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Post by Jean Genie on Dec 25, 2022 11:46:00 GMT -5
... on, say, a BAS X-5.
Could I have a pair of 4 ohm Magneplanars in front and an 8ohm Airmotiv B1+ Pair as surrounds, or is that verboten?
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 25, 2022 13:51:29 GMT -5
Depends - Are you driving them from the same power amplifier? If so, more power will flow to the speakers with the lower impedance. This doesn't necessarily mean that the lower impedance speakers will SOUND louder. That gets into the speaker relative sensitivities.
If you're using room correction, it won't matter. Your room correction will automatically mix and match the speaker sensitivities.
If you're using a stereo preamp and amp (looks like you are from your signature), then the easiest thing to do is to get some "L-Pads" off Amazon and insert them between the power amp output and the surround speakers. The L-Pads have a convenient dial that you can turn down to match the surround levels to the main speakers while keeping the impedance (as seen by your amplifier) constant.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Dec 25, 2022 14:49:46 GMT -5
You say the B1+ will be “surrounds” which to me implies you’re using a surround sound processor? If that’s the case, then the processor will allow you to set the levels of each speaker individually, and any difference in impedance or sensitivity between speaker types will be compensated for. If it’s the USP-1 you’re using, then the sensitivity of the speakers (more than the impedance) will come into play.
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Post by vcautokid on Dec 26, 2022 9:48:09 GMT -5
You're fine. Hook them up and enjoy.
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Post by Jean Genie on Dec 26, 2022 10:43:00 GMT -5
Thanks for your replies.
I just saw the great price of the B1+ and wondered if I could pair them with the maggies, if I also bought a BAS-X5. I don't know if the BAS-X5 has room correction.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 26, 2022 11:11:53 GMT -5
Thanks for your replies. I just saw the great price of the B1+ and wondered if I could pair them with the maggies, if I also bought a BAS-X5. I don't know if the BAS-X5 has room correction. BAS-X5 is an amplifier so no, it does not have room correction, but it will not care what impedance speakers you use (unless your Magneplaners drop too low, that is.) The comment about room correction has to do with your preamp processor. What are you using for this function? |
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Post by Jean Genie on Dec 26, 2022 11:37:16 GMT -5
Thanks for your replies. I just saw the great price of the B1+ and wondered if I could pair them with the maggies, if I also bought a BAS-X5. I don't know if the BAS-X5 has room correction. BAS-X5 is an amplifier so no, it does not have room correction, but it will not care what impedance speakers you use (unless your Magneplaners drop too low, that is.) The comment about room correction has to do with your preamp processor. What are you using for this function? Ahh, thanks D. Looks like I would also need a processor. I guess I can use the Oppo as the processor, no? It has up to 7.1 capability. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 26, 2022 11:57:20 GMT -5
BAS-X5 is an amplifier so no, it does not have room correction, but it will not care what impedance speakers you use (unless your Magneplaners drop too low, that is.) The comment about room correction has to do with your preamp processor. What are you using for this function? Ahh, thanks D. Looks like I would also need a processor. I guess I can use the Oppo as the processor, no? It has up to 7.1 capability. Not really, no. The Oppo would be an input or source. You need a preamp or a processor for HT surround. emotiva.com/collections/processors |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Dec 26, 2022 13:13:56 GMT -5
I guess I can use the Oppo as the processor, no? It has up to 7.1 capability. While it's " possible" to use an OPPO as a multi channel preamp, and it " can" drive amplifiers (as said by OPPO and in my limited testing), it's very limited in scope. The output voltage is " enough" for a lot of amps, but nothing is guaranteed here as this usage is not a primary design goal. The OPPO players can decode the channels and provide Level adjustment. Correction isn't possible. I don't recall if there is any EQ, but if there is, it would be very limited compared to a processor. They have several inputs, but changing inputs is very clumsy. |
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Post by leonski on Jan 8, 2023 15:02:47 GMT -5
In GENERAL? Magnepans are of very low sensitivity. That means POWER. IF you play louder or go to 11.......it gets worse!
Your 1.7s (even the 'i' version) require more than average amounts of power. Better watts ARE better.
And to top it off? Magnepan measures sensitivity at ONE fruequency....usually 500hz and with what amounts to 2 watts at the 4 ohm rating.
Bottom line is that while I suspect Magnepan publishes honest numbers? They mean you may need even more power than you suspect.
I ran my MG-1 (a 70s Magnepan) with 80 @4ohm rating Kenwood! And later bought a Carver Cube of over 200 4ohm watts......NICE change!
IMO?
Sit down with a sheet off paper and write your goals. Surround Sound? 5.1? Maggies in front...(might need a Magnepan CENTER to match)
and so on. Oppo is a good source component. But generally not thought of as a PREamp or a PROCESSOR.....(different animals)
If you mull this over, with the OTHER (and good) answers, come back with the next level questions. DY summed it up nicely, 2 posts ago......
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Post by Jean Genie on Jan 9, 2023 9:08:12 GMT -5
In GENERAL? Magnepans are of very low sensitivity. That means POWER. IF you play louder or go to 11.......it gets worse! Your 1.7s (even the 'i' version) require more than average amounts of power. Better watts ARE better. And to top it off? Magnepan measures sensitivity at ONE fruequency....usually 500hz and with what amounts to 2 watts at the 4 ohm rating. Bottom line is that while I suspect Magnepan publishes honest numbers? They mean you may need even more power than you suspect. I ran my MG-1 (a 70s Magnepan) with 80 @4ohm rating Kenwood! And later bought a Carver Cube of over 200 4ohm watts......NICE change! IMO? Sit down with a sheet off paper and write your goals. Surround Sound? 5.1? Maggies in front...(might need a Magnepan CENTER to match) and so on. Oppo is a good source component. But generally not thought of as a PREamp or a PROCESSOR.....(different animals) If you mull this over, with the OTHER (and good) answers, come back with the next level questions. DY summed it up nicely, 2 posts ago...... Thanks again everyone. After serious mulling, the realization that I'm quite satisfied with the quo of my status, combined with financial calculations, I've decided to keep things exactly as they are. My main concern for even posing the question was the age of the components in the system and future considerations but, as they say, "If it ain't broke...".🎼🙉 |
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 9, 2023 10:10:28 GMT -5
Just a few things to summarize if I may…… At the end of the day, if you’re going to play music at spirited levels, and you want to protect the loudspeaker, Magnepan or anything else for that matter and the amplifier… Always make sure the amplifier has more than enough power to deal with the load. The more power you have the less critical, the ohm factor becomes. …… And if you are in a situation, where you’re going to be combining multiple loudspeakers on the same channel, it’s important to understand the difference between parallel wiring versus series, the latter of which is easier on the systems when combining them on one channel.
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Post by leonski on Jan 9, 2023 14:15:11 GMT -5
Decades ago, I built a sort of Dynaquad system. This was at the very DAWN of Four Channel.....SQ or QS Matrix.....That sort of thing.
I used a PAIR of speakers as the back channel. Wired in series from PLUS to PLUS on an amplifier.....You basically had 2 wiring options.
ONLY DO THIS WITH A COMMON GROUND AMP....or you will have electrical problems!
You could wire them (+--+) OR (+-+-) I played with both......
FREAKY real effect. In live music with lots of phase / ambience? You were IN THE MIDDLE of the audience. Studio stuff which
lacked those cues was just OK......
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jan 9, 2023 15:48:44 GMT -5
With Dynaquad the way the speakers are connected is quite interesting... They're not just in series and they are specifically supposed to be wired: - with the (+) terminal on each speaker wired to the (+) speaker output terminal on its respective channel - with the (-) terminals on the two speakers connected together The "Dynaquad connection" then connects the common (-) terminals on the speakers to the amplifier's (-) output through a 10 Ohm power resistor. (It's assumed that the amplifier's (-) output is grounded.) If you do the math you end up with: - the Left Surround speaker getting 2/3(L) - 1/3(R) - the Right Surround speaker getting 2/3(R) - 1/3(L) (Each channel has a bit of the INVERTED signal from the other channel added to it.) And, yes, with some content, especially live concert recordings, it was surprisingly effective. With the separate "Quadapter box"... - they split the 10 Ohm ground resistor to a pair of paralleled 20 Ohm resistors going to the grounds of each channel (which allowed it to work with some amps that weren't fully common grounded.) - they added a bit fat triple power rheostat that could be used to reduce the rear levels while maintaining the mix ratio You can build a line level box that does the same thing with a few op-amps and a few resistors. (At one point there were even a few companies selling little black boxes that did that...) And, if you want to be really creative, you can substitute a third "rear center SPEAKER" for the resistor between the speaker's (-) terminals and the amplifier's ground. Decades ago, I built a sort of Dynaquad system. This was at the very DAWN of Four Channel.....SQ or QS Matrix.....That sort of thing. I used a PAIR of speakers as the back channel. Wired in series from PLUS to PLUS on an amplifier.....You basically had 2 wiring options. ONLY DO THIS WITH A COMMON GROUND AMP....or you will have electrical problems! You could wire them (+--+) OR (+-+-) I played with both...... FREAKY real effect. In live music with lots of phase / ambience? You were IN THE MIDDLE of the audience. Studio stuff which lacked those cues was just OK...... |
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Post by leonski on Jan 10, 2023 14:18:55 GMT -5
When I did my 'kludge' of the Dyna system? I just used an existing COMMON GROUND power amp and wired speakers from + to + and in either of 2 ways.......
I used the VC on the amp to control rear levels.
Speakers in FRONT were my brothers JBL 4311 and I used my RSL 3600s in the rear. Excellent match....
The Dynabox adapter? Lots of wiring you didn't need....None of this 1/3 / 2/3 stuff....You got the difference between L + R pretty much....
If at any given instant? L speaker wass +3 volts? And R speaker was +1 volt? 'difference was 2 volts THRU the back channel speakers....
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Post by ausman on Jan 10, 2023 21:43:38 GMT -5
i typically base outputn at 4ohms because lower your ohms higher your wattage i would err on the side of caution of using 3, 2 and 1ohms capable speakers on emotiva products because unlike the rest of the industry Emo doesn't list thier products with the 3, 2 & 1 ohms loads
power amp is going to be better than what is off the amp section of an avr
If your speaker is capable of 3 ohms, i would recommend using xpa amps for your main fronts and surrounds for the stuff typically used for heights and wides i would likely go basx though i do wish the basx came with xlr's
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Post by leonski on Jan 11, 2023 16:11:14 GMT -5
i typically base outputn at 4ohms because lower your ohms higher your wattage i would err on the side of caution of using 3, 2 and 1ohms capable speakers on emotiva products because unlike the rest of the industry Emo doesn't list thier products with the 3, 2 & 1 ohms loads power amp is going to be better than what is off the amp section of an avr If your speaker is capable of 3 ohms, i would recommend using xpa amps for your main fronts and surrounds for the stuff typically used for heights and wides i would likely go basx though i do wish the basx came with xlr's Sort of ......depends...... If the speaker has a 'dip' to 3 ohms or maybe as low as 2.5? But is otherwise 4ohms UP .....You maybe OK...... And even THIS depends. If you are a head-banger? Or running low sensitivity speakers at higher levels? NOPE! But in general? You'll do well with an amp stable to lower impedances... The now ancient Apogee Scintilla speaker was a NOTORIOUS amp killer with a 1 ohm load. Some stereo buddies of mine who were extensively into DIY? Destroyed an amp they'd built when it went 'ultrasonic' upon turnon into some wacky load. I don't know what they were up to! If the speaker is 4ohms and below for MOST of it's measures? By all means.....get a better amp at those impedances. My Magnepans are 4ohm. Yet I do NOT look first at an amps 4ohm power. Why? Rule of thumb with these panels is that power should DOUBLE from 8ohms to 4ohms. FEW do so, but that's the myth and I'm sticking to it! Here's a chart from a Thiel CS2.4 speaker as measured by Stereophile. www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs24-loudspeaker-measurementscheck out the impedance part and you'll see why they made some of the comments in the review |
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Post by ausman on Jan 13, 2023 5:11:18 GMT -5
i own 10 jensen speakers listed 6/3 ohms rating so quite the plausibility to drop 2-1 ohms.. don't get me wrong i love emo gear for its price however with no actual listing for power for 3, 2 & 1 ohms loads would you risk an amp when you know your speaker do not conform to typical 8-4 ohms loads?  ? when are considering a power amp slightly better than the amp section in an avr you answer you own question whether waste money basx then upgrade to xpa later or save your cash and buy the xpa and be done with it.. you will likelybclip with a basx amp and not with the xpa. for me at the moment I would go basx 7 and 4 by 3 sets as that give me options to 11.2 on a denon and 2 sony avr's i own though if i had the space and money to but the second sounnd board would be the only way ro replicate both the sony and yamaha 90's 20+ channel theater setup from Japan.. |
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Post by leonski on Jan 15, 2023 19:58:14 GMT -5
If you are saying 'better watts are better'? I'd agree. But I wouldn't search for them with an AVR of any stripe.... If the Jensen 6/3 rating is 'nominal' and 'minimum' than I'd go with that. Any (or most, anyway) amps with a 4 ohm rating should be FINE with an occasional dip to 3 ohms..... Beyond EMO a whole world of amps exists. From ridiculous / stratospheric prices and claims to more modest levels which provide good products of lasting value. I see a huge listing of Jensen guitar replacement drivers, but nothing full-range for your home? Can you list a model number? And BTW? FEW if ANY speakers go to anywhere near 1 ohm. You'd hear about it! And have a list (short) of amps which could handle such a load. forum.audiogon.com/discussions/apogee-scintilla-power |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jan 16, 2023 13:08:23 GMT -5
As a VERY broad generalization a "well behaved" speaker should not go much below about 75% of rated impedance... (This is not to say that a slight dip below those values is going to be problematic... it probably won't.) So most "4 Ohm speakers" won't dip significantly below 3 Ohms... And most "8 Ohm speakers" won't dip significantly below 6 Ohms... Therefore pretty well any decent amplifier should have no problem with those values. There is also the question of where a dip occurs and how wide it is... And whether it occurs over a range of frequencies where a lot of power is normally required... (A sort of exception here is certain electrostatic panels which dip very low at very high frequencies... which can pose stability issues... even though there is very little signal at 20 kHz.) If you are saying 'better watts are better'? I'd agree. But I wouldn't search for them with an AVR of any stripe.... If the Jensen 6/3 rating is 'nominal' and 'minimum' than I'd go with that. Any (or most, anyway) amps with a 4 ohm rating should be FINE with an occasional dip to 3 ohms..... Beyond EMO a whole world of amps exists. From ridiculous / stratospheric prices and claims to more modest levels which provide good products of lasting value. I see a huge listing of Jensen guitar replacement drivers, but nothing full-range for your home? Can you list a model number? And BTW? FEW if ANY speakers go to anywhere near 1 ohm. You'd hear about it! And have a list (short) of amps which could handle such a load. forum.audiogon.com/discussions/apogee-scintilla-power |
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