What to look for in a sub

[ntrain42]

Jan 25, 2010 17:16:56 GMT -5 PapaJac said:

Since I'm considering Rythmik too, i come up with another question. My house has tile floor instead of carpet and the sub will be located in a corner; DOWNFIRING still a good choice?

Jan 24, 2010 9:43:06 GMT -5 ntrain42 said:

To make it short, the things I look for in a sub is a sealed DOWNFIRING design, with an EFFICIENT sub driver and a good flexible plate amp.

Keys:

A. Sealed design: Smoother and more linear bass response with a lower potential to clip/distort due to the sealed acoustic suspension.

B. Downfiring sub: When a sub is compression loaded directly into the floor it tends to flatten and extend the bass frequency lower

C. Efficiency: This is a big one. Just because a subwoofer has a big 1000watt class D amp, does not mean its going to play louder or sound better. Many of the subs on the market need big honkin amps just to move the driver due to the huge magnet structure and large voicecoil(which equates to a larger voicecoil gap)assembly. Do not be fooled by power ratings either as many times the power #'s are given at high distortion levels of 10% or greater.

D. Flexibility of the plate amp. A good subwoofer plate amp at the very least should have a VARIABLE 0-180 phase control and a VARIABLE xover control (40hz-80hz minimum). The better ones will have selectable slope( 12/24db) and even one or more bands of parametric EQ functions to eliminate room modes. The best sounding subs I have heard use a true Class A/B amps(Revel and Rythmik are 2 of them). Most sub plate amps though or the class D variety though due to cost of mfg. and size and efficiency(you can pack a larger Class D amp into a smaller space).

This should help get you started.

Downfiring will be fine with it. Some people may recommend front firing subs............for those with real small monitors with no bass extension, it may be a good idea for a front firing sealed sub so that the mating frequencies around 80hz and higher from the sub can blend more effectively.......but if your main monitors are able to play flat down to about 120hz or a bit lower I still recommend a downfiring unit with minimal localization effects from the sub.

[strindl]

Hell I got in a tiff with Strindl after I made some observations and comments based on serious physical experience with a specific speaker range.

You got in a tiff with me because of your attitude and obnoxious personality. That personality is the only thing that's real about the character you have created for the internet. Everything else you have said about your supposed background in audio is a made up fantasy. You're a fake.

[ntrain42]

Jan 25, 2010 19:01:50 GMT -5 strindl said:

Hell I got in a tiff with Strindl after I made some observations and comments based on serious physical experience with a specific speaker range.

You got in a tiff with me because of your attitude and obnoxious personality. That personality is the only thing that's real about the character you have created for the internet. Everything else you have said about your supposed background in audio is a made up fantasy. You're a fake.

OK, so you went so far as to lie about your experience with a specific product eh?

The only "fake" person here is you. Your the only person thats been caught in a fib there homie..........

[strindl]

The only "fake" person here is you. Your the only person thats been caught in a fib there homie..........

even your assertion about me there is all in your head. I am who and what I represent myself to be. You're a fake.

[selkec]

So after all this mumbo jumbo. What have we learned. lol not much. Seems everyone is arguing.
I would also like ot know what to look for.
Example...
Is sealed better for music verses ported for HT. I love bass but I just dont want boom. I want it to be able to reproduce actual bass notes and not boom.

[strindl]

I would also like ot know what to look for.
Example...
Is sealed better for music verses ported for HT. I love bass but I just dont want boom. I want it to be able to reproduce actual bass notes and not boom.

either design can give you clean accurate bass. It just has to be executed properly. All of the subs I currently have are sealed designs, although one uses a downfiring passive radiator. I wouldn't rule out a ported sub categorically though.

[ntrain42]

Jan 25, 2010 19:05:05 GMT -5 strindl said:

The only "fake" person here is you. Your the only person thats been caught in a fib there homie..........

even your assertion about me there is all in your head. I am who and what I represent myself to be. You're a fake.

Fake people are people who are caught in lies. That would make you a fake hypocrite............your real name is probably Pinocchio too. I bet you even look like him.

[ntrain42]

Jan 25, 2010 19:06:02 GMT -5 selkec said:

So after all this mumbo jumbo. What have we learned. lol not much. Seems everyone is arguing.
I would also like ot know what to look for.
Example...
Is sealed better for music verses ported for HT. I love bass but I just dont want boom. I want it to be able to reproduce actual bass notes and not boom.

You want a sealed sub. If you want real flat accurate bass look for a downfiring sub in a large sealed enclosure. Even a front loaded driver will work. Lot of choices out there fit that description.

[selkec]

I will when ready be willing to spend up to 1500 on a sub or pair if needed so I think I will have alot of options. But I think my apt would kill me with that much bass. I would like a cherry or rosenut finish also. Got to please the GF with the looks.

[ntrain42]

The thing is, just because you go with a LARGE power subwoofer, doesnt mean you have to BLAST it. All my setups run multiple subs, i do that to keep the gains low and to flatten out the freuqnecy response. Not for volume.

[woodworker]

Snodog,

I won't try to share too much technical information with you as I am far less technically savvy than many posters who have already contributed to your thread. My contribution would be to suggest that the choice of the appropriate sub is far more complex than learning the technical aspects and researching the products available on the open market (although that's a good place to start). (The worst sub purchases that I have made were on two fantastic quality subs, they just did not fit my needs.)

Buying a quality sub is only a small part of the equation- deciding which sub- well that's the hard part. Other significant factors that must be considered in your investigation include but are not limited to: your listening preferences; your other gear; room acoustics; crossover points and slopes; and sub placement.

I tried several subs in my setup before I finally found one that fit my overall "package" well. Obviously, you do want to buy a quality sub with good reviews and high expectation of reliability but in the long run it your ears, your gear, your music library and your room characteristics which will ultimately decide whether a particular sub is suitable for your needs.

I propose that if you have not already done so you begin to define your goals- particularly the "character" of sub bass that you are looking for (classical, heavy metal, home theater, jazz, well-rounded, etc.). Next, consider your other gear and how you want the sub to interact with that it. Do you want dominant sub bass or are you just looking for transparent bass reinforcement? This will help define the output requirements of the sub. Define, as best you can, what your needs are and that automatically narrows down the number of potential contenders making the job of sorting through them less complex. If you can define your needs, stay focused and and not get too caught up in the mire of technical specs and theories I think it might help you with your quest.

*Obligatory disclaimer
Please disregard these comments Snodog if I misread your question and am leading your thread astray. Also, I hope that I have offended anyone else with this post as I am not questioning anyone's technical expertise and/or commentary.

[Nemesis.ie]

For the person asking about the Epik Empire - there is another thread running where someone has just bought one.

emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=subwoofeers&action=display&thread=8844

[wowfactor]

FRIG, ENOUGH ALREADY! CLOSE THE DAMN POST..... THIS IS OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING TO HELP ANYONE!

OR SHOULD WE JUST KEEP SAYING......FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT YOU BUGGERS!

[Animo]

Jan 26, 2010 12:24:20 GMT -5 wowfactor said:

FRIG, ENOUGH ALREADY! CLOSE THE DAMN POST..... THIS IS OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING TO HELP ANYONE!

OR SHOULD WE JUST KEEP SAYING......FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT YOU BUGGERS!

Gimmee an "F"
Gimmee an "I"
Gimmee a "G"
Gimmee a.......you get the picture.

I agree, this has gotten way out of hand.
The bottom line is take into account what you want, what you like, and what will ultimately fit those criteria. Audition the subs you are considering, and decide which you like best. Techno-bable and recommendations from so called techno-geeks will only drive you in circles....

[Stevens]

OK, to answer the OP's question, here's a down-to-earth subwoofer primer:

www.svsound.com/questions-faqs.cfm#whattolookfor

[snodog]

Bingo Stevens! That is what I was asking, that too woodworker, basically just the things to look for both technically and from people personal opinions. I understand about auditioning but really not always practical as some would need to be ordered and then sent back if they didnt fit the bill. That can be expensive. Hopefully people on here can get along a bit better and just focus on the thread not each other...

[wowfactor]

Jan 26, 2010 19:41:53 GMT -5 @snodog said:

Bingo Stevens! That is what I was asking, that too woodworker, basically just the things to look for both technically and from people personal opinions. I understand about auditioning but really not always practical as some would need to be ordered and then sent back if they didnt fit the bill. That can be expensive. Hopefully people on here can get along a bit better and just focus on the thread not each other...

Well put snodog "can't we all just get along" I'm glad someone finally gave you the answer you were looking for...

3 cheers to woodworker & stevens.... ;D

[Animo]

Jan 26, 2010 17:07:42 GMT -5 Stevens said:

OK, to answer the OP's question, here's a down-to-earth subwoofer primer:

www.svsound.com/questions-faqs.cfm#whattolookfor

It may be down to earth, but I would prefer to read information from an independent respectable source. Finding something on any manufacturer's website will tend to be skewed towards their products. Not saying that the information could be wrong, just the fact that it is a biased versus an unbiased opinion. There is a poster onthe Blu-Ray forums (Big Daddy), that has created a group of threads which I personally consider an excellent resource for subwoofer information, bass management, calibration and set up. It doesn't appear that he has any personal agenda, and truly offers his knowledge as a learning tool for anyone seeking his advice. That information can be found here....... forum.blu-ray.com/subwoofers/
Just check the sticky threads started by him at the top of the page. I have learned a lot from this gentleman. It's amazing the wealth of unsolicited knowledge he has posted just for our perusal.

[mrmeng430]

Jan 26, 2010 12:15:13 GMT -5 Nemesis.ie said:

For the person asking about the Epik Empire - there is another thread running where someone has just bought one.

emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=subwoofeers&action=display&thread=8844

Thanks for the link. That person was me.

[snodog]

Thanks for that too Animo and I know what you mean about unbiased info. I know you are knowledgeable with subs too so Ill check that out too.