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Post by omuracada on Aug 7, 2021 12:01:16 GMT -5
Ok for some strange reason my center channel is much lower than when I first hooked it up about a month ago. I am using the following, I have a pair of Martin Logan 13A (Expressions) and my center is the Martin Logan Focus which is not mounted on the wall and sitting on a stand (the switch telling it that it is on a stand and not a wall is also selected. I have two surrounds that are the Martin Logan slims. and SVS 3000 for sub. All cables at this time are SVS and everything is connected via XLR. My pre\amp is XMC-2 and my fronts each are hooked to a Emotiva monoblock HC1 and for now my center and surrounds are on a Emotiva Gen 3 XPA 7 channel(I plan to expand to 9 channels) .
I went to bed and woke up early to address this center channel problem, The dialog was so hard to hear over the left and right effects!
I decided to go with a factory rest of the XMC-2 and that did not correct it, however the fix I have found (for now) is as follows. If I bump up the center channel tone trim (the option not in speaker set up and not retained after shutting down the pre\amp) to +12db and then go into speaker setup and while using a low tone set the center channel level to +6db then I am absolutely rocking and rolling with dialog!!! In fact this is the only way for me to get the center channel to read 75db on the sound meter from my MLP. I do not believe this is a permeant fix, as this means I have to make sure I adjust the tone trim of the Center channel every time I turn the system on. I will say it was fine 48 hours ago without doing any of this and not sure for the life of me why its happening now! Is it better for me to head to the speaker parametric Equalizer and mess with things there specific to center channel filter as at least the settings are saved with that option. The challenge is I am new to this level of Home theater setup and adjustments and not sure if it is a good idea or not, as well as what options within the filter to adjust. Also note I have not run DIRAC yet.
Any assistance is appreciated as I am soooo close to dialing this system in and this is the last challenge prior to trying out DIRAC!
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Post by novisnick on Aug 7, 2021 12:25:39 GMT -5
Ok for some strange reason my center channel is much lower than when I first hooked it up about a month ago. I am using the following, I have a pair of Martin Logan 13A (Expressions) and my center is the Martin Logan Focus which is not mounted on the wall and sitting on a stand (the switch telling it that it is on a stand and not a wall is also selected. I have two surrounds that are the Martin Logan slims. and SVS 3000 for sub. All cables at this time are SVS and everything is connected via XLR. My pre\amp is XMC-2 and my fronts each are hooked to a Emotiva monoblock HC1 and for now my center and surrounds are on a Emotiva Gen 3 XPA 7 channel(I plan to expand to 9 channels) . I went to bed and woke up early to address this center channel problem, The dialog was so hard to hear over the left and right effects! I decided to go with a factory rest of the XMC-2 and that did not correct it, however the fix I have found (for now) is as follows. If I bump up the center channel tone trim (the option not in speaker set up and not retained after shutting down the pre\amp) to +12db and then go into speaker setup and while using a low tone set the center channel level to +6db then I am absolutely rocking and rolling with dialog!!! In fact this is the only way for me to get the center channel to read 75db on the sound meter from my MLP. I do not believe this is a permeant fix, as this means I have to make sure I adjust the tone trim of the Center channel every time I turn the system on. I will say it was fine 48 hours ago without doing any of this and not sure for the life of me why its happening now! Is it better for me to head to the speaker parametric Equalizer and mess with things there specific to center channel filter as at least the settings are saved with that option. The challenge is I am new to this level of Home theater setup and adjustments and not sure if it is a good idea or not, as well as what options within the filter to adjust. Also note I have not run DIRAC yet. Any assistance is appreciated as I am soooo close to dialing this system in and this is the last challenge prior to trying out DIRAC! I have the RMC-1 and have noticed the lack of center channel since installing the latest FW, at first I thought it was just me. I usually watch shows at -19 but have been turning it up more and more to hear it. I’ve never experienced this phenomenon before. Any help for this odd behavior would be greatly appreciated! |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 7, 2021 12:43:51 GMT -5
If you believe the center speaker now has less output than before, I would start by setting the LCR all to 0, measure the level of the three speakers, with the system off swap the center speaker cable with the left or right speaker, measure again. This should tell you if it’s the center channel, or the center speaker.
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Post by omuracada on Aug 7, 2021 13:03:27 GMT -5
If you believe the center speaker now has less output than before, I would start by setting the LCR all to 0, measure the level of the three speakers, with the system off swap the center speaker cable with the left or right speaker, measure again. This should tell you if it’s the center channel, or the center speaker. I did that as well prior to factory reset. I took my center from its current amp and put it on the HC1 monoblock. I also swapped out XLR cables and no difference. The only reason I do not believe it to be the new firmware for me (just my opinion) is I updated it the day the new firmaware came out and my center was working with it until yesterday!? So far my fix is the only way not to have to kill my ears to hear the center channel! Until we figure this out I just have to remember to up the trim on center to +12db:( |
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Post by novisnick on Aug 7, 2021 13:16:39 GMT -5
If you believe the center speaker now has less output than before, I would start by setting the LCR all to 0, measure the level of the three speakers, with the system off swap the center speaker cable with the left or right speaker, measure again. This should tell you if it’s the center channel, or the center speaker. Im pretty sure its the center channel, without testing. Watched a show, installed new FW. Went back to same show and now its dropped 5 db. According to your statement, I’m correct! LOL All kidding aside, I’ll humor you but I really don’t think its the center speaker. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 7, 2021 13:49:41 GMT -5
If you believe the center speaker now has less output than before, I would start by setting the LCR all to 0, measure the level of the three speakers, with the system off swap the center speaker cable with the left or right speaker, measure again. This should tell you if it’s the center channel, or the center speaker. I did that as well prior to factory reset. I took my center from its current amp and put it on the HC1 monoblock. I also swapped out XLR cables and no difference. The only reason I do not believe it to be the new firmware for me (just my opinion) is I updated it the day the new firmaware came out and my center was working with it until yesterday!? So far my fix is the only way not to have to kill my ears to hear the center channel! Until we figure this out I just have to remember to up the trim on center to +12db:( So when you say “no difference”, what does that mean? Either the center speaker remained lower in output, or the center channel remained lower, which one? I have no reason to believe it’s FW2.3 as many have installed it, including myself, without this being mentioned. |
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
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Post by ttocs on Aug 7, 2021 13:55:55 GMT -5
I did that as well prior to factory reset. I took my center from its current amp and put it on the HC1 monoblock. I also swapped out XLR cables and no difference. The only reason I do not believe it to be the new firmware for me (just my opinion) is I updated it the day the new firmaware came out and my center was working with it until yesterday!? So far my fix is the only way not to have to kill my ears to hear the center channel! Until we figure this out I just have to remember to up the trim on center to +12db:( Try this: Factory Reset Cold Boot, rear switch off for at least two minutes. Change nothing after startup, and go to Menu:Setup:Speakers:Preset 1:Levels and measure Left, Center, and Right channels, and let us know the results. |
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Post by novisnick on Aug 7, 2021 15:35:51 GMT -5
AudioHTIT Before I went through the trouble of trying your testI decided to check all my levels. For some reason that I haven’t a clue about my center channel level had dropped down and was no longer at the proper setting, 4 db lower then it should have been. I don’t have children in the house and I don’t drink or do drugs so I haven’t a clue how they got altered. Thanks for the input! ❤️
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 7, 2021 15:45:48 GMT -5
Ok for some strange reason my center channel is much lower than when I first hooked it up about a month ago. I am using the following, I have a pair of Martin Logan 13A (Expressions) and my center is the Martin Logan Focus which is not mounted on the wall and sitting on a stand (the switch telling it that it is on a stand and not a wall is also selected. I have two surrounds that are the Martin Logan slims. and SVS 3000 for sub. All cables at this time are SVS and everything is connected via XLR. My pre\amp is XMC-2 and my fronts each are hooked to a Emotiva monoblock HC1 and for now my center and surrounds are on a Emotiva Gen 3 XPA 7 channel(I plan to expand to 9 channels) . I went to bed and woke up early to address this center channel problem, The dialog was so hard to hear over the left and right effects! I decided to go with a factory rest of the XMC-2 and that did not correct it, however the fix I have found (for now) is as follows. If I bump up the center channel tone trim (the option not in speaker set up and not retained after shutting down the pre\amp) to +12db and then go into speaker setup and while using a low tone set the center channel level to +6db then I am absolutely rocking and rolling with dialog!!! In fact this is the only way for me to get the center channel to read 75db on the sound meter from my MLP. I do not believe this is a permeant fix, as this means I have to make sure I adjust the tone trim of the Center channel every time I turn the system on. I will say it was fine 48 hours ago without doing any of this and not sure for the life of me why its happening now! Is it better for me to head to the speaker parametric Equalizer and mess with things there specific to center channel filter as at least the settings are saved with that option. The challenge is I am new to this level of Home theater setup and adjustments and not sure if it is a good idea or not, as well as what options within the filter to adjust. Also note I have not run DIRAC yet. Any assistance is appreciated as I am soooo close to dialing this system in and this is the last challenge prior to trying out DIRAC! That switch on the Focus has me curious…. Putting aside the centers physical location for the moment, can you take SPL readings from both switch positions? |
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Post by omuracada on Aug 7, 2021 15:51:37 GMT -5
Ok for some strange reason my center channel is much lower than when I first hooked it up about a month ago. I am using the following, I have a pair of Martin Logan 13A (Expressions) and my center is the Martin Logan Focus which is not mounted on the wall and sitting on a stand (the switch telling it that it is on a stand and not a wall is also selected. I have two surrounds that are the Martin Logan slims. and SVS 3000 for sub. All cables at this time are SVS and everything is connected via XLR. My pre\amp is XMC-2 and my fronts each are hooked to a Emotiva monoblock HC1 and for now my center and surrounds are on a Emotiva Gen 3 XPA 7 channel(I plan to expand to 9 channels) . I went to bed and woke up early to address this center channel problem, The dialog was so hard to hear over the left and right effects! I decided to go with a factory rest of the XMC-2 and that did not correct it, however the fix I have found (for now) is as follows. If I bump up the center channel tone trim (the option not in speaker set up and not retained after shutting down the pre\amp) to +12db and then go into speaker setup and while using a low tone set the center channel level to +6db then I am absolutely rocking and rolling with dialog!!! In fact this is the only way for me to get the center channel to read 75db on the sound meter from my MLP. I do not believe this is a permeant fix, as this means I have to make sure I adjust the tone trim of the Center channel every time I turn the system on. I will say it was fine 48 hours ago without doing any of this and not sure for the life of me why its happening now! Is it better for me to head to the speaker parametric Equalizer and mess with things there specific to center channel filter as at least the settings are saved with that option. The challenge is I am new to this level of Home theater setup and adjustments and not sure if it is a good idea or not, as well as what options within the filter to adjust. Also note I have not run DIRAC yet. Any assistance is appreciated as I am soooo close to dialing this system in and this is the last challenge prior to trying out DIRAC! That switch on the Focus has me curious…. Putting aside the centers physical location for the moment, can you take SPL readings from both switch positions? Headed out for dinner however when I get home tonight I will take a SPL with the switch in both settings, I will also try to hard boot with plug out for 2min and then without touching anything will measure all front speakers! I watched a movie a bit ago and if I can just get the center to preform without using the tone trim I will be in heaven! |
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Post by omuracada on Aug 7, 2021 15:55:09 GMT -5
I did that as well prior to factory reset. I took my center from its current amp and put it on the HC1 monoblock. I also swapped out XLR cables and no difference. The only reason I do not believe it to be the new firmware for me (just my opinion) is I updated it the day the new firmaware came out and my center was working with it until yesterday!? So far my fix is the only way not to have to kill my ears to hear the center channel! Until we figure this out I just have to remember to up the trim on center to +12db:( So when you say “no difference”, what does that mean? Either the center speaker remained lower in output, or the center channel remained lower, which one? I have no reason to believe it’s FW2.3 as many have installed it, including myself, without this being mentioned. Sorry, I am not sure I know the difference between lower in output or just remained lower. When i switched inputs on the amps the center channel still was very low when it came to dialog. Does that mean the output remained lower or the CC remained lower. When I get back from dinner I will try the tests i mentioned and will also again swap the speakers on the amps and see if I see any differences. May be I missed something I was not looking for? |
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,154
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Post by ttocs on Aug 7, 2021 16:23:25 GMT -5
That switch on the Focus has me curious…. Putting aside the centers physical location for the moment, can you take SPL readings from both switch positions? The Focus is the much improved version of my much older Motif. The switch is an On-Wall / Off-Wall shelf filter contour switch which alters the response by a few dB below a threshold, which on mine is below about 400Hz mostly and trails downward up to about 650Hz. The green line is Off-Wall, red line is On-Wall and is how mine is set being that it's mounted on-wall. It's a 3dB difference.  |
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
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Post by ttocs on Aug 7, 2021 16:28:46 GMT -5
omuracada Try this first please. I just realized what might be the issue. This happens with my stats from time to time where the power for the stat panel needs to be unplugged for about 10 minutes or so. Sometimes the sensing circuit needs to be burped. This happens more with my Expressions than my Motif, but it happens with them all. With your Focus, like my Motif, when the stat panel is not active, you'll get woofers and tweeter but no panel so the sound will be at a much reduced volume level. The stat panel is where most of the vocals are coming from.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 7, 2021 16:34:18 GMT -5
So when you say “no difference”, what does that mean? Either the center speaker remained lower in output, or the center channel remained lower, which one? I have no reason to believe it’s FW2.3 as many have installed it, including myself, without this being mentioned. Sorry, I am not sure I know the difference between lower in output or just remained lower. When i switched inputs on the amps the center channel still was very low when it came to dialog. Does that mean the output remained lower or the CC remained lower. When I get back from dinner I will try the tests i mentioned and will also again swap the speakers on the amps and see if I see any differences. May be I missed something I was not looking for? Ok, you did a different test than I outlined, if we’re troubleshooting we need to stay on the same page, re-read my comment, I asked you to move the speaker wires, not the amp cables. So we don’t know if you have a speaker problem, but it seems like you don’t have an amp problem. Edit: Since you can only follow one of us, I’ll bow out. |
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Post by omuracada on Aug 7, 2021 16:43:51 GMT -5
omuracada Try this first please. I just realized what might be the issue. This happens with my stats from time to time where the power for the stat panel needs to be unplugged for about 10 minutes or so. Sometimes the sensing circuit needs to be burped. This happens more with my Expressions than my Motif, but it happens with them all. With your Focus, like my Motif, when the stat panel is not active, you'll get woofers and tweeter but no panel so the sound will be at a much reduced volume level. The stat panel is where most of the vocals are coming from. Interesting as this could be it. I will see if I can try this before I leave for dinner. Will follow up shortly |
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Post by omuracada on Aug 7, 2021 16:47:30 GMT -5
Sorry, I am not sure I know the difference between lower in output or just remained lower. When i switched inputs on the amps the center channel still was very low when it came to dialog. Does that mean the output remained lower or the CC remained lower. When I get back from dinner I will try the tests i mentioned and will also again swap the speakers on the amps and see if I see any differences. May be I missed something I was not looking for? Ok, you did a different test than I outlined, if we’re troubleshooting we need to stay on the same page, re-read my comment, I asked you to move the speaker wires, not the amp cables. So we don’t know if you have a speaker problem, but it seems like you don’t have an amp problem. Edit: Since you can only follow one of us, I’ll bow out. My apologies as I must suck at the written English language;) I am so sorry I was not clear, yes in that test I physically moved my center channel speaker wire off of the one amp and onto the monoblock HC-1. Is that what you wanted me to try? if that is the case when I made the speaker cable swap there was no difference in sound with the center channel. The right speaker that I swapped the center channel with was load as can be after the swap. You are correct I also changed out the XLR cables, however I understand that was not what you were asking. Regardless I appreciate your assistance in making the attempt! everything is helpful as I live in a one team one dream world! |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 7, 2021 17:13:22 GMT -5
Ok, you did a different test than I outlined, if we’re troubleshooting we need to stay on the same page, re-read my comment, I asked you to move the speaker wires, not the amp cables. So we don’t know if you have a speaker problem, but it seems like you don’t have an amp problem. Edit: Since you can only follow one of us, I’ll bow out. My apologies as I must suck at the written English language;) I am so sorry I was not clear, yes in that test I physically moved my center channel speaker wire off of the one amp and onto the monoblock HC-1. Is that what you wanted me to try? if that is the case when I made the speaker cable swap there was no difference in sound with the center channel. The right speaker that I swapped the center channel with was load as can be after the swap. You are correct I also changed out the XLR cables, however I understand that was not what you were asking. Regardless I appreciate your assistance in making the attempt! everything is helpful as I live in a one team one dream world! Ok, if you swapped speaker cables — at the amp end (I wasn’t clear but meant the speaker end), and the center speaker remained lower in output, then I’d say you either have a speaker, or speaker cable problem. |
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Post by omuracada on Aug 7, 2021 17:28:25 GMT -5
omuracada Try this first please. I just realized what might be the issue. This happens with my stats from time to time where the power for the stat panel needs to be unplugged for about 10 minutes or so. Sometimes the sensing circuit needs to be burped. This happens more with my Expressions than my Motif, but it happens with them all. With your Focus, like my Motif, when the stat panel is not active, you'll get woofers and tweeter but no panel so the sound will be at a much reduced volume level. The stat panel is where most of the vocals are coming from. Interesting as this could be it. I will see if I can try this before I leave for dinner. Will follow up shortly Well I really wanted that to work! I left it unplugged for 20+ minutes and after plugging it back in I took the spl and without the tone trim it measures about 68db when at +12db from MLP. If I bump that to 6 and increase the tone trim to +12 then I get a strong 75+db from MLP and the movie dialog sounds crystal clear and loud! |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Aug 7, 2021 17:36:42 GMT -5
Interesting as this could be it. I will see if I can try this before I leave for dinner. Will follow up shortly Well I really wanted that to work! I left it unplugged for 20+ minutes and after plugging it back in I took the spl and without the tone trim it measures about 68db when at +12db from MLP. If I bump that to 6 and increase the tone trim to +12 then I get a strong 75+db from MLP and the movie dialog sounds crystal clear and loud! Are you certain that the power supply for the panel is working? Are you able to play a 1000Hz tone through it? Not pink noise, it needs to be a single frequency tone. This is to determine if the panel is not active. 1000Hz is far enough away from the crossovers in the speaker so the woofers and tweeter won't be active. Otherwise, you'd be forced to put your ear very close - but not touching - the panel, while covering the tweeter with a hand. |
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Post by omuracada on Aug 7, 2021 21:07:42 GMT -5
Not sure however on my way home and will find out. Is there any chance that this is due to the focus breaking in. It's a month old and was not sure if it takes a bit for it to settle into itself.
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