|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 2, 2022 15:28:25 GMT -5
I’m in the market for some multichannel Class D amps for my home theatre, I want to reduce the size, weight, heat, and power consumption of my amps; I think that there a plenty of good (and good sounding) Class D amps to meet my needs. I also want fewer power cords, so no mono blocks or stereo amps. Emotiva has hinted at a Class D multichannel offering, but nothing seems forthcoming. I ‘need’ 13 channels so I’m thinking two amps, maybe one with 8 channels around 100-150W ACD for surround and Atmos, and a second with 5-8 channels for LCR & Wides (minimum), and maybe room to grow (or bi-amp L/R), probably 200-300W ACD (or a hybrid) for this. Two seven channel amps would also work. I would really like 2RU cases and (2) 3RU probably wouldn’t fit (but just might). Here’s are some of the Multichannel Class D amps I’m aware of, what else is out there? Anyone else considering this or already doing it? Any favorites (or clunkers)? ATI: * 1-4 Channels @ 500 WPC * 2-8 Channels @ 200 WPC Monoprice (also ATI?) * 8 Channels @ 100 WPC * 8 Channels @ 200 WPC Buckeye * 2,4,6.8 Channels @ 350 WPC * 2,4,6,8 Channels @ 150 WPC * Custom Configs & Hybrids (3x350, 2x150) VTV * 2,4,6.8 Channels @ 350 WPC * 2,4,6,8 Channels @ 130 WPC * Hybrids (3x350, 2x130) Nord * 4-8 Channels @ 75 WPC * 2-8 Channels @ 200 WPC * Many others Wyred4Sound * A potential fav that seems between designs on MC amps (read, I'm tired of waiting) Reference Section:I’m adding some reference material to this first post, and will update it as more is discussed. Here are the product sheets for most of the modules mentioned in the discussion below. Hypex— Hypex NC500MP Product Sheet Hypex NC502MP Product SheetHypex NC250MP Product SheetHypex NC252MP Product SheetPascal— Pascal L-PRO2S Product SheetPurify— Purify ET1400A Product Sheet |
|
|
|
Post by marcl on Jun 2, 2022 15:53:23 GMT -5
I’m in the market for some multichannel Class D amps for my home theatre, I want to reduce the size, weight, heat, and power consumption of my amps; I think that there a plenty of good (and good sounding) Class D amps to meet my needs. I also want fewer power cords, so no mono blocks or stereo amps. Emotiva has hinted at a Class D multichannel offering, but nothing seems forthcoming. I ‘need’ 13 channels so I’m thinking two amps, maybe one with 8 channels around 100-150 WACD for surround and Atmos, and a second with 5-8 channels for LCR & Wides (minimum), and maybe room to grow (or bi-amp L/R), probably 200-300 WACD (or a hybrid) for this. Two seven channel amps would also work. I would really like 2RU cases and (2) 3RU probably wouldn’t fit (but just might). Here’s are some of the Multichannel Class D amps I’m aware of, what else is out there? Anyone else considering this or already doing it? Any favorites (or clunkers)? ATI: * 1-4 Channels @ 500 WPC * 2-8 Channels @ 200 WPC Monoprice (also ATI?) * 8 Channels @ 100 WPC * 8 Channels @ 200 WPC Buckeye * 2,4,6.8 Channels @ 350 WPC * 2,4,6,8 Channels @ 150 WPC * Custom Configs & Hybrids (3x350, 2x150) VTV * 2,4,6.8 Channels @ 350 WPC * 2,4,6,8 Channels @ 130 WPC * Hybrids (3x350, 2x130) Nord * 4-8 Channels @ 75 WPC * 2-8 Channels @ 200 WPC * Many others Wyred4Sound * A potential fav that seems between designs on MC amps (read, I'm tired of waiting) Here's another www.apollonaudio.com/apollon-audio-hypex-ncore-nc500-multichannel-amplifier-6-12-channel/My fronts are powered by a Nord One and I'm very happy with it. Dealing with the company was very easy, status emails back and forth, etc. |
|
|
|
Post by donh50 on Jun 2, 2022 19:52:58 GMT -5
I have a Buckeye amp and am happy with it. Inexpensive, good craftsmanship in the build, and he is very responsive. Only issue may be the backlog. Lots of discussion on the ASR site.
|
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 2, 2022 21:28:25 GMT -5
I have a Buckeye amp and am happy with it. Inexpensive, good craftsmanship in the build, and he is very responsive. Only issue may be the backlog. Lots of discussion on the ASR site. Yes, I’ve read good things including on ASR, and doing one 252 and one 502 the size works for me as well, but also yes, I’ve contacted Dylan and he’s currently taking orders for September. Thanks for the recommendation! |
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Jun 2, 2022 23:08:58 GMT -5
From my perspective(like that matters haha) I would go with VTV, little better looks than Buckeye but still an amazing price point, ATI and Monoprice prices are insane IMO but I don't have the funds for those brands so take it with a grain of salt haha.
Chad
|
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 3, 2022 0:16:12 GMT -5
From my perspective(like that matters haha) I would go with VTV, little better looks than Buckeye but still an amazing price point, ATI and Monoprice prices are insane IMO but I don't have the funds for those brands so take it with a grain of salt haha. Chad Yes, VTV is a strong contender and I’m conversing with Warren, I too like their looks better than Buckeye, and their case sizes totally work for me (though somewhat non-standard). Buckeye does have an auto on/off feature that is nice, and very good numbers and reviews. I like ATI, but idle is a bit high and they’re just too big. Same with Monoprice. |
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Jun 3, 2022 0:28:13 GMT -5
From my perspective(like that matters haha) I would go with VTV, little better looks than Buckeye but still an amazing price point, ATI and Monoprice prices are insane IMO but I don't have the funds for those brands so take it with a grain of salt haha. Chad Yes, VTV is a strong contender and I’m conversing with Warren, I too like their looks better than Buckeye, and their case sizes totally work for me (though somewhat non-standard). Buckeye does have an auto on/off feature that is nice, and very good numbers and reviews. I like ATI, but idle is a bit high and they’re just too big. Same with Monoprice. I absolutely love my Outlaw 7000X, I would still consider class d multi channel amps but add 30% cost as I'm in Canada and stuff gets too pricey The $1649 USD VTV AMPLIFIER Five Channel Hypex NC502MP/NC500MP NCore Amplifier 5x500W would cost me prob close to $2700 CAD all said and done haha |
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Jun 3, 2022 1:43:52 GMT -5
Only thing that matters is the source of the modules. And the 'series' in the line.....
Input circuitry can only make minor differences in the amps 'voice'.
Many modules have on-board switcher so no external power.....needed.
And at one time? Some of the B&O stuff had power taps so you could run a 2-way or 3-way
powered speaker....with one amp supplying power to the other modules....
Better Watts are Better.
|
|
|
|
Post by marcl on Jun 3, 2022 5:22:50 GMT -5
From my perspective(like that matters haha) I would go with VTV, little better looks than Buckeye but still an amazing price point, ATI and Monoprice prices are insane IMO but I don't have the funds for those brands so take it with a grain of salt haha. Chad Yes, VTV is a strong contender and I’m conversing with Warren, I too like their looks better than Buckeye, and their case sizes totally work for me (though somewhat non-standard). Buckeye does have an auto on/off feature that is nice, and very good numbers and reviews. I like ATI, but idle is a bit high and they’re just too big. Same with Monoprice. I have the Monoprice 450 and it has the auto on/off, and it's problematic ... at least as I'm using it for my rear surrounds. The problem on the Monoprice is you can't defeat that feature. And since rear surrounds don't always have enough signal all the time during a movie, they're always shutting off and then coming on with a delay. Just something to think about. |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 3, 2022 8:45:01 GMT -5
Yes, VTV is a strong contender and I’m conversing with Warren, I too like their looks better than Buckeye, and their case sizes totally work for me (though somewhat non-standard). Buckeye does have an auto on/off feature that is nice, and very good numbers and reviews. I like ATI, but idle is a bit high and they’re just too big. Same with Monoprice. I have the Monoprice 450 and it has the auto on/off, and it's problematic ... at least as I'm using it for my rear surrounds. The problem on the Monoprice is you can't defeat that feature. And since rear surrounds don't always have enough signal all the time during a movie, they're always shutting off and then coming on with a delay. Just something to think about. I’m currently using (4) PA-1’s for Atmos, they have optional Auto On/Off. When I first got them I felt they didn’t come on so easily and would ‘pop’ on when Atmos material appeared, I bought a triggered outlet and left them on. At some point I tried the feature again and they seem to work pretty well, possibly an improvement in the DSU? I think the feature is optional on the Buckeye as they also have triggers, but I’ll heed your warning and make sure should I choose them, or any other amp with the feature. The Buckeyes also have a clipping light which I’ve always thought was a good idea (and it doubles as a fault light). |
|
|
|
Post by 405x5 on Jun 3, 2022 8:56:08 GMT -5
Yes, VTV is a strong contender and I’m conversing with Warren, I too like their looks better than Buckeye, and their case sizes totally work for me (though somewhat non-standard). Buckeye does have an auto on/off feature that is nice, and very good numbers and reviews. I like ATI, but idle is a bit high and they’re just too big. Same with Monoprice. I absolutely love my Outlaw 7000X, I would still consider class d multi channel amps but add 30% cost as I'm in Canada and stuff gets too pricey The $1649 USD VTV AMPLIFIER Five Channel Hypex NC502MP/NC500MP NCore Amplifier 5x500W would cost me prob close to $2700 CAD all said and done haha No need to waste your time with class D for your purposes (you nailed it the first time!) |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 3, 2022 8:59:33 GMT -5
Only thing that matters is the source of the modules. And the 'series' in the line..... Input circuitry can only make minor differences in the amps 'voice'. Many modules have on-board switcher so no external power.....needed. And at one time? Some of the B&O stuff had power taps so you could run a 2-way or 3-way powered speaker....with one amp supplying power to the other modules.... Better Watts are Better. I’ve seen some manufacturers offering options for their input buffers, I believe to alter the input impedance, but they claim sonic benefits too. I’m not currently looking at that detail, and yes, most amps I’m currently looking at are using the same Hypex NC252, 502, or 500 modules. I’m assuming they all sound pretty similar. |
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Jun 3, 2022 9:24:19 GMT -5
I absolutely love my Outlaw 7000X, I would still consider class d multi channel amps but add 30% cost as I'm in Canada and stuff gets too pricey The $1649 USD VTV AMPLIFIER Five Channel Hypex NC502MP/NC500MP NCore Amplifier 5x500W would cost me prob close to $2700 CAD all said and done haha No need to waste your time with class D for your purposes (you nailed it the first time!) If and when I end up completing a 2ch setup I will likely go with a VTV NC502 amp but yeah my Outlaw is here to stay, it is the one amp I have owned the longest. Chad |
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Jun 3, 2022 17:00:55 GMT -5
Yes, VTV is a strong contender and I’m conversing with Warren, I too like their looks better than Buckeye, and their case sizes totally work for me (though somewhat non-standard). Buckeye does have an auto on/off feature that is nice, and very good numbers and reviews. I like ATI, but idle is a bit high and they’re just too big. Same with Monoprice. I have the Monoprice 450 and it has the auto on/off, and it's problematic ... at least as I'm using it for my rear surrounds. The problem on the Monoprice is you can't defeat that feature. And since rear surrounds don't always have enough signal all the time during a movie, they're always shutting off and then coming on with a delay. Just something to think about. Some weird solution? Put a 10 watt / 2 ohm non-inductive resistor in series with the speaker. Than turn up the level to where it belongs and that should work? |
|
|
|
Post by marcl on Jun 3, 2022 18:07:53 GMT -5
I have the Monoprice 450 and it has the auto on/off, and it's problematic ... at least as I'm using it for my rear surrounds. The problem on the Monoprice is you can't defeat that feature. And since rear surrounds don't always have enough signal all the time during a movie, they're always shutting off and then coming on with a delay. Just something to think about. Some weird solution? Put a 10 watt / 2 ohm non-inductive resistor in series with the speaker. Than turn up the level to where it belongs and that should work? Easier than that! I crank the output on the XMC-2 by 8db on the rear surrounds, then turn down the volume control on the amp. The extra output from the processor keeps the amp on.  |
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Jun 3, 2022 22:15:12 GMT -5
Good. My auto on amps will mute after a ocuple minutes at low levels.
At that point? I either switch to headphones OR turn it up a little....
Under normal conditions? Not an issue.
Glad you figured a workaround....Nothing worse than being 'outsmarted' by tech.....
|
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 4, 2022 23:51:51 GMT -5
So most of the designs I’ve been considering use the Hypex NC252MP and NC502MP, each of these modules provide two channels of fully balanced amplification.
So for an 8 channel amp:
(4) NC252MP Modules = (8) x 130W @ 8Ω / 250W @ 4Ω (~34 W idle)
(4) NC502MP Modules = (8) x 350W @ 8Ω / 500W @ 4Ω (~68 W idle)
I’ve also seen other module types including the Pascal L-Pro2S, it looks like:
(4) L-PRO2S Modules = (8) x 500W @ 8Ω / 800W @ 4Ω (~51W idle)
I certainly don’t need this much power, but cost is similar, and idle a bit lower, meaning a little less heat. What about sound, noise, stability? Anyone familiar with the Pascal modules?
|
|
|
|
Post by housetech on Jun 5, 2022 12:46:35 GMT -5
I want to reduce the size, weight, heat, and power consumption of my amps
I question why most houses would need any surround/effect/atmos amps above 100w/ch, 60-80w would be plenty for 88db & above speakers.
The subwoofers (use 2) will carry the heavy load, and the effects are for just that effect, they are not going to require the power or exacting fidelity you're front sound stage does.
If I was starting over- XPA-3 and Basx multi-chan or Class D for the rest.
Unless you plan to play music in multi-chan a lot or have the disposable cash.
|
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Jun 5, 2022 14:09:21 GMT -5
House? power draw isn't just the 'efficiency' of the amp. Your speaker is no morr than 4% efficient.....even less, probably. So that sets an upper limit on 'efficieny' for the chain from wall plug to your ears.
difference between 80 watts and 100 watts? I'm not going to do the math, but probalby not even 1db. Negligible.
But you are spot-on with the idea that people overestimate the amount of power they really need. It makes me nuts to see huge monoblocks paired with 94db sensitive speakers......
Than there are a few Dinosaurs like ME who wouldn't mind a pair of Tube amps! But for stereo. I couldn't imagine having 5 or 7 Tube channels of amplification unlesss
I lived in a very cold climate.
|
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 5, 2022 19:45:23 GMT -5
I want to reduce the size, weight, heat, and power consumption of my ampsI question why most houses would need any surround/effect/atmos amps above 100w/ch, 60-80w would be plenty for 88db & above speakers. The subwoofers (use 2) will carry the heavy load, and the effects are for just that effect, they are not going to require the power or exacting fidelity you're front sound stage does. If I was starting over- XPA-3 and Basx multi-chan or Class D for the rest. Unless you plan to play music in multi-chan a lot or have the disposable cash. Yes, in my OP I stated that I thought 100-150 WPC should be sufficient for surrounds and Atmos, I’m looking at an 8 channel NC252MP based amp for that (about 125W @ 8Ω), for LCR & Wides I’m considering a 5 or 6 channel NC252MP based amp (350 WPC @ 8Ω). That said, my listening room has a much greater volume (cu ft) than most. I’m getting close to making a selection, I consider the amps in contention inexpensive, and can get double the power for the same price, so cost is not the issue. |
|
