Vaulta Ceiling Speakers - Help

[cawgijoe]

Need some help making a decision...

I'll be going to Atmos in a brand new home that I should be moving into end of 2024.

I was going to wait to buy the 4 in ceiling speakers till then, but am now being drawn to the lower price of the Vaultas. $199/pair. Would be about $429 with tax for four.
I would not be able to use these till then.

Is it worth spending the money now and putting them in the closet for another year and a half? Or should I just wait?

I like these speakers and do realize that I could get away with less expensive speakers for Atmos and maybe Emotiva will have a better product out before then....any comments are appreciated!

[marcl]

May 19, 2023 11:45:04 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

Need some help making a decision...

I'll be going to Atmos in a brand new home that I should be moving into end of 2024.

I was going to wait to buy the 4 in ceiling speakers till then, but am now being drawn to the lower price of the Vaultas. $199/pair. Would be about $429 with tax for four.
I would not be able to use these till then.

Is it worth spending the money now and putting them in the closet for another year and a half? Or should I just wait?

I like these speakers and do realize that I could get away with less expensive speakers for Atmos and maybe Emotiva will have a better product out before then....any comments are appreciated!

I've had Atmos for three years now and I don't regret spending (I think, around) $800 for the four tops ... a pair of Magnepan MMGW's for the front and a pair of Polk OWM5's for the rear.

The thing to consider is that Atmos is object-based and not channel-based.  There are a lot of times when a sound comes from several speakers in order to locate it in the space or move it through the space.  The other thing is with music now ... it's not just "sound effects" ... many movie mixes are putting music above and around, and of course Atmos/Spatial is more and more prevalent with music streaming.

[cawgijoe]

May 19, 2023 11:56:46 GMT -5 marcl said:

May 19, 2023 11:45:04 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

Need some help making a decision...

I'll be going to Atmos in a brand new home that I should be moving into end of 2024.

I was going to wait to buy the 4 in ceiling speakers till then, but am now being drawn to the lower price of the Vaultas. $199/pair. Would be about $429 with tax for four.
I would not be able to use these till then.

Is it worth spending the money now and putting them in the closet for another year and a half? Or should I just wait?

I like these speakers and do realize that I could get away with less expensive speakers for Atmos and maybe Emotiva will have a better product out before then....any comments are appreciated!

I've had Atmos for three years now and I don't regret spending (I think, around) $800 for the four tops ... a pair of Magnepan MMGW's for the front and a pair of Polk OWM5's for the rear.

The thing to consider is that Atmos is object-based and not channel-based.  There are a lot of times when a sound comes from several speakers in order to locate it in the space or move it through the space.  The other thing is with music now ... it's not just "sound effects" ... many movie mixes are putting music above and around, and of course Atmos/Spatial is more and more prevalent with music streaming.

Thanks...I hadn't thought much about the Spatial aspect...thoughts on the Vaultas and losing warranty because of not being able to use them for awhile?

[cwmcobra]

I had a long debate with myself about choosing Atmos speakers for my theater. Common "wisdom" is, if possible, use the same brand as the surrounds and perhaps the LCR also, in an effort to timbre match them to the others in the system. I see you have Emotiva ERD-1 surrounds, which I thought might suggest a good timbre match with the Vaultas. But I see the ERD's don't have the same tweeter. I'm not sure how much that would matter. I ended up mating Klipsch Atmos ceiling speakers with my Klipsch Heritage ensemble of speakers despite having entirely different tweeters. And I've had no qualms about the choice.

In my opinion, if you like the Vaultas and unless you want larger size Atmos speakers, you can't beat the cost-effectiveness of the current deal on them. They seem very well made and are highly regarded, especially the ribbon tweeter, so I think you could do a lot worse for more money and would likely be very happy with the Vaultas.

Just one opinion....

[marcl]

May 19, 2023 12:04:58 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

May 19, 2023 11:56:46 GMT -5 marcl said:

I've had Atmos for three years now and I don't regret spending (I think, around) $800 for the four tops ... a pair of Magnepan MMGW's for the front and a pair of Polk OWM5's for the rear.

The thing to consider is that Atmos is object-based and not channel-based.  There are a lot of times when a sound comes from several speakers in order to locate it in the space or move it through the space.  The other thing is with music now ... it's not just "sound effects" ... many movie mixes are putting music above and around, and of course Atmos/Spatial is more and more prevalent with music streaming.

Thanks...I hadn't thought much about the Spatial aspect...thoughts on the Vaultas and losing warranty because of not being able to use them for awhile?

I think it's fair to say that using in-ceiling speakers is a compromise for Atmos, because the top speakers work best when they are at the angle specified by Dolby and aimed at the MLP.   Using in-ceiling speakers relies on their dispersion off-axis to deliver the Atmos content.  Also consider efficiency relative to your other speakers, and the likelihood that the 70Hz lower limit is probably optimistic.  My Polks have two 4.5" drivers and only play down to 100Hz.

Of course I have no experience with these speakers.  I am using the B1+ for my rear surrounds and they do a great job.

[cawgijoe]

May 19, 2023 12:17:56 GMT -5 cwmcobra said:

I had a long debate with myself about choosing Atmos speakers for my theater. Common "wisdom" is, if possible, use the same brand as the surrounds and perhaps the LCR also, in an effort to timbre match them to the others in the system. I see you have Emotiva ERD-1 surrounds, which I thought might suggest a good timbre match with the Vaultas. But I see the ERD's don't have the same tweeter. I'm not sure how much that would matter. I ended up mating Klipsch Atmos ceiling speakers with my Klipsch Heritage ensemble of speakers despite having entirely different tweeters. And I've had no qualms about the choice.

In my opinion, if you like the Vaultas and unless you want larger size Atmos speakers, you can't beat the cost-effectiveness of the current deal on them. They seem very well made and are highly regarded, especially the ribbon tweeter, so I think you could do a lot worse for more money and would likely be very happy with the Vaultas.

Just one opinion....

Thank you.

The ERD-1 surrounds will go with me. I thought about replacing them, but I like them alot and they are working fine. My front speakers are Thiel. The ERD-1 has no problem "blending" into the system. I could be wrong, but I don't think the different tweeters will matter for Atmos.

I am a little worried that I would lose out on some warranty as I won't be using them for awhile, though I don't think this will matter.

[cawgijoe]

May 19, 2023 12:20:03 GMT -5 marcl said:

May 19, 2023 12:04:58 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

Thanks...I hadn't thought much about the Spatial aspect...thoughts on the Vaultas and losing warranty because of not being able to use them for awhile?

I think it's fair to say that using in-ceiling speakers is a compromise for Atmos, because the top speakers work best when they are at the angle specified by Dolby and aimed at the MLP.   Using in-ceiling speakers relies on their dispersion off-axis to deliver the Atmos content.  Also consider efficiency relative to your other speakers, and the likelihood that the 70Hz lower limit is probably optimistic.  My Polks have two 4.5" drivers and only play down to 100Hz.

Of course I have no experience with these speakers.  I am using the B1+ for my rear surrounds and they do a great job.

It's definitely a compromise, but I'm fine with that. I have the B1+ in a two channel system at the lake house that my wife and her sister enherited when their parents passed. Little system I set up and these speakers are awesome for the price.

I'm going to try and make a decision by this evening....I also see they have refurbished units for $20 less per speaker...probably not worth the $40 total savings.

[ttocs]

I used to be of the opinion that for ATMOS Tops it didn't matter much about the quality of the speakers. Used to.

After hearing a lot of music in the Tops in a movie recently, I was disappointed with the sound from those Tops.

I'm now of the opinion that the Tops should be every bit as good as the Surrounds.

The Vaultas seem like a good choice, and the tweeters are aimable up to 20º which is nice. But as Marc says, there's quite a bit of reliance on the dispersion below the crossover when mounted in a flat ceiling. A custom install would be helpful to build a slope into the speaker mounting location, like an eyebrow detail (an architectural term) for each speaker.

[cawgijoe]

May 19, 2023 12:51:44 GMT -5 ttocs said:

I used to be of the opinion that for ATMOS Tops it didn't matter much about the quality of the speakers. Used to.

After hearing a lot of music in the Tops in a movie recently, I was disappointed with the sound from those Tops.

I'm now of the opinion that the Tops should be every bit as good as the Surrounds.

The Vaultas seem like a good choice, and the tweeters are aimable up to 20º which is nice. But as Marc says, there's quite a bit of reliance on the dispersion below the crossover when mounted in a flat ceiling. A custom install would be helpful to build a slope into the speaker mounting location, like an eyebrow detail (an architectural term) for each speaker.

The house is our retirement home and it currently doesn't exist. The builder would be using an online plan that we would choose. I believe the ceiling in the family room is 11'. Flat, not vaulted in this particular plan. I do see alot of vaulted ceilings.

I'm sure the builder would give you anything you wanted as long as he gets paid.

[KeithL]

The whole "timbre matching" thing is not really as simple as it seems.

Room correction is going to do everything it can to correct all of your speakers to be as neutral as possible.
Therefore it only really becomes a problem if some of your speakers have a really "distinct and unusual" sound signature that exceeds the abilities of the room correction.
For example, if you used height speakers that were so dull, or so bright, that room correction couldn't correct them...
Or, in the other direction, if you had speakers that were so "harsh", or so "honky", that room correction couldn't make them sound "normal"...
However, as long as your speakers fall within a range where room correction can "control" them, then room correction will take care of any minor "timbre matching issues".
(You're basically trying to avoid "speakers that sound so wildly different than room correction can't get them to match".)
 And, while the folded ribbons we use now really do have exceptional clarity and detail, they are also actually pretty neutral...
So room correction should have no problem matching them to other speakers that are also relatively neutral (which includes most other ribbons, folded ribbons, and domes... and even some horns).

I would agree that you absolutely want to avoid using really poor quality speakers anywhere... including the height channels...
Even though Atmos ceiling speakers don't receive as much use as the other channels they will stand out if they actually sound bad...

May 19, 2023 12:17:56 GMT -5 cwmcobra said:

I had a long debate with myself about choosing Atmos speakers for my theater. Common "wisdom" is, if possible, use the same brand as the surrounds and perhaps the LCR also, in an effort to timbre match them to the others in the system. I see you have Emotiva ERD-1 surrounds, which I thought might suggest a good timbre match with the Vaultas. But I see the ERD's don't have the same tweeter. I'm not sure how much that would matter. I ended up mating Klipsch Atmos ceiling speakers with my Klipsch Heritage ensemble of speakers despite having entirely different tweeters. And I've had no qualms about the choice.

In my opinion, if you like the Vaultas and unless you want larger size Atmos speakers, you can't beat the cost-effectiveness of the current deal on them. They seem very well made and are highly regarded, especially the ribbon tweeter, so I think you could do a lot worse for more money and would likely be very happy with the Vaultas.

Just one opinion....

[cawgijoe]

Purchased the Vaultas.

Thanks all for helping me make this decision. Unfortunately I can’t play with them for awhile.

[cwmcobra]

I can relate. Mine sat in storage for a year before the build was ready for them.....

[cawgijoe]

I had one more question...these, like many are open...no backer box or enclosure. The manual says to lay a full size piece of insulation over them to help with sound quality. Maybe use Rockwool instead of fiberglass? How about using XTC baffles? 12" size?

These are designed with an open back and I always worry that changing the "design" by adding an enclosure may actually not help.

[SteveH]

May 23, 2023 8:09:52 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

I had one more question...these, like many are open...no backer box or enclosure. The manual says to lay a full size piece of insulation over them to help with sound quality. Maybe use Rockwool instead of fiberglass? How about using XTC baffles? 12" size?

These are designed with an open back and I always worry that changing the "design" by adding an enclosure may actually not help.

I installed four Definitive Technology DI8R speakers in my ceiling for Atmos and I used the 12" XTC baffles adhered to the attic side of the ceiling with outdoor caulk to encase the speakers to keep moisture and debris out of the speakers and it also helps keeps the sound from radiating throughout the rest of the house.  In my opinion, the baffles made the bass sound better.

[cawgijoe]

May 25, 2023 6:41:57 GMT -5 SteveH said:

May 23, 2023 8:09:52 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

I had one more question...these, like many are open...no backer box or enclosure. The manual says to lay a full size piece of insulation over them to help with sound quality. Maybe use Rockwool instead of fiberglass? How about using XTC baffles? 12" size?

These are designed with an open back and I always worry that changing the "design" by adding an enclosure may actually not help.

I installed four Definitive Technology DI8R speakers in my ceiling for Atmos and I used the 12" XTC baffles adhered to the attic side of the ceiling with outdoor caulk to encase the speakers to keep moisture and debris out of the speakers and it also helps keeps the sound from radiating throughout the rest of the house.  In my opinion, the baffles made the bass sound better.

Thanks Steve...I did see your video. Nice work!

This is still a ways off as the house is not yet built and hope to be in it by end of 2024. So it's a blank slate. That means I or the builder can run speaker wire, RG6, ethernet, etc. prior to drywall installation. It's going to be a two story house with master, kitchen, bath, living space(s) on the main floor and two bedrooms and bath upstairs with a "bonus room". The main AV system will be on the main floor. So, I don't think there will be attic space where the ceiling speakers will be installed. The 12" XTC's seem to be a really good solution though.

My main concern is keeping debris and dust out of the open speaker as well as limiting sound radiation.

[SteveH]

May 25, 2023 7:02:16 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

May 25, 2023 6:41:57 GMT -5 SteveH said:

I installed four Definitive Technology DI8R speakers in my ceiling for Atmos and I used the 12" XTC baffles adhered to the attic side of the ceiling with outdoor caulk to encase the speakers to keep moisture and debris out of the speakers and it also helps keeps the sound from radiating throughout the rest of the house.  In my opinion, the baffles made the bass sound better.

Thanks Steve...I did see your video. Nice work!

This is still a ways off as the house is not yet built and hope to be in it by end of 2024. So it's a blank slate. That means I or the builder can run speaker wire, RG6, ethernet, etc. prior to drywall installation. It's going to be a two story house with master, kitchen, bath, living space(s) on the main floor and two bedrooms and bath upstairs with a "bonus room". The main AV system will be on the main floor. So, I don't think there will be attic space where the ceiling speakers will be installed. The 12" XTC's seem to be a really good solution though.

My main concern is keeping debris and dust out of the open speaker as well as limiting sound radiation.

Thanks for watching. I am very jealous! Being able to prewire and perhaps 'over-wire' a new construction home with extra provisions would be a dream.  There are plenty of pre-construction speaker bracket rough-in kits with vapor boxes that should set you right up. Make sure you put more AC outlets in the main listening room than you will ever need, it is way cheaper to add it during the initial construction. 

[cawgijoe]

May 25, 2023 13:41:14 GMT -5 SteveH said:

May 25, 2023 7:02:16 GMT -5 cawgijoe said:

Thanks Steve...I did see your video. Nice work!

This is still a ways off as the house is not yet built and hope to be in it by end of 2024. So it's a blank slate. That means I or the builder can run speaker wire, RG6, ethernet, etc. prior to drywall installation. It's going to be a two story house with master, kitchen, bath, living space(s) on the main floor and two bedrooms and bath upstairs with a "bonus room". The main AV system will be on the main floor. So, I don't think there will be attic space where the ceiling speakers will be installed. The 12" XTC's seem to be a really good solution though.

My main concern is keeping debris and dust out of the open speaker as well as limiting sound radiation.

Thanks for watching. I am very jealous! Being able to prewire and perhaps 'over-wire' a new construction home with extra provisions would be a dream.  There are plenty of pre-construction speaker bracket rough-in kits with vapor boxes that should set you right up. Make sure you put more AC outlets in the main listening room than you will ever need, it is way cheaper to add it during the initial construction. 

Will do on the outlets.

Can you point me to speaker brackets/kits that would work with the Vaultas? There are a ton of brackets out there. Some say you don't need them. Others say it's great so that the drywallers cut the cicle in the correct place.


Received the Vaultas. They look great! Well built and packaged well. Box in box for shipping.