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Post by creimes on Jul 18, 2022 19:50:06 GMT -5
I owned the Class D Audio Mini GaN5 amp for a while, it sounded really great but when pushing my Chane towers it would shut down which wasn't acceptable to say the least so I sold it, but a nice sounding amp it was but I don't think the power specs were as advertised.  |
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Post by leonski on Jul 18, 2022 19:51:01 GMT -5
When I worked in the field? Our company worked with UCI or one of the SoCal university's on what came to be known as the 'Pascal Microengine'... .https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_MicroEngine But somehow I don't think that's what you meant! Yes, Pass was heavily involved with Threshold. He is THE patent holder for the 'Statis' technology..... www.threshold-audio.com/products/stasis8.0.htmlThese amps are still onsidered landmark and hold value as well as can be expected for such old gear. Even has a fan-base. Let me know where / when and I'll for sure drop by. In trade? A Sixer of Billy Beer, a DVD of Mars Attacks and a photo of me with a Bernie Sanders cutout..... |
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Post by leonski on Jul 18, 2022 20:00:29 GMT -5
I owned the Class D Audio Mini GaN5 amp for a while, it sounded really great but when pushing my Chane towers it would shut down which wasn't acceptable to say the least so I sold it, but a nice sounding amp it was but I don't think the power specs were as advertised. Power spec into a resistor says little of the amps REAL output into a REAL load which may have some wacky impedance swings, not to mention high reactance. Also? 'D' amps are time-limited at max power. I think the original ASP modules from B&O were something like 60 seconds. You need to 'dive deep' into the specs and find out what the FTC power really was. You'll be surprised at that number Vs the 'claimed' value. And another limit is the output Zebel of 'D' amps which also can only take so much. icepoweraudio.com/products/other/asp-series/You'll see, if you decide to look that the power limit is much lower than the advertised power. I don't know that 'newer' class 'd' amps have changed......I suspect NOT. |
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Post by jbrunwa on Jul 18, 2022 20:29:30 GMT -5
Power spec into a resistor says little of the amps REAL output into a REAL load which may have some wacky impedance swings, not to mention high reactance. Also? 'D' amps are time-limited at max power. I think the original ASP modules from B&O were something like 60 seconds. You need to 'dive deep' into the specs and find out what the FTC power really was. You'll be surprised at that number Vs the 'claimed' value. And another limit is the output Zebel of 'D' amps which also can only take so much. icepoweraudio.com/products/other/asp-series/You'll see, if you decide to look that the power limit is much lower than the advertised power. I don't know that 'newer' class 'd' amps have changed......I suspect NOT. Good point. I checked that before buying my amps. If I recall, the Hypex NC502MP spec was 100W RMS per channel continuous |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 19, 2022 10:31:54 GMT -5
I’ve started a “Reference” section at the bottom of the first post in this thread. So far I’ve added the product sheets for most of the modules mentioned. First Post w/Reference Section |
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Post by jasonf on Jul 21, 2022 14:56:57 GMT -5
EMO sold a B&O module amp as a mono. The PA-1 is still well regarded.. It's my understanding that Emo has some kind of partnership with B&O, or either just got a boatload of their modules on the cheap. I'd be open to a new Emotiva B&O Class D, but I know that the Hypex and Purifi modules are measuring a bit better, and Hypex has some monster 1.2kw and 2.0kw options. I've been in a "wait and see" what gets released mode, but if there is nothing new, in the next year I will probably move to some 2kw Hypex amps. And yeah, Purifi is Bruno's company. |
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Post by leonski on Jul 21, 2022 22:21:39 GMT -5
Pass is also responsible for the now-vintage ADCOM GFA-555. Not the Mark II version, just the original.... www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/678/index.htmlQuite an advertisment for 'better watts, not more'...... The link is kind of a 'retro' look, since the amp was IIRC, mid-80s..... |
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Post by jasonf on Jul 22, 2022 1:30:27 GMT -5
Thought I'd put this one here..  Apollon running my 804 mains, and the A500 running my HT 700 series center and surrounds. IDK if it's the speakers or the amps, but I had to turn the gain way up (+10db) on my HT speakers. I'd like to swap the HT speakers to class D, but the A500 is just such a great value, it's a bit hard to justify. |
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Post by leonski on Jul 27, 2022 18:44:28 GMT -5
EMO sold a B&O module amp as a mono. The PA-1 is still well regarded.. It's my understanding that Emo has some kind of partnership with B&O, or either just got a boatload of their modules on the cheap. I'd be open to a new Emotiva B&O Class D, but I know that the Hypex and Purifi modules are measuring a bit better, and Hypex has some monster 1.2kw and 2.0kw options. I've been in a "wait and see" what gets released mode, but if there is nothing new, in the next year I will probably move to some 2kw Hypex amps. And yeah, Purifi is Bruno's company. I'm a little 'iffy' about 2kw amps. That's like 4000 watts peak at over 120v rms. I hesitate to even consider the current under those conditions. Certainly, a normal 15amp circuit may have problems with this. |
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Post by 405x5 on Jul 27, 2022 19:44:27 GMT -5
This is all good reading, but I do my best work under pressure. That means when my amp. gives it up, I’ll become a quick study on what’s current (no pun intended) on the marketplace and make a choice in relatively short order. I won’t buy BECAUSE it’s a class D. …..Not because it’s A/B. Just whatever fits the bill at the time to drive my systems.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 28, 2022 10:55:25 GMT -5
It's my understanding that Emo has some kind of partnership with B&O, or either just got a boatload of their modules on the cheap. I'd be open to a new Emotiva B&O Class D, but I know that the Hypex and Purifi modules are measuring a bit better, and Hypex has some monster 1.2kw and 2.0kw options. I've been in a "wait and see" what gets released mode, but if there is nothing new, in the next year I will probably move to some 2kw Hypex amps. And yeah, Purifi is Bruno's company. I'm a little 'iffy' about 2kw amps. That's like 4000 watts peak at over 120v rms. I hesitate to even consider the current under those conditions. Certainly, a normal 15amp circuit may have problems with this. I agree, as you pointed out above, many of these smaller Class D companies tout some kind of peak or instantaneous power, as opposed to the FTC/ACD power we’ve become accustomed to (not to mention using 4 Ω power as their primary value). While I’ve read Dylan at Buckeye state he plans to put dual 15A or 20A IEC connectors on his bigger amps, I see nothing like that on VTV’s 8x400 Pascal amp, that’s 3200W through a single 15A connection — or since they use 4 Ω ratings 6400W!!! (yes, it doubles in this case) … these amps also list 40A instantaneous peak per channel capability! To be fair, music is well suited for taking advantage of peak power, but both the advertising, and technical foundation seem askew on some of these amps. |
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Post by leonski on Jul 28, 2022 12:04:40 GMT -5
That is the most meaningless spec EVER. 40 amps? At 8 ohms it's over 12kw and 300v......NO power supply on any amp will do this.
But if you think about 40 amps dragging down the voltage? You might get there at some very low voltage. At some point, you will be out
of any output device 'safe operating area'....and no more party.
The Buckeye guy may put a pair of connectors on his amps, but unless you have multiple circuits, you can't take advantage.
If you check the Deep Dive ( it IS Shark Week!) specs you will see that FTC power if much lower than those weird ratings. And also, do not
forget that the output Zobel (removes HF PS noise) also has a limit. And it ain't full power forever....
If the manufacturers of 'D' amps did use FTC power? I'm certain business would suffer.
'D' amps have come a long way. I even owned one, once. But my lesser powered Parasounds actually seem to go louder. The 'D' amp
would never hardly get warm. But long-term satisfaction of that $$$ piece simply didn't happen.
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Post by jasonf on Jul 28, 2022 23:40:21 GMT -5
It's my understanding that Emo has some kind of partnership with B&O, or either just got a boatload of their modules on the cheap. I'd be open to a new Emotiva B&O Class D, but I know that the Hypex and Purifi modules are measuring a bit better, and Hypex has some monster 1.2kw and 2.0kw options. I've been in a "wait and see" what gets released mode, but if there is nothing new, in the next year I will probably move to some 2kw Hypex amps. And yeah, Purifi is Bruno's company. I'm a little 'iffy' about 2kw amps. That's like 4000 watts peak at over 120v rms. I hesitate to even consider the current under those conditions. Certainly, a normal 15amp circuit may have problems with this. In my mind, it's not really about sustaining 2kw of amplification - it's about having the headroom for transient peaks. With the super-efficient switching power supplies, I believe any onboard capacitance should go a lot further and you don't necessarily need to be able to pull 40 amps or whatever from the wall. But I'm also not an EE, and this is all really interesting data to me. My perception is that higher powered amps have always provided less distortion in complex passages at high volume, even when the VU meters on an AMP say it's using like 2-20 watts average. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Jul 29, 2022 8:43:06 GMT -5
That's true in some sense... but it's a bit more nuanced than that. In the distant past many amplifiers actually would exhibit gradually increasing distortion at very high levels (and so did many preamps). Nowadays most modern gear will exhibit very low distortion until it actually clips. This is why, for example, the distortion will be equally low, whether your pre/pro is set to -10 or -30 dB. However, if you are listening to VERY dynamic music, for example a loud drum solo... There may be very short peaks that are much louder than the average level. And, if the music is playing without distortion the majority of the time, but ONLY the very short high peaks are being clipped. Then, while you may not hear the result as distortion, you may notice it as a "lack of dynamics". (Basically, a clipped drumbeat doesn't sound very different than an unclipped drumbeat, but it may lack the expected "impact" that it should have.) Note that a lot of modern music production employs limiters specifically to avoid this sort of situation. I'm a little 'iffy' about 2kw amps. That's like 4000 watts peak at over 120v rms. I hesitate to even consider the current under those conditions. Certainly, a normal 15amp circuit may have problems with this. In my mind, it's not really about sustaining 2kw of amplification - it's about having the headroom for transient peaks. With the super-efficient switching power supplies, I believe any onboard capacitance should go a lot further and you don't necessarily need to be able to pull 40 amps or whatever from the wall. But I'm also not an EE, and this is all really interesting data to me. My perception is that higher powered amps have always provided less distortion in complex passages at high volume, even when the VU meters on an AMP say it's using like 2-20 watts average. |
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Post by leonski on Jul 29, 2022 13:32:19 GMT -5
Still and all? 10db range.....is 10x the power. So If you are cruising at 2 watts? 20 is the number. Higher range of dynamics will of course require a greater power.
But I wonder? If you were listening to a MONO speaker at a given level....and using 2 watts, it would be a given loudness....and the rule applies. Keep in mind listening distance and such.
but in a 5 speaker or 7 speaker HT system? I know the times when ALL speakers play the same thing are few, but still and all you have a LOT of power at your fingertips.
Carver did the first ad I ever saw where too much power was still not enough. The same reasoning as keith applied....only to the 'snip' of a pair of scissors....
If you have speakers of reasonable sensitivity......90db or so......and 100 watts PER? What is the problem? That 100 watts will Easily get well north of 100db peaks.
However, jason's 2 to 20 watts? Potentially 200 at a 10db crest factor. I'm certain that with a 5.x to 7.x or more.....system, that's gonna be LOUD.....
Guard your hearing! I always wear hearing protection, even at an advanced age. when around power tools or doing shop work.......
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