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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 14, 2023 8:49:13 GMT -5
I sold a tube power amp via eBay in February for $1,000. Rather than risk packing it myself (and becoming liable for shipping damage), I paid the corner UPS Store to pack it. I told them I didn't want ANY question about insufficient packaging if the amp got damaged in shipping, and to obey each and every UPS requirement in packing the amp. They did.
Despite their packing, the amp got totaled in transit. The buyer was good enough to take good photos of the packing and the damaged amp.
The shipment was insured by UPS for the total amount of sale (plus packaging and shipping costs).
On April 4th, I filed a claim for refund of the amp, the packaging, and the shipping.
It's now August 14th, and I've not been paid. The local UPS Store is on my side and they have sent more than 50 emails to UPS (almost all have been ignored). The UPS Store has been unable to reach anyone by phone who has any authority to deal with this case.
eBay forced me to refund the sale price to the purchaser. So I'm now out a thousand dollar amplifier. I also still have the purchaser on my case for the packing & shipping costs (about $500) that he paid outside of eBay.
The local UPS Store has advised me to file suit in small claims court to build a fire under UPS insurance branch. I've never used small claims court, and I understand that suing a national company in local small claims court involves special issues. The amount involved here, a total of $1,500, isn't large enough to justify hiring a lawyer.
So my question is: Have any of youse guys ever sued UPS? How did you go about it?
Thanks - Boomzilla
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Post by ttocs on Aug 14, 2023 9:51:49 GMT -5
Couple things, . . .
Shouldn't the UPS Store be the entity refunding your money? I realize they may just be an "Agent" for UPS, but still, you paid the store directly, not UPS.
It's easy to file a Consumer Complaint with your State's Attorney General Office. I began a complaint in my State in one situation which was quickly resolved once I filled out the form.
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,235 
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Post by novisnick on Aug 14, 2023 12:38:08 GMT -5
ttocs has a great point! I was having trouble with an international company and my State Representative helped me immensely ! Good luck Glenn
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 14, 2023 14:10:20 GMT -5
I sold a tube power amp via eBay in February for $1,000. Rather than risk packing it myself (and becoming liable for shipping damage), I paid the corner UPS Store to pack it. I told them I didn't want ANY question about insufficient packaging if the amp got damaged in shipping, and to obey each and every UPS requirement in packing the amp. They did. Despite their packing, the amp got totaled in transit. The buyer was good enough to take good photos of the packing and the damaged amp. The shipment was insured by UPS for the total amount of sale (plus packaging and shipping costs). On April 4th, I filed a claim for refund of the amp, the packaging, and the shipping. It's now August 14th, and I've not been paid. The local UPS Store is on my side and they have sent more than 50 emails to UPS (almost all have been ignored). The UPS Store has been unable to reach anyone by phone who has any authority to deal with this case. eBay forced me to refund the sale price to the purchaser. So I'm now out a thousand dollar amplifier. I also still have the purchaser on my case for the packing & shipping costs (about $500) that he paid outside of eBay. The local UPS Store has advised me to file suit in small claims court to build a fire under UPS insurance branch. I've never used small claims court, and I understand that suing a national company in local small claims court involves special issues. The amount involved here, a total of $1,500, isn't large enough to justify hiring a lawyer. So my question is: Have any of youse guys ever sued UPS? How did you go about it? Thanks - Boomzilla If UPS insured you for the entire amount and you have a record of it, of course from UPS with all the numbers, then getting with them live should have it taken care of. They haven’t told you they’re not gonna honor the claim. It should be a no-brainer sorry you’re having to go through all of that but I’m sure eventually they’ll make good on the claim probably just a matter of getting the right person live on the phone at this point |
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 14, 2023 16:00:46 GMT -5
The UPS Store is a separate legal entity than United Parcel Service. When you buy shipping insurance, you are paying UPS, not the local store. The insurance covers the item, the packaging, and the shipping.
UPS never claimed that this was "improperly packaged" - they couldn't since their subsidiary (The UPS Store) had done the packaging. They delayed payment repeatedly claiming that they needed "additional information" despite the fact that we'd provided them with:
Receipt for the initial shipment including packing, shipping, and insurance
Photos from the recipient showing the damage
Documentation of the potential repair cost to the item (in excess of the sales price)
The actual eBay receipt for the sale of the item (amount exactly equal to the insurance claim for damage)
Because of the amount involved, UPS has dragged their feet to the max on the insurance claim, but they couldn't deny it for any credible reason. So finally, this month (August), they sent me a refund check - but for the wrong amount. They wrote the check for the item and the shipping, but neglected to include the cost of packaging. UPS insurance is liable for packaging cost - not the local UPS Store. So I'm holding the check they've sent awaiting info on what they want to do - issue a second check for the packing cost alone or return the first check and write a second check for the whole enchilada.
UPS has "gone silent" since the local UPS Store notified them of the shortage. The local UPS Store suggested I sue them to get this moving again. I don't want to unless I absolutely have to, but it's beginning to look like it may be necessary.
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 14, 2023 16:09:46 GMT -5
……… What a shame! UPS suggesting you sue UPS. Of course I understand THAT….after all the explanation you provided. Wish I had an answer for you. If the check that you received from them was in the ballpark, maybe it would be better for you to just eat the difference instead of dealing with the aggravation and chalk it up as a learning experience, I can tell you from my own experience trying to ship glass with UPS (I don’t know how you dealt with the tubes.) The last time I tried shipping something glass with UPS it was a dismal failure.
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,008
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Post by KeithL on Aug 14, 2023 16:16:35 GMT -5
So they DID pay off on the value and the shipping cost... (It might be interesting to know exactly what "additional information" they said they needed.) The UPS Store is a separate legal entity than United Parcel Service. When you buy shipping insurance, you are paying UPS, not the local store. The insurance covers the item, the packaging, and the shipping. UPS never claimed that this was "improperly packaged" - they couldn't since their subsidiary (The UPS Store) had done the packaging. They delayed payment repeatedly claiming that they needed "additional information" despite the fact that we'd provided them with: Receipt for the initial shipment including packing, shipping, and insurance Photos from the recipient showing the damage Documentation of the potential repair cost to the item (in excess of the sales price) The actual eBay receipt for the sale of the item (amount exactly equal to the insurance claim for damage) Because of the amount involved, UPS has dragged their feet to the max on the insurance claim, but they couldn't deny it for any credible reason. So finally, this month (August), they sent me a refund check - but for the wrong amount. They wrote the check for the item and the shipping, but neglected to include the cost of packaging. UPS insurance is liable for packaging cost - not the local UPS Store. So I'm holding the check they've sent awaiting info on what they want to do - issue a second check for the packing cost alone or return the first check and write a second check for the whole enchilada. UPS has "gone silent" since the local UPS Store notified them of the shortage. The local UPS Store suggested I sue them to get this moving again. I don't want to unless I absolutely have to, but it's beginning to look like it may be necessary. |
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Post by monkumonku on Aug 14, 2023 18:43:03 GMT -5
The UPS Store is a separate legal entity than United Parcel Service. When you buy shipping insurance, you are paying UPS, not the local store. The insurance covers the item, the packaging, and the shipping. UPS never claimed that this was "improperly packaged" - they couldn't since their subsidiary (The UPS Store) had done the packaging. They delayed payment repeatedly claiming that they needed "additional information" despite the fact that we'd provided them with: Receipt for the initial shipment including packing, shipping, and insurance Photos from the recipient showing the damage Documentation of the potential repair cost to the item (in excess of the sales price) The actual eBay receipt for the sale of the item (amount exactly equal to the insurance claim for damage) Because of the amount involved, UPS has dragged their feet to the max on the insurance claim, but they couldn't deny it for any credible reason. So finally, this month (August), they sent me a refund check - but for the wrong amount. They wrote the check for the item and the shipping, but neglected to include the cost of packaging. UPS insurance is liable for packaging cost - not the local UPS Store. So I'm holding the check they've sent awaiting info on what they want to do - issue a second check for the packing cost alone or return the first check and write a second check for the whole enchilada. UPS has "gone silent" since the local UPS Store notified them of the shortage. The local UPS Store suggested I sue them to get this moving again. I don't want to unless I absolutely have to, but it's beginning to look like it may be necessary. That sucks about not being fully reimbursed. But based on the linked page below, shouldn't your local UPS Store reimburse you, under their Pack and Ship Guarantee? www.theupsstore.com/pack-ship/packing-services |
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 14, 2023 19:00:57 GMT -5
Available at participating stores…
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Post by monkumonku on Aug 14, 2023 19:48:48 GMT -5
Available at participating stores… I take it your store doesn't participate? In hindsight, that seems like something to ask about when selecting a UPS Store location. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 14, 2023 21:37:22 GMT -5
I take it your store doesn't participate? In hindsight, that seems like something to ask about when selecting a UPS Store location. The store claims that UPS corporate insures all costs - packing + shipping + damage amount. Apparently, the store chain owner opted to have his franchise covered by the parent company rather than accepting any local liability. In the past, it's worked fine. UPS corporate refunded all costs (and in a timely manner). But this claim (perhaps because of its size) has been (I believe) deliberately delayed by UPS. I looked into filing suit in civil court where I could claim both compensatory and punitive damages, but for the amount I'm claiming, the attorney fees would dwarf any recovery. Therefore, if I go to small-claims court, I can sue only for compensatory loss (not punitive). Oh well... |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 14, 2023 22:29:08 GMT -5
At the end of this gotta say……
Shipping a used GLASS TUBE amplifier?!?
Didn’t exactly pick yourself a relaxing evening!
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 14, 2023 22:32:41 GMT -5
And that's EXACTLY why the customer paid UPS for packing. Shipping damage would be insured.
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Post by mfeust on Aug 15, 2023 9:36:28 GMT -5
Most news stations have a consumer advocacy series to help people in your situation. Maybe that could work for you?
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Post by monkumonku on Aug 15, 2023 9:46:21 GMT -5
I sold a tube power amp via eBay in February for $1,000. Rather than risk packing it myself (and becoming liable for shipping damage), I paid the corner UPS Store to pack it. I told them I didn't want ANY question about insufficient packaging if the amp got damaged in shipping, and to obey each and every UPS requirement in packing the amp. They did. Despite their packing, the amp got totaled in transit. The buyer was good enough to take good photos of the packing and the damaged amp. The shipment was insured by UPS for the total amount of sale (plus packaging and shipping costs). On April 4th, I filed a claim for refund of the amp, the packaging, and the shipping. It's now August 14th, and I've not been paid. The local UPS Store is on my side and they have sent more than 50 emails to UPS (almost all have been ignored). The UPS Store has been unable to reach anyone by phone who has any authority to deal with this case. eBay forced me to refund the sale price to the purchaser. So I'm now out a thousand dollar amplifier. I also still have the purchaser on my case for the packing & shipping costs (about $500) that he paid outside of eBay. The local UPS Store has advised me to file suit in small claims court to build a fire under UPS insurance branch. I've never used small claims court, and I understand that suing a national company in local small claims court involves special issues. The amount involved here, a total of $1,500, isn't large enough to justify hiring a lawyer. So my question is: Have any of youse guys ever sued UPS? How did you go about it? Thanks - Boomzilla My curiosity forces me to ask, as $500 for packing and shipping costs is a significant amount. How much did the UPS Store charge for packing and how much was the shipping charge? That's half the price of the item you sold. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 15, 2023 10:55:16 GMT -5
It is, but I would not ship it unless the UPS Store did the packing - Otherwise UPS would claim that any shipping damage was MY fault for insufficient packaging (I no longer had the factory box & packaging). The packing was about $200, the shipping a bit over $250, or vice versa. The customer paid for both.
The cause of the damage was the "new" shipping rules that UPS has inflicted on their stores. Stores used to have the choice of using packing peanuts or air bags. UPS has now standardized on the flimsy air bags. These don't work for heavy items. The heavy item (in this case, the tube amp) gets shaken during transport, breaking the flimsy air bags, after which the item just rolls around inside the boxes, damaging itself. Double boxing doesn't prevent this. I didn't know about this before shipping or I'd have objected.
UPS can't complain about damages if the packing was done per their instructions (and they aren't even trying to claim inadequate packing on this shipment). It's just that their packing techniques are woefully insufficient for heavy, fragile items.
The amp arrived with the air bags broken, the volume pot shaft severely bent, the top surface of the amp badly scratched, and with two output tubes broken off at the sockets with the pins still jammed into the chassis. Repair costs (full set of matched tubes, new chassis top plate, and installed replacement volume pot) exceeded the cost of the item.
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 15, 2023 11:07:55 GMT -5
Most news stations have a consumer advocacy series to help people in your situation. Maybe that could work for you? The local news station DOES have a consumer advocate but I don't think they deal with non-local issues. |
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Post by monkumonku on Aug 15, 2023 11:17:49 GMT -5
Wow... which amp did you sell? I wish you the best in getting reimbursement from UPS!
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 15, 2023 11:28:09 GMT -5
Wow... which amp did you sell? I wish you the best in getting reimbursement from UPS! Thanks - It was a Black Ice Audio F22 - an EL34-based tube amp that sounded so great I was reluctant to let it go. But since we're moving out of state, I thought it just one more (heavy & fragile) thing that we'd need to move. |
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Post by gus4emo on Aug 15, 2023 12:56:20 GMT -5
Wow... which amp did you sell? I wish you the best in getting reimbursement from UPS! Thanks - It was a Black Ice Audio F22 - an EL34-based tube amp that sounded so great I was reluctant to let it go. But since we're moving out of state, I thought it just one more (heavy & fragile) thing that we'd need to move. The best thing to do is... Get an attorney!! |
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