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Post by dsollars1800 on Jul 23, 2021 12:12:23 GMT -5
I have the TA-100, which I now use as a preamp for the New A2. Interestingly, a couple days before announcement I responded to your team with a note that said I was waiting to see that you were going to do with this hinted-at new model. Said I wanted BT, easier to operate navigation, better remote, easier to use FM, and bass management options. DAC upgrade is nice. Well done. Now the TA100 will head to my work office, and the PT1 will take over it’s duties here at home.
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crash6
Minor Hero
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Post by crash6 on Jul 23, 2021 18:54:10 GMT -5
NOW HEAR THIS 
1) The USB input on the PT1 now supports sample rates up to 24/192k (but you will need to install a driver for Windows 10 - although not for Apple computers).
Ordered! Looking forward to putting it through its paces. To clarify: will I not need drivers to support Apple lossless fed via the USB in? Or does the unit simply not support the Apple lossless input via USB at all? |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 25, 2021 23:56:58 GMT -5
Hey KeithL - What's the expected shipping date again for PT1 orders? And one other question, please - Is the Analog Devices DAC in the PT1 the same DAC as in the Big Ego+ ? If so, thanks; if not, which of the two DACs do you prefer (and why)? |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Jul 26, 2021 11:10:42 GMT -5
The Big Ego + uses a Burr Brown PCM 5142 ... The Big Ego + supports sample rates up to 384k and has three user-selectable upsampling filters ...
To be honest I like the selectable filters on the Ego DACs.
(I don't have a single 384k file that I actually listen to.)
However, to be quite honest, I've never tried to do a direct comparison. And, separately, they both sound excellent.
If I wanted just a DAC (just a USB input DAC) I would go with the Big Ego +. But, if I wanted the other capabilities, then I would go with the PT1.
Hey KeithL - What's the expected shipping date again for PT1 orders? And one other question, please - Is the Analog Devices DAC in the PT1 the same DAC as in the Big Ego+ ? If so, thanks; if not, which of the two DACs do you prefer (and why)? |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 26, 2021 12:14:26 GMT -5
Thanks, KeithL - So another question - If I use my Big Ego+ and run it into the analog input of my PT1, does the signal stay in the analog domain through the bass management? Or is there another A-D/D-A conversion to get the filtering of the PT1? It would seem that if the additional A-D/D-A conversion is required, I'd do better to keep my signal in the digital domain into the PT-1 inputs. |
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jamesecox50
Minor Hero
You Dont Know What You Dont Know
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Post by jamesecox50 on Jul 29, 2021 21:43:16 GMT -5
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Post by vcautokid on Jul 30, 2021 4:35:29 GMT -5
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 30, 2021 6:18:58 GMT -5
Emotiva sales responded to an email of mine - other than the digital inputs themselves (leading directly to the DAC), nothing in the PT1 preamp happens in the digital domain. Subwoofer crossover, specifically, and presumably tone controls as well are all analog with no additional A-D / D-A conversions.
This is good in theory. No intermediate swaps between digital and analog mean that the audio signal is minimally processed, and should stay free of digital artifacts. OTOH, it puts a great deal of importance on the accuracy of the capacitors and resistors used for the crossover and tone controls. Since the PT1 is a bargain product, how much attention was given to the parts used in (particularly) the 90 Hz. low and high pass crossovers? A plus or minus 20% capacitor might move the crossover frequency significantly. If the resistor is similarly plus or minus 20%, then the range is even greater. Since this is to be a second order crossover, more components will be involved.
Part of my testing will be to use white noise and measure the actual crossover points. I'm curious to see not only how close they are to the specified 90 Hz., but also how well the low and high pass sections match.
Also, being an economy product, I suspect that the use of components such as film capacitors and high-accuracy, low-noise metal film resistors has been minimized to meet the price point. The good news is that non-polarized electrolytic capacitors have the potential to sound a LOT better than they did even a decade ago. Also the noise characteristics of resistors are far better than they have historically been. So it's possible that even the absence of "desirable parts" is not the impediment to good sound that it once was. We'll see...
Boomzilla
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs 
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,033
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Post by cawgijoe on Jul 30, 2021 7:20:34 GMT -5
Emotiva sales responded to an email of mine - other than the digital inputs themselves (leading directly to the DAC), nothing in the PT1 preamp happens in the digital domain. Subwoofer crossover, specifically, and presumably tone controls as well are all analog with no additional A-D / D-A conversions. This is good in theory. No intermediate swaps between digital and analog mean that the audio signal is minimally processed, and should stay free of digital artifacts. OTOH, it puts a great deal of importance on the accuracy of the capacitors and resistors used for the crossover and tone controls. Since the PT1 is a bargain product, how much attention was given to the parts used in (particularly) the 90 Hz. low and high pass crossovers? A plus or minus 20% capacitor might move the crossover frequency significantly. If the resistor is similarly plus or minus 20%, then the range is even greater. Since this is to be a second order crossover, more components will be involved. Part of my testing will be to use white noise and measure the actual crossover points. I'm curious to see not only how close they are to the specified 90 Hz., but also how well the low and high pass sections match. Also, being an economy product, I suspect that the use of components such as film capacitors and high-accuracy, low-noise metal film resistors has been minimized to meet the price point. The good news is that non-polarized electrolytic capacitors have the potential to sound a LOT better than they did even a decade ago. Also the noise characteristics of resistors are far better than they have historically been. So it's possible that even the absence of "desirable parts" is not the impediment to good sound that it once was. We'll see... Boomzilla Understand the concern on parts, however having just recently refurbished a Mintosh 1900 receiver with resistors and capacitors purchased from Mouser, quality parts are not expensive. I would also assume that a manufacturer such as Emotiva would get a discount on these parts also. If you take the top off, let us know what you see inside. |
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cyto
Minor Hero
Posts: 45
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Post by cyto on Jul 30, 2021 7:27:03 GMT -5
Anyone know the output impedance of the PT-1? I can't find it in the specs.
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jamesecox50
Minor Hero
You Dont Know What You Dont Know
Posts: 11
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Post by jamesecox50 on Jul 30, 2021 7:30:58 GMT -5
Emotiva sales responded to an email of mine - other than the digital inputs themselves (leading directly to the DAC), nothing in the PT1 preamp happens in the digital domain. Subwoofer crossover, specifically, and presumably tone controls as well are all analog with no additional A-D / D-A conversions. This is good in theory. No intermediate swaps between digital and analog mean that the audio signal is minimally processed, and should stay free of digital artifacts. OTOH, it puts a great deal of importance on the accuracy of the capacitors and resistors used for the crossover and tone controls. Since the PT1 is a bargain product, how much attention was given to the parts used in (particularly) the 90 Hz. low and high pass crossovers? A plus or minus 20% capacitor might move the crossover frequency significantly. If the resistor is similarly plus or minus 20%, then the range is even greater. Since this is to be a second order crossover, more components will be involved. Part of my testing will be to use white noise and measure the actual crossover points. I'm curious to see not only how close they are to the specified 90 Hz., but also how well the low and high pass sections match. Also, being an economy product, I suspect that the use of components such as film capacitors and high-accuracy, low-noise metal film resistors has been minimized to meet the price point. The good news is that non-polarized electrolytic capacitors have the potential to sound a LOT better than they did even a decade ago. Also the noise characteristics of resistors are far better than they have historically been. So it's possible that even the absence of "desirable parts" is not the impediment to good sound that it once was. We'll see... Boomzilla My concern is the electronic switches used in cheaper tone controls |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Jul 30, 2021 9:11:14 GMT -5
"Apple Lossless" is an AUDIO FORMAT. More specifically it is one of many formats used to store audio FILES. (The only requirement for playing an Apple Lossless file is that the player program or device that you're using can play that format.)
When you play an audio file or stream on a computer that audio signal is decoded by the computer and then sent to the DAC in a standard format: PCM. This audio signal is then sent to the DAC (or the USB input on the PT1) - which accepts PCM audio streams. This is true for both Apple and Windows computers (as well as any other sort of computer or phone that you can connect to a separate DAC).
What we're talking about here are the HARDWARE DRIVERS that enable the computer to actually connect to the DAC - the equivalent of printer drivers.
(Printer drivers enable the computer to "talk" to the printer; they have nothing to do with whether you can print a particular sort of document or not.) The PT1 utilizes a slightly proprietary version of the UAC2 (USB Audio Class 2) communication protocol. Apple computers come with the drivers for UAC2 "pre-installed" - and the standard drivers they provide work with the PT1. Likewise for many versions of Linux. However, while Windows 10 also includes pre-installed UAC2 drivers, the ones that currently come with Windows will NOT work with the PT1.
Therefore we provide a free Windows 10 driver for the PT1.
Once you install the drivers the PT1 will be able to play any audio file or stream that the software on your computer can play. (This driver installs by running a program - just like a printer driver.)
NOW HEAR THIS
1) The USB input on the PT1 now supports sample rates up to 24/192k (but you will need to install a driver for Windows 10 - although not for Apple computers).
Ordered! Looking forward to putting it through its paces. To clarify: will I not need drivers to support Apple lossless fed via the USB in? Or does the unit simply not support the Apple lossless input via USB at all? |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,256
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Post by KeithL on Jul 30, 2021 9:22:58 GMT -5
Just be sure to measure everything electronically... by sending test signals into the input and measuring the electrical signal at the output. (There is far more margin for error in this sort of measurements taken with speakers and microphones than in any imaginable electronic component...)
It's also worth noting, yet again, that how much difference individual parts make depends almost entirely on where they are used in a circuit. For example, many capacitors that work well in power supplies work very poorly for audio, and vice versa... Audiophiles love to make generalizations about so-called "premium parts"... Unfortunately those generalizations are quite often incorrect or taken far out of proper context...
Emotiva sales responded to an email of mine - other than the digital inputs themselves (leading directly to the DAC), nothing in the PT1 preamp happens in the digital domain. Subwoofer crossover, specifically, and presumably tone controls as well are all analog with no additional A-D / D-A conversions. This is good in theory. No intermediate swaps between digital and analog mean that the audio signal is minimally processed, and should stay free of digital artifacts. OTOH, it puts a great deal of importance on the accuracy of the capacitors and resistors used for the crossover and tone controls. Since the PT1 is a bargain product, how much attention was given to the parts used in (particularly) the 90 Hz. low and high pass crossovers? A plus or minus 20% capacitor might move the crossover frequency significantly. If the resistor is similarly plus or minus 20%, then the range is even greater. Since this is to be a second order crossover, more components will be involved. Part of my testing will be to use white noise and measure the actual crossover points. I'm curious to see not only how close they are to the specified 90 Hz., but also how well the low and high pass sections match. Also, being an economy product, I suspect that the use of components such as film capacitors and high-accuracy, low-noise metal film resistors has been minimized to meet the price point. The good news is that non-polarized electrolytic capacitors have the potential to sound a LOT better than they did even a decade ago. Also the noise characteristics of resistors are far better than they have historically been. So it's possible that even the absence of "desirable parts" is not the impediment to good sound that it once was. We'll see... Boomzilla |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,256
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Post by KeithL on Jul 30, 2021 9:47:01 GMT -5
Analog inputs on the PT1 remain analog all the way through.
The Volume control, the Tone controls, and the high-pass and low-pass bass management filters are all ANALOG.
Thanks, KeithL - So another question - If I use my Big Ego+ and run it into the analog input of my PT1, does the signal stay in the analog domain through the bass management? Or is there another A-D/D-A conversion to get the filtering of the PT1? It would seem that if the additional A-D/D-A conversion is required, I'd do better to keep my signal in the digital domain into the PT-1 inputs. |
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cyto
Minor Hero
Posts: 45
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Post by cyto on Jul 30, 2021 10:03:27 GMT -5
Anyone know the output impedance of the PT-1? I can't find it in the specs. Customer service just got back with me and it is 1k, in case anyone else is interested. |
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Post by sevenfeet on Aug 2, 2021 17:11:17 GMT -5
I’m interested in this since the feature set seems interesting especially at the price. I currently have a tube pre-amp from the ‘90s in the shop right now and due to the scarcity of parts, I may never get it back working. This isn’t tube but the price is nice and since I live in Nashville, picking one up just to audition is easy. And I don’t know if there is another analog pre-amp with bass management at this price. I sought out an SVS SB-13 Ultra some years back since high pass filters for bass management are going the way of the dinosaur in subs now. But a pre-amp with bass management eliminates that problem.
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Post by quattroll on Aug 2, 2021 21:46:20 GMT -5
That would be good news. Thanks garbulky. I trust you won’t be getting one as you’ve got all you need for now? It's not for me. I think my DC-1 is a little bit better than the PT-100 that I tried. That doesn't mean the Pt-100 sounded bad though. It sounded good  If you don't need all the features of the PT-1 I would go for a used DC-1. |
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Post by quattroll on Aug 2, 2021 21:52:39 GMT -5
Ok I just messed up the quote feature, but I recently picked up a second DC-1 as I also think it’s hard to beat. One analog in is all I need realistically as an FM tuner or phono application is all I would use. I did this because I swapped an XDA-2 in for my first DC-1 and I noticed the difference right away.
Does anyone have a recommendation for a xlr preamp besides the XSP that can best what is in the DC-1? I think it’s a gem given how much more I think I would need to spend. The Denafrips Hestia is beautiful and could fit the bill, but Im not sure the sonic characteristics are for me.
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Post by garbulky on Aug 2, 2021 22:03:20 GMT -5
Ok I just messed up the quote feature, but I recently picked up a second DC-1 as I also think it’s hard to beat. One analog in is all I need realistically as an FM tuner or phono application is all I would use. I did this because I swapped an XDA-2 in for my first DC-1 and I noticed the difference right away. Does anyone have a recommendation for a xlr preamp besides the XSP that can best what is in the DC-1? I think it’s a gem given how much more I think I would need to spend. The Denafrips Hestia is beautiful and could fit the bill, but Im not sure the sonic characteristics are for me. Hi! Actually, I thought the XSP-1 was less transparent than the DC-1. Weird, I know. There's no reason it should be... but it wasn't. Don't get me wrong the XSP-1 sounds really good and comes with this fantastic level of punch, but just lacks that last bit of transparency in treble extension and bass. The Schiit Freya sounded remarkably transparent. If you can get your hands on the Schiit Freya S it's pretty good. You may also want to check out the Topping Pre90. However, will they beat the DC-1? I don't know. The DC-1's analog input is really hard to beat (for the purposes of an upgrade). It doesn't feel like it should be all that good, but it is. |
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Post by quattroll on Aug 2, 2021 22:50:20 GMT -5
Thanks Gar, that helps a lot. I’ve been pondering a dac upgrade, but that doesn’t make too much sense unless you believe in the DC-1’s analog input! Just another reason why it is so good! I also have some PA-1s and it makes a crazy good compact stack. I have XPA-1L pair that I use with magnepan.7s and I have been swapping the two types of amps. No conclusions yet, but these are some of the finest “vintage” Emotiva products I have tried.
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If you don't need all the features of the PT-1 I would go for a used DC-1. 