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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 2, 2023 10:57:19 GMT -5
Due soon - Emotiva's replacement for their classic Stealth DC-1 DAC.
What it won't have:
MQA (Emotiva just never boarded that particular train)
Portability (it's a "home stereo DAC")
Any color rather than black with blue lighting (well duh!)
What it should have:
Unbalanced AND balanced analog outputs
Support for more file formats, bit depths, and sampling speeds
Roon RAAT Ethernet support
At least one analog input that bypasses the digital sections
A reasonable price
So let the speculation begin:
Release date?
Features?
DAC chip brand?
Price?
Me? I'll take Colonel Mustard in the Dining Room with a lead pipe!
Boomzilla
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Post by routlaw on Feb 2, 2023 14:20:42 GMT -5
Got tired of waiting for it so bought the newly released Gustard A26 DAC. It’s everything I could have imagined and more and while it does include MQA and Roon via ethernet, both of which I don't give a rats behind about but it covers most of your bases and more. One thing I particularly like about the Gustard A26 is the ability to choose PCM filters, six of them. There is more to this than most people think IMHO. What I find is no one single filter provides the best sound for all recordings but they are so easy to change its a non event. Menu system on this DAC is great and man does it sound awesome.
I don't get the point of needing an analog input with your selections though. Seems redundant if you already have a decent pre-amp. I'm sure the Emotiva DAC once and when it ever gets released will be less expensive than the A26 however. I seriously doubt it will perform as well, but am willing to be proven wrong.
Thanks
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 2, 2023 14:31:13 GMT -5
Don't bother to speculate too much just yet... We're going to start releasing some actual information next week...  Due soon - Emotiva's replacement for their classic Stealth DC-1 DAC. What it won't have: MQA (Emotiva just never boarded that particular train)
Portability (it's a "home stereo DAC")
Any color rather than black with blue lighting (well duh!)What it should have: Unbalanced AND balanced analog outputs
Support for more file formats, bit depths, and sampling speeds
Roon RAAT Ethernet support
At least one analog input that bypasses the digital sections
A reasonable priceSo let the speculation begin: Release date? Features? DAC chip brand? Price? Me? I'll take Colonel Mustard in the Dining Room with a lead pipe! Boomzilla |
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Post by mgbpuff on Feb 2, 2023 14:31:18 GMT -5
I don't buy any DAC without MQA support.
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Post by Lsc on Feb 2, 2023 14:59:29 GMT -5
Got tired of waiting for it so bought the newly released Gustard A26 DAC. It’s everything I could have imagined and more and while it does include MQA and Roon via ethernet, both of which I don't give a rats behind about but it covers most of your bases and more. One thing I particularly like about the Gustard A26 is the ability to choose PCM filters, six of them. There is more to this than most people think IMHO. What I find is no one single filter provides the best sound for all recordings but they are so easy to change its a non event. Menu system on this DAC is great and man does it sound awesome. I don't get the point of needing an analog input with your selections though. Seems redundant if you already have a decent pre-amp. I'm sure the Emotiva DAC once and when it ever gets released will be less expensive than the A26 however. I seriously doubt it will perform as well, but am willing to be proven wrong. Thanks I just bought a SMSL D400ES as Amazon had same day delivery yesterday. Looks like the A26 is a great option if I want to return mine and go up a level. I think this ESS DAC is great but it doesn’t have the “velvet sound”. Also in my case if I wait 20-30 days I can get another model within SMSL with the same specs for $250 less. Weird that so many models within SMSL seem to be the same under the cover. I’m still within my return window so I’ll see what emotiva has as well. I’m a “discerning” listener on a budget so it needs to be pretty good 😊. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 2, 2023 15:17:56 GMT -5
...One thing I particularly like about the Gustard A26 is the ability to choose PCM filters, six of them. There is more to this than most people think IMHO. What I find is no one single filter provides the best sound for all recordings but they are so easy to change its a non event... Yep - low-pass filters DO matter! ...I don't get the point of needing an analog input with your selections though. Seems redundant if you already have a decent pre-amp... My Blu-Ray player has analog outputs only, and I don't use a preamplifier if I can avoid it. My current Emotiva Stealth DC-1 has an analog input and allows me to use the DAC as a preamp. I have preamplifiers, but my experience is that I (usually) get better sound without one in the signal path. |
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Post by routlaw on Feb 2, 2023 16:04:09 GMT -5
...I don't get the point of needing an analog input with your selections though. Seems redundant if you already have a decent pre-amp... My Blu-Ray player has analog outputs only, and I don't use a preamplifier if I can avoid it. My current Emotiva Stealth DC-1 has an analog input and allows me to use the DAC as a preamp. I have preamplifiers, but my experience is that I (usually) get better sound without one in the signal path. Interesting as most reviewers tend to think just the opposite, especially given that most of these DAC's have only passive pre-amps. Not here to argue, just stating what so many others have claimed. While my A26 does have optional volume control it should be noted this is nothing more than a ladder resister network, ie passive pre-amp, which I have yet to employ. I do recall the DC-1 having volume control but don't remember if it was active or passive. Its been a long time since I have had that one in the house. Thanks |
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Post by routlaw on Feb 2, 2023 16:05:35 GMT -5
I just bought a SMSL D400ES as Amazon had same day delivery yesterday. Looks like the A26 is a great option if I want to return mine and go up a level. I think this ESS DAC is great but it doesn’t have the “velvet sound”. Also in my case if I wait 20-30 days I can get another model within SMSL with the same specs for $250 less. Weird that so many models within SMSL seem to be the same under the cover. I’m still within my return window so I’ll see what emotiva has as well. I’m a “discerning” listener on a budget so it needs to be pretty good 😊. Don't have any experience with the SMSL products, but highly doubt you would be disappointed stepping into the A26. Good luck with your decisions. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 2, 2023 17:00:46 GMT -5
Interesting as most reviewers tend to think just the opposite, especially given that most of these DAC's have only passive pre-amps. Not here to argue, just stating what so many others have claimed. While my A26 does have optional volume control it should be noted this is nothing more than a ladder resister network, ie passive pre-amp, which I have yet to employ. I do recall the DC-1 having volume control but don't remember if it was active or passive. Its been a long time since I have had that one in the house. Thanks As I understand it, almost all DACs have digital-attenuation volume controls (not analog ones). In the olden days, digital volume was NOT a good option because as the volume decreased, bit-depth was sacrificed. In other words, the lower the volume, the more the detail loss. Any "modern" DAC that offers volume control first oversamples the audio signal such that even at the lowest volumes, virtually no details are lost. Is analog volume control superior to digital? Not such an easy question to answer... Although you lose no resolution with an analog volume control, you introduce other issues such as channel-to-channel balance and variation in impedance over the range of the volume pots. IMHO, it's six of one and a half-dozen of the other as to whether digital or analog volume is superior. What is usually not debatable, though, is that preamplifiers almost always use a buffering amplifier at the outlet of the volume control stage that feeds the downstream amplifier(s). Since DACs also have such buffer amplifiers, using an active preamplifier downstream of the DAC now creates a signal path with TWO buffer amplifiers. It's been my experience that most often (not always, but most often) I get better sound by letting the variable-volume DAC drive my power amps directly. YMMV |
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Post by Lsc on Feb 2, 2023 20:45:50 GMT -5
I just bought a SMSL D400ES as Amazon had same day delivery yesterday. Looks like the A26 is a great option if I want to return mine and go up a level. I think this ESS DAC is great but it doesn’t have the “velvet sound”. Also in my case if I wait 20-30 days I can get another model within SMSL with the same specs for $250 less. Weird that so many models within SMSL seem to be the same under the cover. I’m still within my return window so I’ll see what emotiva has as well. I’m a “discerning” listener on a budget so it needs to be pretty good 😊. Don't have any experience with the SMSL products, but highly doubt you would be disappointed stepping into the A26. Good luck with your decisions. I’m in hi-fi heaven with my new DAC. I can’t believe what I was missing out on. Using the XMC2 balanced in, not sure how good that section is but overall it’s a big improvement over going directly in the XMC2 w/Dirac. I may be disappointed only in the fact that the cost is double or triple vs the improvement. That’s what I’m trying to weigh. |
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Post by brutiarti on Feb 3, 2023 8:25:31 GMT -5
If Emotiva can service it after the warranty expires, I will try one.
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 3, 2023 9:43:06 GMT -5
If Emotiva can service it after the warranty expires, I will try one. that I know of anymore (used to be McIntosh, but I don’t think even they do it anymore) guarantees service on out-of-warranty gear. Why? COST! They’d have to maintain a huge warehouse of obsolete parts that would virtually NEVER get sold. The cost of that would add so much to the initial purchase price that the company would not be competitive and would rapidly go bankrupt. Electronics prices are highly competitive these days, and no company can compete with the albatross of “parts and repairs forever” hung around their neck. |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Feb 3, 2023 9:51:43 GMT -5
Bryston- 20 years. 👍👍
Russ
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Post by creimes on Feb 3, 2023 9:59:16 GMT -5
Bryston- 20 years. 👍👍 Russ About 20x the price though, so it all works out in the end  Chad |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 3, 2023 10:05:39 GMT -5
Thanks, audiosyndrome - I stand corrected. Allow me to rephrase my summary: "Electronics prices are highly competitive these days, and VERY FEW companies can compete with the albatross of “parts and repairs forever” hung around their necks." |
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Post by brutiarti on Feb 3, 2023 10:32:13 GMT -5
Esoteric just service a D-05 DAC. Also they serviced my P-05 transport last year. Both units are more than 12 years old.
I guess I rather pay more to avoid sending my audio equipment to the landfill after the warranty expires. There is no free lunch of course
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 3, 2023 13:01:47 GMT -5
Esoteric just service a D-05 DAC. Also they serviced my P-05 transport last year. Both units are more than 12 years old. I guess I rather pay more to avoid sending my audio equipment to the landfill after the warranty expires. There is no free lunch of course I think we can use common sense on this that we acquired through experience over the last 10 years or so. You are right in that historically servicing out of warranty items were much more prevalent and also electronic goods were actually serviceable. Well they made the parts so they had them. Nowadays, both internet and retail companies due to competition AND manufacturing overseas, it’s more of a distributor type model we are dealing with. I sold off both my XPR amps for this very reason. When I bought them, I figured these were going to last me 20 years and loved the performance of those amps especially compared to what I had before…receivers and lower end amps like the XPA series. My 2 buddies and I were sold on XPR amps and among us we had 8 XPR amps. 4 of them required repair and 2 of them died after warranty. So going back to common sense…if we know the products are manufactured or most or all of the parts are manufactured overseas, once the warranty expires and the model is discontinued with no refreshed model in place, expect no service. The gain is that we have bought the product for less money. It’s annoying but that’s where we are. I now have 2 ATI Signature amps and have 4.5 years left out of the 7 year warranty. They cost more but I feel a little more comfortable with these made in USA amps. Still, never know what the future brings. |
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Post by audiobill on Feb 3, 2023 14:38:28 GMT -5
What could Emo possibly offer that's not readily available from many others?
A lower price than Topping?
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Post by KeithL on Feb 3, 2023 14:47:01 GMT -5
There is a rather important distinction which I don't see here... An actual analog ladder network is made out of resistors and so is actually passive. However, that does not mean that devices that have an analog ladder network volume control IN THEM are passive. The DC1 did have an analog ladder network type Volume Control. This means that, with a digital input, the output of the DAC circuitry itself was fixed, and the output volume was controlled by an analog ladder network... And it also means that, with an analog input, the entire signal path was analog... However the signal path was NOT passive... There were still always active ANALOG buffers and an active ANALOG gain stage in the signal path (an ACTIVE ANALOG preamp section). The term "passive preamp" actually has a somewhat different meaning. A passive preamp is entirely passive, and so uses potentiometers, or resistor networks, or even multi-tap audio transformers, to alter the level of the signal. A passive preamp does not have any active buffers or gain stages. This offers a few benefits, but also a few rather serious drawbacks, which is why passive preamps "never caught on". - a resistor type passive preamp has no gain - and, while it should have virtually no noise or distortion, it has serious "impedance issues" (these include a rather low input impedance, and a rather high out impedance, both of which vary with the volume setting, and which limit things like interconnect length) - a passive preamp based on a transformer can actually have gain - but a transformer can also introduce distortion, as well as frequency response fluctuations, and more complicated problems, like ringing that shifts with source and load impedance There are also a few other things worth noting about "digital volume controls". When you use the volume control in a software player it works by reducing the resolution at lower volume levels. (This is unavoidable for the exact same reason that the number "50" has less digits than the number "500".) While this may or may not be audible it is technically delivering a signal with lower bit depth at lower volume settings. However, the digital volume controls implemented inside DAC chips work in a variety of different ways. Some may in fact reduce the bit depth and resolution of the audio signal in this same way. However some more sophisticated ones avoid doing so... (One way of doing this is to increase the bit depth of the incoming signal first...) And some of the better ones are now capable of delivering truly excellent performance... (A few can even deliver better performance than the best analog volume controls.) My Blu-Ray player has analog outputs only, and I don't use a preamplifier if I can avoid it. My current Emotiva Stealth DC-1 has an analog input and allows me to use the DAC as a preamp. I have preamplifiers, but my experience is that I (usually) get better sound without one in the signal path. Interesting as most reviewers tend to think just the opposite, especially given that most of these DAC's have only passive pre-amps. Not here to argue, just stating what so many others have claimed. While my A26 does have optional volume control it should be noted this is nothing more than a ladder resister network, ie passive pre-amp, which I have yet to employ. I do recall the DC-1 having volume control but don't remember if it was active or passive. Its been a long time since I have had that one in the house. Thanks |
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Post by KeithL on Feb 3, 2023 15:08:00 GMT -5
It's a funny thing... I agree that Topping and more than a few similar brands do make some really cool little DACs... And some of those cool little DACs deliver impressively good specs at impressively low prices... But I can also think of a really long list of companies who make DACs that cost a lot more... And, for some reason, some people still spend much more for a DAC from someone like McIntosh, or Benchmark, or maybe Bryston... So I guess the situation is a bit more complicated after all...  What could Emo possibly offer that's not readily available from many others? A lower price than Topping? |
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