KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jul 21, 2023 8:38:18 GMT -5
I don't disagree with you... For many consumers a low-cost AVR is the cheapest option available. And, for many others, even a really expensive AVR is the simplest and easiest option available. I would point out that many people are moving to options like Sonos ... Which is currently as close as you can get to "just an app that plays music"... And the attraction there is clearly not cost but convenience... (Each of those little boxes costs more than a low cost HTIB... and a house full of them costs more than even an expensive AVR.) I would also point out that the consumer's perception of what constitutes "convenience" has also changed drastically over the years. Many of us here would consider dropping a CD into the tray and hitting the Play button to be far more convenient than negotiating an App on our phones. However, quite clearly, for modern folks "who live their lives on their phones", the exact opposite is true. I'm personally part of "the computer culture"... which is different than both of those. I tend to not want to bother to locate a specific CD to play... But I've also never found a phone App that I find convenient to use either... BUT, both at home, and here at the office, I always have a computer actually on and running nearby... So, when I want to send an e-mail, I click on my e-mail program... And, when I want to look at a document, I click on it... So, for me, the most convenient way to play an album is to click on it, on that same computer, and have it play through a DAC... (And, usually, when I want to watch a movie, I do exactly the same thing... click on the file.) Can someone explain the attraction of the HT receiver? And at the stratospheric price of the new Denon 'flagship'? Given that this beast will be obsoleted in a year and technologically obsolete in 18 months? Good amps, which are better than ANY HT product will last thru several upgrade cycles lowering cost. A good HT level Pre-Pro MUST be less coin than the Denon. I know its years, but the last time I just looked at the HT receiver isle (modest end, for sure) they all ran HOT....Some alarmngly so. And to Snoman? the tech company I worked for kind of did a related thing. Suing other tech companies over PATENTs and INTELLECTUAL property is apparently a regular part of doing businsss. The sale of much intellectual property and manufacturing rights TO Vishay started another round of lawyering up. I have no idea how all that nuttiness turned out. What MOST players in manufacturing conform to are ISO standards and the periodic AUDIT by various organizations. I was thru half a dozen of them over the years.....As pleasant as a Colonoscopy..... The attraction of the HTR, AVR, or singular black box controlling everything is honestly more of a failure of consumer knowledge than anything else. No different than moths being attracted to light/flame, consumers chasing these products simply have absolutely no comprehension of audio, engineering or physics. This is of course, an assumption of all things being equal which we know, are not. Most consumers couldn't begin to grasp the difference between OFC and CCA or language related to harmonics and distortion, much less fathom entry level home theater equations like subwoofer size to room size. On top of lack of knowledge, add to the fact of wives chasing their perfect esthetic living room or even something as simple as not knowing how to work multiple remotes, we are left with the perfect scenario for a consumer to simply "lay down" at the first sales pitch. Who wants all those wires and complications, set up procedures that read like college text books well over 100 pages in length, and why on earth would I spend $30 per cable for some scam called 'XLR'? Manufactures pray on consumers being dumb, advertising campaigns succeed by disorienting those ignorant enough to fall for it. I saw this first hand within Circuit City back in the day. We sold more Home Theater In-a-box units at our stores than separates 7 days a week. The masses do not care about audio quality and neither did company profits. The consumer shift from audio quality to cheap within the audio industry started about 20 years ago. Today, most will just about sacrifice their first born to achieve simplicity and convenience. My own wife wouldn't let me pair a $5,000 5.1 system to our bedroom TV because it meant three remotes. She eventually caved because I threatened to put it in the Kitchen, but I still had to consolidate remotes. This shift in esthetics over quality went into a free fall with the advent of MP3 honestly. Allowing consumers to have 80% of the real product (FLAC/LL/CD/Album/etc), while tricking them that it's the real deal turned into a trillion dollar business that no one could have imagined. One of the greatest laughs I still have today is that consumers actually believe the sticker in their cars representing some speaker brand is actually real and not in fact, just a piece of licensing the automaker paid while shoving some random $0.25 speaker product in the door manufactured by the cheapest bidder out of china. You think that's a McIntosh product in your 2023 Jeep eh? Pssst....licensing.
From a technology perspective, the flagship Denon was a joke even before it hit the shelves. The technology it represents is akin to buying a state of the art gaming computer, except the computer is 10 years old and someone simply installed new software in it and trippled the original MSRP. The A1H represents nothing new, except profits, but hey....you know, go Denon! Most consumers aren't even aware of the fact there is no real R&D over there and that Marantz is the same company, sorta, but not, but is---ish...something. Marantz gets the better products and represents "the Denon pre-pro line", except...they have their own AVRs also. Consolidation of manufactures gets confusing quickly, like did DEIH destroy both company integrities or was it their current owners, S.U.?
Consumers simply do not care and manufactures are happy to rake in the profits.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jul 21, 2023 10:35:05 GMT -5
Don't worry about needing to rewire for 440V ... Your new amp will just have TWO power cords that you can plug into two different circuits. (Some hi-power pro amps have that now.) Ridiculous times call for ridiculous prices. Me? 16 channels is NOT enough. I'm waiting for 32 channels of 200 watts each with a receiver needing 440 volts and 20 or 30 amps.....the same plug you'd use to charge your EV..... A GOOD Stereo which you can get for a fraction the 10k for JUST the Denon receiver is looking better and better. But no 'bragging rights'...... |
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Post by leonski on Jul 21, 2023 13:21:38 GMT -5
If I don't have a transformer the size of a '56 Buick sitting in my yard, it's NO GO.
Wire connecting to house must be the size of my WRIST......
My dream setup includes an ACRE of Solar to defer electric costs......
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Post by One Hand Clapping on Oct 28, 2023 15:38:33 GMT -5
Can someone explain the attraction of the HT receiver? And at the stratospheric price of the new Denon 'flagship'? Given that this beast will be obsoleted in a year and technologically obsolete in 18 months? HT are the no-brainer choice that are usually cheaper. Separates add a layer of choice and thought that turn Average Joe consumer away. Since Joe isn't worried about sound quality, price and simplicity drive the selection process. Good speakers will last decades, good amps nearly as long. That leaves the preamp to be swapped out as the state of the art moves. That's a simplification. We've gone from two channels to five to seven to 16+. More amps, more speakers, oh my !! It is the same process that drives sound bar sales. I wince when I see sound bars pitching ATMOS surround. Seriously? Simple choices impose their own costs in performance. But people still buy them. |
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Post by vcautokid on Oct 30, 2023 5:59:28 GMT -5
Sure they do. Choice is a wonderful thing. It is also a generational thing. Kids are mobile. They don’t do big black boxes.
Sonos and the like are cool. Sold tons of them. People really like them.
Sound bars have their place. May not be for all. But for many just fine.
An AVR has become some pretty complex tech over the years.
I think for me at least, in some cases forgot what they are for.
Do you really need 16 channels?
I get along fine with 2 or 5. Never missed a thing.
Other than video switching I really had no reason for a new AVR.
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Post by MusicHead on Oct 30, 2023 16:24:50 GMT -5
Other than video switching I really had no reason for a new AVR. Still rocking my Fusion 8100 in all of its HDMI 1.4 glory 😄 I have one HDMI output of my Panny DP-UB420 going straight to my LG OLED TV for video, the other to the 8100 for audio. |
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orey22
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by orey22 on Nov 2, 2023 15:10:28 GMT -5
Hello all,
Brand new to this board and Emotiva in general. I currently run a Yamaha RX2060, but would like try out the MR1. So, I have a few questions that I don't know if they are proper for this board or not.
I tend to read every review I can get my hands on before I buy electronics. A couple things came up.
Not really concerned about the MR1 not having HDMI 2.1 or 8K, but I did watch a video with the Emotiva owner that mentioned an 8k board was in development and would be ready by summer 24 ( maybe I mis-understood what he was talking about ). Just sort of curious if an updated MR1 is coming down the road?
I have also seen multiple owners report of a "snapping / thumping" noise happening when the volume is turned up on the MR1. Curious if this is an issue or it was resolved in some manner.
Thanks in advance, the MR1 looks like a great product.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Nov 2, 2023 19:39:45 GMT -5
I wanted to add a little something here... about sound bars.
What I want to add is simply that, as vcautokid said, people's expectations - and desires - vary.
The trend in modern TVs is bigger screens, smaller bezels, less depth, and less useful speakers. Some modern TVs have decent speakers, some have really awful little speakers, and a few have no speakers at all. So you either add a surround sound system, a two channel system, or a sound bar.
With a surround sound system you get... well... surround sound.
And that potentially includes Atmos, and DTS:X, and as many speakers as you have room for.
Another option is to simply go with two channel... And, yes, this option actually works for some people... especially those who listen to a lot of music. You can connect the ARC connection on your TV to something like our XDA-3... Or even the optical or line outputs (if your TV still has them)... And connect your TV to a regular stereo.
And, if you don't want to go that far, you can get a sound bar. One main drawback of sound bars is that they are limited as to location (although some allow you to connect other speakers too).
The other main real limitation is performance and more specifically price / performance ratio. Cheap sound bars usually don't sound all that good... But there are some expensive ones that actually sound very good... They're not as good as the best separate speakers but they ain't bad... The catch is that, for less than the price of a high-end sound bar, you can actually get good separate speakers and a good receiver. But, if things like floor space, and how it looks, matter more to you than the absolute best sound quality for a given price tag.... Then a sound bar may be an excellent choice.
And, since you asked, those Atmos sound bars are NOT going to deliver the same experience as a full 9.1.6 channel system... So, for example, they won't do as good a job of placing specific objects at specific locations or angles... But many of them DO give you a thoroughly pleasant "sense of being immersed"...
(And, if you're a movie fan, that will get you a lot closer to "the theater experience" than two-channel.) Sure they do. Choice is a wonderful thing. It is also a generational thing. Kids are mobile. They don’t do big black boxes. Sonos and the like are cool. Sold tons of them. People really like them. Sound bars have their place. May not be for all. But for many just fine. An AVR has become some pretty complex tech over the years. I think for me at least, in some cases forgot what they are for. Do you really need 16 channels? I get along fine with 2 or 5. Never missed a thing. Other than video switching I really had no reason for a new AVR. |
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petek
Minor Hero
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Post by petek on Nov 29, 2023 9:38:36 GMT -5
Not sure the customs here so unsure if this should be a new thread. Received my MR1. Running a 7.2.4 set up. Mostly all is well. Got the set up and speaker calibration complete last night, and agree with others that the dynamics/sound quality is
leaps better than say Denon. However on shut down (power off) what "sounds/noises" would be considered normal? I understand there should be some relay switching sounds, but what I hear through the speakers is a sound almost like what I'd call a screeching, pulsing, staticky modem.... Just wondering if it is something to be concerned about. For now I am trying to remember to lower the volume before turning off. Aslo need to figure out how to get the on screen display without having to switch to the Sony UDP player source every time I want to see it....which is annoying because then I see is the menu overlayed on top the player menu.
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Post by ilikeitloud on Dec 2, 2023 21:07:17 GMT -5
Does anyone know if the MR1L has a built in preamp for a turntable?
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Dec 2, 2023 22:25:43 GMT -5
Does anyone know if the MR1L has a built in preamp for a turntable? From the product page, besides the HDMI inputs, these are what’s listed as inputs, and a phono input is not listed. (4) stereo unbalanced analog audio inputs. (2) S/PDIF coaxial digital audio inputs. (2) Toslink (optical) digital audio inputs. (1) USB Audio (DAC) input. (1) Bluetooth audio input (internal with rear panel antenna) |
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Post by ilikeitloud on Dec 3, 2023 6:59:56 GMT -5
Thank you for your prompt response, if I pull the trigger on this I would need a preamp.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Dec 3, 2023 10:14:15 GMT -5
Thank you for your prompt response, if I pull the trigger on this I would need a preamp. Unless there is product information that I have overlooked, then yes you will need a phono pre-amp, like the one Emotiva offers(XPS-1) or similar. emotiva.com/collections/pre-amps/products/xps-1 |
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Post by ted999 on Jan 23, 2024 13:11:16 GMT -5
Need a quick confirmation. I want to add my A-100 amp to the MR1 I plan to purchase, hooking it to the two pre-outs marked for wides. Does the setup procedure automatically activate the wides in 9.2.4?
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Post by ted999 on Jan 31, 2024 10:18:41 GMT -5
My wish list. Once one sets up the wides in 9.1.4, DTS:X Pro becomes available. Since the MR1 already has DTS:X, I hope that a future firmware update adds DTS:X Pro. I want this because DTS:X Pro activates all 13 speakers for upscaled non-Atmos sources, whereas DTS:X does not.
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ted99
Seeker Of Truth
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Post by ted99 on Mar 3, 2024 9:50:34 GMT -5
The latest firmware update made a big improvement in the MR-1 sound. Seems fuller and more open--can't describe it any better than that.
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Post by mikec1231 on Jun 17, 2024 14:58:05 GMT -5
I have a new MR1L that is currently connected to my Sony Bravia TV, AppleTV, and surround speakers. My house is pre wired in 4 rooms with stereo speakers, including outdoors. I would like to be able to listen to music outside by the pool from Spotify via my TV apps. I also have an Adcom gfs-6 speaker selector available that is currently not connected.
Can someone tell me if I can connect any of these additional speakers to my Emotiva and how?
Thanks
Mike
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 18, 2024 9:06:59 GMT -5
That question is a lot more complicated than it seems. (Although odds are you can do what you want.) For example... - whether you ONLY want to listen to different sets of stereo speakers or whether you have surround sound in your main room - whether you want to be able to listen to the speakers in multiple locations at the same time - and, if so, whether the speakers are similar or not - and, depending on other answers, whether your speakers are 4 Ohm, or 8 Ohm, or a mix - and whether you "only want background music" or want high quality music - sometimes at relatively high listening levels. There are a LOT of different ways in which things can be connected depending on EXACTLY what you need and want to do. Also note that your Adcom speaker switch has some sort of switchable "low impedance protection"... This COULD offer you even more options... but MIGHT compromise sound quality if you use it. (But THAT would depend on how you hook things up and how good your various speakers are.) I have a new MR1L that is currently connected to my Sony Bravia TV, AppleTV, and surround speakers. My house is pre wired in 4 rooms with stereo speakers, including outdoors. I would like to be able to listen to music outside by the pool from Spotify via my TV apps. I also have an Adcom gfs-6 speaker selector available that is currently not connected. Can someone tell me if I can connect any of these additional speakers to my Emotiva and how? Thanks Mike |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 18, 2024 9:23:24 GMT -5
To be quite honest I suspect that the ability to pass through or switch 8k video will disappear over the next several years. At the moment there are almost no 8k video SOURCES (although I'm sure 8k streamers are on the way). And, according to a recent survey, more than half of folks who have smart TVs already ONLY do streaming as a source. And we've already got Roku TVs and Google TVs... (And the very few 8k sources we do have are gaming consoles, which have "special requirements", and usually get connected directly to the TV anyway.) In other words it's sort of obvious that the direction we're going in is to stream directly into the TV... (using a nice easy cheap Ethernet cable). And connect the few different VIDEO sources we have directly to the TV... Let the TV do any video selection and switching that we need... And just use the processor or AVR for AUDIO. (We may all actually live to see the end of HDMI...  ) Since discs are on the decline, and so far we don't have 8k discs, ALL we really need is a 4k HDMI connection between the Blu-Ray player and the TV. (At the moment the only practical reason why we need an HDMI connection there - instead of Ethernet - is the copy protection requirements tied to the content on the discs.) The funny thing is if you wanted all that without the amplifiers it would cost you more. You know a Pre Pro. Denon doesn't make one. It has been years that Denon made one. It was a pro model, and before that a pretty high end pricey one. Now it is all receivers. I am hoping Marantz and Denon can have reliable HDMI boards. I am still not sold on the 8K pass through boards, especially when you consider the money. View Attachment the core thing I look at are the essentials and I think at least Denon and if not Marantz too forgot how to give us a great linear power supply. Inside of my Denon AVR-4802. No HDMI, no Atmos, no Alexa and no 16 channels, but it honestly does its 125 watts per channel into 8 ohms at .05 THD and that is full bandpass of course. THX Ultra 2 certified as well. If they made a Pre Pro with the same commitment as the 4802, I would be all over it and run separate amplifiers. I do that partially on the 4802. What do I need 16 channels for? If I have to ask, I don't need it. Your mileage may vary. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 18, 2024 9:38:30 GMT -5
What tech we can afford is always relative. I remember when gasoline was 28 CENTS a gallon... And amid-priced family car cost $3500... But a 25" color TV was a major investment. (And I bought one of the first home computers... it cost over $2000... and came with 16k of RAM.) Now gas is ten times that much... And cars are ten times that much... But you can get an 80" TV on sale for less than that 25" TV used to cost... IMO times are tougher than they have ever been especially for the average blue collar person, the prices on this stuff is outlandish especially for mediocre sounding gear like Denon and Marantz, the last Marantz processor I owned sounded nowhere near as good as my then owned Sherbourn PT-7020C4 which I found hilarious, I would never pay the kind of money they ask for these pieces, sure I don't have 16 channels but who in a normal theater room even needs that many. The way things are going a 2 channel setup looks better by the day. Chad Let’s be honest these products are not at all aimed for the average blue collar worker. |
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Can someone explain the attraction of the HT receiver? And at the stratospheric price of the new Denon 'flagship'? Given that this beast will be obsoleted in a year and technologically obsolete in 18 months?
)
