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Post by lrobertson on Oct 6, 2024 11:20:11 GMT -5
The trade in pricing or rather "upgrade" structure doesn't feel as modular as an approach as was advertised when buying the current gen.. I too hope they find a way to include dlbc into the current gen to give us better options.
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Post by aswiss on Oct 6, 2024 12:01:57 GMT -5
I didn't find mention of the specifics of trading in an RMC-1L for an XMC-2+. I would assume you would get the assigned trade in value no matter what + model you choose. Your assumption is correct, trade-in $2000/$3000/$3500 remain constant no matter which new G4P you choose. So all the people that bought their RMC-1 at reduced prices will get the same 2000$ price as those who paid full price back then?
ok - 5yr warranty instead of 1 yr - but a raise of around 200% is a complete other story.
And they will be available by End of Q1/2025 earliest, when I read that correctly with availability of some Chips (which I thought should be delivered within 2 weeks according Dan's statement in July.
Not really what I expected, but I'm customer, either accept or get something else - as some said earlier.
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Post by lowellg on Oct 6, 2024 13:59:20 GMT -5
I was kind of thinking the same thing. That’s why I wish they put some side-by-side specs in a data sheet. If I remember right, the XMC2 only had the front three channels with the high-end DAC. And then the rest were not the same. Where as the RMC 1L had all channels and just didn’t have the big chassis for expansion. so I think the new XMC2 is really the new RMC 1L. all channels are supported by the new DAC. I wish they would give specifics like how many independent channels there are and can you specify what they are. Since they’re 16 channels. Can I do 7.4.4. Or am I still stuck with 7.3.4. my room is small so I don’t think I want 9 nine layer or 6 overhead. Currently running 7.2.4 I believe you are stuck with 3 subs max. Emotiva did not make the front wides flexible as in front wides or extra subs. This would require additional development so probably expect to see this when Dirac ART becomes available which is probably never. You’d have to get the RMC1+ that will eventually have additional sub outs to get your 4 sub outputs but who knows when that’ll happen and how reliable it would be. Hard to speculate, but given the Emotiva’s processor architecture, changes don’t seem very easy. Also they were the same DACs but the XMC2 only had the front 3 channels and the center sub channel set to “mono” mode…aka “bridged” which is supposed to improve the S/N ratio slightly. The other 12 channels had the DACs set to stereo mode so 2 channels shared a DAC. Where as the RMC1L had all 16 channels with DACs in “mono” mode. However, the rest of the circuitry was the same so even by Emotiva’s admission, the RMC1L’s value add minimal and the sound quality was essentially the same. So will the new ones have stereo or mono with the 1795s. I am pretty sure Denton and Marantz say they are stereo, just non similar channels. Like front left is shared with top right. |
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Post by klinemj on Oct 6, 2024 14:25:53 GMT -5
Is AirPlay streaming supported in any way on the + processors? Either natively over wifi or with the streamer expansion? We did not get into that. As I understand it, there will be WiFi and I believe BluTooth, but I'll have to check my notes on BluTooth. I'm not an Apple guy, so I don't know if AirPlay can use both or neither, but...it you can you both - it should work. Then again...Apple does odd things, from my experience, so you likely know better than I do. My Android can play anything to either. Mark |
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Post by klinemj on Oct 6, 2024 14:27:30 GMT -5
I just added some pix to the 2nd post...FYI. More to be added soon. If the links don't work...please...only 1 person tell me. I pre-tested them privately, so they should. But, we don't need the thread derailed with "why don't they work" comments. I'm just a lounge member.  Mark |
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Post by klinemj on Oct 6, 2024 14:29:31 GMT -5
The trade in pricing or rather "upgrade" structure doesn't feel as modular as an approach as was advertised when buying the current gen.. I too hope they find a way to include dlbc into the current gen to give us better options. I'm not sure what you mean by "modular"...sounds like you want the 8K w/o other parts. In any case, the 8K appears to be dictating other changes (power supply). That dictates others. So...you get 8K and the rest, or you don't get 8K. Clarify and we'll see if we can answer. Mark |
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Post by klinemj on Oct 6, 2024 14:31:13 GMT -5
I'm in an edge case where I have more than 5 subs and not all with the same charateristics. I'd either need to assess which ones to eliminate or I wonder if I could group them together with my ddrc-88bm minidsp. Is it plausible to have decent results if the RMC-1+ dlbc were to see the 5 sub outs and make adjust for the subwoofer collocated groups? I assume the most important thing is to arrange the groups based on room location. If I were you, I would: 1) question whether 5 subs are really needed... 2) call and talk to Damon about the pro's/con's and abilities of the +series to handle what you want. Mark |
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Post by klinemj on Oct 6, 2024 14:39:16 GMT -5
I like the 'Trade-in' path with the full new warranty. Total cost for my out of warranty RMC-1L plus a new warrantied RMC-1+ will still be less than a current AV10 - with $room to spare for possible modules. Cudos Emotiva. This is a ' home run' plan. If the function and modules follow, it's a 'home run' with all bases loaded. My questions and comments so far: 1. Will the military discount apply to the trade-in price? 2. Please mention more about the 'LM837 Op Amp (bi-polar)' analog output stages in the RMC-1+ when you can. Specifically - are the LM837's in the RMC-1+ run in Class A as talked about in a recent podcast? 3. The 2 channel 'Executive' Stack looks very good. It makes me think of a reasonably priced Benchmark Stack + a streamer. 4. The new XPA amp module looks nice. The new emitter resistors look like Mundorfs - nice touch. Not sure what you mean by 'more of them' unless there is also more output transistors - And higher or similar current capability - to go with them. Stability can be increased with a higher resistance value alone, but this affects other aspects of amp design. Thanks to klinemj for all your work! You're welcome...I could not have taken the notes and gotten all the info without the help of many key lounge members...too many to list! And, re. #1 and #2, we didn't ask about those things. On #3, I do agree...nice little stack! For me, I'd skip the external DAC and preamp, and just use the streamer's DAC and Volumio volume contol + the amp. But, for those who need more analog inputs, the preamp is a nice touch. On #4, I'm not sure on resistors vs. transistors...didn't ask. I'm sure the results will be evident in the specs once released. And, no specs were shared. I would have loved to have heard them! Mark |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 6, 2024 14:42:34 GMT -5
I'm sharing my link via Google Drive...you should be able to click on the link and see the folder/pix. If not, I'll revise. If you have pix to add, PM me and we'll figure out how to get them in! This is a link to pix of gear and demo's: Gear/Demo PixThis is a link to pix of people at the event: PeopleOh my! "RMC-1+ ships with expansion phono stage and XLR stereo input modules for free". THAT is a +. drive.google.com/drive/folders/1GJBgXfTfhz-EaGS1fH497ILNqTuUhBFGPic 9 on the Gear/Demo Pix drive... 1000006242.jpg |
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Post by klinemj on Oct 6, 2024 14:50:42 GMT -5
I'm sharing my link via Google Drive...you should be able to click on the link and see the folder/pix. If not, I'll revise. If you have pix to add, PM me and we'll figure out how to get them in! This is a link to pix of gear and demo's: Gear/Demo PixThis is a link to pix of people at the event: PeopleOh my! "RMC-1+ ships with expansion phono stage and XLR stereo input modules for free". THAT is a +. drive.google.com/drive/folders/1GJBgXfTfhz-EaGS1fH497ILNqTuUhBFGPic 9 on the Gear/Demo Pix drive... 1000006242.jpg I can't say whether it does or does not. That was just a pic of something sitting around with an open top, so who knows. They have a lot of stuff sitting around that we took pix of. Once they are fully available, check that with Emotiva. Mark |
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Post by PaulBe on Oct 6, 2024 14:57:47 GMT -5
I can't say whether it does or does not. That was just a pic of something sitting around with an open top, so who knows. They have a lot of stuff sitting around that we took pix of. Once they are fully available, check that with Emotiva. Mark Pic 9 is an Emotiva PLUS Processor FAQ - a piece of paper. |
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Post by klinemj on Oct 6, 2024 15:14:09 GMT -5
I can't say whether it does or does not. That was just a pic of something sitting around with an open top, so who knows. They have a lot of stuff sitting around that we took pix of. Once they are fully available, check that with Emotiva. Mark Pic 9 is an Emotiva PLUS Processor FAQ - a piece of paper. Sorry - couldn't figure out what you meant by Pic 9. I mistakenly posted that, but the pic was of a page Dan gave me to use in my notes. So - likely legit. I would still check prior to buying. Before I saw your message, I deleted the pic from my shared drive as I didn't realize it was relevant. They were talking notes from Dan for me to use in my notes, and I didn't focus on that part. Mark |
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Post by ttocs on Oct 6, 2024 15:25:00 GMT -5
Re: Default Channel Count: 9.1.6 Width channels will remain as they currently are. End of story. Same with the Left/Right Sub/Height Outputs. Re: Expansion Modules The Speaker and Subwoofer Expansion Modules are completed, waiting for Dirac Certification. One module is for Speakers, one module is for Subwoofers and each module has its own DSP Processing so will not burden the main processing board. Re: DLBC Center Sub Output plus one 4 Subwoofer Output expansion module = 5 Subwoofer Outputs. I asked Lonnie very specifically about using two Subwoofer Modules for a total of 9 subwoofers, maybe later but not now. 5 Subwoofers is the current number for the +Series. After Dirac certification, the Subwoofer Modules will be available. (I want 8 Subwoofer Outputs.) Re Power Supply The power needed to run the +Series is lower than anticipated. The 8K board is not as power hungry as originally thought. At the peak moments, the Wattage barely peaks at around 100W, and is nominally much lower, so the 200W Power Supply is way more than enough for the RMC-1+. The Output Channel board with the DACs on it is the one that gets the hottest because of the way the super duper DACs are setup. In Damon's Demo Room the processor was running the original 100W Power Supply. Re: What's Missing? The 8K HDMI board and the Power Distribution board that takes the power from the Power Supply over a single set of wires and multiplexes out to the other boards. Re: New Amp Module It's got 2 pre-drivers and 8 power devices on it (2 x 1 pre-driver + 4 power devices), heatsink is massive, and it's beautiful! It'll provide 1KW @ 2Ω! It is an Emotiva Design and was developed with the aid of Dave Goodman, formerly of Krell. He's the ONE responsible for my Krell DUO 300 XD amp sounding so dang good! He developed the XD circuit for Krell (Walter Schofield may be able to take credit for being in charge of Krell when the XD circuit was developed, but the XD circuit was all because of Dave and his nature for making things better!). Even though I just bought two more amps from Emotiva on Saturday, I'll be buying more when the new amps are available simply because Dave Goodman is involved. This amp module is fully baked, not a prototype. RMC-1+ Back Panel Note the gold devices, or objects, those little round things.  |
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Post by lrobertson on Oct 6, 2024 15:59:00 GMT -5
The trade in pricing or rather "upgrade" structure doesn't feel as modular as an approach as was advertised when buying the current gen.. I too hope they find a way to include dlbc into the current gen to give us better options. I'm not sure what you mean by "modular"...sounds like you want the 8K w/o other parts. In any case, the 8K appears to be dictating other changes (power supply). That dictates others. So...you get 8K and the rest, or you don't get 8K. Clarify and we'll see if we can answer. Mark Meaning modular as in they wouldn't discontinue the support as it developed into a more mature unit. One example is the hdmi board. The idea that there would be an hdmi upgrade ability on the current models into the future to me meant there would be smaller sections we'd be able to upgrade. Such as 11.1.8 or the 4 channel sub expansion etc. Kind of turned out to be hopefully available on the next unit. Enough of the unit needed to be swapped out to deliver on the channel counts I'm assuming. And as far as 5 subs. My needs and wants are two different things haha. I like the headroom and at this point I'd have to hall 100s of pounds of subs behind a at screen. So basically disassemble a false wall and then realign my screen and projector and anamorphic lens.. I think if ART ever was adopted then there really wouldn't be a good reason to box up any subs other than not enough channels. This may even be the case with dlbc. |
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Post by lrobertson on Oct 6, 2024 16:10:52 GMT -5
Re: Default Channel Count: 9.1.6 Width channels will remain as they currently are. End of story. Same with the Left/Right Sub/Height Outputs. Re: Expansion Modules The Speaker and Subwoofer Expansion Modules are completed, waiting for Dirac Certification. One module is for Speakers, one module is for Subwoofers and each module has its own DSP Processing so will not burden the main processing board. Re: DLBC Center Sub Output plus one 4 Subwoofer Output expansion module = 5 Subwoofer Outputs. I asked Lonnie very specifically about using two Subwoofer Modules for a total of 9 subwoofers, maybe later but not now. 5 Subwoofers is the current number for the +Series. After Dirac certification, the Subwoofer Modules will be available. (I want 8 Subwoofer Outputs.) Re Power Supply The power needed to run the +Series is lower than anticipated. The 8K board is not as power hungry as originally thought. At the peak moments, the Wattage barely peaks at around 100W, and is nominally much lower, so the 200W Power Supply is way more than enough for the RMC-1+. The Output Channel board with the DACs on it is the one that gets the hottest because of the way the super duper DACs are setup. In Damon's Demo Room the processor was running the original 100W Power Supply. Re: What's Missing? The 8K HDMI board and the Power Distribution board that takes the power from the Power Supply over a single set of wires and multiplexes out to the other boards. Re: New Amp Module It's got 2 pre-drivers and 8 power devices on it (2 x 1 pre-driver + 4 power devices), heatsink is massive, and it's beautiful! It'll provide 1KW @ 2Ω! It is an Emotiva Design and was developed with the aid of Dave Goodman, formerly of Krell. He's the ONE responsible for my Krell DUO 300 XD amp sounding so dang good! He developed the XD circuit for Krell (Walter Schofield may be able to take credit for being in charge of Krell when the XD circuit was developed, but the XD circuit was all because of Dave and his nature for making things better!). Even though I just bought two more amps from Emotiva on Saturday, I'll be buying more when the new amps are available simply because Dave Goodman is involved. This amp module is fully baked, not a prototype. RMC-1+ Back Panel Note the gold devices, or objects, those little round things. Thanks for the info. It sounds like Lonnie isn't shutting down that discussion on more subs which is interesting.. this is where I'd put the dumb and dumber gif. So your telling me there's a chance. Great news on the channel expansions actually being done minus the dirac approval. And even better news on your new moderator position! Congrats! I selfishly hope you get your 8 sub channels haha |
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Post by klinemj on Oct 6, 2024 16:14:01 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you mean by "modular"...sounds like you want the 8K w/o other parts. In any case, the 8K appears to be dictating other changes (power supply). That dictates others. So...you get 8K and the rest, or you don't get 8K. Clarify and we'll see if we can answer. Mark Meaning modular as in they wouldn't discontinue the support as it developed into a more mature unit. One example is the hdmi board. The idea that there would be an hdmi upgrade ability on the current models into the future to me meant there would be smaller sections we'd be able to upgrade. Such as 11.1.8 or the 4 channel sub expansion etc. Kind of turned out to be hopefully available on the next unit. Enough of the unit needed to be swapped out to deliver on the channel counts I'm assuming. And as far as 5 subs. My needs and wants are two different things haha. I like the headroom and at this point I'd have to hall 100s of pounds of subs behind a at screen. So basically disassemble a false wall and then realign my screen and projector and anamorphic lens.. I guess your definition of modular and mine are different. There is an HDMI upgrade soon to be available on the current chassis. It comes at a cost far less than an all new processor. If you expected it to be free or lower cost, well...I won't say more. As for the other upgrades...appears they prioritized other things. My rule? Buy what's available. Never buy what might come (and that's not just an Emotiva rule...I just bought a new car...based on what it is...not what it could be.) And...they didn't discontinue support on 4K and what you have. They offer an upgrade for a reasonable (to me) upgrade. To you? Whatever... Mark |
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Post by lrobertson on Oct 6, 2024 16:22:19 GMT -5
Meaning modular as in they wouldn't discontinue the support as it developed into a more mature unit. One example is the hdmi board. The idea that there would be an hdmi upgrade ability on the current models into the future to me meant there would be smaller sections we'd be able to upgrade. Such as 11.1.8 or the 4 channel sub expansion etc. Kind of turned out to be hopefully available on the next unit. Enough of the unit needed to be swapped out to deliver on the channel counts I'm assuming. And as far as 5 subs. My needs and wants are two different things haha. I like the headroom and at this point I'd have to hall 100s of pounds of subs behind a at screen. So basically disassemble a false wall and then realign my screen and projector and anamorphic lens.. I guess your definition of modular and mine are different. There is an HDMI upgrade soon to be available on the current chassis. It comes at a cost far less than an all new processor. If you expected it to be free or lower cost, well...I won't say more. As for the other upgrades...appears they prioritized other things. My rule? Buy what's available. Never buy what might come (and that's not just an Emotiva rule...I just bought a new car...based on what it is...not what it could be.) And...they didn't discontinue support on 4K and what you have. They offer an upgrade for a reasonable (to me) upgrade. To you? Whatever... Mark I won't argue with that. This was my learning experience. It's changed my perspective on all things even in farming tech. So a cheap lesson at to learn this at least. And no I would never expect free. My RMC-1+ trade is a great value. The fact that my living room XMC-2 won't be traded in because adding dlbc to 2 collocated subs just doesn't seem like it would be worthwhile for 2k plus dirac license. So me I'm only disappointed there won't be dlbc firmware for the current XMC-2. They can take my money for the RMC-1+ now that I know the expansions are pretty much completed. However since those expansions should already be in my RMC-1 I really should be only discussing a dlbc upgrade on both which I really don't think is unreasonable to have some disappointment about. That's my fault for buying before they were officially available like you said. Sounds like I might not be able to make that mistake again at least. |
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Post by lowellg on Oct 6, 2024 16:45:52 GMT -5
Re: Default Channel Count: 9.1.6 Width channels will remain as they currently are. End of story. Same with the Left/Right Sub/Height Outputs. Re: Expansion Modules The Speaker and Subwoofer Expansion Modules are completed, waiting for Dirac Certification. One module is for Speakers, one module is for Subwoofers and each module has its own DSP Processing so will not burden the main processing board. Re: DLBC Center Sub Output plus one 4 Subwoofer Output expansion module = 5 Subwoofer Outputs. I asked Lonnie very specifically about using two Subwoofer Modules for a total of 9 subwoofers, maybe later but not now. 5 Subwoofers is the current number for the +Series. After Dirac certification, the Subwoofer Modules will be available. (I want 8 Subwoofer Outputs.) Re Power Supply The power needed to run the +Series is lower than anticipated. The 8K board is not as power hungry as originally thought. At the peak moments, the Wattage barely peaks at around 100W, and is nominally much lower, so the 200W Power Supply is way more than enough for the RMC-1+. The Output Channel board with the DACs on it is the one that gets the hottest because of the way the super duper DACs are setup. In Damon's Demo Room the processor was running the original 100W Power Supply. Re: What's Missing? The 8K HDMI board and the Power Distribution board that takes the power from the Power Supply over a single set of wires and multiplexes out to the other boards. Re: New Amp Module It's got 2 pre-drivers and 8 power devices on it (2 x 1 pre-driver + 4 power devices), heatsink is massive, and it's beautiful! It'll provide 1KW @ 2Ω! It is an Emotiva Design and was developed with the aid of Dave Goodman, formerly of Krell. He's the ONE responsible for my Krell DUO 300 XD amp sounding so dang good! He developed the XD circuit for Krell (Walter Schofield may be able to take credit for being in charge of Krell when the XD circuit was developed, but the XD circuit was all because of Dave and his nature for making things better!). Even though I just bought two more amps from Emotiva on Saturday, I'll be buying more when the new amps are available simply because Dave Goodman is involved. This amp module is fully baked, not a prototype. RMC-1+ Back Panel Note the gold devices, or objects, those little round things. I am a little confused about the current config and referring to your very first paragraph in this post. Wil this current config support 7.3.4? Also, is the bass directional as advertise by competitors? |
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Post by Lsc on Oct 6, 2024 17:02:20 GMT -5
I believe you are stuck with 3 subs max. Emotiva did not make the front wides flexible as in front wides or extra subs. This would require additional development so probably expect to see this when Dirac ART becomes available which is probably never. You’d have to get the RMC1+ that will eventually have additional sub outs to get your 4 sub outputs but who knows when that’ll happen and how reliable it would be. Hard to speculate, but given the Emotiva’s processor architecture, changes don’t seem very easy. Also they were the same DACs but the XMC2 only had the front 3 channels and the center sub channel set to “mono” mode…aka “bridged” which is supposed to improve the S/N ratio slightly. The other 12 channels had the DACs set to stereo mode so 2 channels shared a DAC. Where as the RMC1L had all 16 channels with DACs in “mono” mode. However, the rest of the circuitry was the same so even by Emotiva’s admission, the RMC1L’s value add minimal and the sound quality was essentially the same. So will the new ones have stereo or mono with the 1795s. I am pretty sure Denton and Marantz say they are stereo, just non similar channels. Like front left is shared with top right. I’m not sure why you think I would know the answer to this question. |
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Post by lowellg on Oct 6, 2024 17:07:33 GMT -5
So will the new ones have stereo or mono with the 1795s. I am pretty sure Denton and Marantz say they are stereo, just non similar channels. Like front left is shared with top right. I’m not sure why you think I would know the answer to this question. It more of I have 2 subs right now and I thought if I added the 3rd I would have to disable some other speaker set. Plus, just wondering if DLBC makes them more directional like Denon/Marantz advertises. |
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