KeithL
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Posts: 10,273
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Post by KeithL on Nov 1, 2024 16:20:11 GMT -5
.......................... Thanks for the comprehensive clarification Keith. As always, a fount of information. Just to clarify... no support for Roon is planned in any of the streaming options? And will the USB input accept DSD Audio, as I can see that this is natively supported on the Burr Brown PCM1795 DAC chip? Our streamers will be Roon Ready. I don't have all of the details about exactly what support we're going to have for DSD and DoP yet... |
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NicS
Sensei
Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
Posts: 238
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Post by NicS on Nov 1, 2024 16:22:02 GMT -5
Thanks Keith.... very much hoping you guys allow for DSD, in all its flavors.
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Post by idontknow on Nov 1, 2024 21:48:42 GMT -5
A bit of CLARIFICATION.... about the streaming options on the new XMC-2+ and RMC-1+.
I'm seeing a lot of comments about this... both based on what was said at Emofest... and since then.
And, to be quite honest, depending on who you ask, you may get slightly different answers...
For example engineering can talk about things that are "still on the drawing board" and that "we're working on"...
Whereas the guys in sales are more limited to discussing current and definite future products...
THE FOLLOWING IS THE LATEST INFORMATION ABOUT THIS SUBJECT ON OUR CURRENT ROADMAP.
In case anyone was wondering; at this point all of this refers to an audio-only streamer. We currently have no plans for a video streamer. The FIRST steaming option that we're going to be offering is our separate streamer product... the DRS-1. This is the streamer that we previewed at EmoFest. It runs on custom hardware, developed by Emotiva and Volumio, and runs Volumio software. The streamer is well into the production cycle and will definitely be available shortly. (And, yes, the DRS-1 has both analog and digital outputs, and will work with any processor or preamp.) The SECOND option will be a streamer expansion module for the RMC-1+. This will probably be a bit further out... but is definitely on the way as well. It will probably offer much the same feature options as the DRS-1... but the hardware will live in one of the RMC-1+ expansion slots. (And, since the XMC-2+ doesn't have any expansion slots, this will only be an option for the RMC-1+.) And, finally, we are looking into the possibility of running the streaming capability on the processor's internal engine. If this turns out to be practical then it may eventually become an option for both the XMC-2+ and / or the RMC-1+. At this point this is quite literally no more and no less than something that we are considering. We are still actively considering it, and hoping that it may turn out to be possible, but we really don't know if it's going to turn out to be practical or not... (But, at this point, there's no point in asking us to say much more about it, because there are still too many unknowns...  ) I got an email from Mike in sales at Emotiva this morning. I say this acknowledging I know very little details I would need to know to make such assumptions, however I will make them in hopes of Emotiva enlightening us with some. Wouldn't it make more sense to get a nearly certain idea if running streaming on the internal Pi CM4 is feasible before building/designing and selling extra hardware that may ultimately not be needed (and takes up space for other add-ins you will want to sell and we want space for)? Not to mention easier, given it would be software (maybe minimal hardware?) rather than much more work to develop, manufacture and sell a custom add-in piece of hardware? Streaming built-in is on darn near every option these days. I don't want to have to buy some add-in card to get it because it was, for some reason, your first official way to get it then, sometime later learn I can update the OS on the CM4 and have it built-in and have no market to sell a (guessing) $300-$500 add in card on top of my $5000 unit, especially then being faced with the fact I paid extra for it on my already much more expensive RMC-1+, and now XMC-1+ gets it for free. #runonsentancesarethebestjustlivewithitIlearnedenglishinIdahoanddontfollowruleswellanyways |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 2, 2024 16:08:25 GMT -5
… The SECOND option will be a streamer expansion module for the RMC-1+. This will probably be a bit further out... but is definitely on the way as well. It will probably offer much the same feature options as the DRS-1... but the hardware will live in one of the RMC-1+ expansion slots. (And, since the XMC-2+ doesn't have any expansion slots, this will only be an option for the RMC-1+.) It’s good to have the clarification, I’ve added it to the FAQ. With regards to this second option, and in light of previous statements about making RMC-1+ expansion that customers want and will buy, wouldn’t this be a good time to query prospective RMC-1+ owners for their interests and priorities with regards to expansion (like the recent poll regarding Atmos channels)? I think it’s safe to say that there is very strong interest in the Subwoofer Module, because it not only allows more subwoofers, but also frees up the height channels enabling (at least) 9.5.6; and the Channel Expansion should also be very popular. But with all of the outboard options (including Emotiva’s), and an internal possibility, is a streamer that only works with the RMC-1+ the next expansion priority that owners want? Maybe it is, but maybe there’s something that would be more desirable, or where there are few or no other choices. Wouldn’t it be a good time to ask? |
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Post by aswiss on Nov 2, 2024 17:04:25 GMT -5
… The SECOND option will be a streamer expansion module for the RMC-1+. This will probably be a bit further out... but is definitely on the way as well. It will probably offer much the same feature options as the DRS-1... but the hardware will live in one of the RMC-1+ expansion slots. (And, since the XMC-2+ doesn't have any expansion slots, this will only be an option for the RMC-1+.) It’s good to have the clarification, I’ve added it to the FAQ. With regards to this second option, and in light of previous statements about making RMC-1+ expansion that customers want and will buy, wouldn’t this be a good time to query prospective RMC-1+ owners for their interests and priorities with regards to expansion (like the recent poll regarding Atmos channels)? I think it’s safe to say that there is very strong interest in the Subwoofer Module, because it not only allows more subwoofers, but also frees up the height channels enabling (at least) 9.5.6; and the Channel Expansion should also be very popular. But with all of the outboard options (including Emotiva’s), and an internal possibility, is a streamer that only works with the RMC-1+ the next expansion priority that owners want? Maybe it is, but maybe there’s something that would be more desirable, or where there are few or no other choices. Wouldn’t it be a good time to ask?
Probably Wishful Thinking.
I think, all this have been decided when the the design of the + models started to get into a new product.
What I care more would be a final product information. I cannot believe that this is not available since all the parts have been on their way and just wait to be built in the rest of the prepared + models.
Same goes for the promised video with details back in July or so. Almost End of the year and still no release plan, very strange. So it will be Q1/25 or later.
All we discuss here is based on rumours, partial details, speculation and wishful thinking.
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Post by idontknow on Nov 2, 2024 18:00:56 GMT -5
It’s good to have the clarification, I’ve added it to the FAQ. With regards to this second option, and in light of previous statements about making RMC-1+ expansion that customers want and will buy, wouldn’t this be a good time to query prospective RMC-1+ owners for their interests and priorities with regards to expansion (like the recent poll regarding Atmos channels)? I think it’s safe to say that there is very strong interest in the Subwoofer Module, because it not only allows more subwoofers, but also frees up the height channels enabling (at least) 9.5.6; and the Channel Expansion should also be very popular. But with all of the outboard options (including Emotiva’s), and an internal possibility, is a streamer that only works with the RMC-1+ the next expansion priority that owners want? Maybe it is, but maybe there’s something that would be more desirable, or where there are few or no other choices. Wouldn’t it be a good time to ask?
Probably Wishful Thinking.
I think, all this have been decided when the the design of the + models started to get into a new product.
What I care more would be a final product information. I cannot believe that this is not available since all the parts have been on their way and just wait to be built in the rest of the prepared + models.
Same goes for the promised video with details back in July or so. Almost End of the year and still no release plan, very strange. So it will be Q1/25 or later.
All we discuss here is based on rumours, partial details, speculation and wishful thinking.
I agree. I have been involved in hardware and software design and then watched the marketing of it for long enough that I am genuinely baffled by how it seems Emotiva does it. How in the world do you have something vaguely teased for 2-3 years (and therefore assumed to be designing at that point), then told for months and months that all you are waiting for is more boards for assembly...but yet in those same months, unable to announce full specs and details people have been asking (asking because you told us you were building it) for years (even allowing for a few ***). If you really have just been waiting for boards for months, the hardware and it's full specs and capabilities should be very much known. How did you invest in the huge cost of custom design and manufacturing without knowing darn near exactly what you intend to build and sell both hardware and software wise? I know it's not a perfect parallel, but even the tech on good Kickstarter projects have their details ironed out far faster, not only to tout what they want to sell you on, but that's what is called a plan. Well before they tell you they have the final boards and are just waiting for more before they can assemble and ship, they tell you the details of what features you are or are not getting in hardware and software. The "details" still to this day lacking by Emotiva make it hard to believe that they actually thoroughly plan what they are investing in to sell. I would say it's just a case of really bad communication skills and choices (from what otherwise seems like a great bunch of people), but a still buggy current gen RMC and unfulfilled feature set seem to point to a planning and execution problem. A small company, just like a small bunch of nobodies on a Kickstarter ,still have every ability to plan, execute AND communicate. You make good sounding products, but there is so much more to truly good hardware and software than that....even for audio/video equipment. I know a good amount of wealthy people who buy the $20-40k processors that could be sending their money your way. They don't buy them because they want to spend a ton to look cool. They would be very happy to be an Emotiva customer in many cases and be on your side laughing at the expense of those "other" guys while they enjoy their audiophile tastes. But...I fail to convince them because they tend to do their homework. They spend the extra money because it either works better or, for that much money, they get attention and actual answers (mostly) when they want them. They would love buy something that works for less $$$ rather than paying for attention. |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Nov 2, 2024 18:16:53 GMT -5
Any Kickstarter projects for prepros? 😜
Russ
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Post by idontknow on Nov 2, 2024 18:28:31 GMT -5
Any Kickstarter projects for prepros? 😜 Russ Haha, nope. I appreciate the complexities of a modern processor that sounds great, but planning for hardware and it's software are still the same principles. There are much more complex electronics I have been a part of and details are still ironed out and communicated by the time we are making "we just need some more boards to put the thing together" claims. Otherwise, what the heck did we build if we don't even know (or worse are perhaps unwilling to be forthcoming) what it can do now and darn clear plans of what we intend to add to it based on what's technically possible. If we don't ask for and communicate both what we love, and what is frustrating then how can we expect the plus to not just be the current version again? Great, frustrating, sound. |
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Post by chua4780 on Nov 2, 2024 22:12:42 GMT -5
I am a video engineering installer and also an emotiva XMC2 user. I have installed and debugged Trinnov Altitude 32 and Storm Audio ISP Elite 32 Mk2 myself. I hope emotiva can improve the following points
1. Each output channel in the GUI interface can be freely defined, for example, channel 1 can be defined as L or SUB1.
2. The extension modules of emotiva are generally designed for subwoofers. As subwoofer management, a separate interface should be opened in the GUI to uniformly set the EQ delay of each subwoofer connected to the processor, and all subwoofers can be combined into a large subwoofer at the end
3. The new processor needs to support DLBC and ART. ART handles the fusion of subwoofers and various speakers very well between 80Hz-150Hz, and the frequency response curves of speakers with subwoofers processed by ART are very straight
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Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 2, 2024 22:44:23 GMT -5
It’s good to have the clarification, I’ve added it to the FAQ. With regards to this second option, and in light of previous statements about making RMC-1+ expansion that customers want and will buy, wouldn’t this be a good time to query prospective RMC-1+ owners for their interests and priorities with regards to expansion (like the recent poll regarding Atmos channels)? I think it’s safe to say that there is very strong interest in the Subwoofer Module, because it not only allows more subwoofers, but also frees up the height channels enabling (at least) 9.5.6; and the Channel Expansion should also be very popular. But with all of the outboard options (including Emotiva’s), and an internal possibility, is a streamer that only works with the RMC-1+ the next expansion priority that owners want? Maybe it is, but maybe there’s something that would be more desirable, or where there are few or no other choices. Wouldn’t it be a good time to ask? Probably Wishful Thinking.
I think, all this have been decided when the the design of the + models started to get into a new product.
What I care more would be a final product information. I cannot believe that this is not available since all the parts have been on their way and just wait to be built in the rest of the prepared + models.
Same goes for the promised video with details back in July or so. Almost End of the year and still no release plan, very strange. So it will be Q1/25 or later.
All we discuss here is based on rumours, partial details, speculation and wishful thinking.
In regards to the processor, I agree, foundations laid long ago, but the expansion cards? If they were set in stone we’d have had them by now, or they’d have more concrete release information. In regards to the streamer expansion, they’ve probably looked at the DRS-1 and said how can we put this on a card, maybe they’ve worked on a prototype. I really doubt much expansion development has been done beyond the sub and channel boards (which hopefully are well on their way). My point is to try and discourage building something that people aren’t interested in, and encourage something they want, if most people think a streamer should be the ‘5th expansion board’, then so be it, but why not ask? |
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 3, 2024 6:04:26 GMT -5
I am a video engineering installer and also an emotiva XMC2 user. I have installed and debugged Trinnov Altitude 32 and Storm Audio ISP Elite 32 Mk2 myself. I hope emotiva can improve the following points 1. Each output channel in the GUI interface can be freely defined, for example, channel 1 can be defined as L or SUB1. 2. The extension modules of emotiva are generally designed for subwoofers. As subwoofer management, a separate interface should be opened in the GUI to uniformly set the EQ delay of each subwoofer connected to the processor, and all subwoofers can be combined into a large subwoofer at the end 3. The new processor needs to support DLBC and ART. ART handles the fusion of subwoofers and various speakers very well between 80Hz-150Hz, and the frequency response curves of speakers with subwoofers processed by ART are very straight 1. Emotiva is not offering an open output routing matrix. 2. I hope there will be a Subwoofer module. Real information is scarce. It's all talk so far. Eventually? There are 2 current expansion modules. They are both input modules - A phono stage and a balanced XLR analog stage. 3. ART - Ah, err, hmmm.... Nice thought. What will ART do in a system with full range Fronts and Surrounds? I use bass management with only my 2 Top speakers - 80Hz crossover. |
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Post by aswiss on Nov 3, 2024 9:06:16 GMT -5
Probably Wishful Thinking.
I think, all this have been decided when the the design of the + models started to get into a new product.
What I care more would be a final product information. I cannot believe that this is not available since all the parts have been on their way and just wait to be built in the rest of the prepared + models.
Same goes for the promised video with details back in July or so. Almost End of the year and still no release plan, very strange. So it will be Q1/25 or later.
All we discuss here is based on rumours, partial details, speculation and wishful thinking.
In regards to the processor, I agree, foundations laid long ago, but the expansion cards? If they were set in stone we’d have had them by now, or they’d have more concrete release information. In regards to the streamer expansion, they’ve probably looked at the DRS-1 and said how can we put this on a card, maybe they’ve worked on a prototype. I really doubt much expansion development has been done beyond the sub and channel boards (which hopefully are well on their way). My point is to try and discourage building something that people aren’t interested in, and encourage something they want, if most people think a streamer should be the ‘5th expansion board’, then so be it, but why not ask? In the G3P only the balanced IN modules were delivered, right? And know a lot more in addition to the SUB Board is announced, like a Phono Stage.
I don't need any of these things - I'd rather prefer a perfect working processor. More Tools have more influence to the firmware.
I own a very good streamer, a highend DAC and a highend phono stage and all are not connected to the processor.
But I can undertstand Emotiva to implement such things, because competitors do the same.
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Post by aswiss on Nov 3, 2024 9:10:58 GMT -5
I am a video engineering installer and also an emotiva XMC2 user. I have installed and debugged Trinnov Altitude 32 and Storm Audio ISP Elite 32 Mk2 myself. I hope emotiva can improve the following points 1. Each output channel in the GUI interface can be freely defined, for example, channel 1 can be defined as L or SUB1. 2. The extension modules of emotiva are generally designed for subwoofers. As subwoofer management, a separate interface should be opened in the GUI to uniformly set the EQ delay of each subwoofer connected to the processor, and all subwoofers can be combined into a large subwoofer at the end 3. The new processor needs to support DLBC and ART. ART handles the fusion of subwoofers and various speakers very well between 80Hz-150Hz, and the frequency response curves of speakers with subwoofers processed by ART are very straight 1. Emotiva is not offering an open output routing matrix. 2. I hope there will be a Subwoofer module. Real information is scarce. It's all talk so far. Eventually? There are 2 current expansion modules. They are both input modules - A phono stage and a balanced XLR analog stage. 3. ART - Ah, err, hmmm.... Nice thought. What will ART do in a system with full range Fronts and Surrounds? I use bass management with only my 2 Top speakers - 80Hz crossover. For 3. I'm in the same boat. ART ist not THE jack of all trades.
Imagine that not all users have a dedicated cinema room, where the layout can be matched to follow the specifications.
I don't even have a subwoofer to integrate, therefore I do not care about Dirac and its features.
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,857
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Post by LCSeminole on Nov 3, 2024 10:02:32 GMT -5
3. The new processor needs to support DLBC and ART. ART handles the fusion of subwoofers and various speakers very well between 80Hz-150Hz, and the frequency response curves of speakers with subwoofers processed by ART are very straight I get and understand the want/need of DLBC, I’m one of those wanting, more so out of a curiosity, but I’m highly pleased with my Anti-mode 2.0 Dual Core. As for Dirac ART, it’s been an exclusive beta program for StormAudio for over a year if not longer, and now Masimo(ie: Denton/Marantz) has announced they are at least a year out with no set date for release that I know of which points out to me they want no part of a half baked software. So why would Emotiva need to support a half baked software that isn’t even in the AV mainstream world at this point?….not to mention Dirac’s founder having just left for Harman. |
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Post by gunslingerfin on Nov 4, 2024 3:16:50 GMT -5
I agree. I have been involved in hardware and software design and then watched the marketing of it for long enough that I am genuinely baffled by how it seems Emotiva does it. How in the world do you have something vaguely teased for 2-3 years (and therefore assumed to be designing at that point), then told for months and months that all you are waiting for is more boards for assembly...but yet in those same months, unable to announce full specs and details people have been asking... I have worked in the software industry for 15 years and I totally understand the issues they are having. My current job is at a company which makes their own HW and software. Totally different field than Emotiva, but the same basic principles do apply. The question has never been "what could we do with this HW" but the question is always "what kind of feature set can we implement in software with given time". Marketing people would always like to have and advertise more features on the new products but since the bottle neck of the production is the limited amount of software developers (who are competent enough _and_ have the required know-how for the field we operate in), they have to be really careful in what they promise to the customers. I'm quite sure that the good people at Emotiva have known for a long time what kind of "full specs" the HW could support, but it does not make sense to advertise the possible features for customers that much, if it's still uncertain that if the software can support the features at the time of the launch. Why? Because the world is full of people who take every little hint as promise written in stone, and then badmouth the company if even one of the "promised" features is not there. It's much easier (and generally results in happier customers) if the detailed list is fine tuned and honed when the launch approaches, and the company has better understanding about the features that can be implemented for the launch (and what are left for the future SW updates). |
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 4, 2024 10:49:39 GMT -5
I agree. I have been involved in hardware and software design and then watched the marketing of it for long enough that I am genuinely baffled by how it seems Emotiva does it. How in the world do you have something vaguely teased for 2-3 years (and therefore assumed to be designing at that point), then told for months and months that all you are waiting for is more boards for assembly...but yet in those same months, unable to announce full specs and details people have been asking... I have worked in the software industry for 15 years and I totally understand the issues they are having. My current job is at a company which makes their own HW and software. Totally different field than Emotiva, but the same basic principles do apply. The question has never been "what could we do with this HW" but the question is always "what kind of feature set can we implement in software with given time". Marketing people would always like to have and advertise more features on the new products but since the bottle neck of the production is the limited amount of software developers (who are competent enough _and_ have the required know-how for the field we operate in), they have to be really careful in what they promise to the customers. I'm quite sure that the good people at Emotiva have known for a long time what kind of "full specs" the HW could support, but it does not make sense to advertise the possible features for customers that much, if it's still uncertain that if the software can support the features at the time of the launch. Why? Because the world is full of people who take every little hint as promise written in stone, and then badmouth the company if even one of the "promised" features is not there. It's much easier (and generally results in happier customers) if the detailed list is fine tuned and honed when the launch approaches, and the company has better understanding about the features that can be implemented for the launch (and what are left for the future SW updates). Emotiva demonstrated a functioning RMC-1+ at Emofest... A month ago... Jus sayin'  Perhaps the final feature set will change a lot between now and January... February... March....... |
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Post by lavocat on Nov 4, 2024 22:25:58 GMT -5
3. The new processor needs to support DLBC and ART. ART handles the fusion of subwoofers and various speakers very well between 80Hz-150Hz, and the frequency response curves of speakers with subwoofers processed by ART are very straight I get and understand the want/need of DLBC, I’m one of those wanting, more so out of a curiosity, but I’m highly pleased with my Anti-mode 2.0 Dual Core. As for Dirac ART, it’s been an exclusive beta program for StormAudio for over a year if not longer, and now Masimo(ie: Denton/Marantz) has announced they are at least a year out with no set date for release that I know of which points out to me they want no part of a half baked software. So why would Emotiva need to support a half baked software that isn’t even in the AV mainstream world at this point?….not to mention Dirac’s founder having just left for Harman. It’s pretty sure we will not have an Emotiva G4 with ART. Even Marantz hasn’t it. But it have Dirac & DLBC abilities. If the G4 have it, I would be happy… |
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lhracing
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Post by lhracing on Nov 5, 2024 9:41:03 GMT -5
My wish list for the XMC-2+ is pretty short.
Sounds at least as good as my current XMC-2.
Has Dirac with DLBC available (and functional).
But most of all, a stable processor that everything just works every time. No pops/clicks, problem free eARC,
fast input switching and doesn’t require a full power off (rear switch) reboot several times a week to clear a hung
processor.
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Sayer
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Chasing better sound.
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Post by Sayer on Nov 5, 2024 11:59:10 GMT -5
But most of all, a stable processor that everything just works every time. No pops/clicks, problem free eARC, fast input switching and doesn’t require a full power off (rear switch) reboot several times a week to clear a hung processor. Same for me. It's going to cost $2,000 for the upgrade to fix these problems, which is a punch in the gut.  |
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Post by PaulBe on Nov 6, 2024 0:20:29 GMT -5
1. Emotiva is not offering an open output routing matrix. 2. I hope there will be a Subwoofer module. Real information is scarce. It's all talk so far. Eventually? There are 2 current expansion modules. They are both input modules - A phono stage and a balanced XLR analog stage. 3. ART - Ah, err, hmmm.... Nice thought. What will ART do in a system with full range Fronts and Surrounds? I use bass management with only my 2 Top speakers - 80Hz crossover. For 3. I'm in the same boat. ART ist not THE jack of all trades.
Imagine that not all users have a dedicated cinema room, where the layout can be matched to follow the specifications.
I don't even have a subwoofer to integrate, therefore I do not care about Dirac and its features.
We are supposedly 2 months from product delivery. Emotiva needs to tell us what the the G4P IS. The functional RMC-1+ at Emofest should have given us clues as to its expansive features. It didn't. |
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