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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 26, 2021 17:21:34 GMT -5
I would check the in-phase out of phase first. Then make sue that the listening position is not in a null spot. In the case that the speakers have something wrong (maybe the crossovers are going bad), the subwoofers would still put bass in the room. A mismatch between preamp and amp is unlikely. This is what I am concerned about, too. Not sure I can get around it if it is the case. |
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 26, 2021 17:22:55 GMT -5
First, welcome! And that is a great system you have. The only thing I can add is that Thiel speakers can be a *bleep* to set up and are very sensitive to placement. They do not play well with furniture! Trey Thank you, and thank you.
Agree! The Thiels are old-school finicky, aren't they? |
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 26, 2021 17:25:11 GMT -5
I would check the in-phase out of phase first. Then make sue that the listening position is not in a null spot. In the case that the speakers have something wrong (maybe the crossovers are going bad), the subwoofers would still put bass in the room. A mismatch between preamp and amp is unlikely. Actually yes this.... the listening position or speaker/sub position could be in a null spot! Yep! This is what I fear. Can't throw money at a null spot and make it go away.
Have you ever done the subwoofer crawl? You put the subwoofer on your couch where you listen or as close as you can get it. Run a bass sweep and walk around the room and hear where the bass sounds (or measures) the most even. So for one example if you now walk to where the subwoofer used to be and notice that there are some massive dips or peaks in the bass in certain areas but it's much more even one foot to the left, then you know that it is not in a great spot. BTW your problem is not the Schiit Freya, it is a nice sounding preamp and one of the more transparent ones. I did do the subwoofer crawl. Maybe I need to revisit that. |
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 26, 2021 17:28:15 GMT -5
The Fletcher-Munson curve is based on the fact that at lower volumes, we perceive bass to be softer than it really is. That is why some preamps have a loudness button. When that button is engaged then the bass is boosted by around 10db to compensate for how it sounds softer at lower volumes. My point was that the sort of music you listen to is more like loud rock and if, as you say, you are an "emotional" audiophile, a great deal of the emotion in rock music has to do with volume. Can you imagine the Stones playing a concert at a 65bd-75bd level? They might not even be heard above the crowd. While 65-75db isn't exactly "soft" it isn't rock music loud, either. Thank you. Interesting...As for the PS Audio amp versus Emotiva, you should have asked the guy if his statement was based on actual, personal comparisons. I suspect he gives the same line to anyone who asks what sort of difference they will hear between the PS Audio amp and anything else. $6,000 is a steep price to find out if it is true but at least they are good about giving refunds if you don't like the equipment. Yeah. I don't usually make a habit of believing sales hype, but with hi-fi I tend to eat it up and then get sad. |
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Post by MusicHead on Jun 27, 2021 11:41:59 GMT -5
To the OP: one thing stood out to me in your postings. You wrote:
"Nothing is handling bass management."
That could be culprit. Integrating subwoofers with mains without bass management can be very difficult. With your subs set to reach as high as you have them you are overlapping the frequency response of the subs with that of the speakers, exactly in the mid-bass area where you have the issue.
Due to the room dimensions and its sonic signature you may have the phase relation between the speakers and the subs all wrong in the mid-bass area, resulting in cancelations of certain frequencies.
Have you tried to set the subs so that they pick up at the -3dB point of the speaker low range extension? Probably still not optimal, but the first thing that I would do (if you haven't tried that already) is to avoid the overlap between subs and main
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 27, 2021 16:55:51 GMT -5
Ok, guys. I've solved the mystery, but before I tell you how I fixed this vexing problem I would like to thank all of you for your suggestions and ideas. This is a really great community!
Today the first thing I did was reverse the polarity of my speakers. This was because it was suggested that my using balanced connections with the XPA-DR3 may have reversed the polarity of the speakers which then interfered with the subs. This was NOT the issue.
Next I disconnected my Schiit Freya+ and ran my CD player into an old Yamaha 5.1 receiver that I use in another room for watching television and which sounds pretty good to me. I plugged my speaker wires directly into the back of the Yamaha (cutting the Emotiva out of the system) and put in Disk 1 of the Stones' Forty Licks and heard music! Sweet, sweet music with lots of bass! I was shocked. So now I'm convinced that my Freya+ was the culprit, and so I started thinking about which preamp I should try next. While doing that, I grew concerned that the new preamp may end up sounding like the Freya+ if the problem wasn't the preamp but was something further down the chain...like the amp...or the balanced connectors.
Since the connectors were the next link in the chain, I removed them and replaced them with an unbalanced connector, flipped the switch, reconnected the Freya+, and fired up the CD player. And out came music, sweet, sweet music with lots of bass, better midrange, less harsh treble, and incredible 3D imaging. Holy sh*t1 I found the weak link. The cheapo XLR connector I bought off Amazon trying to save a couple of bucks had instead just brought me months of misery and frustration.
So, again, thank you, all, for helping me through this, especially those who cautioned me that it probably wasn't the Thiels, and that it probably wasn't the Emotiva. You were right! Also a big thank you to those who advised me to go back through the system bit by bit and to really look closely at everything. You were so right!
I am off to go listen to more music, now. I just wanted to let everyone know of this happy ending. I have just one more request. Could you tell me what high-quality XLR connector works well with the XPA amps?
Thanks again!
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Post by monkumonku on Jun 27, 2021 17:20:08 GMT -5
Ok, guys. I've solved the mystery, but before I tell you how I fixed this vexing problem I would like to thank all of you for your suggestions and ideas. This is a really great community! Today the first thing I did was reverse the polarity of my speakers. This was because it was suggested that my using balanced connections with the XPA-DR3 may have reversed the polarity of the speakers which then interfered with the subs. This was NOT the issue. Next I disconnected my Schiit Freya+ and ran my CD player into an old Yamaha 5.1 receiver that I use in another room for watching television and which sounds pretty good to me. I plugged my speaker wires directly into the back of the Yamaha (cutting the Emotiva out of the system) and put in Disk 1 of the Stones' Forty Licks and heard music! Sweet, sweet music with lots of bass! I was shocked. So now I'm convinced that my Freya+ was the culprit, and so I started thinking about which preamp I should try next. While doing that, I grew concerned that the new preamp may end up sounding like the Freya+ if the problem wasn't the preamp but was something further down the chain...like the amp...or the balanced connectors. Since the connectors were the next link in the chain, I removed them and replaced them with an unbalanced connector, flipped the switch, reconnected the Freya+, and fired up the CD player. And out came music, sweet, sweet music with lots of bass, better midrange, less harsh treble, and incredible 3D imaging. Holy sh*t1 I found the weak link. The cheapo XLR connector I bought off Amazon trying to save a couple of bucks had instead just brought me months of misery and frustration. So, again, thank you, all, for helping me through this, especially those who cautioned me that it probably wasn't the Thiels, and that it probably wasn't the Emotiva. You were right! Also a big thank you to those who advised me to go back through the system bit by bit and to really look closely at everything. You were so right! I am off to go listen to more music, now. I just wanted to let everyone know of this happy ending. I have just one more request. Could you tell me what high-quality XLR connector works well with the XPA amps? Thanks again! Congrats on solving your problem. With equipment as nice as what you have, don't cheap out on the accessories because like you said, the system is only as good as the weakest link. There's a company called World's Best Cables that sells good stuff on Amazon. They use name brands, like Canare, Mogami, etc., with quality connectors like Neutrik, to make their cables. Here is their product page on Amazon: smile.amazon.com/stores/node/12674522011Blue Jeans Cables is also reliable. |
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 27, 2021 18:41:21 GMT -5
^^^Will do. Thanks for the suggestions!
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Jun 27, 2021 20:53:34 GMT -5
Could you tell me what high-quality XLR connector works well with the XPA amps? Thanks again! I use Switchcraft XLR connectors and make my own cables. Sweetwater usually has them in stock for quick shipping. Switchcraft A3F XLR
Switchcraft A3MPKG XLR
Happy you found the problems! It probably feels like you've got a whole new system now. |
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 28, 2021 7:28:35 GMT -5
Could you tell me what high-quality XLR connector works well with the XPA amps? Thanks again! Happy you found the problems! It probably feels like you've got a whole new system now. It really does! |
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Post by garbulky on Jun 28, 2021 9:12:53 GMT -5
Cowhorn so glad you did that. Sometimes the best problems are the ones with cheap solutions!
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Post by Cowhorn on Jun 28, 2021 15:02:17 GMT -5
Cowhorn so glad you did that. Sometimes the best problems are the ones with cheap solutions! You got that right! |
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