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Post by doc1963 on Nov 30, 2022 10:19:32 GMT -5
My gut is telling me to just stay the course and upgrade to Emotive G4 as the price to do so is very fair. The unknown is having a warranty hole for something that has more problems based on when those G4 units actually go to market. I truly appreciate Emotiva as a company and in general, what you get for the money I look at it this way... We're in the very early stages of them introducing the G4 processors along with an "upgrade" program. Aside from what they've already said, their whole line of thinking when it comes to "warranty" for those of us who choose to upgrade might change (which has been know to happen). But even if it doesn't, I've never known Emotiva to be unfair when it comes to a service repair outside of their warranty. For me, and me only, if I need to give up 4 years of warranty (upgraders will get at least 1 year) which I might never need in order to keep the upgrade price as low as possible, I'm okay with that. If an electronic device such as this was going to fail, it would likely be within the first year anyway...  |
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 30, 2022 10:44:15 GMT -5
Shows like Axpona cost a LOT of money. It's time to spend money on fixing the kinks. I agree with doc1963 concerning warranty issues.
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Post by thxultra on Nov 30, 2022 11:13:31 GMT -5
Shows like Axpona cost a LOT of money. It's time to spend money on fixing the kinks. I agree with doc1963 concerning warranty issues. Shows like Axpona are also great advertisement. Never heard of hifi rose before I went last year but have to admit I'm eyeing one of their streamers. Would be a great place to show off these new processors. Really hoping they offer a upgrade path for the xmc-2 to the RMC-1l+ though. Not as interested in the XMC-2+ because I really want the better DAC/analogue board. Will be interesting to see if Music streaming includes a roon endpoint also. |
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 30, 2022 14:19:55 GMT -5
Shows like Axpona cost a LOT of money. It's time to spend money on fixing the kinks. I agree with doc1963 concerning warranty issues. Shows like Axpona are also great advertisement. Never heard of hifi rose before I went last year but have to admit I'm eyeing one of their streamers. Would be a great place to show off these new processors. Really hoping they offer a upgrade path for the xmc-2 to the RMC-1l+ though. Not as interested in the XMC-2+ because I really want the better DAC/analogue board. Will be interesting to see if Music streaming includes a roon endpoint also. Does a device like this make the G3P Roon ready? With no need to wait for G4P? roonlabs.com/nucleus |
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Post by thxultra on Nov 30, 2022 14:24:29 GMT -5
Shows like Axpona are also great advertisement. Never heard of hifi rose before I went last year but have to admit I'm eyeing one of their streamers. Would be a great place to show off these new processors. Really hoping they offer a upgrade path for the xmc-2 to the RMC-1l+ though. Not as interested in the XMC-2+ because I really want the better DAC/analogue board. Will be interesting to see if Music streaming includes a roon endpoint also. Does a device like this make the G3P Roon ready? With no need to wait for G4P? roonlabs.com/nucleusThe roon nucleus is a roon core server in a box. Comes all setup so pretty much plug and play. I use a pc I built for my core though was cheaper. To use roon you also need a endpoint. With my XMC-2 for my endpoint I use a raspberry pi running RoPieee. Was really easy to setup and configure and works great. ropieee.org/ |
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 30, 2022 14:57:29 GMT -5
The roon nucleus is a roon core server in a box. Comes all setup so pretty much plug and play. I use a pc I built for my core though was cheaper. To use roon you also need a endpoint. With my XMC-2 for my endpoint I use a raspberry pi running RoPieee. Was really easy to setup and configure and works great. ropieee.org/ Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the process. The Roon Nucleus has an HDMI output that can be directly connected to a processor like the G3P, or any other processor/endpoint with an HDMI IN. Looks like the Roon Nucleus can distribute audio from its local HD/SSD, external Drive, or network connected services. True? In multi-channel? I figure I'm missing something here. The closest thing I use is JRiver or WMP, and can output local 2 ch audio, analog or digital, from my computer to the RMC-1L. I used this briefly, and don't have it connected to the RMC-1L anymore. Maybe I have some blanks here. I don't understand what more is necessary to make an EMO processor Roon ready. |
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Post by thxultra on Nov 30, 2022 15:26:17 GMT -5
The roon nucleus is a roon core server in a box. Comes all setup so pretty much plug and play. I use a pc I built for my core though was cheaper. To use roon you also need a endpoint. With my XMC-2 for my endpoint I use a raspberry pi running RoPieee. Was really easy to setup and configure and works great. ropieee.org/ Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the process. The Roon Nucleus has an HDMI output that can be directly connected to a processor like the G3P, or any other processor/endpoint with an HDMI IN. Looks like the Roon Nucleus can distribute audio from its local HD/SSD, external Drive, or network connected services. True? In multi-channel? I figure I'm missing something here. The closest thing I use is JRiver or WMP, and can output local 2 ch audio, analog or digital, from my computer to the RMC-1L. I used this briefly, and don't have it connected to the RMC-1L anymore. Maybe I have some blanks here. I don't understand what more is necessary to make an EMO processor Roon ready. You are right never knew the nucleus had a HDMI port. So ya looks like you could plug the nucleus into the RMC-1l and run roon that way (nucleus as the core server and endpoint). You can also add other endpoints and use them with that nucleus so you would have a multi room setup. Roon isn't multi channel (really hoping they add atmos support) just 2 channel. Works with tidal, Qobuz and network attach servers/storge. Also supports hi-res formats and DSD. Roon also gives album art, album/artiest info and suggestions. Side note roon is raising prices soon so if you want the lifetime subscription I would get that now before the price increase... Edit... Should have said this before but even if the G4 processors support roon you will still need a core server or Nucleus to use roon with it. |
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Post by tngiloy on Nov 30, 2022 16:19:28 GMT -5
I have a Nucleus and RMC-1L. The Nucleus is connected directly the G3P by HDMI and indirectly by usb to an AudioGD dac and then to the G3P via xlr.
The HDMI connection will send multi-channel music to the RMC-1L, but only if the files(.dsf) are converted to pcm in the Nucleus or are pcm to start with. There are options in the nucleus to covert dsd to pcm, dsd over DoP or 'original dCS method', but I have only gotten pcm to work. But I'd be lying to say I could hear the difference between dsd direct and dsd converted to pcm. By converting to pcm I am also able to apply Dirac.
98% of my music is 2-channel, so I rarely use the hdmi connection, but it does work. And works for 2-ch as well.
You can also connect the Nucleus directly to the G3P via usb and bypass a dac unit, but the G3P still does NOT accept dsd over DoP as was originally promised. The dac's in the Emo's are very good. I prefer my Audio GD R8 MK2, but it wasn't cheap and the Emo's usb in is free for the taking.
Although I have yet to find the perfect component, the Nucleus is close. And I love the cataloging that Roon does with my files and the ease that I can play them. I can highly recommend the Nucleus, but if I were computer savvy, using a computer and/or raspberry pi as the core is another option. But I'm not savvy and the Nucleus works great for my needs.
You should be able to trial Roon to see if you like it before buying. I am a geezer who used to read the album covers of my music to get the deeper info on the bands/music/production, etc. Roon gives that same kind of info and adds suggestions for other music. Roon also offers integration into Tidal and qobuz if those interest you. I have more than enough cd's and sacd's and downloads to keep me in music for years, but they are available.
Bottom line is that I recommend both the Nucleus and Roon. YMMV.
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 30, 2022 16:25:10 GMT -5
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the process. The Roon Nucleus has an HDMI output that can be directly connected to a processor like the G3P, or any other processor/endpoint with an HDMI IN. Looks like the Roon Nucleus can distribute audio from its local HD/SSD, external Drive, or network connected services. True? In multi-channel? I figure I'm missing something here. The closest thing I use is JRiver or WMP, and can output local 2 ch audio, analog or digital, from my computer to the RMC-1L. I used this briefly, and don't have it connected to the RMC-1L anymore. Maybe I have some blanks here. I don't understand what more is necessary to make an EMO processor Roon ready. You are right never knew the nucleus had a HDMI port. So ya looks like you could plug the nucleus into the RMC-1l and run roon that way (nucleus as the core server and endpoint). You can also add other endpoints and use them with that nucleus so you would have a multi room setup. Roon isn't multi channel (really hoping they add atmos support) just 2 channel. Works with tidal, Qobuz and network attach servers/storge. Also supports hi-res formats and DSD. Roon also gives album art, album/artiest info and suggestions. Side note roon is raising prices soon so if you want the lifetime subscription I would get that now before the price increase... Edit... Should have said this before but even if the G4 processors support roon you will still need a core server or Nucleus to use roon with it. I hope Roon handles album art, album/artiest info, better than WM. I can play Hi-Rez PCM formats in WM. I've recorded a few valuable LP's, 24bit/96K, using Vinyl Studio. Hi-Rez and de-clicked. Then, playback in WM. WM will even find artwork and info for some. I have to move the Audio Rack near the computer again, so I can play computer recorded albums/LPs over the HT system. |
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Post by 5channels on Nov 30, 2022 19:10:02 GMT -5
I have a Nucleus and RMC-1L. The Nucleus is connected directly the G3P by HDMI and indirectly by usb to an AudioGD dac and then to the G3P via xlr. The HDMI connection will send multi-channel music to the RMC-1L, but only if the files(.dsf) are converted to pcm in the Nucleus or are pcm to start with. There are options in the nucleus to covert dsd to pcm, dsd over DoP or 'original dCS method', but I have only gotten pcm to work. But I'd be lying to say I could hear the difference between dsd direct and dsd converted to pcm. By converting to pcm I am also able to apply Dirac. 98% of my music is 2-channel, so I rarely use the hdmi connection, but it does work. And works for 2-ch as well. You can also connect the Nucleus directly to the G3P via usb and bypass a dac unit, but the G3P still does NOT accept dsd over DoP as was originally promised. The dac's in the Emo's are very good. I prefer my Audio GD R8 MK2, but it wasn't cheap and the Emo's usb in is free for the taking. Although I have yet to find the perfect component, the Nucleus is close. And I love the cataloging that Roon does with my files and the ease that I can play them. I can highly recommend the Nucleus, but if I were computer savvy, using a computer and/or raspberry pi as the core is another option. But I'm not savvy and the Nucleus works great for my needs. You should be able to trial Roon to see if you like it before buying. I am a geezer who used to read the album covers of my music to get the deeper info on the bands/music/production, etc. Roon gives that same kind of info and adds suggestions for other music. Roon also offers integration into Tidal and qobuz if those interest you. I have more than enough cd's and sacd's and downloads to keep me in music for years, but they are available. Bottom line is that I recommend both the Nucleus and Roon. YMMV. I do much the same with a Roon Rock installed on an IntelNUC (same thing as a Nucleus, less than half the price...I saw a photo recently of the Nucleus chassis opening....a NUC was sitting in the in the center of the Nucleus) ....HDMI out from the NUC into the XMC-2. Works well for the most part. Every once in a while the audio signal cuts out completely, no clips, no pops, no crackles....just silence for 10 to 15 seconds and then the audio is back. It only happens once per listening session....but I don't get much free time to listen for extended periods. If you want to build Roon on a NUC...here is part 1 of how to get yourself up and running www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtfXsVM9QDE&t=148s |
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Post by thxultra on Dec 1, 2022 8:29:31 GMT -5
You are right never knew the nucleus had a HDMI port. So ya looks like you could plug the nucleus into the RMC-1l and run roon that way (nucleus as the core server and endpoint). You can also add other endpoints and use them with that nucleus so you would have a multi room setup. Roon isn't multi channel (really hoping they add atmos support) just 2 channel. Works with tidal, Qobuz and network attach servers/storge. Also supports hi-res formats and DSD. Roon also gives album art, album/artiest info and suggestions. Side note roon is raising prices soon so if you want the lifetime subscription I would get that now before the price increase... Edit... Should have said this before but even if the G4 processors support roon you will still need a core server or Nucleus to use roon with it. I hope Roon handles album art, album/artiest info, better than WM. I can play Hi-Rez PCM formats in WM. I've recorded a few valuable LP's, 24bit/96K, using Vinyl Studio. Hi-Rez and de-clicked. Then, playback in WM. WM will even find artwork and info for some. I have to move the Audio Rack near the computer again, so I can play computer recorded albums/LPs over the HT system. I have found room to be pretty good with Album art/ information. Some of my more obscure dance singles and albums it does't have though. If you have jpeg pics of the cover art it will use those as well. If you get a roon supported streamer as a endpoint you will not need your computer near your audio rack. You can stream from room to a room endpoint. This is why I'm hoping the gen4 processors support soon. Not a deal breaker because the raspberry pi I have now works great. No clicks or pops and switches audio formats without any issues. I have it connected to the USB port on my xmc-2. On the multichannel topic earlier I was talking about support for Atmos track on Tidal and for me right now ROON doesn't support this. Hoping they add atmosphere support in the future. Could also be an issue with using the raspberry pi as a end point as I'm not sure if you can send atoms over usb.... If anyone has atoms working with roon let me know your setup. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Dec 1, 2022 9:54:19 GMT -5
A LOT of people seem to like Roon - especially if they enjoy all the "deep content". I also want to point something out here... Many folks have commented on the fact that the Roon Nucleus is somewhat expensive for "just a NUC with Roon installed on it". This is true - but it is also not unreasonable. If you are not comfortable setting up a computer and installing software yourself it is quite expensive to pay someone else to do it for you. And, as is usually the case, it is the software that makes a computer useful, and that must also be installed and configured, and those two collectively often comprise the biggest part of "the cost of owning and operating a computer". (For example, if you get a virus on your computer, it will cost you at least $125 to have the "experts" at Best Buy do the hour's work it will take to remove it, and having them install software for you isn't usually cheap either.) Therefore, paying a few hundred dollars extra, to have a system set up and configured for you, is not really unreasonable. I would also have to agree that I have never been able to hear a significant difference between DSD, DFF, and PCM. While the conversion process, in either direction, sometimes makes a very slight difference in sound, I cannot say that either sounds better to me. (The fact that physical SACD discs are difficult to rip into digital files is a separate concern; but I have never heard a benefit to using DSD of DSF files over PCM files.) (It's also worth noting that, quite often, DSD and PCM versions are mastered somewhat differently; but this difference remains even if you convert the DSD file into 24/96k or 24/192k PCM.) And, yes, DoP is still on the roadmap, although it has turned out to be a bit more difficult than we'd originally thought. I have a Nucleus and RMC-1L. The Nucleus is connected directly the G3P by HDMI and indirectly by usb to an AudioGD dac and then to the G3P via xlr. The HDMI connection will send multi-channel music to the RMC-1L, but only if the files(.dsf) are converted to pcm in the Nucleus or are pcm to start with. There are options in the nucleus to covert dsd to pcm, dsd over DoP or 'original dCS method', but I have only gotten pcm to work. But I'd be lying to say I could hear the difference between dsd direct and dsd converted to pcm. By converting to pcm I am also able to apply Dirac. 98% of my music is 2-channel, so I rarely use the hdmi connection, but it does work. And works for 2-ch as well. You can also connect the Nucleus directly to the G3P via usb and bypass a dac unit, but the G3P still does NOT accept dsd over DoP as was originally promised. The dac's in the Emo's are very good. I prefer my Audio GD R8 MK2, but it wasn't cheap and the Emo's usb in is free for the taking. Although I have yet to find the perfect component, the Nucleus is close. And I love the cataloging that Roon does with my files and the ease that I can play them. I can highly recommend the Nucleus, but if I were computer savvy, using a computer and/or raspberry pi as the core is another option. But I'm not savvy and the Nucleus works great for my needs. You should be able to trial Roon to see if you like it before buying. I am a geezer who used to read the album covers of my music to get the deeper info on the bands/music/production, etc. Roon gives that same kind of info and adds suggestions for other music. Roon also offers integration into Tidal and qobuz if those interest you. I have more than enough cd's and sacd's and downloads to keep me in music for years, but they are available. Bottom line is that I recommend both the Nucleus and Roon. YMMV. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Dec 1, 2022 10:25:46 GMT -5
Shorting the terminals on a woofer will NOT generally cause it to resonate more strongly. A woofer, with the wires unconnected, is essentially a weight and a spring (the cone is the weight and the suspension is the spring), and this arrangement is prone to resonate (it has a relatively high mechanical Q). In a tuned enclosure, the spring of the air in the box, and the weight of the air in the port, are added to these. By shorting the terminals, and adding damping, you add drag to that system. And this reduces the Q of the system. And, yes, assuming that the mass of the cone and the spring of the air are the major factors, this could add some energy dissipation. But, in simplest terms, it's also going to make the cone more difficult to move, and so it will act "more like a wall and less like an absorber". You could potentially increase the Q of the system by connecting a resonant circuit to the terminals. But it's still not going to have nearly as significant an effect as actually driving the cone with an appropriate signal. Like a speaker, you have the problem of "acoustic impedance", but in reverse... a "bad impedance match"... The transfer of acoustic energy from the low density of the air to the high effective density of the cone is very inefficient. (Most of the bass energy simply bounces off the cone and is reflected back into the room... which is already a limitation because of the size of the cone.) (And, yes, with bass it gets complicated, because very low frequencies can act sort of "like air pressure" in a small room, but still act something like "a wave bounding around".) Typical bass traps use things like fiber-fluff, which has a density that is much closer to air than that of solid cardboard, and so offers a better impedance match to the air. This better impedance match means that more energy is transferred into the absorber while less is reflected back into the room. (At that point it's up to the absorber to "burn it up so it doesn't find its way back into the room".) And, yes, adding another active signal is going to make the entire system far more complicated and difficult to calculate. (You can think of it as calculating things so that your active signal "yanks the wall out of the way so that the reflection doesn't happen"...) (And that, by doing so, "it is more effective than simply opening a small hole in the wall". And, yes, that is a technically very imprecise analogy, but it gets the basic idea across.) These devices, like the Bag End, claim to require no setup, or minimal setup, to be relatively insensitive to location, and seem to receive good reviews. I would have assumed the opposite - that they would need to be placed at very specific locations and configured rather carefully. (To be honest, all of those claims somewhat surprise me, but I've never personally heard one and, as I said, they have received excellent reviews in the past.) A 'shorted' cone woofer in an enclosure will have max absorption of bass energy at its resonant frequency? Isn't that the max amplitude of response? If that's true, than the response AND absorbtion of sound will fall at 6 or 12 db/octave below that frequency. I don't see that being particularly useful. Keith's 'hole in the wall' COULD turn into a helmholtz....... Using an active response model, like noise canceling headphones? I can see this actually working, for those who are comfortable with yet MORE system feedback.... My ONLY Latin? "Illegitimi non carborundum" good advice, any way you read it! |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Dec 1, 2022 10:27:26 GMT -5
I cannot answer 1. for you at this point. In general we will NOT be offering this as a "self-install" option. (But, as with the amp, I can't rule out the possibility of "special exceptions".) 1) Will gen4 get DLBC from the start? now i use minidsp hd for subs and would like to have single audio processor. 2) Is it possible to order "Gen4 upgrade kit" and install it by myself? i've already upgraded my XPA DR1 to DR2 with kits sold me by Emotiva. There is problem with Emotiva service in our country ( |
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Post by thxultra on Dec 1, 2022 10:42:51 GMT -5
A LOT of people seem to like Roon - especially if they enjoy all the "deep content". I also want to point something out here... Many folks have commented on the fact that the Roon Nucleus is somewhat expensive for "just a NUC with Roon installed on it". This is true - but it is also not unreasonable. If you are not comfortable setting up a computer and installing software yourself it is quite expensive to pay someone else to do it for you. And, as is usually the case, it is the software that makes a computer useful, and that must also be installed and configured, and those two collectively often comprise the biggest part of "the cost of owning and operating a computer". (For example, if you get a virus on your computer, it will cost you at least $125 to have the "experts" at Best Buy do the hour's work it will take to remove it, and having them install software for you isn't usually cheap either.) Therefore, paying a few hundred dollars extra, to have a system set up and configured for you, is not really unreasonable. I would also have to agree that I have never been able to hear a significant difference between DSD, DFF, and PCM. While the conversion process, in either direction, sometimes makes a very slight difference in sound, I cannot say that either sounds better to me. (The fact that physical SACD discs are difficult to rip into digital files is a separate concern; but I have never heard a benefit to using DSD of DSF files over PCM files.) (It's also worth noting that, quite often, DSD and PCM versions are mastered somewhat differently; but this difference remains even if you convert the DSD file into 24/96k or 24/192k PCM.) And, yes, DoP is still on the roadmap, although it has turned out to be a bit more difficult than we'd originally thought. I have a Nucleus and RMC-1L. The Nucleus is connected directly the G3P by HDMI and indirectly by usb to an AudioGD dac and then to the G3P via xlr. The HDMI connection will send multi-channel music to the RMC-1L, but only if the files(.dsf) are converted to pcm in the Nucleus or are pcm to start with. There are options in the nucleus to covert dsd to pcm, dsd over DoP or 'original dCS method', but I have only gotten pcm to work. But I'd be lying to say I could hear the difference between dsd direct and dsd converted to pcm. By converting to pcm I am also able to apply Dirac. 98% of my music is 2-channel, so I rarely use the hdmi connection, but it does work. And works for 2-ch as well. You can also connect the Nucleus directly to the G3P via usb and bypass a dac unit, but the G3P still does NOT accept dsd over DoP as was originally promised. The dac's in the Emo's are very good. I prefer my Audio GD R8 MK2, but it wasn't cheap and the Emo's usb in is free for the taking. Although I have yet to find the perfect component, the Nucleus is close. And I love the cataloging that Roon does with my files and the ease that I can play them. I can highly recommend the Nucleus, but if I were computer savvy, using a computer and/or raspberry pi as the core is another option. But I'm not savvy and the Nucleus works great for my needs. You should be able to trial Roon to see if you like it before buying. I am a geezer who used to read the album covers of my music to get the deeper info on the bands/music/production, etc. Roon gives that same kind of info and adds suggestions for other music. Roon also offers integration into Tidal and qobuz if those interest you. I have more than enough cd's and sacd's and downloads to keep me in music for years, but they are available. Bottom line is that I recommend both the Nucleus and Roon. YMMV. Sony tried to use copy protection as a way to sell SACD to record companies which is why they are so hard to rip. You have to have certain hardware that has "bug" that allow you to bypass the copy protection. Really a pain for those of us that have SACD collections that we would like to have on our media servers. To me at least with the SACD player I have when I set it to output PCM it sounds more harsh then when it outputs DSD. Could be a placebo effect also but seems that way to me. Always try to get the least amount on conversions possible though when I listen. I do use DIRAC on my XMC-2 either. To me the XMC-2 sounds better in my room without it. Need to try DIRAC again but to me the bass seemed weak compared to not using it. |
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Post by PaulBe on Dec 1, 2022 10:53:35 GMT -5
A LOT of people seem to like Roon - especially if they enjoy all the "deep content". I also want to point something out here... Many folks have commented on the fact that the Roon Nucleus is somewhat expensive for "just a NUC with Roon installed on it". This is true - but it is also not unreasonable. If you are not comfortable setting up a computer and installing software yourself it is quite expensive to pay someone else to do it for you. And, as is usually the case, it is the software that makes a computer useful, and that must also be installed and configured, and those two collectively often comprise the biggest part of "the cost of owning and operating a computer". (For example, if you get a virus on your computer, it will cost you at least $125 to have the "experts" at Best Buy do the hour's work it will take to remove it, and having them install software for you isn't usually cheap either.) Therefore, paying a few hundred dollars extra, to have a system set up and configured for you, is not really unreasonable. I would also have to agree that I have never been able to hear a significant difference between DSD, DFF, and PCM. While the conversion process, in either direction, sometimes makes a very slight difference in sound, I cannot say that either sounds better to me. (The fact that physical SACD discs are difficult to rip into digital files is a separate concern; but I have never heard a benefit to using DSD of DSF files over PCM files.) (It's also worth noting that, quite often, DSD and PCM versions are mastered somewhat differently; but this difference remains even if you convert the DSD file into 24/96k or 24/192k PCM.) And, yes, DoP is still on the roadmap, although it has turned out to be a bit more difficult than we'd originally thought. I have a Nucleus and RMC-1L. The Nucleus is connected directly the G3P by HDMI and indirectly by usb to an AudioGD dac and then to the G3P via xlr. The HDMI connection will send multi-channel music to the RMC-1L, but only if the files(.dsf) are converted to pcm in the Nucleus or are pcm to start with. There are options in the nucleus to covert dsd to pcm, dsd over DoP or 'original dCS method', but I have only gotten pcm to work. But I'd be lying to say I could hear the difference between dsd direct and dsd converted to pcm. By converting to pcm I am also able to apply Dirac. 98% of my music is 2-channel, so I rarely use the hdmi connection, but it does work. And works for 2-ch as well. You can also connect the Nucleus directly to the G3P via usb and bypass a dac unit, but the G3P still does NOT accept dsd over DoP as was originally promised. The dac's in the Emo's are very good. I prefer my Audio GD R8 MK2, but it wasn't cheap and the Emo's usb in is free for the taking. Although I have yet to find the perfect component, the Nucleus is close. And I love the cataloging that Roon does with my files and the ease that I can play them. I can highly recommend the Nucleus, but if I were computer savvy, using a computer and/or raspberry pi as the core is another option. But I'm not savvy and the Nucleus works great for my needs. You should be able to trial Roon to see if you like it before buying. I am a geezer who used to read the album covers of my music to get the deeper info on the bands/music/production, etc. Roon gives that same kind of info and adds suggestions for other music. Roon also offers integration into Tidal and qobuz if those interest you. I have more than enough cd's and sacd's and downloads to keep me in music for years, but they are available. Bottom line is that I recommend both the Nucleus and Roon. YMMV. Is Roon anything more than a sophisticated media player? I admit that I prefer physical media. If I want to learn more information about a recording or artist, I don’t mind reading written liner notes, or watching additional features; which I do on rare occasion. If I am curious enough to want ‘deep content’, I do an online search. I do see the value in having content on one ‘box’, and good software to make use of it. Paying an additional fee, on top of internet fees, to have quicker access to ‘deep content’ doesn’t appeal to me. The PCM/SACD argument could be discussed ad-nauseum. I play both. I’ll take Blu-ray music discs with all its features and formats; and lack of need for special players. I’m surprised SACD is still around. |
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Post by thxultra on Dec 1, 2022 11:07:11 GMT -5
A LOT of people seem to like Roon - especially if they enjoy all the "deep content". I also want to point something out here... Many folks have commented on the fact that the Roon Nucleus is somewhat expensive for "just a NUC with Roon installed on it". This is true - but it is also not unreasonable. If you are not comfortable setting up a computer and installing software yourself it is quite expensive to pay someone else to do it for you. And, as is usually the case, it is the software that makes a computer useful, and that must also be installed and configured, and those two collectively often comprise the biggest part of "the cost of owning and operating a computer". (For example, if you get a virus on your computer, it will cost you at least $125 to have the "experts" at Best Buy do the hour's work it will take to remove it, and having them install software for you isn't usually cheap either.) Therefore, paying a few hundred dollars extra, to have a system set up and configured for you, is not really unreasonable. I would also have to agree that I have never been able to hear a significant difference between DSD, DFF, and PCM. While the conversion process, in either direction, sometimes makes a very slight difference in sound, I cannot say that either sounds better to me. (The fact that physical SACD discs are difficult to rip into digital files is a separate concern; but I have never heard a benefit to using DSD of DSF files over PCM files.) (It's also worth noting that, quite often, DSD and PCM versions are mastered somewhat differently; but this difference remains even if you convert the DSD file into 24/96k or 24/192k PCM.) And, yes, DoP is still on the roadmap, although it has turned out to be a bit more difficult than we'd originally thought. Is Roon anything more than a sophisticated media player? I admit that I prefer physical media. If I want to learn more information about a recording or artist, I don’t mind reading written liner notes, or watching additional features; which I do on rare occasion. If I am curious enough to want ‘deep content’, I do an online search. I do see the value in having content on one ‘box’, and good software to make use of it. Paying an additional fee, on top of internet fees, to have quicker access to ‘deep content’ doesn’t appeal to me. The PCM/SACD argument could be discussed ad-nauseum. I play both. I’ll take Blu-ray music discs with all its features and formats; and lack of need for special players. I’m surprised SACD is still around. Think you summed it up well with sophisticated media player. That being said it does an amazing job at being just that. I originally got it when Sonos dropped support for my Sonos connect. Roon is a great multi room solution. I saved a good amount of money also because I'm able to use my old Sonos connect (the one Sonos doesn't support as a end point ) also raspberry pi boxes as end points. Roon does a great job of organizing your music library and pulling in album art and extra info. I just have my cds ripped to FLAC files but roon pulled in all the album art etc. It also allows you to listen to your music library on the go now with the arc app. Roon will also recommend other music you may like so it is good for discovering new music. Also works with Tidal and Qobuz so you can listen to those libraries from the same interface as your library. For digital media I always use roon (except tidal atoms tracks which I don't think it supports but don't quote me on this because it could be my endpoint also). I used EAC to get perfect rips of my cd collection. I still listen to physical LPs also but for digital roon is the way to go. So much better not having to look for cds, get up to switch them etc. They do have a free trail and it is super easy to setup. Worth checking out if you have any interest. You can set up the core server on a windows pc or Mac and it is pretty easy to setup. I did buy the lifetime license at the time and glad I did. I also hate extra monthly fees. I do feel like roon was worth the money for lifetime though. I saved the money I spent by not having to buy extra streaming hardware for my other rooms also... With roon you can play PCM and DSD files so no need for special hardware. Bigger problem is ripping SACD but you can buy DSD files from sites like HD tracks. Also the place I go to for hi-res PCM files. |
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Post by Zombie on Dec 1, 2022 11:12:01 GMT -5
A LOT of people seem to like Roon - especially if they enjoy all the "deep content". I also want to point something out here... Many folks have commented on the fact that the Roon Nucleus is somewhat expensive for "just a NUC with Roon installed on it". This is true - but it is also not unreasonable. If you are not comfortable setting up a computer and installing software yourself it is quite expensive to pay someone else to do it for you. And, as is usually the case, it is the software that makes a computer useful, and that must also be installed and configured, and those two collectively often comprise the biggest part of "the cost of owning and operating a computer". (For example, if you get a virus on your computer, it will cost you at least $125 to have the "experts" at Best Buy do the hour's work it will take to remove it, and having them install software for you isn't usually cheap either.) Therefore, paying a few hundred dollars extra, to have a system set up and configured for you, is not really unreasonable. I would also have to agree that I have never been able to hear a significant difference between DSD, DFF, and PCM. While the conversion process, in either direction, sometimes makes a very slight difference in sound, I cannot say that either sounds better to me. (The fact that physical SACD discs are difficult to rip into digital files is a separate concern; but I have never heard a benefit to using DSD of DSF files over PCM files.) (It's also worth noting that, quite often, DSD and PCM versions are mastered somewhat differently; but this difference remains even if you convert the DSD file into 24/96k or 24/192k PCM.) And, yes, DoP is still on the roadmap, although it has turned out to be a bit more difficult than we'd originally thought. Sony tried to use copy protection as a way to sell SACD to record companies which is why they are so hard to rip. You have to have certain hardware that has "bug" that allow you to bypass the copy protection. Really a pain for those of us that have SACD collections that we would like to have on our media servers. To me at least with the SACD player I have when I set it to output PCM it sounds more harsh then when it outputs DSD. Could be a placebo effect also but seems that way to me. Always try to get the least amount on conversions possible though when I listen. I do use DIRAC on my XMC-2 either. To me the XMC-2 sounds better in my room without it. Need to try DIRAC again but to me the bass seemed weak compared to not using it. I’ve got a pretty extensive SACD collection, I still buy them from Mobile Fidelity when interested titles are released. I’ve copied every one onto my Sony HAP Z1ES Server with zero issues. Never have had an issue doing it. |
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Post by thxultra on Dec 1, 2022 11:21:09 GMT -5
Sony tried to use copy protection as a way to sell SACD to record companies which is why they are so hard to rip. You have to have certain hardware that has "bug" that allow you to bypass the copy protection. Really a pain for those of us that have SACD collections that we would like to have on our media servers. To me at least with the SACD player I have when I set it to output PCM it sounds more harsh then when it outputs DSD. Could be a placebo effect also but seems that way to me. Always try to get the least amount on conversions possible though when I listen. I do use DIRAC on my XMC-2 either. To me the XMC-2 sounds better in my room without it. Need to try DIRAC again but to me the bass seemed weak compared to not using it. I’ve got a pretty extensive SACD collection, I still buy them from Mobile Fidelity when interested titles are released. I’ve copied every one onto my Sony HAP Z1ES Server with zero issues. Never have had an issue doing it. What did you use to rip your SACDs? I would like to rip mine so I can stream them with roon but last time I checked you needed certain hardware to do so. |
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Post by PaulBe on Dec 1, 2022 11:32:05 GMT -5
Is Roon anything more than a sophisticated media player? I admit that I prefer physical media. If I want to learn more information about a recording or artist, I don’t mind reading written liner notes, or watching additional features; which I do on rare occasion. If I am curious enough to want ‘deep content’, I do an online search. I do see the value in having content on one ‘box’, and good software to make use of it. Paying an additional fee, on top of internet fees, to have quicker access to ‘deep content’ doesn’t appeal to me. The PCM/SACD argument could be discussed ad-nauseum. I play both. I’ll take Blu-ray music discs with all its features and formats; and lack of need for special players. I’m surprised SACD is still around. Think you summed it up well with sophisticated media player. That being said it does an amazing job at being just that. I originally got it when Sonos dropped support for my Sonos connect. Roon is a great multi room solution. I saved a good amount of money also because I'm able to use my old Sonos connect (the one Sonos doesn't support as a end point ) also raspberry pi boxes as end points. Roon does a great job of organizing your music library and pulling in album art and extra info. I just have my cds ripped to FLAC files but roon pulled in all the album art etc. It also allows you to listen to your music library on the go now with the arc app. Roon will also recommend other music you may like so it is good for discovering new music. Also works with Tidal and Qobuz so you can listen to those libraries from the same interface as your library. For digital media I always use roon (except tidal atoms tracks which I don't think it supports but don't quote me on this because it could be my endpoint also). I used EAC to get perfect rips of my cd collection. I still listen to physical LPs also but for digital roon is the way to go. So much better not having to look for cds, get up to switch them etc. They do have a free trail and it is super easy to setup. Worth checking out if you have any interest. You can set up the core server on a windows pc or Mac and it is pretty easy to setup. I did buy the lifetime license at the time and glad I did. I also hate extra monthly fees. I do feel like roon was worth the money for lifetime though. I saved the money I spent by not having to buy extra streaming hardware for my other rooms also... With roon you can play PCM and DSD files so no need for special hardware. Bigger problem is ripping SACD but you can buy DSD files from sites like HD tracks. Also the place I go to for hi-res PCM files. Thanks thxultra. Your descriptions of Roon are very helpful. I like the ‘box’, including the minimal setup. Don’t want or need the multi-room or on-the-go cloud service, or the fee. Sometimes, the thing more expressible than music is silence. |
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