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Post by PaulBe on Oct 16, 2022 8:46:31 GMT -5
It would be a game changer if Emo could do a dante or aes67 type input module for the g4's but have many doubts until the g5's are released  Yes class d is perenially described as a digital amp unfortunately . I much prefer switching amp that uses pwm [pulse width modulation ] or pdm ;yet another circuit type ,, I understand what is being described here is the inevitable eradication of analogue rcas and xlr's if only for the gain in back panel space [even a trinnov 32 is festooned with xlr's and rcas ] .This is good news for the multiple channels that the new object codecs require now and in the future .. What we will see soon enough is like the new storm audio ISP EVO which just turned up at CEDIA
youtu.be/T2YxMHgSF84 Yes. That ISP EVO, and similar products, are the future. |
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Post by bblv on Oct 16, 2022 9:22:20 GMT -5
At first I was extremely annoyed at this announcement, but if I can truly upgrade to the RMC-1+ for $699 then I have no problem with that. I had already expected to pay a couple hundred for the upgraded HDMI board in time, so this falls within those expectations. If they can deliver all of the other updates that have been teased for well over a year on the G3P at the same time then I’ll be satisfied.
The real question for me as an RMC-1 owner is when are the channel expansion upgrades going to be available. I’d like to see them offered as an add-on option when I send in for the + upgrade “mid Summer 2023”. Wishful thinking based on history, I suppose.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 16, 2022 10:33:55 GMT -5
Please keep us informed about their answer regarding European customers. It seems that this forum is not great at flagging private messages I have sent you one, in case you have not noticed it. I get a flag when I receive a PM, do you not? |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 16, 2022 10:38:00 GMT -5
At first I was extremely annoyed at this announcement, but if I can truly upgrade to the RMC-1+ for $699 then I have no problem with that. I had already expected to pay a couple hundred for the upgraded HDMI board in time, so this falls within those expectations. If they can deliver all of the other updates that have been teased for well over a year on the G3P at the same time then I’ll be satisfied. The real question for me as an RMC-1 owner is when are the channel expansion upgrades going to be available. I’d like to see them offered as an add-on option when I send in for the + upgrade “mid Summer 2023”. Wishful thinking based on history, I suppose. The last HDMI upgrade (XMC-1v3) was $400, I was expecting $500-$600 for this one. At $699 the upgrade is just slightly more than HDMI alone was likely to be, and yes, within expectations. It would be nice for those wanting expansion to get it at the same time. |
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Post by tngiloy on Oct 16, 2022 11:43:05 GMT -5
This is off topic, but since many of the notifications are from this thread I was hoping someone here might help.
Is there a way to limit the duplicate "you have updated threads" notifications?
I am subscribed to 3 different threads on the Emotiva Lounge site. This morning there were 30+ thread update notifications in my email. There should be only three notifications.
I am also subscribed to a few threads on the AVS forum. If one of the threads has multiple new posts, I only get one email notification. If there are new posts on 3 different threads I will get three notifications- one for each of the different threads. This is how it should work.
Is there a setting I'm missing or is this something Emo can fix??
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Oct 16, 2022 11:59:42 GMT -5
Will the PLUS versions of the processors ie G4P have DLBC? Hopefully they are going OEM so it’ll be baked into their solution.
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Post by repeetavx on Oct 16, 2022 13:39:03 GMT -5
The real question for me as an RMC-1 owner is when are the channel expansion upgrades going to be available. I’d like to see them offered as an add-on option when I send in for the + upgrade “mid Summer 2023”. Wishful thinking based on history, I suppose. Hmmmm? I wonder if Gen. 4 processors will even have "expansion slots"? |
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Post by leonski on Oct 16, 2022 14:34:32 GMT -5
The real question for me as an RMC-1 owner is when are the channel expansion upgrades going to be available. I’d like to see them offered as an add-on option when I send in for the + upgrade “mid Summer 2023”. Wishful thinking based on history, I suppose. Hmmmm? I wonder if Gen. 4 processors will even have "expansion slots"? In order to be 'forward compatible', I'd sure hope SO. I'd tend to skip stuff that was not......since the Churn is in full ahead mode. Just for example? Look at HT receivers with such extremely short product life cycles. |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Oct 16, 2022 15:14:56 GMT -5
The real question for me as an RMC-1 owner is when are the channel expansion upgrades going to be available. I’d like to see them offered as an add-on option when I send in for the + upgrade “mid Summer 2023”. Wishful thinking based on history, I suppose. Hmmmm? I wonder if Gen. 4 processors will even have "expansion slots"? Hopefully they will do away with that and just sell it with the additional channels from the start. Better yet, let some other company deal with the 11.1.8 customers who will be few and far in between. Stick the 80% rule. |
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Post by leonski on Oct 16, 2022 16:00:38 GMT -5
channels and features/technology are related but not quite the same.
For example? Hasn't HDMI gone thru several revisions? Are they ALL compatible? What is Latest?
IMO....and I'll admit to being a Stereo Guy, you need Better not MORE.....But that's a minority opinion......
Just an example? Somebody with only so much to spend? Buy a PAIR of really nice speakers or a set of 7 'lesser'?
Buy a really GOOD Stereo amp or a 7 channel amp....or god forbid, a HT receiver?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 16, 2022 16:03:47 GMT -5
The real question for me as an RMC-1 owner is when are the channel expansion upgrades going to be available. I’d like to see them offered as an add-on option when I send in for the + upgrade “mid Summer 2023”. Wishful thinking based on history, I suppose. Hmmmm? I wonder if Gen. 4 processors will even have "expansion slots"? Since there is an option to have your personal processor upgraded, then one would expect the RMC-1 to retain its expansion slots, and the others would continue to not have them. I’d still expect the possibility that the Video card could be upgraded (on all of the models), though would be surprised if it ever happened. |
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Post by leonski on Oct 16, 2022 17:47:07 GMT -5
Audio?
The REAL trick is to be upgradeable or adaptable to new stuff which has not quite been thought either OF or THRU yet.......
Say HDMI 3.0 or even some new or novel connector. Current is 2.1 and I see 5 connectors listed....including an automotive call-out.
I'd guess we are no more than a year away from the announcement of 2.2 or higher......and THAN that throws everything up for grabs.....maybe.
I see people here even having difficulty with the ARC....which I use easily and without even KNOWING what I was doing.
Expansion slots are, I think needed....A good idea going forward which is where all this stuff is heading.....like it or not......
BTW? HDMI started with a semi-compatible (no audio) standard called DVI......I dealt with that ONCE and had to run RCA cables for the
audio.....
RETRO slots are neat, too. somepersons keep 'legacy' equipment around. My PS3 is among the last with a optical out. Now? That's being skipped and
you are expected to use ARC......Which makes my connection scheme problematic. But If I had a card with an HDMI / Optical out? EASY to connect something
which may not be fully 'modern'...
Someone might even want a Phono. input.....Moving Magnet OR Moving Coil.....and with some adjustments. Not ME, for sure, but you get the idea. Even a board which
would work with DVD-Audio or SACD......neat.
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Post by jim80z on Oct 16, 2022 23:37:36 GMT -5
Hmmmm? I wonder if Gen. 4 processors will even have "expansion slots"? Hopefully they will do away with that and just sell it with the additional channels from the start. Better yet, let some other company deal with the 11.1.8 customers who will be few and far in between. Stick the 80% rule. I don't think this is a good idea. Even if I put aside the fact that one of the reasons I (and others) purchased the RMC-1 was for its expandable output channel capability, losing this expandability would be a mistake imo. For example the audio formats are expanding not contracting , more channels/more speakers/at higher resolution, many people are investing in more subwoofers and want to be able to manage the subs individual outputs for best room effect, etc etc. In any case Emo has the non expandable processor models based on common architecture for the 80% . Now for me (and I accept that I may start to be in the minority with the following) I need something that will handle 9.4.8 today. With respect to the .4 I couldn't wait so have purchased a MiniDSP Flex for the subs and for the .8 I have fused the middle atmos channels on the left and right to give me .6. So I need 2 output cards to cater for my current config. Beyond that at some point Id like to add another 2 surrounds (I have two rows of seats that Id like dedicated surrounds to) and although not mentioned as a 4G capability Id like Emo to expand into Auro 3D at some point and would like to add 2+ speakers of god (also needed for DTS X Pro at some point? lets see what happens). Now I dont know how many people are in the same boat needing more channels etc 5%, 10%, 20% but Im sure they are there and not few and far between (maybe Emo has some statistics?). Now if Emo is more aligned to your thoughts above then I hope they are big enough to let us all know and we can consider going somewhere else. |
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Post by leonski on Oct 16, 2022 23:58:18 GMT -5
Hopefully they will do away with that and just sell it with the additional channels from the start. Better yet, let some other company deal with the 11.1.8 customers who will be few and far in between. Stick the 80% rule. I don't think this is a good idea. Even if I put aside the fact that one of the reasons I (and others) purchased the RMC-1 was for its expandable output channel capability, losing this expandability would be a mistake imo. For example the audio formats are expanding not contracting , more channels/more speakers/at higher resolution, many people are investing in more subwoofers and want to be able to manage the subs individual outputs for best room effect, etc etc. In any case Emo has the non expandable processor models based on common architecture for the 80% . Now for me (and I accept that I may start to be in the minority with the following) I need something that will handle 9.4.8 today. With respect to the .4 I couldn't wait so have purchased a MiniDSP Flex for the subs and for the .8 I have fused the middle atmos channels on the left and right to give me .6. So I need 2 output cards to cater for my current config. Beyond that at some point Id like to add another 2 surrounds (I have two rows of seats that Id like dedicated surrounds to) and although not mentioned as a 4G capability Id like Emo to expand into Auro 3D at some point and would like to add 2+ speakers of god (also needed for DTS X Pro at some point? lets see what happens). Now I dont know how many people are in the same boat needing more channels etc 5%, 10%, 20% but Im sure they are there and not few and far between (maybe Emo has some statistics?). Now if Emo is more aligned to your thoughts above then I hope they are big enough to let us all know and we can consider going somewhere else. Given numbers of potential sales.....profit PER and cost of going to a clean sheet design? I think the expansion slot idea has some merit. And not just 'more channels'.....but more FUNCTIONALITY and maybe even some retro stuff. I looked at the top model now for sale (nomenclature is gibberish to me) and saw the photo WITH 2 additional cards....of 3 possible. Extra XLR functionality and the 2nd card was a PHONO card.....and just as I described with MM/MC switching and capacitance options...... Even IF you were to sell the new cards at development PLUS fabrication PLUS support costs? You'd still sell MORE base units which ARE north of 3700$ each.....so really? You'll selll more of them and get more customers into the EMO Ecosystem...... From a corporate viewpoint, not at all a bad idea. ME? I'd add a full-featured BASS MANAGEMENT card. 3 sub outs? XLR and RCA..... Crossovers of variable slope (12 / 18 / 24) and down to 30hz.......Make it so the analogue outs of the pre-pro are THAN also low cut....... |
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Post by Lsc on Oct 17, 2022 6:19:38 GMT -5
Hopefully they will do away with that and just sell it with the additional channels from the start. Better yet, let some other company deal with the 11.1.8 customers who will be few and far in between. Stick the 80% rule. I don't think this is a good idea. Even if I put aside the fact that one of the reasons I (and others) purchased the RMC-1 was for its expandable output channel capability, losing this expandability would be a mistake imo. For example the audio formats are expanding not contracting , more channels/more speakers/at higher resolution, many people are investing in more subwoofers and want to be able to manage the subs individual outputs for best room effect, etc etc. In any case Emo has the non expandable processor models based on common architecture for the 80% . Now for me (and I accept that I may start to be in the minority with the following) I need something that will handle 9.4.8 today. With respect to the .4 I couldn't wait so have purchased a MiniDSP Flex for the subs and for the .8 I have fused the middle atmos channels on the left and right to give me .6. So I need 2 output cards to cater for my current config. Beyond that at some point Id like to add another 2 surrounds (I have two rows of seats that Id like dedicated surrounds to) and although not mentioned as a 4G capability Id like Emo to expand into Auro 3D at some point and would like to add 2+ speakers of god (also needed for DTS X Pro at some point? lets see what happens). Now I dont know how many people are in the same boat needing more channels etc 5%, 10%, 20% but Im sure they are there and not few and far between (maybe Emo has some statistics?). Now if Emo is more aligned to your thoughts above then I hope they are big enough to let us all know and we can consider going somewhere else. What I’m saying is IF they want to support 11.4.8 or whatever crazy number of channels there is an appetite for (I’m not sure), they should build a processor that natively does this in both hardware and especially software. It’s one thing to say well I want to add a few more speakers irrespective of how insignificant the additions may be to the overall sound. That’s easy right? You just mount a few more speakers and run the wires. The last I checked emotiva doesn’t have a team of engineers that know how to write algorithms to support the additional channels. They use Dolby or DTS’s and plug into it. So if Dolby has support for 11.x.8 and emotiva can plug that in their processing engine then it makes sense. But if the consumer Dolby atmos only supports 9.1.6 (whatever they has access to) and they have to write additional code to go 11.x.8, I’m saying the investment probably won’t be worth it. I work in business software and know how much we pay our developers to build simple stuff. The cost to do this complex stuff, I’d guess is cost prohibitive. I could be totally wrong. All I’m saying is that unless that 11.x.8 becomes main stream, support what the chip makers support. WHEN they support more channels, we’ll then come out with another processor that supports this. Don’t add the silly expansion slots where people pay an extra $1000 for these empty slots then deliver nothing. At least that what I would do if I was in charge of product at Emotiva. Just 1 person’s opinion. |
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Post by doc1963 on Oct 17, 2022 8:01:24 GMT -5
Will the PLUS versions of the processors ie G4P have DLBC? Hopefully they are going OEM so it’ll be baked into their solution. Don't know, but I'll add this interesting tidbit... In a Q&A sponsored by Audioholics with Sound United, a question was asked whether Dirac would be ported back to the current AV8805. The answer was "NO" as the DSP used in the 8805 does not support Dirac and the AV10 uses an upgraded DSP. Now... the G3Ps use the same AD "Griffin Lite" DSP as the 8805 uses. The 8805 never had Dirac and never will. The G3Ps required the advent of the external "black box" in order for Emotiva to deliver upon their promise of Dirac support. I've also read that AD is no longer writing patches for the Griffin Lite (which may also partially explain why we are where we are) and will not support the newer versions of DSU or DTS-X Pro. So, with that said, it's my hunch that Emotiva will also need to make a DSP change to even think about delivering anything above what they've currently managed to do. And since they're moving to TI DACs, I have to wonder if a change to TI DSPs is also being considered...  |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Oct 17, 2022 8:16:41 GMT -5
So if Dolby has support for 11.x.8 . . . Dolby does. Front and Rear Heights, plus four Tops.  I think you need a dedicated theater for this. I tried Width speakers for a while until I found it too challenging to get the best from the system for 2 channel music, the floor standing speakers bothered the bass so I went back to 7 bed channels. In-Wall speakers solve a lot of issues for HT. This is how one manufacturer outputs more than 16 channels. They use breakout cables so the extra connections are compact, this is something Emotiva should consider IMO. This would allow the user to use whatever number of channels up to the maximum the breakout output allows, which in the case of what can be seen in the photo below is 8 channels each. Each channel is assignable to a numbered output.  |
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Post by cwt on Oct 17, 2022 8:48:13 GMT -5
Now... the G3Ps use the same AD "Griffin Lite" DSP as the 8805 uses. The 8805 never had Dirac and never will. The G3Ps required the advent of the external "black box" in order for Emotiva to deliver upon their promise of Dirac support. I've also read that AD is no longer writing patches for the Griffin Lite (which may also partially explain why we are where we are) and will not support the newer versions of DSU or DTS-X Pro. So, with that said, it's my hunch that Emotiva will also need to make a DSP change to even think about delivering anything above what they've currently managed to do. And since they're moving to TI DACs, I have to wonder if a change to TI DSPs is also being considered... A very good assumption Doc . Back to when the xmc1 had TI processing and built in dirac . Emo has taken note of Arcam jbl synthesis audio control etc and seen what can be added with their TI dsp's ; a full list including DBLC .. It is notable that all the rest have auro 3d and auromatic but I guess Emo is sticking to its "wheres the discs" policy . Wonder if just the upmixer can be licensed ? Or logic 7 or something from the past |
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 17, 2022 9:22:17 GMT -5
I HATE….(as an end user) now, this ENTIRE business of the audio video processor and all of its dilemma and quirks. Could I be the only one…. I don’t think 🤔 so!!
This is no diss by any means, to any one manufacturer of this component by anyone.
For the homeowner end user, no one should need to be a rocket 🚀 scientist or a hoop jumper to go into the living room, pop in a disc and be happy. The industry itself has done a good job of screwing that up.
It was a BLAST back in 2001 when I transitioned my stereo to home theater with integrated subwoofer/s.
But the current state??
Loudspeakers are forever.
Amplifiers forever.
The rest is a mess….all the options configurations etc. did a nice job of destroying the fun
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 17, 2022 9:29:34 GMT -5
Anthony Grimani has an excellent series of videos on multi-channel room design, speaker placement, and speaker count per room size - www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLes6453-4e4YutZxrWoU-3Pn55HsdmqLKTrinnov has their ideas too - www.youtube.com/watch?v=de7mtHD_m6IDolby, DTS, and Auro have competing implementations with some overlap. Until these groups get on the same page, good compromise is the key - I'm trying to be kind. I don't believe they will ever be on the same page. Schizophrenia rules in the industry. The industry blows a lot of smoke. Dolby can't even make their production and reproduction requirements similar. More channels is not necessarily better immersion. Fused channels with more speakers than one per channel is not more immersion. We can do anything we want according to our tastes. I've done some of the same. But, there is a difference between reproduction and taste. Industry schizophrenia makes the reproduction smoky and leaves a lot of room for taste. The industry takes advantage of taste - look, shiny object (think more gold thingies) - keeps the money flowing and blows smoke over their schizophrenia. Both RMC's can support 9.1.6. At least the connections are on the back panel. The dot one Sub channel can easily be multiplied with a controller for multiple Subs, or by using Sub amps with built-in DSP. I would prefer multiple Sub outs (4), on the RMC, before adding more unsupported height channels. The RMC's can already handle 3 Subs if you are willing to limit your layout to 4 height channels. There is overlapping compatibility between competing immersion systems with 4 correctly placed height channels. IMO, 4 properly placed height channels is a good limit in most rooms - keeps the immersion and intelligibility up, and the cacophony down. Emotiva has been doing a good job of working with the industry mess. The industry IS a mess. Emotiva didn't create the mess. |
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