sounding speakers I've heard. Nice speakers!The Emotiva T2 is rather small but surprisingly full range. They are extremely detailed especially in the treble, feeling almost holographic with a punchy as all get out bass. The mid-range is serviceable but probably just a hair less impactful than some of the best out there. The Emotiva T2 is one of the best speakers I've heard despite being one of the smallest. They may be a cheap option especially because they have a trial period that you can send them back if you don't like it. The step up from the emotiva and axiom - and keep in mind it's only a slight step up would be something like the Sonus Faber SOnetto VIII. www.sonusfaber.com/en/products/sonetto-viii/This speaker is slightly more robust in the mid range but doesn't quite extend to the depths like the Emotiva T2 can. There's no doubt it's a high quality speaker. It's got a bit better stability in the sound but absolutely not worth the crazy price premium - which is mainly for the fantastic looks. The T2+ seem almost too good to be true, but I fear they will be too small for the room and won't image like the Kefs, and I'll have tremendous buyer's remorse. Even with the return policy, I'll still be in the same place I am now.If you are okay with going for something off the beaten path that produces BIG sound... The tekton Double impact will do just that for you  Almost every tekton speaker produces big sound and they never run out of horsepower. The Tekton Pendragons took a room about your size and pretty much shook it around. The Pendragons weren't the last word in balanced midrange because it didn't have a mid range woofer. Who knows the Tekton Double impact (or higher) with its additional mid woofers may be just what you are looking for. They do come with beautiful paint finishes or other finishes that you can request. The speakers are almost custom-made basically as you request. The sound you get here is large in scale due to the tremendous height of the speakers so everything feels nice and big and immersive. Like really big. tektondesign.com/product/full-range-speakers/full-towers/double-impact-se/If you want to really go for it big sound pricewise, I have a hard time believing you wouldn't be just about thrilled with the Tekton 1812. A member on this forums has the lower priced ulberfeight and he is bringing the house down with ridiculous SPL figures (over 120 db). tektondesign.com/product/full-range-speakers/flagship/1812-model-v12/ Keep in mind that these are massive. (Note I haven't heard them). Funny you should mention Tekton. I am really interested in them, so I called and spoke to Eric Alexander the other day. He was very informative and very science-based. I liked what he had to say. I think the Moabs might work best for me.
As for the PS Audio amps, yeah just don't worry about those. I don't know about that. They make some awesome stuff. Is the amp really not likely to be the culprit with my system?
The best amps I've heard are XPA-1 gen 2 (Wowza, just fantastic). Emotiva PA-1 amps (amazing detail, has some trouble driving planars or some speakers. Slightly lighter weight in impact versus the XPA-1 gen 2, but very close. CHEAP AS HELL). If you want a surreal experience, my friend B'zilla is selling his Audio Gd HE-1 preamp for peanuts (imo). I've heard it and it sounds uncanny at how musical it is - as long as you are listening on speakers. |
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 26, 2021 7:51:20 GMT -5
Thiel speakers are fantastic...I wish they were still around....you have great equipment. I'm not sure what is going on, but you should not have an anemic system. Thank you. I've tried to always buy solid equipment that is a good value. I wish I knew what was going on. The B&W bookshelf speakers that are connected to an old Onkyo 5.1 receiver in my garage put out more bass than my dedicated system. It's driving me nuts!
It's tough to diagnose remotely, where are you located....maybe there is a Lounge member near you who can help out.... Agree! I am in Louisville, KY. |
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 26, 2021 7:56:22 GMT -5
There is no such thing as "sound stage" as a separate thing. Sound is nothing more than a variation in air pressure - which our ears can detect with great accuracy in some respect - and which our brains are incredibly good at interpreting.
What you hear as "sound stage" is how your brain interprets the time and phase relationships between the sound entering your two ears. Your brain "decodes" that information and uses it to determine where each specific sound or instrument "seems to be coming from".
When you listen to a live performance this information comes about because various instruments are actually located at different points on the stage as well as reflections from various points in the room.
(Obviously, when you listen to a recording, the sounds all come from the wrong direction - your two speakers and the walls of your listening room.
It is up to your system to deliver a signal to your two ears such that it tricks your brain into seeming to hear that original performance and those original instrument locations and room acoustics.) This is all influenced to a significant degree by your speakers (because most speakers produce significant phase shift and each speaker model distributes different frequencies throughout the room differently.)
The speakers, the room, and how they interact, are probably the largest overall influence on how you perceive the sound stage of what you're listening to.
It is also obviously going to be influenced to a significant degree by the content itself... both the "quality" of the recording and the way in which it was recorded and mastered.
However, with all else being equal, two amplifiers that produce no audible amount of phase shift or distortion, and playing the same source signal, will "deliver the same sound stage".
An accurate amplifier is going to reproduce the electronic signal accurately - at which point it will be up to your speakers and room to do their part accurately. And some less accurate gear may unintentionally (or intentionally) alter the signal in such a way that it tricks your brain into "hearing" a "sound stage" that is different than the one that was originally recorded. At which point it's your choice whether you prefer the accurate rendition of the recording or the one that has been "improved".
(For example a lot of tube gear artificially alters the sound stage in ways that many people find pleasant... for example producing frequency dependent phase shift that results in "a wider perceived sound stage".)
That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.
As for the situation with your subs... I think you need to look into that further. I suspect that something about the room placement or setup of the Thiels is causing them NOT to deliver as much mid-bass as they should...
And, as a result, you have moved the crossover on your subs up too high "to fill in the gap".
Your Thiels shouldn't have any problem producing a sufficient amount of nice clean detailed mid-bass... That should enable you to push that crossover to the subs down lower.... Which should enable them to do what they do well...
The crossover between full range speakers and multiple subs is always going to be a bit problematic...
So you're always better off if you can put it down nice and low...
I'd be looking to figure out what's going on, and why the Thiels don't seem to produce enough mid-bass, and fix that. Maybe get the Thiels closer to some room boundaries...
Then set that crossover lower rather than unusually high...
Agree. I bought some brand new sliders from Home Depot last night and hope to find some time this weekend to slip them underneath the Thiels so I can move them around some more. Hi, Keith. Thanks for the thoughtful response. A few follow-ups... Regarding speaker placement and room acoustics, I worked on both of these for over six months and definitely found the sweetest spots possible for the Thiels and the subs by moving them around again and again and again and again and again. You get the picture. When I asked the people at PS Audio what differences I would hear with their amp (Stellar M1200 monoblocks) versus the XPA-DR3, they told me I would have 'a deeper and richer soundstage' and 'more musicality'. That's where my idea of amps having the ability to influence soundstage came from. Maybe imaging is the better term and not soundstage. Thoughts? I don't think my issues are with the SVS subs, either. The low low bass is fine, but I find that I have to set the low pass frequency on the subs really high to fill in the missing bass and mid-bass frequencies. That is why I think the speakers may be the culprits. The music isn't very visceral. I agree that the Thiels are very accurate speakers and look great on paper, but maybe they just don't integrate well with my room, system, music preference. I'm trying to discern if the speakers need to be changed or if a component in the system needs to be changed and am relying on people who know Emotiva well to help me figure this out. I've tried the Freya+ in all stages, and I definitely like the sound in the tube stage. I have tried two other DACs without much of a difference. Thanks again, all, for the feedback. Please keep the great ideas coming. I'm all ears! |
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 26, 2021 8:00:13 GMT -5
Guys-
Thank you so much for the helpful, informative, and thought-provoking replies. I really appreciate them. I have replied to as many of your questions and suggestions as I could above. Let me know what you are thinking.
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Post by garbulky on Jun 26, 2021 8:23:51 GMT -5
Yes, I don't think the amp will fix your situation I have the heard the XPA-2 gen 3 (non-DR). Personally I surprisingly did not like the tonal signature in the treble and was quite dissapointed. Nevertheless, it's still a good amp. It was lightning quick and had substantial bass. Most amps could not pull off the speed and bass of that amp. For tonality, speed, bass etc, the XPA-1 gen 2 sounded quite a bit better, more relaxed and open. So did the Emotiva PA-1. Heck even the Bas-x A-300 did too (sounded relaxed open) but lacked the bass and speed. But keep in mind that was NOT the DR version I auditioned that you have which might be quite a bit better. I just haven't heard it. If you were worried about electronics, the modi multibit didn't measure too well, but it probably sounds all right. But it's not a balanced unit and your amps are balanced. That also probably won't fix the situation though. |
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 26, 2021 8:48:45 GMT -5
Yes, I don't think the amp will fix your situation I have the heard the XPA-2 gen 3 (non-DR). Personally I surprisingly did not like the tonal signature in the treble and was quite dissapointed. Nevertheless, it's still a good amp. It was lightning quick and had substantial bass. Most amps could not pull off the speed and bass of that amp. For tonality, speed, bass etc, the XPA-1 gen 2 sounded quite a bit better, more relaxed and open. So did the Emotiva PA-1. Heck even the Bas-x A-300 did too (sounded relaxed open) but lacked the bass and speed. But keep in mind that was NOT the DR version I auditioned that you have which might be quite a bit better. I just haven't heard it. If you were worried about electronics, the modi multibit didn't measure too well, but it probably sounds all right. But it's not a balanced unit and your amps are balanced. That also probably won't fix the situation though. I agree. I've tried a different DAC, and it didn't make much of a difference, good or bad. The music sounded different, but the bass was still lacking. |
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Post by davidl81 on Jun 26, 2021 8:50:52 GMT -5
I have a DR-2 and I can tell you with out a doubt that the amp is not your issue in the least bit. I’ll run Tidal from a Bluesound Node 2i into my RMC-1 to my Mirage OMD-28s in reference stereo and the bass just slams. It’s to the point where I’ll go and unplug my subs because I cannot believe the bass is just coming from the towers. It’s highly unlikely you will get the results you want changing the amp.
The simplest thing to change I think would be to just try a different pre-amp. Schitt makes good stuff, I have a Sol TT and Mani preamp. But maybe something different will just sound better. The biggest change I ever had in my 2 channel experience was going from a Marantz 8802A which very much like you was anemic in the low end to the Emotiva RMC-1. Everything else stayed the same and it was like getting a totally new system.
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Post by brutiarti on Jun 26, 2021 8:56:02 GMT -5
I would check the in-phase out of phase first. Then make sue that the listening position is not in a null spot.
In the case that the speakers have something wrong (maybe the crossovers are going bad), the subwoofers would still put bass in the room.
A mismatch between preamp and amp is unlikely.
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Post by drtrey3 on Jun 26, 2021 9:05:30 GMT -5
First, welcome! And that is a great system you have. The only thing I can add is that Thiel speakers can be a *bleep* to set up and are very sensitive to placement. They do not play well with furniture!
Trey
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Post by garbulky on Jun 26, 2021 9:19:35 GMT -5
I would check the in-phase out of phase first. Then make sue that the listening position is not in a null spot. In the case that the speakers have something wrong (maybe the crossovers are going bad), the subwoofers would still put bass in the room. A mismatch between preamp and amp is unlikely. Actually yes this.... the listening position or speaker/sub position could be in a null spot! Have you ever done the subwoofer crawl? You put the subwoofer on your couch where you listen or as close as you can get it. Run a bass sweep and walk around the room and hear where the bass sounds (or measures) the most even. So for one example if you now walk to where the subwoofer used to be and notice that there are some massive dips or peaks in the bass in certain areas but it's much more even one foot to the left, then you know that it is not in a great spot. BTW your problem is not the Schiit Freya, it is a nice sounding preamp and one of the more transparent ones. |
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Post by monkumonku on Jun 26, 2021 9:34:28 GMT -5
Some comments, for whatever they are worth... When you listened to the KEF's at Best Buy, were they being played at the 65-75 db level you normally use at home? If they were louder that might make them sound "better." Yes. I actually brought my SPL meter with me to the store and adjusted the volume to 72 dB.
It would help if you posted a picture of your room so we can see how everything is positioned and what the surfaces are like. I will try to do this but am not able to right now. I find it hard to believe that SVS subs could be bass anemic. It could very well be that the sort of music you listen to just doesn't sound right at the relatively low levels you use (I say relatively, because of the genre). Because of the Fletcher-Munson curve, the bass may sound light. I need to Google that. I'm more of an emotional audiophile as opposed to a technical/smart one!When the PS Audio sales rep told you that their amp would give you a "deeper and richer soundstage" and "more musicality," just what exactly does "richer soundstage" mean? And what exactly does "more musicality" mean? That's almost like saying it will make your system sound more organic and chocolatey. I was told that the PS Audio M1200 would "significantly improve your listening experience in comparison to your Emotiva amp and that you'll hear improved dynamics and darker backgrounds. You can also expect to hear a more lush, engaging sound and broader soundstage." Their words, not mine. Thoughts?The Fletcher-Munson curve is based on the fact that at lower volumes, we perceive bass to be softer than it really is. That is why some preamps have a loudness button. When that button is engaged then the bass is boosted by around 10db to compensate for how it sounds softer at lower volumes. My point was that the sort of music you listen to is more like loud rock and if, as you say, you are an "emotional" audiophile, a great deal of the emotion in rock music has to do with volume. Can you imagine the Stones playing a concert at a 65bd-75bd level? They might not even be heard above the crowd. While 65-75db isn't exactly "soft" it isn't rock music loud, either. As for the PS Audio amp versus Emotiva, you should have asked the guy if his statement was based on actual, personal comparisons. I suspect he gives the same line to anyone who asks what sort of difference they will hear between the PS Audio amp and anything else. $6,000 is a steep price to find out if it is true but at least they are good about giving refunds if you don't like the equipment. |
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Post by ttocs on Jun 26, 2021 9:45:39 GMT -5
When you say the subwoofer XO is set high, how high? 185 Hz at -9 dB
There might be cancellation of frequencies based upon the placement of the speakers. You can move your seat to test. Try moving the speakers waaaay out from the wall. Consider everything that costs nothing but time first before replacing anything. The Thiels are 5'6"' from the side and rear walls walls, and both subs are up against the front wall about 1/4 the width of the room from each side wall. Thoughts?Something is surely wrong here. An XO that high with "full range" speakers is not right. I'm back with 'ya on suspecting speakers, but I really doubt it's amp related. Although at this point any component, including cabling, is suspect. Disconnect the subs completely, remove as many components from the signal chain as possible, and test each speaker alone before testing both together. They should produce good bass. I have a room that's about the same cubic feet as yours and I used to have speakers rated about the same as the low frequency rating as your Thiels, and the bass was such that when I incorporated a sub it was at the lowest frequency possible and ended up being 50Hz XO. The speaker's woofers were fine down to that even in this volume of room. So with your XO that high there's got to be something wrong with one or both of the Thiels, woofer(s), XO, sumthin'. While it might still be the listening position being in a null, in my experience the nulls are not that large, but everything should be on the table. |
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Post by doc1963 on Jun 26, 2021 11:11:21 GMT -5
The CD player is connected to the DAC which is cinnected to the Freya+. The turntable is connected to the phono preamp which is connected to the Freya+. The Freya+ is connected to the XPA-DR3 via balanced connections. Speakers are connected to the Emotiva with 10g copper wire. Nothing is handling bass management. Ideas??? Yes... try reversing the polarity of the wires at the back of the speakers that are connected to the DR-3. Using the balanced input of any Emotiva amp results in reversed polarity at the speaker outputs and you might be out of phase with your subwoofer. Worth a try... |
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 26, 2021 17:15:26 GMT -5
The CD player is connected to the DAC which is cinnected to the Freya+. The turntable is connected to the phono preamp which is connected to the Freya+. The Freya+ is connected to the XPA-DR3 via balanced connections. Speakers are connected to the Emotiva with 10g copper wire. Nothing is handling bass management. Ideas??? Yes... try reversing the polarity of the wires at the back of the speakers that are connected to the DR-3. Using the balanced input of any Emotiva amp results in reversed polarity at the speaker outputs and you might be out of phase with your subwoofer. Worth a try... I t is! I will try this first thing tomorrow and get back to you. |
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 26, 2021 17:17:46 GMT -5
Something is surely wrong here. An XO that high with "full range" speakers is not right. I'm back with 'ya on suspecting speakers, but I really doubt it's amp related. Although at this point any component, including cabling, is suspect. Disconnect the subs completely, remove as many components from the signal chain as possible, and test each speaker alone before testing both together. They should produce good bass. I have a room that's about the same cubic feet as yours and I used to have speakers rated about the same as the low frequency rating as your Thiels, and the bass was such that when I incorporated a sub it was at the lowest frequency possible and ended up being 50Hz XO. The speaker's woofers were fine down to that even in this volume of room. So with your XO that high there's got to be something wrong with one or both of the Thiels, woofer(s), XO, sumthin'. While it might still be the listening position being in a null, in my experience the nulls are not that large, but everything should be on the table. Yes, it's a vexing problem. Glad yours worked out. I'll keep trying. Thanks for the suggestion. |
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 26, 2021 17:20:04 GMT -5
I have a DR-2 and I can tell you with out a doubt that the amp is not your issue in the least bit. I’ll run Tidal from a Bluesound Node 2i into my RMC-1 to my Mirage OMD-28s in reference stereo and the bass just slams. It’s to the point where I’ll go and unplug my subs because I cannot believe the bass is just coming from the towers. It’s highly unlikely you will get the results you want changing the amp. The simplest thing to change I think would be to just try a different pre-amp. Schitt makes good stuff, I have a Sol TT and Mani preamp. But maybe something different will just sound better. The biggest change I ever had in my 2 channel experience was going from a Marantz 8802A which very much like you was anemic in the low end to the Emotiva RMC-1. Everything else stayed the same and it was like getting a totally new system. I may look into a new preamp if fiddling with speaker and sub placement doesn't pan out. Thanks! |
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Almost every tekton speaker produces big sound and they never run out of horsepower. The Tekton Pendragons took a room about your size and pretty much shook it around. The Pendragons weren't the last word in balanced midrange because it didn't have a mid range woofer. Who knows the Tekton Double impact (or higher) with its additional mid woofers may be just what you are looking for. They do come with beautiful paint finishes or other finishes that you can request. The speakers are almost custom-made basically as you request. The sound you get here is large in scale due to the tremendous height of the speakers so everything feels nice and big and immersive. Like really big. 
