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Post by leonski on Mar 20, 2024 21:13:59 GMT -5
Depending WHERE you relocate it may be better to add Solar / PV and a couple of the Tesla Power Wall, now up to 'Mk III'........ www.tesla.com/support/energy/powerwall/learn/what-expect-powerwall-3Then you'd be able to do FINE with one of the smaller Honda style......the small ones are 1kw while the next up is my favorite at 2kw....actually 2.2, but who's counting? Call it 50lb 'dry'..... And not have to store extrememe amounts of LNG or Gasoline OR Diesel....... powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu2200iRun genset into the batteries so you have max power available while being able to recharge at night when demand is minimal. Up to 8+ hours per gallon, but I'd expect less under higher demand...... 3x @5gallon should be quite enough for anything short of 'The End Of The World'....... |
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Post by MusicHead on Mar 20, 2024 22:36:56 GMT -5
[quote I were to use anything else, I'd want a water-cooled natural gas generator. But since I'm selling my house soon, there's no incentive to upgrade (wouldn't get the investment back at sale). Should I buy another house without a backup generator, I'll add the water-cooled, natural gas fueled one with maybe 20KW capacity. Boom I recently upgraded from a 14-yr old 10kW Generac standby generator to a 24kW model 😃. Both air-cooled and can run on either Propane or Natural Gas (with the latter you take a ~10% hit on rated power). Not cheap, but peace of mind is priceless... |
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Post by leonski on Mar 21, 2024 1:41:23 GMT -5
20kw is nearly 170 amps @120vac. Just WHAT are you powering?
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 21, 2024 7:08:34 GMT -5
20kw is nearly 170 amps @120vac. Just WHAT are you powering? 240v air conditioners, heaters, clothes washers, cook tops, ovens, & lighting. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 21, 2024 8:57:59 GMT -5
I have to chime in again to agree with this suggestion. Non-rechargeable Lithium batteries come in AA and AAA sizes... They actually deliver significantly more power than alkalines... They have a really long shelf life (somewhere between 10 and 20 years)... And, so far, in about ten years of using them, I have never had a single Energizer Ultimate Lithium battery corrode. They also work a lot better than rechargeables at very low temperatures... This makes them idea for things like emergency flashlights (which are used infrequently but "just have to work"). If you didn't know, the little NimH AA rechargeables don't work well at all at very low temperatures. NimH batteries have very poor power delivery and charging characteristics at very low temperatures (such as you might encounter in a car glove compartment.) I used to use them a lot back in the old days for my camera flash... They also seemed to have a nasty habit of simply refusing to take or hold a charge... randomly... but sometimes after only a few dozen uses. And, occasionally, one that "showed a full charge" would simply turn out to be dead (the chargers have trouble accurately determining their charge state). And, yes, SOME of the "fancy expensive chargers" do work a LOT better than some of the cheap ones. Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries are MUCH better in these regards... However, their life expectancy is only five years or so, whether you use them or store them... And, at least so far, I don't ever see direct replacements for 1.5V AA or AAA cells (LiIon cells tend to put our around 3.7v per cell). I despise Alkalines in my remotes. Leaking acid killing the contacts, have to get vinegar to kill that acid. Just plain not there. Lithiums. Cost more now, but don't leak like alkalines and last allot longer. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 21, 2024 9:00:14 GMT -5
Back in the early days of alkaline batteries both major brands actually carried an exceptional warranty... The manufacturer would replace ANY DEVICE that was ruined if one of their batteries corroded inside it... They would honor this regardless of the age of the batteries or the price of the device. (Notice how this warranty disappeared somewhere along the way.) Recently, I came up on “alkaline batteries“ that were advertised as guaranteed not to leak. I didn’t think much of it since when alkalines first arrived on the scene it was more or less a given that was something you would expect from the alkaline battery itself to be leak proof Never had trouble with that early on. It was later when they got cheap the trouble started. |
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Post by KeithL on Mar 21, 2024 9:11:29 GMT -5
If you're going to do something like that you are far better off using Lithium Ion rechargeables. They tend to be rated to deliver a lot more current... And each cell is usually around 3.7V (so you need fewer cells overall)... These are also commonly found in 12V packs... which work well for low voltage audio gear... You can also usually find them in a wide assortment of "power banks" and "replaceable battery packs". For audio gear you want a "simple 12V only one" whose output comes directly from the batteries... I've seen DIY projects where someone used a pair of 12V batteries for +12V and -12V... They then added a switch with positions for "charge +12V" "charge -12V" and "run"... (And throw in a few LEDS to show battery status.) I built a 10x (in series) AA power supply for my DAC. I figured a couple hours of use but was way optimistic. Current draw was pretty high and by the time I got done using FRESH batteries? Voltage way down and the pack was getting HOT...... End of experiment. |
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Post by KeithL on Mar 21, 2024 9:26:23 GMT -5
These days the charging circuitry is pretty common... although you do have to make sure to match it to the battery formulation you have. It's also pretty common to use a switching regulator to match whatever multiple of 3.7V you have to whatever you need... Modern switching regulators can deliver massive amounts of current, are quite efficient, and can easily output an output voltage that is higher or lower than their input voltage. Here's an example of a small one... www.ebay.com/itm/125104160678It takes in between 5V and 32V DC ... And puts out anywhere from 1.25V to 25V ... At up to 3A ... For less than $3.50 Or you can get modules that incorporate both the battery charging circuitry and the output regulator in a single unit. Even really big ones, of a size appropriate for a "power wall", are reasonably economical these dats. Rechargeable 'D'? Must be 3 or 4 or more chemistries in 'lithium' You can also get NiMh or NiCad.....both of which are about 1.25v per cell, not the 1.5 of alkaline. A SINGLE Lithium cell of the type I'm used to.....as in an 18650 cell used in my flashlight....is 3.7 volts which may be fine for the motor in the pump..... I don't know the specific chemistry of this particular cell, but DO know that Tesla bought A BaZillion of 'em for battery packs in their autos...... And with low rates of usage? Do what I do which is keep a spare ready to go. IF I had a genset for home use and anticipated annual use by season? I'd own DIESEL. Somewhat safer to store and use and less costly in most places. For 'emergency' use? I'd consider one of the 2kw HONDA gas gensets. 2 Can be strapped for much higher outputs.......You can just about tuck it under one arm and it is very quiet so nobody needs to know..... |
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Post by leonski on Mar 21, 2024 17:34:05 GMT -5
Trick with 'powerwall' and similar is the SOFTWARE.
And if your parasite power company has managed to institute RULES about when you can charge.
If you Must charge at nite? Goes on your power bill but if you have enough surplus PV, you can charge
during the day and 'coast' at night or do stuff like run the AC when rates are lowest......
Low night rates aren't going to last. Once California basically outlaws the IC engine? Rates will go UP
to take advantage of electric car guys.
ME? I'd go off-grid if possible and let them go pound sand......
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Post by leonski on Mar 21, 2024 21:15:42 GMT -5
These days the charging circuitry is pretty common... although you do have to make sure to match it to the battery formulation you have. It's also pretty common to use a switching regulator to match whatever multiple of 3.7V you have to whatever you need... Modern switching regulators can deliver massive amounts of current, are quite efficient, and can easily output an output voltage that is higher or lower than their input voltage. Here's an example of a small one... www.ebay.com/itm/125104160678It takes in between 5V and 32V DC ... And puts out anywhere from 1.25V to 25V ... At up to 3A ... For less than $3.50 Or you can get modules that incorporate both the battery charging circuitry and the output regulator in a single unit. Even really big ones, of a size appropriate for a "power wall", are reasonably economical these dats. Rechargeable 'D'? Must be 3 or 4 or more chemistries in 'lithium' You can also get NiMh or NiCad.....both of which are about 1.25v per cell, not the 1.5 of alkaline. A SINGLE Lithium cell of the type I'm used to.....as in an 18650 cell used in my flashlight....is 3.7 volts which may be fine for the motor in the pump..... I don't know the specific chemistry of this particular cell, but DO know that Tesla bought A BaZillion of 'em for battery packs in their autos...... And with low rates of usage? Do what I do which is keep a spare ready to go. IF I had a genset for home use and anticipated annual use by season? I'd own DIESEL. Somewhat safer to store and use and less costly in most places. For 'emergency' use? I'd consider one of the 2kw HONDA gas gensets. 2 Can be strapped for much higher outputs.......You can just about tuck it under one arm and it is very quiet so nobody needs to know..... Is this PS 'clean' enough for discriminating audio applications? I bought a 12v MeanWell of 36 or 48 watts and it was Pristine running my DAC......Maybe 20$ to my door...... |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 22, 2024 9:06:28 GMT -5
I recently upgraded from a 14-yr old 10kW Generac standby generator to a 24kW model 😃. Both air-cooled and can run on either Propane or Natural Gas (with the latter you take a ~10% hit on rated power). Not cheap, but peace of mind is priceless... Air cooled would be fine for where I live now. I'd have a garage, a 2-car carport, and about 30 more feet between the house & the generator. Were the generator to be located next to my bedroom window, for example, I would want the quieter operation of a water-cooled engine. I wouldn't want LNG on my property, so unless I could tie into a (reliable) municipal natural gas grid, my second choice would be propane. A large on-site propane tank would still last for quite while. And although propane still presents a BLEVE hazard, it's an order of magnitude less hazardous than a LNG tank BLEVE. I guess you could also use an array of physically-separated, smaller-sized propane tanks with manual or automatic switching. |
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Post by leonski on Mar 22, 2024 14:08:18 GMT -5
I suspect Diesel would present an even lower hazard. But would need 'fuel saver' and regular use. Even to the point of some large part new fuel on an annual basis.
I do not undertand an emergency Genset depending on a municiple service.....If a REAL Emergency, you are on your own. Which, IMO, would include food for a couple months and
perhaps weapons and proper training.
Having a diesel auto might help, too.......My choice would be one of those gigantic Ford F250 with the V8 Diesel.....My brother had the 6.7 PowerStroke in HIS truck and it was a brute.
Just for the sake of 'Not Advertising', I would have the most quiet setup. In a soundproof 'blimp', as you'd find on a yacht.
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 22, 2024 15:41:12 GMT -5
In the event of nuclear war, yes, we'd need to be fully self-contained. But for hurricane or ice storm use, the "worst case scenario" would be maybe a month without power. And I'm conditioned by a lifetime of experience - my city has NEVER lost water pressure or natural gas pressure in the 72 years that I've lived here. Other municipalities may not have as good a utility reliability as we do here. Both our water and gas lines are underground here, and not prone to interruption by winds or floods. Electrical service, being both above ground and subject to tree damage, does go out regularly.
I've owned a diesel vehicle before (an Isuzu truck). Yes, it was economical, but no, I wouldn't want another. I'd buy an electric vehicle like a Ford Lightening pickup but for the facts that batteries don't do well when temperatures fall (as they're likely to do in New England) and even though I don't haul anything, I have doubts about the range.
So for the time being, I'm keeping my 2018 Honda Odyssey (FWD) since it has less than 35k miles on it. It does have a "snow mode" button on the dash that turns the transmission into a limited-slip model. It might get me out of an icy ditch - but it might not... I'll deal with that after we've moved.
Being familiar with a lifetime of hurricanes here, we keep food, water, self-protection, cash, and an emergency travel kit (medical supplies, passports, etc.) should we need them. If we DID decide to evacuate on short notice, we could load some extra cans of generator gasoline into the back of the van and have enough range to get three or four States away before needing more gas.
So, I'm convinced that we're about as "disaster ready" as we can get. We'll need some additional and/or different things once we move to New England, but again, we can reevaluate when we get there.
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 22, 2024 17:22:52 GMT -5
The rechargeable lithium D-cells top out at 1.53VDC when fully-charged. This isn’t as good as the 1.8 volts of the (disposable) AA & AAA cells, but it’s better than alkaline D-cells that are usually 1.50 volts when new.
How well will rechargeable D-cells hold up under load? When on standby? Time will tell…
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Post by leonski on Mar 22, 2024 23:02:17 GMT -5
Here in california we really do not have much of a Hurricane problem. A larger problem and one that could disrupt in-ground utilities would be an EarthQuake. A month of independent off-grid living? Certain minimums apply. If using freezedried food, like Mountainhouse (good taste and known nutrition) you'll need an additional 1/2 gallon per person per day. 1500 to 2000 calories per person per day multiplied by number of persons and desired duration. Fuel needed to heat water for sanitation and cooking. mountainhouse.com/collections/multi-day-emergency-kitsIf you were to end up in say.....New Hampshire? MILES of unpaved / graded roads. People living behind seasonally closed gates ALSO maintain a snowmobile and many have rusted half-to-death Subarus..... I maintain a set of CABLES for my 'Lament. My '83 or so Accord was UnStoppable when so equipped. I drove around for a week up in Mammoth (snow measured in FEET not inches) with no problems...... You will seriously want some kind of AWD vehicle. My Mazda CX-5 gets gangbusters reviews and should be VERY good on shitty roads. Add a snow tire or studded or cables and I'd have high confidence..... NO PLAN survives first contact with the enemy. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 24, 2024 12:29:44 GMT -5
...NO PLAN survives first contact with the enemy. I guess that describes my teenage dating history... |
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Post by leonski on Mar 24, 2024 21:15:02 GMT -5
The rechargeable lithium D-cells top out at 1.53VDC when fully-charged. This isn’t as good as the 1.8 volts of the (disposable) AA & AAA cells, but it’s better than alkaline D-cells that are usually 1.50 volts when new. How well will rechargeable D-cells hold up under load? When on standby? Time will tell… Never seen a battery at 1.8v, of the disposible type. Here is the Panasonic 'handbook' and lists probably more than anyone would care to know. Even how they are constructed eu.industrial.panasonic.com/sites/default/pidseu/files/downloads/files/id_alkaline_1203_e.pdfHow much $$$ IS 20kw of Generac installed? I suspect a PV system would be a good comp.......and last longer and without the 'periodic maintenance' needed by any genset you expect to be 100% for long time periods..... I guessed pretty high. I see Generac in the 6k$ area. Add for permits / install and wiring-switching. It won't go a penny under 10K$ I don't think.......PV may run 2x that, but have far lower 'running' costs and be useful even when no 'emergency' Generac PROTECTOR series is Diesel. the 20kw model is about 15,000$ (OUCH!) Keep in mind that Some jurisdictions may allow diesel but not allow more than a certain amount of NG / LPNG or Gasoline on-site. |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Mar 24, 2024 21:33:43 GMT -5
How much $$$ IS 20kw of Generac installed? 2-1/2 years ago the price for a 18KW Generac installed was $7,940.19 including the 16 circuit 100A Generator panel. |
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Post by leonski on Mar 24, 2024 23:15:53 GMT -5
How much $$$ IS 20kw of Generac installed? 2-1/2 years ago the price for a 18KW Generac installed was $7,940.19 including the 16 circuit 100A Generator panel. Gas, Natural gas, or Diesel? Today I'll bet Same Install goes over 10k....and rising...... Here in SoCal? I'll bet between permitting (a PIA) and dealing with install, probably More..... Might even need some kind of 'permission' from the electric company......another bunch of parasites. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 25, 2024 5:58:41 GMT -5
My largest “home” portable Generac cost $2,200 after taxes. I installed my own manual switch (another $200). No, it isn’t as convenient as the whole home natural gas generators with automatic switches, but it cost 1/5 as much.
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