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Post by marcl on May 24, 2022 5:29:08 GMT -5
When we talk about our gear, our rooms, our music sources ... how we love how they sound, or don't ... our impressions of imaging, soundstage, sound quality ... what is our reference for what "good" sounds like, vs "great"? Is it our memory of a live performance? Is it our memory of some other room or system or source that we once heard?
I'm going to kick things off with some thoughts about a recent live performance I attended. And maybe others can share their experiences with live performances also, and how they relate to the listening experience at home.
Of course, I'll include photos and even measurements (surprise!) when I can.
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Post by marcl on May 24, 2022 6:20:30 GMT -5
We were able to attend two performances of the Philadelphia Chamber Orchestra in the Perelman Theater at the Kimmel Center in Philadelphia this year. It's an excellent room, acoustically. It seats 650, but has configuration options enabled by its rotating stage and the ability to even hide the main floor seating and lift a flat floor. In the normal concert form there is an orchestra pit which can be lowered in front of the stage, or raised to fit two more rows of seats. When we were there in February they joked about how the pit was stuck in the down position, presenting an ominous void a couple feet from the conductor's platform. But last night it was still down. No harm, we sat in the fifth row behind the pit in February, and in the third last night. Interestingly, the price of the first three rows is less than the next few rows. I decided to sit closer and see how it sounded. The VenueView from row 5  View from row 3  Exaggerated by the wide angle, but I'd estimate row 3 is about 15ft from the edge of the stage. The sound was excellent both times, and sitting closer did not diminish the experience at all. The orchestra configuration varied with each piece of music from a minimum of 20 strings to a maximum of 30 pieces adding woodwinds, brass and percussion. Notice that for the February performance the stage was in the concert configuration, rotated to include the seating behind the performers. For last night's performance the stage was rotated to the theater configuration, with reflectors added behind the performers. I won't claim that my musical memory is good enough to remember details of any difference, other than to say I felt even being only two rows closer last night, the sound was a bit louder. Imaging and SoundstageAs I listened, I tried to be aware of the location of instruments and the sense of depth and breadth of the sound. I did so with eyes open and closed. Crescendos filled the space but were not overwhelming. One particular passage last night featured very, very quiet pizzicato strings that revealed more detail of the sources of the sound than the louder passages. The notes danced all over the stage. But generally, imaging was like ... well these violins are kind of coming from somewhere on the left, and brass and woodwinds are vaguely in the center but farther away, and those low notes from the basses and cellos are more to the right. At moderate volume it was a pleasantly vague wash of sound that blended well but did not highlight any instrument. Reference VolumeWe often talk about the concept of "reference volume" and I often hear justification for boosted bass in home systems because of course our hearing is not as sensitive to bass "below reference levels". But what is the reference? Live concert? Recording studio control room? Best I've been able to find in research is that it can be 75-85db for mixing in a studio. Of course I've been to concerts where it was a sustained 110db with bowel-wrenching bass boosted +10db below 100Hz 40ft from the stage (Parliament Funkadelic!). Well I sometimes manage to discreetly pull out my phone and use the AudioTools SPL meter and FFT to measure live music. I once measured peak volume of the full Philadelphia Orchestra from row 20 in the large Verizon Hall at 95db, but sustained levels were much lower. Last night the 30 piece chamber orchestra managed 87db peak on a couple of crescendos of Mozart's "Jupiter" Symphony when the tympani and brass came in. But generally levels were in the 60-70db range and even as quiet as 47db in those delicate pizzicato passages. My room at home manages a 41db noise floor with the A/C not blowing and refrigerator compressor off. Even with far less than a full house last night, I would guess "quiet" in the Perelman Theater was no less than that. So the orchestra managed a dynamic range of about 40db across the full range of music played last night. And I routinely listen at those volumes in my room ... 85db + a bit is very comfortable. Hopefully this summer we'll attend some of the "Concerts in the Garden" series with the orchestra and I'll gather some similar impressions from the outdoor setting. A recording of Mozart symphonies by the Philadelphia Chamber Orchestra, and recorded at the Perelman Theater, can be found here ... www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8034697--young-mozartThe microphones were up last night so hopefully that performance will be available sometime as well. |
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Post by 405x5 on May 24, 2022 7:10:23 GMT -5
Unless youâre attending an âunplugged â performance, live performances these days (and for a very long time quite frankly), are barely âliveâ at all.
The spontaneity off it all is always there and that comes from the bond between the audience and the performers, but the audio quality rests in the hands of the sound crew and the gear thatâs employed at the venue.
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Post by marcl on May 24, 2022 7:18:40 GMT -5
Unless youâre attending an âunplugged â performance, live performances these days (and for a very long time quite frankly) are barely âliveâ all. The spontaneity off it all is always there and that comes from the bond between the audience and the performers but the audio quality rests in the hands of the sound crew and the gear thatâs employed at the venue. Yes and often with frustratingly horrible results as I witness every year at Newport Jazz Festival. Just once I'd like to go up to the sound man and ask "did the performer TELL you to boost all the bass below 100Hz +10db so we can't hear anything else ... or was that YOUR bright idea??!!!" Fortunately, most of the performers that I want to see don't suffer this affliction. But last year when I heard the sound check for the very first band - an acoustic Latin jazz quintet - I witnessed the guy purposely turn the 80Hz bass drum up to +10db. I hope with this thread people will share their positive experiences ... both plugged and unplugged. |
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Post by Jean Genie on May 24, 2022 9:48:22 GMT -5
Unless youâre attending an âunplugged â performance, live performances these days (and for a very long time quite frankly) are barely âliveâ all. The spontaneity off it all is always there and that comes from the bond between the audience and the performers but the audio quality rests in the hands of the sound crew and the gear thatâs employed at the venue. Yes and often with frustratingly horrible results as I witness every year at Newport Jazz Festival. Just once I'd like to go up to the sound man and ask "did the performer TELL you to boost all the bass below 100Hz +10db so we can't hear anything else ... or was that YOUR bright idea??!!!" Fortunately, most of the performers that I want to see don't suffer this affliction. But last year when I heard the sound check for the very first band - an acoustic Latin jazz quintet - I witnessed the guy purposely turn the 80Hz bass drum up to +10db. I hope with this thread people will share their positive experiences ... both plugged and unplugged. A couple years ago, I attended a live performance by Bela Fleck (5 string banjo; guitar) & Edgar Meyer (double bass; grand piano) at the Keswick theatre, a former movie theater converted to a music venue, in Glenside, Pa. where both the performance and sound were superb.I Post performance, I was able to speak with the affable, accessible sound engineer, Randy, while the theater emptied. I complemented him on the impeccable quality of the show's sound and asked about the mics he used to convey it. Vintage Neumann U-87s, of course. He talked about the difficulties and differences acoustic string instruments presented and how he truly enjoyed blending them for the performers, in their monitors, and for the house via the P.A. He preferred listening to the sound of the venue, to hear what the audience was hearing, and making necessary adjustments to the house, resorting to cans only to tweak the monitors. Having endured poorly presented sound assaults from both sides of the stage, I thought his insight and expertise were refreshing and spot on. That concert and conversation are among my favorite musical memories. |
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Post by marcl on May 24, 2022 11:05:25 GMT -5
Yes and often with frustratingly horrible results as I witness every year at Newport Jazz Festival. Just once I'd like to go up to the sound man and ask "did the performer TELL you to boost all the bass below 100Hz +10db so we can't hear anything else ... or was that YOUR bright idea??!!!" Fortunately, most of the performers that I want to see don't suffer this affliction. But last year when I heard the sound check for the very first band - an acoustic Latin jazz quintet - I witnessed the guy purposely turn the 80Hz bass drum up to +10db. I hope with this thread people will share their positive experiences ... both plugged and unplugged. A couple years ago, I attended a live performance by Bela Fleck (5 string banjo; guitar) & Edgar Meyer (double bass; grand piano) at the Keswick theatre, a former movie theater converted to a music venue, in Glenside, Pa. where both the performance and sound were superb.I Post performance, I was able to speak with the affable, accessible sound engineer, Randy, while the theater emptied. I complemented him on the impeccable quality of the show's sound and asked about the mics he used to convey it. Vintage Neumann U-87s, of course. He talked about the difficulties and differences acoustic string instruments presented and how he truly enjoyed blending them for the performers, in their monitors, and for the house via the P.A. He preferred listening to the sound of the venue, to hear what the audience was hearing, and making necessary adjustments to the house, resorting to cans only to tweak the monitors. Having endured poorly presented sound assaults from both sides of the stage, I thought his insight and expertise were refreshing and spot on. That concert and conversation are among my favorite musical memories. If that was the Melody of Rhythm tour with Zakir Hussain ... I was there  Every show I've been to at the Keswick has sounded great, from Patricia Barber or Chick Corea solo piano, to Tower of Power and AWB. It's a great room and they do the sound really well! |
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Post by marcl on May 24, 2022 12:13:59 GMT -5
Since I noticed that the Young Mozart recording was the Chamber Orchestra of Philadelphia playing in the Perelman Theater, my wife and I listened to it today. It includes a violin concerto and symphony, so very similar to last night's program. I played it at similar volume to what we heard last night, with the loudest passages around 85db. I'll take a leap and guess that the instrumentation was similar, and the recording mics probably set up similarly to the way they were last night as shown below ...  Did I hear differences between the recording and the live performance? Well within the limits of memory of such things, there was definitely stronger bass in the recording. And the horns seemed more prominent than in the live performance. I felt like the clarity of the strings was a bit brighter and well defined. And the soloist stood out a bit more from the orchestra. All these things were relatively subtle within the framework of a sound that was substantially similar to what we heard in the theater. These effects would also follow logically from the difference between the microphone perspective and our seats 15ft from the stage, and could also be the result of mastering and EQ of the recording. Not particularly earth-shaking observations ... just interesting to take advantage of the opportunity.. |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on May 25, 2022 8:15:49 GMT -5
There are several Live performances I can use as reference for how good things can get. The one and only standout is a Pink Floyd concert about 30 years ago at what was known as the Rosemont Horizon, which was also known for poor acoustics. Pink Floyd used only their own sound equipment and brought in lots of acoustic treatments. Iâd never before, nor since, seen this venue decked out the way it was that night. That concert is what brought to my attention how good bass could be and what I was missing in my home system. My current system and setup is finally close to how I remember that concert to sound. It was far and away the best sound Iâve experienced at a Live show.
Almost all Live performances Iâve gone to have been enjoyable with very few being notably poor enough to affect my enjoyment, and one I walked out of because it was downright awful and that was Yes at the aforementioned Rosemont Horizon. I just couldnât take the distortion, not from the volume, but from what had to be fried speakers.
Small clubs can suffer a lot simply from being too small. They rely on the bands to make things work, and sometimes it just doesnât but it can still be enjoyable because of the bandâs energy. One example is when the stage monitor was feeding back into the singerâs mic, which had to be turned down then the guitar was too loud so it was turned down, then the drums were too loud, etc, etc, etc. But it was fun because the band members were friends of a friend. They tried.
And then thereâs a concert last year at a great outdoor venue, well, thereâs a roof over the amphitheater, but the acoustics are great for such a place. It was a King Crimson concert at Ravinia Festival. The warm up band, while good, sounded terrible due to waaaaaaaay too much low bass from the drums. Between bands I spoke to the audio engineer I saw and found out that he did not mix the first band, he only works for King Crimson, and he assured me that I would have no complaints, and I didnât. The sound was as perfect as it could be, which is good considering Iâll never be able to go to another KC concert again.
Speaking of outdoor venues, thereâs a large one in Tinley Park IL that Iâve been to many times. One time we had seats just a bit too far back in the amphitheater and there was a lot of bass bloat that was uncomfortable. Me and a buddy walked closer to the stage and also just outside of the amphitheater to check the sound and discovered the sound was great if we sat on the grass just behind the roof, so the rest of the group moved to this location and it was fantastic. The last few times weâve been there we just stake out our spot on the grass and itâs been great each time.
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Post by 405x5 on May 25, 2022 10:24:40 GMT -5
Yes and often with frustratingly horrible results as I witness every year at Newport Jazz Festival. Just once I'd like to go up to the sound man and ask "did the performer TELL you to boost all the bass below 100Hz +10db so we can't hear anything else ... or was that YOUR bright idea??!!!" Fortunately, most of the performers that I want to see don't suffer this affliction. But last year when I heard the sound check for the very first band - an acoustic Latin jazz quintet - I witnessed the guy purposely turn the 80Hz bass drum up to +10db. I hope with this thread people will share their positive experiences ... both plugged and unplugged.   A couple years ago, I attended a live performance by Bela Fleck (5 string banjo; guitar) & Edgar Meyer (double bass; grand piano) at the Keswick theatre, a former movie theater converted to a music venue, in Glenside, Pa. where both the performance and sound were superb.I   Post performance, I was able to speak with the affable, accessible sound engineer, Randy, while the theater emptied. I complemented him on the impeccable quality of the show's sound and asked about the mics he used to convey it. Vintage Neumann U-87s, of course.   He talked about the difficulties and differences acoustic string instruments presented and how he truly enjoyed blending them for the performers, in their monitors, and for the house via the P.A.   He preferred listening to the sound of the venue, to hear what the audience was hearing, and making necessary adjustments to the house, resorting to cans only to tweak the monitors. Having endured poorly presented sound assaults from both sides of the stage, I thought his insight and expertise were refreshing and spot on. That concert and conversation are among my favorite musical memories. Oh yeah! I saw Bela at The Paramount in Peekskill NyâŚ..One of my all time favorite concert halls for both the natural acoustics and great in house sound equipment. Also, a few years ago now. The ONLY guy I missed that night was Jeff Coffin the sax đˇ player. Victor Wooten and âFuture Manâ were ever present however. |
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Post by Jean Genie on May 27, 2022 14:47:30 GMT -5
Every show I've been to at the Keswick has sounded great, from Patricia Barber or Chick Corea solo piano, to Tower of Power and AWB. It's a great room and they do the sound really well! Me too . . . almost. Last year, I and a friend went there to see The Mavericks and we walked out holding our ears. It was the loudest, most unintentionally distorted concert I have ever attended. It was louder than the Emerson, Lake & Palmer show I saw at the old Wildwood, NJ. convention hall! At least Keith Emerson 's distorted Hammond B2 was SUPPOSED to sound that wayđ
đ |
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Post by marcl on May 27, 2022 14:54:48 GMT -5
Every show I've been to at the Keswick has sounded great, from Patricia Barber or Chick Corea solo piano, to Tower of Power and AWB. It's a great room and they do the sound really well! Me too . . . almost. Last year, I and a friend went there to see The Mavericks and we walked out holding our ears. It was the loudest, most unintentionally distorted concert I have ever attended. It was louder than the Emerson, Lake & Palmer show I saw at the old Wildwood, NJ. convention hall! At least Keith Emerson 's distorted Hammond B2 was SUPPOSED to sound that wayđ
đ The Mavericks played the Philly Folk Fest a few years ago. It was horrible ... SO LOUD. The Fest used to have amazingly good sound but over the years it started to vary so much from band to band and often unlistenably loud. Stopped going, even though I live only 9 miles away. I saw ELP at the Spectrum, but I was sitting at the far opposite end of the room on the balcony. Time delay was more of an issue than volume. |
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Post by marcl on Aug 2, 2022 9:32:45 GMT -5
Live is Dead ... well, at least for me and the Newport Jazz Festival ... until someone can tell me otherwise. I guess in 2019 it must have been loud because after it was cancelled in 2020 and we returned in 2021 I bought some earplugs that claim to reduce volume about 10db without affecting sound quality. I used them some in 2021, and they worked except ... when the bass is +10-15db uniformly below 100Hz, masking most of the rest of the sound, the earplugs don't do anything but bring everything down. It still sounds terrible! So this year ... all I can say is it was worse, the bass boost was there on EVERY band to some degree, and it ranged from somewhat tolerable to "get me outa here!". We saw 22 bands on three stages. It was intentional, and not a mistake by one rogue soundman or another. I heard the sound checks and heard the live sound, I walked around - though this being outdoors the location didn't change the sound much. As much as 100-200-300ft from the stage the bass drum specifically and all bass content below 100Hz was not only elevated, but also compressed to sustain the BOOOM. The bass drum sound masked the tom toms. The bass masked any other instruments with a lower register. Example: Cory Wong's band plays funk/fusion with a standard rhythm section and six horns. The bass and drums should lay down a funk bottom end, but they shouldn't obscure anything. I was sitting 300ft from the stage, and it was LOUD. I picked a moment when the whole horn section was featured playing together for a chorus ... a time when one should be able to clearly HEAR the horn section, up front and not in the background. Here's what it should sound like, their recent YouTube video, same band: Here's a FFT screen shot of the video playing in my room at home:  And here's what it sounded like 300ft from the stage last Saturday:  It's sad because for six previous years the sound was nearly 100% excellent at all stages. Even the more pop-oriented Saturday night headliners were loud but mostly balanced. Now ... even a quartet with all acoustic instruments was likely to have a booming bass drum, and a double bass that boomed in the lower register and in the upper register sounded like rubber bands on a cardboard box. Alas .... |
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Post by jbrunwa on Aug 2, 2022 13:29:54 GMT -5
Live is Dead ... well, at least for me and the Newport Jazz Festival ... until someone can tell me otherwise. I guess in 2019 it must have been loud because after it was cancelled in 2020 and we returned in 2021 I bought some earplugs that claim to reduce volume about 10db without affecting sound quality. I used them some in 2021, and they worked except ... when the bass is +10-15db uniformly below 100Hz, masking most of the rest of the sound, the earplugs don't do anything but bring everything down. It still sounds terrible! So this year ... all I can say is it was worse, the bass boost was there on EVERY band to some degree, and it ranged from somewhat tolerable to "get me outa here!". We saw 22 bands on three stages. It was intentional, and not a mistake by one rogue soundman or another. I heard the sound checks and heard the live sound, I walked around - though this being outdoors the location didn't change the sound much. As much as 100-200-300ft from the stage the bass drum specifically and all bass content below 100Hz was not only elevated, but also compressed to sustain the BOOOM. The bass drum sound masked the tom toms. The bass masked any other instruments with a lower register. Example: Cory Wong's band plays funk/fusion with a standard rhythm section and six horns. The bass and drums should lay down a funk bottom end, but they shouldn't obscure anything. I was sitting 300ft from the stage, and it was LOUD. I picked a moment when the whole horn section was featured playing together for a chorus ... a time when one should be able to clearly HEAR the horn section, up front and not in the background. Here's what it should sound like, their recent YouTube video, same band: Here's a FFT screen shot of the video playing in my room at home: View AttachmentAnd here's what it sounded like 300ft from the stage last Saturday: View AttachmentIt's sad because for six previous years the sound was nearly 100% excellent at all stages. Even the more pop-oriented Saturday night headliners were loud but mostly balanced. Now ... even a quartet with all acoustic instruments was likely to have a booming bass drum, and a double bass that boomed in the lower register and in the upper register sounded like rubber bands on a cardboard box. Alas .... I've decided to not attend live events in person any more. I like to stream live events when they are well produced. I have bought tickets to several live events at mandolin.com and thought that it was overall pretty well produced with good sound quality on my HT. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 2, 2022 0:00:54 GMT -5
I was fortunate this week to see probably my favorite âcurrentâ band â actually theyâre only recently current again after breaking up about ten years ago). On Wednesday I went to the San Francisco Masonic Auditorium to see Porcupine Tree! They are currently on tour promoting their recent album âClosure / Continuationâ (which they played completely, although not in order). I assume some of the Proggers here are familiar with them as staring in the â90s, Steven Wilson and Company have carried on the Progressive Rock mantle started in the late 60s / early 70s by the likes of King Crimson, ELP, Yes, early Genesis, Pink Floyd, and many more (this music became the core of my listening for many years). I was introduced to PT by a co-worker in the 2Ks when he brought in the CD âIn Absentiaâ for me to listen to, I was blown away by their precision, power, and ability to turn on a dime, and take a song from raucous to sublime. Some would classify them as Prog Metal and Iâm comfortable with that genre for many of their songs, but I call them Prog. I should add Iâm a fan of Steven Wilsonâs solo career as well. Officially Porcupine Tree now consists of: songwriter / vocalist / guitarist / keyboard player / producer / engineer and rock visionary â Steven Wilson; Piano / Keyboard / Synthesizer / Sound player â Richard Barbieri; and drummer / percussionist Gavin Harrison. On tour they added bassist Nate Navarro, and guitarist / vocalist â Randy McStien. Possibly Wilson should also get credit for their choice of venues, in San Francisco they could have filled a larger hall, but they choose the Masonic, an approximately 3500 seat house with excellent sight lines and sound (my only misgiving being typically exaggerated bass, and some resonance making low end pitch resolution poor). I know the next night in L.A. they played the Greek Theatre, another excellent venue (though outdoor). After we sat down, the first good sign was a projection declaring the concert phone, photo, and video free â I wish more bands and venues followed this protocol, it was so nice to watch the show free of screens in front of me. When the lights went down and the band walked on stage the applause was immediate and loud, when the first notes of âBlackest Eyesâ rang out it got even louder, at that moment the concert was a success for me. The performance quality and musicianship throughout the night was superb, as was song selection (Iâll post the setlist below). Steven Wilson was on, enthusiastic, animated and barefooted, I heard several comments that people felt he was playing to and looking at them, I felt the same thing. I should say our seats in the front balcony were perfect for me, great vision, good sound, and got to remain seated most of the two set show. Harrison and Barbieri were right there in the heart of PT, Harrison pounded out the complex rhythms with excellence, my friend felt Barbieri was piloting the space ship in the journey we were on (he might have over prepped). Randy McStien did an admirable job essentially playing and singing the Wilson guitar and vocal parts that were overdubbed on the albums. Nate Navarro, played his parts well, but as mentioned much of the pitch was lost and became heavy, some of his tones though did punch through and sounded great. The show was about two hours and forty five minutes with an intermission, and a generous encore. Enjoyable for me was them opening with the first song I ever heard them play, and closing with the second â the two opening songs of âIn Absentiaâ, âBlackest Eyesâ and âTrainsâ ⌠what Wilson calls their number one song, if they had a number one song (though heâs very conscious that they donât). Besides the âClosure / Continuationâ album (and song fav âDignityâ), they played a very satisfying selection of songs from other albums, large contingents in the audience knew the lyrics (a bit of a feat for a somewhat obscure band, and more obscure songs). I am so happy I got to see this band, and take a friend who I turned on to them a couple years ago, enjoyed the venue too, great night! Setlist:Set 1:Blackest Eyes HarridanOf the New DayRats ReturnEven Less Drown With Me DignityThe Sound of Muzak Last Chance to Evacuate Planet Earth Before It Is Recycled Chimera's WreckSet 2:Fear of a Blank Planet Buying New Soul Walk the PlankHerd CullingAnesthetize I Drive the Hearse Sleep Together Encore: Collapse the Light Into Earth Halo Trains * Closure / Continuation Volume was reasonable for rock, most times I looked it was between 80 and 95 dBC SPL, the loudest peak I measured was 106 (granted I was about 60 feet away and above stage level)  Do people break the rules? (asking for a friend, no really, not condoned, these photos are his)    |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Oct 2, 2022 11:11:41 GMT -5
After we sat down, the first good sign was a projection declaring the concert phone, photo, and video free â I wish more bands and venues followed this protocol, it was so nice to watch the show free of screens in front of me. ^^^^This !!!! Robert Fripp mocked the audience at the end of performances the last bunch of years by using his cell phone to video the audience. One friend took offense, I thought it was funny. . . . my friend felt Barbieri was piloting the space ship in the journey we were on (he might have over prepped). I went to many, many, concerts with a friend who was almost always "over prepped". He over prepped for far too long and is now only a memory. |
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Post by Zombie on Oct 2, 2022 11:35:13 GMT -5
I occasionally listen to PT. I'm a big fan of Gavin. He's a very solid drummer. Some of their stuff is a bit strange to me as I'm pretty much a Classic Rock guy but I enjoy them nonetheless.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 2, 2022 11:42:35 GMT -5
After we sat down, the first good sign was a projection declaring the concert phone, photo, and video free â I wish more bands and venues followed this protocol, it was so nice to watch the show free of screens in front of me. ^^^^This !!!! Robert Fripp mocked the audience at the end of performances the last bunch of years by using his cell phone to video the audience. One friend took offense, I thought it was funny.⌠I was going to mention, the last time I remember the âphone freeâ concert was King Crimson about 4 years ago. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 2, 2022 15:42:10 GMT -5
And isn't it interesting how very few popular music groups can play their own songs in any way that sounds even remotely like their studio albums? Years (decades? centuries? ages?) ago, I was working traffic for the Campus Police when Jethro Tull was playing in the university auditorium. It was their "Thick as a Brick" tour. Since traffic control was over by the time that the concert was about to start, and since I got free entry, and, mostly, since I liked Jethro Tull, I went in and listened to their performance.
They played through the entire Thick as a Brick album and if I had worn a blindfold, I'd have sworn that I was listening to the studio album. They were THAT note-perfect. I've never before or since seen ANY group that could do that. Ever.
At the end of the Thick as a Brick material, Ian Anderson approached the microphone and quipped "And now, for our second song..." Brought down the house!
I once took my daughter once to a Moody Blues performance where they were backed up by the Baton Rouge Symphony Orchestra. They commented that they were highly surprised because they so seldom got to play with an orchestra that was actually good! When my daughter got older, she played many a performance with the BRSO, and I got to attend most of them.
At one performance, the sound reinforcement system was used for the first half of the evening, but after the first presentation, the microphones were shut off. I was sitting in the balcony that night, and just happened to be on axis for one of the sound reinforcement speakers. The amplifier hiss was distracting. At intermission, I went backstage and buttonholed the conductor. He was surprised because he said he'd been careful to turn off the microphones. I had to explain to him that the residual hiss of the system, even with the microphones off, was the issue. He thanked me and then said that he'd have the amplifiers shut off for the second half of the performance (he did). Couldn't have done that in New York or Boston...
We also bought my daughter a better bow for her violin one birthday. Wife was grumbling about how it was a waste of money since she couldn't hear any difference. I brought over one of my audio amigos & had daughter play the same piece with her old bow & the new one. Audio amigo assured my wife that there was a significant difference, and that shut down the grumbling. To this day, despite the parade of gear that I've owned, wife still claims she doesn't hear the difference.
The difference between live and reproduced music is still a broad gulf, to my ears. Will there ever be reproduced music that is indistinguishable from live? Not anytime soon, IMHO. We still don't know how to measure the differences (or even what to measure).
Boomzilla
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Post by davidl81 on Oct 2, 2022 15:48:12 GMT -5
And isn't it interesting how very few popular music groups can play their own songs in any way that sounds even remotely like their studio albums? Years (decades? centuries? ages?) ago, I was working traffic for the Campus Police when Jethro Tull was playing in the university auditorium. It was their "Thick as a Brick" tour. Since traffic control was over by the time that the concert was about to start, and since I got free entry, and, mostly, since I liked Jethro Tull, I went in and listened to their performance. They played through the entire Thick as a Brick album and if I had worn a blindfold, I'd have sworn that I was listening to the studio album. They were THAT note-perfect. I've never before or since seen ANY group that could do that. Ever. At the end of the Thick as a Brick material, Ian Anderson approached the microphone and quipped "And now, for our second song..." Brought down the house! I once took my daughter once to a Moody Blues performance where they were backed up by the Baton Rouge Symphony Orchestra. They commented that they were highly surprised because they so seldom got to play with an orchestra that was actually good! When my daughter got older, she played many a performance with the BRSO, and I got to attend most of them. At one performance, the sound reinforcement system was used for the first half of the evening, but after the first presentation, the microphones were shut off. I was sitting in the balcony that night, and just happened to be on axis for one of the sound reinforcement speakers. The amplifier hiss was distracting. At intermission, I went backstage and buttonholed the conductor. He was surprised because he said he'd been careful to turn off the microphones. I had to explain to him that the residual hiss of the system, even with the microphones off, was the issue. He thanked me and then said that he'd have the amplifiers shut off for the second half of the performance (he did). Couldn't have done that in New York or Boston... We also bought my daughter a better bow for her violin one birthday. Wife was grumbling about how it was a waste of money since she couldn't hear any difference. I brought over one of my audio amigos & had daughter play the same piece with her old bow & the new one. Audio amigo assured my wife that there was a significant difference, and that shut down the grumbling. To this day, despite the parade of gear that I've owned, wife still claims she doesn't hear the difference. The difference between live and reproduced music is still a broad gulf, to my ears. Will there ever be reproduced music that is indistinguishable from live? Not anytime soon, IMHO. We still don't know how to measure the differences (or even what to measure). Boomzilla The big thing you have to account for is how little current studio music is actually what the artist is actually singing into the microphone versus what is being adjusted by the sound mixer. The reason the vast majority of artist do not sound like they do on a studio album is because they have actually never sounded like that in real life. |
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 3, 2022 9:04:27 GMT -5
I love both of themâŚâŚ Live AND dead â ď¸
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