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Post by selind40 on Mar 24, 2023 13:08:32 GMT -5
Huh? What’d you just say, Boom? Speak 🗣️ up………
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Post by marcl on Mar 24, 2023 13:14:38 GMT -5
We should listen to music at the volume that the artist intended! Not at all feasible - an orchestra can play painfully loudly in a concert hall - how much louder would that be in a living room? A rock band can play deafeningly loudly on a performance stage - how much louder would that be in your living room? Playback level can never be “the volume that the artist intended,” because that volume was situational to start with. Instead, playback volume must also be situational. You can’t expect realistic rock levels from home speakers. The “proper playback volume” must take into account the artist’s original intent, but also the limitations of the playback venue, the playback system, and the preservation of the listener’s hearing. I was joking  That phrase "what the artist intended" cracks me up because ultimately it's what the Producer and record company made them do. But it is a good point in a number of ways. First, "reference level" is commonly specified as 85db ... that's the level an engineer would play music or a movie sound track while mixing. If you play back at that level in your room, then you hear what he heard and mixed to. I believe this would mean Fletcher-Munson sort of compensation was essentially already accounted for in the mix. If you listen lower than 85db, you may need some proportional F-M style bass boost. But .... I've listened to some AES and other discussions about levels and mixing - particularly for Atmos - and it's said that many engineers will mix at more like 75 ... then maybe play back at 85 for demos for others. Yes, live bands can be painful. We won't even go to Newport "JAZZ" Festival anymore due to the high levels and bass boosted +10db below 100Hz. But ... I have measured the SPL levels for live music a few times. 27 piece chamber orchestra with piano soloist from row 5 in a 600 seat room ... low levels in the low 50's, average low 80's ... piano peaked at 95 a couple times. 100 piece orchestra in the 2500 seat room got up to 95db a few times. I find I normally listen to music in my room - focused listening - 75-80db .... allowing peaks to 85. That's uncompressed classical and jazz. It's harder to judge with Atmos because the wider dynamic range, but it doesn't peak over 85 I'm sure. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Mar 24, 2023 15:27:01 GMT -5
Do you want what you hear in your living room to sound like what you hear in the concert hall? Or do you want it to sound like what it would sound like if the orchestra was playing in your living room? Or do you want it to sound like what the performers, and the recording engineer, "wanted home listeners to hear when they listened in their living rooms"? Or how about "what the mixing engineer actually heard at his or her console"? Or maybe, rather than what it sounds like in your living room, you want to hear what it would sound like in some theoretical "acoustically ideal living room". Those are all going to be different... and maybe even very different... and they're all "equally right"... depending on how you feel about it. And, just to make life more interesting, remember that, thanks to "the perceptual loudness curve", pretty much everything else changes depending on the listening level you choose. (And, yes, it would be interesting to calculate the loudness curves at "the intended listening level" and "the actual listening level" and then adjust for the difference between them. But then you must also account for the fact that most of us have learned to "automatically compensate for the loudness curve to some degree". (We expect to hear less bass and less high frequencies when the music is quieter and have come to accept it as normal... and so mentally compensate for it... and may not notice it.) (Much like how we humans are virtually incapable of telling the difference between "warm white" and "cold white" in many settings... because our brains "do an automatic white balance correction" much as our cameras do.) We should listen to music at the volume that the artist intended! Not at all feasible - an orchestra can play painfully loudly in a concert hall - how much louder would that be in a living room? A rock band can play deafeningly loudly on a performance stage - how much louder would that be in your living room? Playback level can never be “the volume that the artist intended,” because that volume was situational to start with. Instead, playback volume must also be situational. You can’t expect realistic rock levels from home speakers. The “proper playback volume” must take into account the artist’s original intent, but also the limitations of the playback venue, the playback system, and the preservation of the listener’s hearing. |
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Post by brutiarti on Mar 24, 2023 17:02:54 GMT -5
Do you want what you hear in your living room to sound like what you hear in the concert hall? Or do you want it to sound like what it would sound like if the orchestra was playing in your living room? Or do you want it to sound like what the performers, and the recording engineer, "wanted home listeners to hear when they listened in their living rooms"? Or how about "what the mixing engineer actually heard at his or her console"? Or maybe, rather than what it sounds like in your living room, you want to hear what it would sound like in some theoretical "acoustically ideal living room". Those are all going to be different... and maybe even very different... and they're all "equally right"... depending on how you feel about it. And, just to make life more interesting, remember that, thanks to "the perceptual loudness curve", pretty much everything else changes depending on the listening level you choose. (And, yes, it would be interesting to calculate the loudness curves at "the intended listening level" and "the actual listening level" and then adjust for the difference between them. But then you must also account for the fact that most of us have learned to "automatically compensate for the loudness curve to some degree". (We expect to hear less bass and less high frequencies when the music is quieter and have come to accept it as normal... and so mentally compensate for it... and may not notice it.) (Much like how we humans are virtually incapable of telling the difference between "warm white" and "cold white" in many settings... because our brains "do an automatic white balance correction" much as our cameras do.) Not at all feasible - an orchestra can play painfully loudly in a concert hall - how much louder would that be in a living room? A rock band can play deafeningly loudly on a performance stage - how much louder would that be in your living room? Playback level can never be “the volume that the artist intended,” because that volume was situational to start with. Instead, playback volume must also be situational. You can’t expect realistic rock levels from home speakers. The “proper playback volume” must take into account the artist’s original intent, but also the limitations of the playback venue, the playback system, and the preservation of the listener’s hearing. Well, with live bands without microphones and consoles we will only hear the loudest instruments. Is that what people refer when they want their system to sound like the band is playing in their living room?? Or they mean that they want to hear the equipment of the concert sound engineer?? 🤣🤣🤣 |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Apr 13, 2023 9:46:38 GMT -5
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 13, 2023 14:35:32 GMT -5
Will the upcoming Emotiva DAC have an asynchronous, buffered input on its SPDIF TOSLINK input?
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Post by brutiarti on Apr 13, 2023 15:28:31 GMT -5
Will the upcoming Emotiva DAC have an asynchronous, buffered input on its SPDIF TOSLINK input? I assume that we will hear/see something at axpona, right Keith? |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,255
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Post by KeithL on Apr 14, 2023 13:36:31 GMT -5
We will be previewing our new DAC at Axpona. (I'm pretty sure you'll get to see it... but nothing will be playing at Axpona.) It is officially called the XDA-3. And I'll be unveiling a thread for it, where we'll release all the details, early next week. And... for those of you who are paying attention here... We're using the new ESS Sabre ES9038Q2M DAC chip this time around... which includes their Time Doman Jitter Eliminator... That's basically a proprietary type of re-clocking mechanism, which works something like an ASRC, and eliminates jitter for ALL incoming digital signals. (The term "asynchronous" is really only appropriate for asynch USB inputs.) And, in case you start wondering, we did this the right way... So it sounds really good, and has none of the harshness that you hear on some DACs that use Sabre chips... Will the upcoming Emotiva DAC have an asynchronous, buffered input on its SPDIF TOSLINK input? I assume that we will hear/see something at axpona, right Keith? |
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Post by geebo on Apr 14, 2023 22:03:25 GMT -5
The new E-ADX  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 15, 2023 5:03:07 GMT -5
Thanks geebo! Just what I needed - I particularly like the balanced analog inputs! Now KeithL, when can we order and at what price? And another question - when will we see an Emotiva STREAMER? |
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Post by brutiarti on Apr 15, 2023 8:16:47 GMT -5
Question for Keith, are the analog inputs pure analog or use an ADC?
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Post by audiobill on Apr 15, 2023 8:19:10 GMT -5
Glad to see that KeithL has overcome his aversion to Sabre dacs.
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Lsc
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 3,434
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Post by Lsc on Apr 15, 2023 11:52:25 GMT -5
The no demo was a bummer but I’m glad they were there at Axpona. Really enjoyed catching up with Lonnie and Damon - he helped load the XPR5 I bought way back when in Naperville Emofest on the road.
I also got a new Emotiva shirt which was cool because I wear it once a week (it’s in my wfh shirt rotation) thank you!!! Unfortunately I didn’t win the raffle like last time but that’s ok with my luck lol.
I’m not sure how this DAC would match up with my SMSL SU9 pro that sounds as good as Denafrips terminator but I’ll be beyond my return window which is unfortunate.
Have a great rest of the weekend Emotiva crew!
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,846
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Post by LCSeminole on Apr 15, 2023 14:51:07 GMT -5
Question for Keith, are the analog inputs pure analog or use an ADC? Pure analog, what goes in is untouched. |
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Post by audiobill on Apr 15, 2023 16:18:39 GMT -5
No ic opamps in analog signal path or digital output stage?
If so, which opamps and/ or caps are used?
Are rca and xlr connectors gold plated? From the pic, they look like tin,,,
KeithL says something about Emo’s superior implementation of the Sabre dac. What specifically does that mean?
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Post by geebo on Apr 15, 2023 20:13:22 GMT -5
And the new XDA-3...  |
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Post by brutiarti on Apr 15, 2023 22:12:25 GMT -5
No volume knob?
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,255
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Post by KeithL on Apr 17, 2023 11:37:04 GMT -5
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That phrase "what the artist intended" cracks me up because ultimately it's what the Producer and record company made them do. But it is a good point in a number of ways.
