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Post by markc on Mar 27, 2024 4:08:25 GMT -5
I absolutely agree with 5.1.4 being the most sensible speaker arrangement... especially if you don't have a VERY large room. At the risk of seeming a bit cynical I simply don't think it's a major priority to have enough speakers to provide "pinpoint placement anywhere in the room". A GOOD 5.1.4 system does an excellent job of pinpointing sounds across the front stage - where that's most important. A pair of surrounds adds the ability to localize "sound that surrounds" - whether "stuff happening behind you" or "ambience". And two pairs of heights provide that third height dimension - with the ability to control both the left/right and the front/back aspect of where sounds are located. I think that this is all you really need to get a proper "immersive experience" from most Atmos content... And, if I had a bigger budget, I would much rather spend more money on BETTER speakers than on simply adding MORE speakers... And as I listen to every Zoomer of people taking about mixing for Atmos that I can find ... they all say they use a 7.1.4 system as the reference. Yes, I agree 5.1.4 is the best starting point, and 5.1.4 is significantly better than 7.1.2. I think it depends a lot on your ability to get surround speakers away from the walls. If you're doing 5.1.4 and the surrounds are on the side walls and you have a few feet of space behind the couch, there is likely going to be a hole that can be filled with 7.1.4. I am going to present the reasonable defence as to why this 5.1.4 advice is rarely correct and why 7.1.2 is better, given the same number of channels. I think it is a hangover from when 5.1.2 was deemed by most to be better than 7.1, which is something I would agree with. If I added two channels to a 5.1 system, I would make it 5.1.2 If I added a further two channels, I would make it 7.1.2 to make the surround sound actually surround me rather than opt for 5.1.4 which leaves a "hole" behind me. Without the rear speakers of a 7.1 setup, the Atmos system, whether 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 is unable to pan from rear to front or front to rear. The sound panning just stops overhead because it must. 7.1.2 absolutely has a full dome of sound emanation. 5.1.4 absolutely does not. This is true even with 5.1 Dolby MAT Atmos sources such as Netflix - the rear channels of a 7.1.x are anything but silent as the rear surround is almost always properly matrixed into the side surrounds. The rear speakers go directly behind the listening position and are thus truly rears so can be difficult to place in some living rooms or even home theatres. However the rear pair of Atmos speakers ALSO should go BEHIND the listening position. Hence if you have little space behind the seating/sofa then neither a 7.1.2 nor 5.1.4 is going to work properly as the Atmos algorithm is not able to make the rear sound emanate from the rear without a speaker actually at the rear. Finally, the more speakers one has, the more difficult it is to distinguish directional audio. Our ability to directionally appreciate 4 or six individual overhead speakers is actually quite limited. If you can do it with your system while watching an Atmos / DTS:X movie then I will 100% bet that you have tweaked the levels for the Atmos speakers to make them a few dB louder than reference because otherwise you find it hard to convince yourself they are working when you listen to a movie. With a properly calibrated setup, one would barely know they are there and it is very rare for sound to be localised to the Atmos speakers, but they are usually mixed to augment the audio illusion into that dome of reality. (or 6/8 of a dome if you have 5.1 bed speakers rather than 7.1) |
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Post by marcl on Mar 27, 2024 6:35:03 GMT -5
And as I listen to every Zoomer of people taking about mixing for Atmos that I can find ... they all say they use a 7.1.4 system as the reference. Yes, I agree 5.1.4 is the best starting point, and 5.1.4 is significantly better than 7.1.2. I think it depends a lot on your ability to get surround speakers away from the walls. If you're doing 5.1.4 and the surrounds are on the side walls and you have a few feet of space behind the couch, there is likely going to be a hole that can be filled with 7.1.4. I am going to present the reasonable defence as to why this 5.1.4 advice is rarely correct and why 7.1.2 is better, given the same number of channels. I think it is a hangover from when 5.1.2 was deemed by most to be better than 7.1, which is something I would agree with. If I added two channels to a 5.1 system, I would make it 5.1.2 If I added a further two channels, I would make it 7.1.2 to make the surround sound actually surround me rather than opt for 5.1.4 which leaves a "hole" behind me. Without the rear speakers of a 7.1 setup, the Atmos system, whether 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 is unable to pan from rear to front or front to rear. The sound panning just stops overhead because it must. 7.1.2 absolutely has a full dome of sound emanation. 5.1.4 absolutely does not. This is true even with 5.1 Dolby MAT Atmos sources such as Netflix - the rear channels of a 7.1.x are anything but silent as the rear surround is almost always properly matrixed into the side surrounds. The rear speakers go directly behind the listening position and are thus truly rears so can be difficult to place in some living rooms or even home theatres. However the rear pair of Atmos speakers ALSO should go BEHIND the listening position. Hence if you have little space behind the seating/sofa then neither a 7.1.2 nor 5.1.4 is going to work properly as the Atmos algorithm is not able to make the rear sound emanate from the rear without a speaker actually at the rear. Finally, the more speakers one has, the more difficult it is to distinguish directional audio. Our ability to directionally appreciate 4 or six individual overhead speakers is actually quite limited. If you can do it with your system while watching an Atmos / DTS:X movie then I will 100% bet that you have tweaked the levels for the Atmos speakers to make them a few dB louder than reference because otherwise you find it hard to convince yourself they are working when you listen to a movie. With a properly calibrated setup, one would barely know they are there and it is very rare for sound to be localised to the Atmos speakers, but they are usually mixed to augment the audio illusion into that dome of reality. (or 6/8 of a dome if you have 5.1 bed speakers rather than 7.1) I'll agree with you somewhat, but on the issue of 2 vs 4 tops, my basis is that Dolby folks have said (in some webinar I can't put my finger on) that Atmos won't steer Objects front to back with only 2 tops ... it needs 4. The 2 tops become bed channels. That would be true with 5 or 7 below. The 5.1.x spec puts the surrounds a little more behind the MLP than 7.1.x. i.e. this arrangement should not have a hole in the rear, because the surrounds are a little back and there are tops behind the MLP ...  With 5.1.2 there's a big difference with no tops in front or behind ...  I think the issue is to get away from channel-based thinking. The tops not being used just for overhead sounds but rather contributing to steering lower in the 3D space between the MLP and the front and rear and sides, potentially at ear level.
And how many speakers? I do think room size dictates that. It would be pointless for me to have front wides or 6 tops. But in 20x30ft room it would make sense, maybe. But I can't see how having more speakers degrades our ability to perceive object location. Atmos has more to work with, and should do a more precise job .... even though it might not be so obvious in a small room. What I think does make a big difference is to have the tops and surrounds as they are in the spec so that there is physical separation. I think it's valid to tweak levels. I use the Spears & Munsil disc to get levels as close as I can to less than 1db if possible. But ... obstructions, reflections, absorptions and probably asymmetry of my hearing usually requires a tweak of 1-2db in some speakers so the sound is balanced. I use familiar sources to check the actual locations of sounds, as well as the moving sweeps in the S&M disc. Attachments:
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Post by PaulBe on Mar 27, 2024 9:08:10 GMT -5
I am going to present the reasonable defence as to why this 5.1.4 advice is rarely correct and why 7.1.2 is better, given the same number of channels. I think it is a hangover from when 5.1.2 was deemed by most to be better than 7.1, which is something I would agree with. If I added two channels to a 5.1 system, I would make it 5.1.2 If I added a further two channels, I would make it 7.1.2 to make the surround sound actually surround me rather than opt for 5.1.4 which leaves a "hole" behind me. Without the rear speakers of a 7.1 setup, the Atmos system, whether 7.1.2 or 7.1.4 is unable to pan from rear to front or front to rear. The sound panning just stops overhead because it must. 7.1.2 absolutely has a full dome of sound emanation. 5.1.4 absolutely does not. This is true even with 5.1 Dolby MAT Atmos sources such as Netflix - the rear channels of a 7.1.x are anything but silent as the rear surround is almost always properly matrixed into the side surrounds. The rear speakers go directly behind the listening position and are thus truly rears so can be difficult to place in some living rooms or even home theatres. However the rear pair of Atmos speakers ALSO should go BEHIND the listening position. Hence if you have little space behind the seating/sofa then neither a 7.1.2 nor 5.1.4 is going to work properly as the Atmos algorithm is not able to make the rear sound emanate from the rear without a speaker actually at the rear. Finally, the more speakers one has, the more difficult it is to distinguish directional audio. Our ability to directionally appreciate 4 or six individual overhead speakers is actually quite limited. If you can do it with your system while watching an Atmos / DTS:X movie then I will 100% bet that you have tweaked the levels for the Atmos speakers to make them a few dB louder than reference because otherwise you find it hard to convince yourself they are working when you listen to a movie. With a properly calibrated setup, one would barely know they are there and it is very rare for sound to be localised to the Atmos speakers, but they are usually mixed to augment the audio illusion into that dome of reality. (or 6/8 of a dome if you have 5.1 bed speakers rather than 7.1) I'll agree with you somewhat, but on the issue of 2 vs 4 tops, my basis is that Dolby folks have said (in some webinar I can't put my finger on) that Atmos won't steer Objects front to back with only 2 tops ... it needs 4. The 2 tops become bed channels. That would be true with 5 or 7 below. The 5.1.x spec puts the surrounds a little more behind the MLP than 7.1.x. i.e. this arrangement should not have a hole in the rear, because the surrounds are a little back and there are tops behind the MLP ... View AttachmentWith 5.1.2 there's a big difference with no tops in front or behind ... View AttachmentI think the issue is to get away from channel-based thinking. The tops not being used just for overhead sounds but rather contributing to steering lower in the 3D space between the MLP and the front and rear and sides, potentially at ear level.
And how many speakers? I do think room size dictates that. It would be pointless for me to have front wides or 6 tops. But in 20x30ft room it would make sense, maybe. But I can't see how having more speakers degrades our ability to perceive object location. Atmos has more to work with, and should do a more precise job .... even though it might not be so obvious in a small room. What I think does make a big difference is to have the tops and surrounds as they are in the spec so that there is physical separation. I think it's valid to tweak levels. I use the Spears & Munsil disc to get levels as close as I can to less than 1db if possible. But ... obstructions, reflections, absorptions and probably asymmetry of my hearing usually requires a tweak of 1-2db in some speakers so the sound is balanced. I use familiar sources to check the actual locations of sounds, as well as the moving sweeps in the S&M disc. Concerning dimension perception: When using a .2 height arrangement, there is side-to-side and front-to-back height movement. I still hear this front-to-back movement stepping back from .6 heights to .2 heights. It's not just a visual trick of seeing something move on-screen from center to top of screen and then out of sight. My room is about 20’ long. My .2 heights/in-ceiling-tops are placed Anthony Grimani style about 13 degrees forward from MLP. With .2 heights, does the processor use front and back main speakers – LCR and L&R back/surr - for more of the front and back height information? In other words, does height object steering include use of main speakers for height object steering? I expect the answer is yes, with the distribution of steering determined by the embedded source object metadata (which may be simple or complicated), the processor programming, and the Height speaker count. The degree of distribution would be perceptual based on physical Height layout. ~~~ IMO, Anthony Grimani has the best and most practical advice for integrating speaker layout and channel selection for a given room size. The pics that LuisV offered show it in short form: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1123623/thread |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Mar 28, 2024 13:17:55 GMT -5
I got my new Dayton Audio top speakers hung! I had to make some custom brackets, as noted earlier, because the factory-supplied mounting points are not likely to handle hanging with a torque on them. The customer brackets "cradle" the speakers and take the load off the factory mounting point. It's still used but only prevents left/right movement of the speaker. My biggest learning in getting the speakers up was that I'd forgotten that the main drain line for our house runs behind the wall the TV is mounted on. And, it blocks snaking wires upward to the ceiling! I had to go laterally, then up to the ceiling. I should have remembered it...I did all the framing in the basement when I turned it from an unfinished basement into my theater, spare bedroom, office, full bathroom, and utility room! It also reminded me that if I ever build a house again, I'll spec out mechanical layouts so a drain line doesn't take up space I want to use for other purposes! Also, I realized I needed some 2 meter XLR cables to connect my XPA-5 to my XMC-2...so, I await shipment of those, but at least I have the speakers ready! Meanwhile, here's a pic of 1 of the speakers.  Mark (PS...odd that the Lounge loaded the picture sideways...it's not that orientation in the original. But, if you click on it, it shows properly!) |
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Post by marcl on Mar 28, 2024 14:15:32 GMT -5
I got my new Dayton Audio top speakers hung! I had to make some custom brackets, as noted earlier, because the factory-supplied mounting points are not likely to handle hanging with a torque on them. The customer brackets "cradle" the speakers and take the load off the factory mounting point. It's still used but only prevents left/right movement of the speaker. My biggest learning in getting the speakers up was that I'd forgotten that the main drain line for our house runs behind the wall the TV is mounted on. And, it blocks snaking wires upward to the ceiling! I had to go laterally, then up to the ceiling. I should have remembered it...I did all the framing in the basement when I turned it from an unfinished basement into my theater, spare bedroom, office, full bathroom, and utility room! It also reminded me that if I ever build a house again, I'll spec out mechanical layouts so a drain line doesn't take up space I want to use for other purposes! Also, I realized I needed some 2 meter XLR cables to connect my XPA-5 to my XMC-2...so, I await shipment of those, but at least I have the speakers ready! Meanwhile, here's a pic of 1 of the speakers. View AttachmentMark (PS...odd that the Lounge loaded the picture sideways...it's not that orientation in the original. But, if you click on it, it shows properly!) Very nice! Having them aimed like that will be really good. Now, while I'm here, I'll share something I was working on today that may be useful to you and others regarding dialing in speaker levels for the best Atmos imaging. It makes a big difference in Atmos imaging to have the levels and delays all in alignment. Dirac does a great job getting the time alignment precise ... and that's good because we have no way to tweak that after calibration. The levels can be more tricky because often Atmos objects are placed between speaker locations and move around requiring two or more speakers to steer the sound. That's the object ... of objects. I've found that the audio tools on disc 3 of the newest Spears & Munsil Ultra HD Benchmark work really well. I use the level noise signals to get all the speakers to within less than 1db. Today I listened to the Panning tools to see if subjectively the levels sounded uniform as the signal moved around the room between speakers. It seemed that there were some differences so I measured with the REW SPL meter as the sound panned around, and found a couple channels needed to go up or down a bit. As the noise signal moved from speaker to speaker I noted the level as it reached each speaker and made adjustments so that they all measured the same. In most cases the level goes up when the signal is between two speakers, and that is to be expedited. After doing this I checked with the Dolby Atmos Demo Disc since I'm very familiar with all the files. Indeed the imaging was more uniform than it had been. So ... might give this approach a try as a check to fine tune the levels. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Apr 1, 2024 16:26:16 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for the help! I finally got the final parts to hook up my FR/FL front and back tops. I realized I needed some 2m XLR's, so they arrived and I hooked them up.
I've been busy - travel to Atlanta and back, ordering speakers + ceiling brackets + custom-making things to support the speakers (the connectors on the speakers I bought were a bit weak...). And, along with all that, I needed a new PC to be my ROON core and be what I run DIRAC from. So, I had to order that and get it set up. I also needed to update my XMC-2 to the latest FW. And, with each part, there were some issues I had to resolve.
Anyway, I have everything done except running DIRAC. But, I gave Atmos a go with Avengers: Endgame on Disney+. I didn't even get to the good scenes, and I was impressed. Once I run DIRAC, it should be really good.
Up next...I have to do our taxes (and my wife worked in ~6 states, so...fun...). Then, run DIRAC and relax to enjoy!
Mark
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Post by marcl on Apr 1, 2024 16:36:59 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for the help! I finally got the final parts to hook up my FR/FL front and back tops. I realized I needed some 2m XLR's, so they arrived and I hooked them up. I've been busy - travel to Atlanta and back, ordering speakers + ceiling brackets + custom-making things to support the speakers (the connectors on the speakers I bought were a bit weak...). And, along with all that, I needed a new PC to be my ROON core and be what I run DIRAC from. So, I had to order that and get it set up. I also needed to update my XMC-2 to the latest FW. And, with each part, there were some issues I had to resolve. Anyway, I have everything done except running DIRAC. But, I gave Atmos a go with Avengers: Endgame on Disney+. I didn't even get to the good scenes, and I was impressed. Once I run DIRAC, it should be really good. Up next...I have to do our taxes (and my wife worked in ~6 states, so...fun...). Then, run DIRAC and relax to enjoy! Mark At least doing Dirac is easier than doing taxes in 6 states! |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Apr 1, 2024 16:48:03 GMT -5
At least doing Dirac is easier than doing taxes in 6 states! I'm really dreading the taxes. She only worked 1-2 weeks in most states, so her taxes due or refunded are very small in each state. So small that it costs us more in e-filing fees and TurboTax charges to file than she will get refunded or owe. To pay someone to do it would cost even more. But, we have to file, and doing it hard-copy is worse. Thank goodness her income and happiness from supporting Broadway Series shows (costumes and wardrobe - backstage) is worth it. She's on her way home from Arkansas supporting Disney's Aladdin. If you saw it in Charlotte, NC; Chicago, IL; Detroit, MI; St. Louis, MO; Syracuse, NY; Cincinnati, OH; or (in 2024) in Birmingham, AL or Fayetteville, AK...she was backstage during the shows. And, she was on-stage during a special live costume change hiding behind a piece of the set. My little gypsy...a very talented lady. Mark |
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Post by marcl on Apr 1, 2024 16:56:01 GMT -5
At least doing Dirac is easier than doing taxes in 6 states! I'm really dreading the taxes. She only worked 1-2 weeks in most states, so her taxes due or refunded are very small in each state. So small that it costs us more in e-filing fees and TurboTax charges to file than she will get refunded or owe. To pay someone to do it would cost even more. But, we have to file, and doing it hard-copy is worse. Thank goodness her income and happiness from supporting Broadway Series shows (costumes and wardrobe - backstage) is worth it. She's on her way home from Arkansas supporting Disney's Aladdin. If you saw it in Charlotte, NC; Chicago, IL; Detroit, MI; St. Louis, MO; Syracuse, NY; Cincinnati, OH; or (in 2024) in Birmingham, AL or Fayetteville, AK...she was backstage during the shows. And, she was on-stage during a special live costume change hiding behind a piece of the set. My little gypsy...a very talented lady. Mark It's very tricky too if some states have a state income tax and your state has one and they have reciprocity so you have to pay one and get refunded by the other. 2018 my wife finally move to PA from Jersey and retired. She worked in NJ but moved to PA ... I worked in DE and PA ... then we got "married" (i.e. got the license signed and mailed it in) so we filed jointly. I paid H&R to figure out THAT mess  |
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 2, 2024 8:21:53 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for the help! I finally got the final parts to hook up my FR/FL front and back tops. I realized I needed some 2m XLR's, so they arrived and I hooked them up. I've been busy - travel to Atlanta and back, ordering speakers + ceiling brackets + custom-making things to support the speakers (the connectors on the speakers I bought were a bit weak...). And, along with all that, I needed a new PC to be my ROON core and be what I run DIRAC from. So, I had to order that and get it set up. I also needed to update my XMC-2 to the latest FW. And, with each part, there were some issues I had to resolve. Anyway, I have everything done except running DIRAC. But, I gave Atmos a go with Avengers: Endgame on Disney+. I didn't even get to the good scenes, and I was impressed. Once I run DIRAC, it should be really good. Up next...I have to do our taxes (and my wife worked in ~6 states, so...fun...). Then, run DIRAC and relax to enjoy! Mark At least doing Dirac is easier than doing taxes in 6 states! Very true! I wish we didn't have to do taxes...how about just taking a percentage and leave us alone? So many hours, hair pulling, hand wringing, stress...! |
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Post by davidl on Apr 6, 2024 10:06:59 GMT -5
For those who have an Atmos system, I have some questions... 1) Are you finding enough Atmos content in streaming? If so, where? I can stream DV and Atmos through my Roku Ultra to my XMC-2; and we have Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, Amazon Prime, etc. as content providers. 2) Do you think adding Front/Rear Height channels adds enough value to a 7.1 system? 3) Do you have the Emotiva height speakers or others? In any case, do you like them? For perspective, I have an XMC-2 and I happen to have an XPA-5 with 1 channel that doesn't work. But, it has 4 that do...I could connect it to my XMC-2 and power Front/Rear left and right height speakers. I've got easy access to add the needed speaker cable and a wall jack to connect that to the amp. So, I'm suddenly tempted... Thanks for any thoughts! Mark Atmos streaming content is pretty robust. Especially on Disney +, Netflix, and Amazon Prime. I will say the height speakers are hit or miss depending on the content, but the right Atmos movie with the heights added creates a super immersive experience. Speaker wise I just have four Monorpice 8” 2 way speakers, I want to say they were in the range of $200 a pair. They are powered by two stereo modules from my XPA-9 G3. Just saw this thread so I'm a bit late to the party. I've got a 9.4.2 system using Emotiva's MC1. (I actually built the room with 9.6.2 but the MC1 only supports 13 channels.) While those services mentioned do provide Atmos content, there are a couple caveats. For Netflix, someone mentioned you need their highest priced plan and that's true. I grudgingly updated to it in order to get Atmos on Netflix. However, beware that Amazon Prime only provides Atmos content with their 4K video streams, not their 1080p streams. If you have a 1080p display, you'll only get their 5 channel surround not Atmos. You must have a 4K display in order to get Atmos. I have a 1080p projector so can't receive Atmos from Amazon Prime. I've tried it with both Apple TV and their FireTV device and no Atmos from either. The other thing to note is that none of the streaming services give you a great Atmos experience due to the amount of compression they apply. You'll get the 3D sound effect but if you were to compare it to say an Atmos signal from a Blu-ray Disc, it's night and day. Every aspect of the sound from a Blu-Ray is superior to any of the streaming services I've tried. Every now and again, I'll watch a Blu-Ray just to remind myself of just how good movies can sound. |
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Post by marcl on Apr 6, 2024 10:35:30 GMT -5
Atmos streaming content is pretty robust. Especially on Disney +, Netflix, and Amazon Prime. I will say the height speakers are hit or miss depending on the content, but the right Atmos movie with the heights added creates a super immersive experience. Speaker wise I just have four Monorpice 8” 2 way speakers, I want to say they were in the range of $200 a pair. They are powered by two stereo modules from my XPA-9 G3. Just saw this thread so I'm a bit late to the party. I've got a 9.4.2 system using Emotiva's MC1. (I actually built the room with 9.6.2 but the MC1 only supports 13 channels.) While those services mentioned do provide Atmos content, there are a couple caveats. For Netflix, someone mentioned you need their highest priced plan and that's true. I grudgingly updated to it in order to get Atmos on Netflix. However, beware that Amazon Prime only provides Atmos content with their 4K video streams, not their 1080p streams. If you have a 1080p display, you'll only get their 5 channel surround not Atmos. You must have a 4K display in order to get Atmos. I have a 1080p projector so can't receive Atmos from Amazon Prime. I've tried it with both Apple TV and their FireTV device and no Atmos from either. The other thing to note is that none of the streaming services give you a great Atmos experience due to the amount of compression they apply. You'll get the 3D sound effect but if you were to compare it to say an Atmos signal from a Blu-ray Disc, it's night and day. Every aspect of the sound from a Blu-Ray is superior to any of the streaming services I've tried. Every now and again, I'll watch a Blu-Ray just to remind myself of just how good movies can sound. And ... a couple months ago when Prime started charging money for no ads ... they secretly disabled Atmos/Vision unless you pay them the $2.99/mo. Irrespective of video resolution. |
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Post by davidl81 on Apr 6, 2024 16:33:37 GMT -5
Atmos streaming content is pretty robust. Especially on Disney +, Netflix, and Amazon Prime. I will say the height speakers are hit or miss depending on the content, but the right Atmos movie with the heights added creates a super immersive experience. Speaker wise I just have four Monorpice 8” 2 way speakers, I want to say they were in the range of $200 a pair. They are powered by two stereo modules from my XPA-9 G3. Just saw this thread so I'm a bit late to the party. I've got a 9.4.2 system using Emotiva's MC1. (I actually built the room with 9.6.2 but the MC1 only supports 13 channels.) While those services mentioned do provide Atmos content, there are a couple caveats. For Netflix, someone mentioned you need their highest priced plan and that's true. I grudgingly updated to it in order to get Atmos on Netflix. However, beware that Amazon Prime only provides Atmos content with their 4K video streams, not their 1080p streams. If you have a 1080p display, you'll only get their 5 channel surround not Atmos. You must have a 4K display in order to get Atmos. I have a 1080p projector so can't receive Atmos from Amazon Prime. I've tried it with both Apple TV and their FireTV device and no Atmos from either. The other thing to note is that none of the streaming services give you a great Atmos experience due to the amount of compression they apply. You'll get the 3D sound effect but if you were to compare it to say an Atmos signal from a Blu-ray Disc, it's night and day. Every aspect of the sound from a Blu-Ray is superior to any of the streaming services I've tried. Every now and again, I'll watch a Blu-Ray just to remind myself of just how good movies can sound. Yeah I have to agree with what you said here. If you really want a high quality Atmos (or DTS:X) soundtrack you really have to get it via physical media. Streaming is fine, but no where near physical media. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Apr 10, 2024 8:43:33 GMT -5
I finally got my new XPA-7-3-2s, my old XPA-4 (XPA-5 w/1 dead channel...LOL!), my new Dayton Audio top speakers all hooked up and an initial DIRAC run. I tested out Atmos by going to Disney+ and turning on Avengers Endgame. I was impressed. Very immersive.
And, it's just going to get better...it turns out the amp plate on my Rythmik F25 evidently was fried by whatever took out my XPA-5 channel and Hypex monoblocks. So, I've pulled the amp out and will be sending it back to Rythmik for repairs. In the interrim, I pulled out my old Paradigm Ultracube 10. So, the bass isn't as impressive, but it still sounds great.
Mark
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Post by klinemj on Apr 11, 2024 14:58:12 GMT -5
So, I'm getting Atmos on Disney+, but as I check Netflix for titles that I read were in Atmos on Netflix (i.e., 6 Underground and a few others) - I don't see Atmos as an audio option. We do have a Netflix Premium subscription. Am I missing something? FYI, I'm streaming via a Roku Ultra to the XMC-2 to my LG TV. As noted, I do get Atmos via Disney+ (the XMC-2 shows "Atmos", also). When I play what "should" be a Netflix Atmos show - the XMC-2 shows "surround" instead of Atmos and Netflix doesn't show Atmos as a sound option when I click on the show in question.
Can someone with Netflix (and ideally a Roku Ultra) provide me some shows that currently play Atmos for you? Thanks in advance for any advice!
Mark
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Post by klinemj on Apr 12, 2024 9:17:48 GMT -5
So, I'm getting Atmos on Disney+, but as I check Netflix for titles that I read were in Atmos on Netflix (i.e., 6 Underground and a few others) - I don't see Atmos as an audio option. We do have a Netflix Premium subscription. Am I missing something? FYI, I'm streaming via a Roku Ultra to the XMC-2 to my LG TV. As noted, I do get Atmos via Disney+ (the XMC-2 shows "Atmos", also). When I play what "should" be a Netflix Atmos show - the XMC-2 shows "surround" instead of Atmos and Netflix doesn't show Atmos as a sound option when I click on the show in question. Can someone with Netflix (and ideally a Roku Ultra) provide me some shows that currently play Atmos for you? Thanks in advance for any advice! Mark I got my answer on this after I figured out the right Google search to do. Evidently, there's an issue with older Roku Ultras that results in them not being able to play Netflix's Atmos (but plays pretty much every other app's Atmos. In the Ultra line, it has to be a 4800 or newer. I have a 4660rw...so, a new Roku Ultra is on order. Mark |
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Erwin.BE
Emo VIPs
It's the room, stupid!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by Erwin.BE on Apr 22, 2024 18:12:19 GMT -5
Hi Mark and everyone, how are you doing all? First post in years from my side. Before you ask: that build in my sig is still ongoing, but don't ask why :-) though the space is in use with only stereo from the XMC-2 (traded in my XMC-1 for it) for now but with all the acoustics in place. Sounds fantastic. It really is the room which is all important.
What interests me in this debate however is the difference between tops end heights. I watched some video's from Techno Dad and he's clearly advocating for heights vs tops in a 7.1.6 configuration anyway. I actually tested Front Heights long time ago when I had a Yamaha AVR that supported (upmixed) Front Heights. I can still remember how the the depth of the front stage was created by this Front Heights. Food for thought. When I go to the Dolby website now, it seems to favor 9.1.6 using F+R Heights and Top middle vs all Tops. While the 2018 Guidelines PDF does not favor one above the other. Hmmm..
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Post by PaulBe on Apr 22, 2024 18:51:05 GMT -5
Hi Mark and everyone, how are you doing all? First post in years from my side. Before you ask: that build in my sig is still ongoing, but don't ask why :-) though the space is in use with only stereo from the XMC-2 (traded in my XMC-1 for it) for now but with all the acoustics in place. Sounds fantastic. It really is the room which is all important. What interests me in this debate however is the difference between tops end heights. I watched some video's from Techno Dad and he's clearly advocating for heights vs tops in a 7.1.6 configuration anyway. I actually tested Front Heights long time ago when I had a Yamaha AVR that supported (upmixed) Front Heights. I can still remember how the the depth of the front stage was created by this Front Heights. Food for thought. When I go to the Dolby website now, it seems to favor 9.1.6 using F+R Heights and Top middle vs all Tops. While the 2018 Guidelines PDF does not favor one above the other. Hmmm.. I'm not seeing this new .6 F+R 'height' favor at the Dolby site: www.dolby.com/about/support/guide/speaker-setup-guides/Could you offer a link please? |
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Post by LuisV on Apr 22, 2024 19:15:00 GMT -5
What interests me in this debate however is the difference between tops end heights. I watched some video's from Techno Dad and he's clearly advocating for heights vs tops in a 7.1.6 configuration anyway. I've been following him for a while and what he says indeed makes perfect sense... especially since he can prove what the sound mixer sees and has available to create the track via the dolby atmos renderer. Even Anthony Grimani gave him kudos for what he is doing... if you don't know who Anthony is, give him a quick google. Channa, techno dad, basically advocates to mimic your bed layer, higher on the wall... um, that's Auro-3D speaker configuration / recommendation. :max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/auro-3d-audio-logo-10-1-aaa-5a5fcc6f494ec900379fdde6-fda551fa296640118bc22a061a01d67e.jpg) |
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Post by marcl on Apr 22, 2024 20:08:44 GMT -5
Hi Mark and everyone, how are you doing all? First post in years from my side. Before you ask: that build in my sig is still ongoing, but don't ask why :-) though the space is in use with only stereo from the XMC-2 (traded in my XMC-1 for it) for now but with all the acoustics in place. Sounds fantastic. It really is the room which is all important. What interests me in this debate however is the difference between tops end heights. I watched some video's from Techno Dad and he's clearly advocating for heights vs tops in a 7.1.6 configuration anyway. I actually tested Front Heights long time ago when I had a Yamaha AVR that supported (upmixed) Front Heights. I can still remember how the the depth of the front stage was created by this Front Heights. Food for thought. When I go to the Dolby website now, it seems to favor 9.1.6 using F+R Heights and Top middle vs all Tops. While the 2018 Guidelines PDF does not favor one above the other. Hmmm.. I disagree with Channa on this point: Dolby has a spec for where the tops are located. Mixing engineers arrange their studio and are certified by Dolby. They mix with the speakers in those locations so to hear what they hear you put the speakers where Dolby says they go. Channa makes an argument that if a sound object is at the top center of the front wall and you follow the 5.1.4 locations, the object will be rendered forward of the front wall. But the opposite is also true. If the object was placed by the mix engineer at the Dolby front top location, and you put the tops against the front wall like Channa says, then the object will be rendered at the front wall and not 45 degrees up as it was mixed. So given that it will always be a compromise, I think it makes the most sense to follow the Dolby spec. In the end ... more speakers will always render the object closer to the intended location. I haven't heard a discussion with mix engineers yet where they talk about 9.1.6. It's always 5.1.4 or 7.1.4. |
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