|
|
Post by lavocat on May 25, 2024 23:34:37 GMT -5
I doubt that the comparison AV10 / AVM90 was (fair) well done. Has the friend done a Dirac calibration with the AV10 ? If not, it’s a nonsense.
For example to compare XMC2+ / RMC2+ to the Marantz AV10, both should have Dirac, and you should do a calibration with both in the same room with the same installation.
Scientifically (if Dirac works, and it does) both results must be very close, except if the hardware have so huge differences that you can hear (or better measure) a noticeable difference. In a blind test of course, to exclude the common and known confirmation bias.
|
|
|
|
Post by sebna on May 26, 2024 3:20:00 GMT -5
I doubt that the comparison AV10 / AVM90 was (fair) well done. Has the friend done a Dirac calibration with the AV10 ? If not, it’s a nonsense. For example to compare XMC2+ / RMC2+ to the Marantz AV10, both should have Dirac, and you should do a calibration with both in the same room with the same installation. Scientifically (if Dirac works, and it does) both results must be very close, except if the hardware have so huge differences that you can hear (or better measure) a noticeable difference. In a blind test of course, to exclude the common and known confirmation bias. I don't mean it in a wrong way. What I will write next is just the logical extension of what you wrote. If you truly believe in what you wrote you should really just buy the cheapest DIRAC enabled AVR and be done with it. After all, with DIRAC being the great equalizer here, they should all sound the same? The bottom line is that he had them side by side in his own room and he did not like the sound of AV10 at all (in comparison) and liked the AVM90 very much. He put money where his mouth was and bought AVM90. He since moved to Trinnov. That is all there is too know, nothing else really matters in that story as it is all personal. Only outcome matters. If you have them side by side you could do it your way. So for example connect bunch of measuring gear to it and test it for 7 days straight without listening it, if that is your thing, to let some numbers decide for you which you like better (I know that is not what you would do I am just hyperbolling for the fun of it). My point is everybody has their own ways, requirements and opinion in the end. It will always be personal in the end. Just take it as it is and put a weight to it according to your own criteria. All that I personally need is two boxes next to each other in my room in my system usually for something like 1x 30minutes of comparetive listening of base hardware sound so pre EQ and another 30 min post EQ (minus time for cable swapping etc., or doing runs of EQ) to know about 90% there is to know about the differences in how they sound. And then another few hours to few weeks to nail down in detail all the SQ details that interest me the most in the sound. Also the longer I need obviously the less and the lesser differences there are, making the comparison from box swapping perspective less important as it basically means it would be a side move, at least, from SQ perfective. But I do side by side comparisons (mostly with my stereo system, so boxes upon boxes) for a very long time and it is a skill that you get better at with time and training as with everything else in life. Just the way I see it. |
|
|
|
Post by sebna on May 26, 2024 3:27:59 GMT -5
Double...
|
|
|
|
Post by sebna on May 26, 2024 3:29:54 GMT -5
Triple..
|
|
|
|
Post by lavocat on May 26, 2024 3:49:42 GMT -5
The “skill” you describes and claim for have a name. Subjectivity. (Very useful for every marketing dpt). But you 💯 % have the right to like it that way.
My father was an engineer and before law university I made a scientific graduation in the college.
I rather like objectivism. And I’m free to love it. However it seems to me clear when I go back to house after a live acoustic concert with Seong-Jin Cho, or Renaud Capuçon (f. e.) that the sound in my living room sounds not very far if not “the same” to me.
So maybe it could be that objectivism should not be always rejected. Maybe it could be the right way to do it.
That’s the reason why I should answer you for 1 point: no you can’t buy the cheapest DAC to do then a “comparison”. You know it and you are not entirely in good faith. You know very well that you can make a useful comparison only with 2 similar (in terms of potential) preamp. Which both have enough qualities and potential to allow Dirac to get the final touch. Dirac can’t compensate a lack of quality. It corrects room defaults. That’s all. And that’s amazing. Maybe more with Dirac ART.
|
|
|
|
Post by aliensound on May 26, 2024 10:32:38 GMT -5
Well if Dirac SQ are the only concern then the Marantz AV10 is the only viable comparison to the XMC-2(+) because they both have Dirac. That is not the original question I asked however, it was which processor other than the RMC1/XMC-2(is there one) has fewer issues/bugs and sounds about the same or better. I would prefer spending less than $8k
as well but willing to consider Storm audio or Trinnov.
Have also found that the AV10 can be set to not have the Marantz sound or not flat response using the other profile which is flat.
|
|
|
|
Post by sebna on May 26, 2024 10:42:40 GMT -5
Well if Dirac SQ are the only concern then the Marantz AV10 is the only viable comparison to the XMC-2(+) because they both have Dirac. That is not the original question I asked however, it was which processor other than the RMC1/XMC-2(is there one) has fewer issues/bugs and sounds about the same or better. I would prefer spending less than $8k as well but willing to consider Storm audio or Trinnov. Have also found that the AV10 can be set to not have the Marantz sound or not flat response using the other profile which is flat. IMHO, judging by my own research it is only AVM90 and Storm that meet the criteria. Although it is questionable if and by how much better sounding AVM90 is. It would be probably more of a sideways move to get stable platform. Storm is supposedly better sounding and ultra stable for a dedicated HT (I might be getting one so I should be able to comment on SQ sooner or later). I however assume it is on the same level SQ wise as RMC. I would be getting it for stability reasons. If it sounds better that would be welcomed bonus. Trinnov is buggy and notoriously difficult to make sound good without getting PhD in acoustics manipulation first  And it is a PC. So no thank you. |
|
ttocs
Global Moderator 
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,168
|
Post by ttocs on May 26, 2024 11:06:31 GMT -5
Trinnov is buggy and notoriously difficult to make sound good without getting PhD in acoustics manipulation first ;) Trinnov is great for HT if you hire a pro to setup. But it's no secret that it's not aimed at 2 channel usage. And yes, it's buggy. |
|
|
|
Post by sebna on May 26, 2024 12:54:35 GMT -5
Trinnov is buggy and notoriously difficult to make sound good without getting PhD in acoustics manipulation first Trinnov is great for HT if you hire a pro to setup. But it's no secret that it's not aimed at 2 channel usage. And yes, it's buggy. Yes, exactly my point. And why I am looking at Storm instead.
I would not use any of HT processors for stereo listening (Meitner MA-1 is pretty hard to beat for stereo by HT gear). All my comments refer to HT only use cases.
|
|
|
|
Post by lavocat on May 26, 2024 14:36:43 GMT -5
The Storm have an huge advantage: you can buy the Dirac ART, which seems to be really state of the art…
|
|
|
|
Post by sebna on May 26, 2024 14:58:25 GMT -5
The Storm have an huge advantage: you can buy the Dirac ART, which seems to be really state of the art… You don't have to it is included in the price (it better be).
Also HTP-1 have ART in alpha FW working, which is not yet available to public.
|
|
|
|
Post by domimag on May 28, 2024 4:54:33 GMT -5
Hello
I would like to assign an input button on the remote (for example No. 7) to the stereo XLR analog input, just for listening to music, without television? How I programm it on the XMC-2?
Thanks in advance.
|
|
|
|
Post by PaulBe on May 28, 2024 6:00:03 GMT -5
Hello I would like to assign an input button on the remote (for example No. 7) to the stereo XLR analog input, just for listening to music, without television? How I programm it on the XMC-2? Thanks in advance. Menu - Setup - Inputs - pick a source Input you want to program - Button - assign an input number to the Button. Pick other parameters for your selected source Input. |
|
|
|
Post by domimag on May 29, 2024 13:00:03 GMT -5
Ok. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by sebna on May 30, 2024 17:20:38 GMT -5
Bought Storm.
But I think that XMC-2 is too good to let it go, so I will most likely keep it in other system to see what "+" would bring to the table.
It will be few weeks before I have my Storm here, so nothing to comment yet on the SQ differences if any.
|
|
|
|
Post by aliensound on May 30, 2024 17:45:19 GMT -5
Please do I at least would be really like to know all about not just the SQ but the experience as a whole. Any issues, bugs, odd setup things too. One example of what I'm refer to is how long the Storm takes to lock on to the codec like Dolby digital or DTS when you change the source or input.
Also do tell which model you got too if that's not too much to ask.
|
|
|
|
Post by lavocat on May 30, 2024 18:15:12 GMT -5
Bought Storm. But I think that XMC-2 is too good to let it go, so I will most likely keep it in other system to see what "+" would bring to the table. It will be few weeks before I have my Storm here, so nothing to comment yet on the SQ differences if any. Nice! Which model? |
|
|
|
Post by sebna on May 31, 2024 10:15:03 GMT -5
Please do I at least would be really like to know all about not just the SQ but the experience as a whole. Any issues, bugs, odd setup things too. One example of what I'm refer to is how long the Storm takes to lock on to the codec like Dolby digital or DTS when you change the source or input. Also do tell which model you got too if that's not too much to ask. No problem, I will be happy to report on the whole experience.
I went with Core 16, so their fixed channel model which is not modular other than HDMI board which can be upgraded to HDMI 2.1a or future standards as they go forward.
My preference was to go with Elite model (modular and up to 32ch) but I got a good deal on less than a year old ex-demo, which comes with full 5yr warranty remote setup and ART calibration (which is standard for Storm anyway) so I went with it.
I currently don't even need 16ch (as I run 5.4.4 so 13ch) but I might go 7.5.4 (16ch) (I could add either UNF or HB for tactile) one day so 16ch would be about perfect. 20ch would be ideal to allow for any growth I can think of in my room but oh well, one cannot have everything.
The thing is the speakers I use are quite rare audiophile hifi speakers (Zingali Home Monitors 2.10+) and are hard to get and quite expensive with MRSP at around 12k euro for + model for a pair and around 4-7k 2d hand when they show up (and it is not that often and even more difficult to get them in dark colour patterns as they came in variety of colours / wood selection), which makes it much easier to stick with lower channel count  . At the same time the project a very wide soundstage and image very well so the two at the back do better job than 4 other speakers I had there before (7.2.4 config I had before).
They sound marvellous for music and HT, with horn loaded compression drivers and 2x 10" woofers.
|
|
|
|
Post by sebna on Jun 1, 2024 5:22:55 GMT -5
Extra info on the side.
I could have gotten Trinnov Attitude 16 for less than I paid for Core 16 but had zero interest in it due to stability issues and it being a PC vs dedicated hardware design and FPGA in Storm.
|
|
|
|
Post by sebna on Jun 1, 2024 6:07:36 GMT -5
So one more piece of information . The Trinnov Alt 16 I could have bought instead of Core 16 was a trade-in by a user who switched to Storm as he was fed up with Trinnov quirks. To be completely honest, bigger part of those who switch from Trinnov to Storm due to annoyances of Trinnov instability seem to be those who use it in their living rooms, where families are involved and longer codecs switching (and other situations) play bigger role etc. (but not only, I know people who switched while having T in a dedicated space). Trinnov would be probably more than liveable with for me in my dedicated HT room but I just choose not to live with bugs especially at that price point and when I have a better (in this regard) alternative available. And then on top, as you all know by now I also don't agree with design philosophy of it being a PC underneath. Made the same choice before, went Lumagen (FPGA) rather than Envy (PC) and it was a very good choice  |
|
. At the same time the project a very wide soundstage and image very well so the two at the back do better job than 4 other speakers I had there before (7.2.4 config I had before). 
